[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Well said again, Anthony. It's indeed the possession of both skills which is rare. We recently met a lady who had played professionally in the string section of a leading national orchestra for years, and had just retired. Name the conductor, and she'd played under them. She now left the instrument in its case, as that was part of her working life, which was now, rather gratefully, over. Playing music for pleasure - good heavens, no! She was also distinctly threatened by the notion of improvising - we were doing an informal presentation of Tudor music at the time - but in a way which said she rather wished she could, though she'd never admit it. As it was, the machinery of her hands presumably read the dots without the music ever reaching her mind. We felt sorry for her. Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no by ear leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is listening (over and over again -even if this doesn't mean actually learning by ear) then turn, once the music has been absorbed, to the dots for reference, repertoire expansion, resurrection of old manuscript tunes etc. When done this way around, each and every one of us involved in the tradition benefits and so our blessings (not condemnation!) be upon you. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 2/12/09, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 16:02 John: I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all. I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it came over that way. Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians, however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read the dots. Inverted snobbery if you ask me. Btw, when I used the term damn I was merely referring back to Sheila Bridges' contribution, in which she wrote and it seems that many who are damning the classically trained on this nsp ... Best c To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
I actually agree with all this, but I for one have received the reply no, we're trying to get away from that when I asked a well-know Irish musician if he could read music. I have also heard a well-known singer dismissing classical players with the phrase the buggers couldn't do it if it wasn't written down. These people, both of who I highly respect, can remain anonymous, as I am talking about my experience and not pointing fingers at others. Peace C __ From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:32 PM To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk; BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: From notation to music What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no by ear leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is listening (over and over again -even if this doesn't mean actually learning by ear) then turn, once the music has been absorbed, to the dots for reference, repertoire expansion, resurrection of old manuscript tunes etc. When done this way around, each and every one of us involved in the tradition benefits and so our blessings (not condemnation!) be upon you. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 2/12/09, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 16:02 John: I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all. I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it came over that way. Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians, however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read the dots. Inverted snobbery if you ask me. Btw, when I used the term damn I was merely referring back to Sheila Bridges' contribution, in which she wrote and it seems that many who are damning the classically trained on this nsp ... Best c To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Tyne Electrical Engineers
The illustration on page 13 of N/letter appears to be the bonnet badge (what size is it ?) of the former pipe-band of the Engineers, at one time in Gateshead. [I think they're in Walker now.] For the former history of the unit I would suggest that you consult the history tome [probably in Officers Mess] This looks like a 're-strike, as the original badge [and/or brooch] would have been pierced. The T.E.E. originally had one [or maybe two] highland pipers, wearing Ferguson Tartan [this being the Squadran Commanders name.] Jim Richmond Border Pipes, SSP, NSP, GHP __ Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts. [1]Find out how. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394592/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Phew, what a lot of responses. Going back to the reading and writing aspect, just being able to read what's on the page won't make anyone a good actor will it? There's something extra that makes the difference between a player who can reproduce what's written down exactly and HOW they play it. Two players, same notes, different performance. On the subject of classical players, I do feel one should take into account that, when playing in an orchestra, doing one's own thing may not be a good idea :-) A time and a place for everything. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: anth...@robbpipes.com; j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music I actually agree with all this, but I for one have received the reply no, we're trying to get away from that when I asked a well-know Irish musician if he could read music. I have also heard a well-known singer dismissing classical players with the phrase the buggers couldn't do it if it wasn't written down. These people, both of who I highly respect, can remain anonymous, as I am talking about my experience and not pointing fingers at others. Peace C __ From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:32 PM To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk; BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: From notation to music What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no by ear leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is listening (over and over again -even if this doesn't mean actually learning by ear) then turn, once the music has been absorbed, to the dots for reference, repertoire expansion, resurrection of old manuscript tunes etc. When done this way around, each and every one of us involved in the tradition benefits and so our blessings (not condemnation!) be upon you. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 2/12/09, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 16:02 John: I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all. I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it came over that way. Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians, however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read the dots. Inverted snobbery if you ask me. Btw, when I used the term damn I was merely referring back to Sheila Bridges' contribution, in which she wrote and it seems that many who are damning the classically trained on this nsp ... Best c To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Hi all As part of my practice I like to alternate between reading and playing by ear, I find I can concentrate more on my tone (when playing flute) when playing from memory, but dots are great for training my fingers ... but I did learn classical first so sightreading is a skill I want to keep up to date and fresh (having said this, I don't perform from dots, just use them to learn tunes ). Other days I like to put on a favourite tune on my ipod and try to figure out what's happening, completely different skills but just as good a work out. So, I am firmly on the fence, ear, sight and memory are all great musical work outs for me and I'd be a poorer person without them. I'm not sure it's a question of dots 'v' ear but more what you do with them... personal opinion! The only problem I find with this moving to ear world is that I can't seem to remember the names of any of the tunes! Does anyone have tips or tricks? It may be because I learn most of my new tunes from my ipod whilst driving, and I can't look at the names!!! On the pipes it's not an issue as I can only play one tune so far! Amble 2009/12/3 colin [1]cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Phew, what a lot of responses. Going back to the reading and writing aspect, just being able to read what's on the page won't make anyone a good actor will it? There's something extra that makes the difference between a player who can reproduce what's written down exactly and HOW they play it. Two players, same notes, different performance. On the subject of classical players, I do feel one should take into account that, when playing in an orchestra, doing one's own thing may not be a good idea :-) A time and a place for everything. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: [2]christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu To: [3]anth...@robbpipes.com; [4]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: [5]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music I actually agree with all this, but I for one have received the reply no, we're trying to get away from that when I asked a well-know Irish musician if he could read music. I have also heard a well-known singer dismissing classical players with the phrase the buggers couldn't do it if it wasn't written down. These people, both of who I highly respect, can remain anonymous, as I am talking about my experience and not pointing fingers at others. Peace C __ From: Anthony Robb [mailto:[6]anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:32 PM To: [7]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk; BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Cc: [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: From notation to music What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no by ear leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is
[NSP] Re: Remembering titles
A lyric fragment, sung to the tune, eg 'All the Night I Lay with Jockey in my Arms', or -failing this - a dummy lyric including the title, can help - make up your own examples, as daft ones of your own invention stick better. Remembering the first bar or 2 of the tune, with the sound of yourself announcing it out loud before you start to play it, can help too. Remembering sets of tunes in order like Morpeth Rant/Jock Wilson of Fenton/ Cheviot Rant, or Hesleyside Reel/Roxburgh Castle can peg one to another usefully. But everyone's memory works in a different way - find what works for you. Don't try to learn a whole tunebook full at once - start with 2 or 3 of your favourites. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
