[NSP] Re: Chanter Tuning
I don't know exactly how flat A = 398 is but it can't be very far off F+, given that A = 392 would correspond to concert G. I wonder if Anthony would agree therefore that since lots of the notes are sharp, a good starting point would be to pull the reed out a fraction? C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:56 PM To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Chanter Tuning From Chris Gregg: So that is why my pipes always sound out of tune, and I thought it was just poor musicianship on my part! The whole tuning thing is a bit of a quagmire, and as a solo instrument it is not a problem, but I would like to know how people get around it in recording sessions. Hello Chris This sounds to me as though your bottom G is a tad flat and that's why so many notes seem sharp. The other thing to say is that the chanter, in all likelihood, could be brought in tune with careful use of PVA glue (for sharp notes) and a scalpel fitted with an 11P blade (for flat notes). Before doing anything drastic, however, I would get to know your chanter's idiosyncrasies by removing the cotton wool plug, if there is one, from the bottom of the bore. Then I'd repeat your measurements (draw up a table) with a cotton bud inserted at set positions into the bore. I'd start off with the rounded tip in at 10mm then go up by 5mm increments to within 15mm of your bottom D (for a 7 key chanter) checking the tuning of each note as you go. Write down your results so the pattern can be seen at a glance. This will tell you how much effect the standing waves below each chanter note are affecting the pitch of each note. You might find one position will bring your chanter closer in tune with itself. If the cotton bud makes matters worse I'd insert a 20mm narrow cone of cotton wool (point first) into the chanter and see if that helps. If you do need to resort to scalpel glue I'd do this with the cotton wool cone to minimise standing waves interfering with your tuning. Let me know how you get on. With regards to recording sessions every group of pipers of pipers will have their own solution. As you say solo is fine as the piper can adjust where necessary. At the other end of the scale massed pipes are OK too because variations with 5 chanters or more tend to balance out. The trickiest we find is when 3 pipes are playing together. We found that recording the three chanters together without drones (live or recorded) works best as each of us listens out for what is happening with the other players and adjusts where necessary. Then drones are tuned to the chanters and added to the mix. This can mean up to 11.5 mins of constant drone without fingering the chanter at all which is surprisingly tiring on the fingers. It also means that chanters have to be played at a fairly consistent pitch and in with each other without any external reference point at all. But then as we can see from the recent posts external references are often a hindrance rather that a help in that situation. I hope some of this helps but please remember no theories whatsoever have been used as a basis for this advice just 40 years mucking about with some of the loveliest chanters around (Burleigh, Gruar, Hedworth, Nelson and Ross) and nowt but my own lugs as final arbiter. Good Luck Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Chanter Tuning
I don't know exactly how flat A = 398 is but it can't be very far off F+, Sorry, badly worded. I mean it can't be very far off an A that would give you F+. c given that A = 392 would correspond to concert G. I wonder if Anthony would agree therefore that since lots of the notes are sharp, a good starting point would be to pull the reed out a fraction? C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:56 PM To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Chanter Tuning From Chris Gregg: So that is why my pipes always sound out of tune, and I thought it was just poor musicianship on my part! The whole tuning thing is a bit of a quagmire, and as a solo instrument it is not a problem, but I would like to know how people get around it in recording sessions. Hello Chris This sounds to me as though your bottom G is a tad flat and that's why so many notes seem sharp. The other thing to say is that the chanter, in all likelihood, could be brought in tune with careful use of PVA glue (for sharp notes) and a scalpel fitted with an 11P blade (for flat notes). Before doing anything drastic, however, I would get to know your chanter's idiosyncrasies by removing the cotton wool plug, if there is one, from the bottom of the bore. Then I'd repeat your measurements (draw up a table) with a cotton bud inserted at set positions into the bore. I'd start off with the rounded tip in at 10mm then go up by 5mm increments to within 15mm of your bottom D (for a 7 key chanter) checking the tuning of each note as you go. Write down your results so the pattern can be seen at a glance. This will tell you how much effect the standing waves below each chanter note are affecting the pitch of each note. You might find one position will bring your chanter closer in tune with itself. If the cotton bud makes matters worse I'd insert a 20mm narrow cone of cotton wool (point first) into the chanter and see if that helps. If you do need to resort to scalpel glue I'd do this with the cotton wool cone to minimise standing waves interfering with your tuning. Let me know how you get on. With regards to recording sessions every group of pipers of pipers will have their own solution. As you say solo is fine as the piper can adjust where necessary. At the other end of the scale massed pipes are OK too because variations with 5 chanters or more tend to balance out. The trickiest we find is when 3 pipes are playing together. We found that recording the three chanters together without drones (live or recorded) works best as each of us listens out for what is happening with the other players and adjusts where necessary. Then drones are tuned to the chanters and added to the mix. This can mean up to 11.5 mins of constant drone without fingering the chanter at all which is surprisingly tiring on the fingers. It also means that chanters have to be played at a fairly consistent pitch and in with each other without any external reference point at all. But then as we can see from the recent posts external references are often a hindrance rather that a help in that situation. I hope some of this helps but please remember no theories whatsoever have been used as a basis for this advice just 40 years mucking about with some of the loveliest chanters around (Burleigh, Gruar, Hedworth, Nelson and Ross) and nowt but my own lugs as final arbiter. Good Luck Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Chanter tuning
blend their pipes failry pleasantly at A=446. Do you mean tuning your nominal G to the F you get on an equal temperament tuner if you set it to A = 446? Or do you mean tuning the nominal B to 446? These two possibilities would yield different results. (a higher nominal G in the second case). This is 8 Hz sharper than the chanter in question If you mean the first possibility, the nominal bottom G on this chanter would be somewhere around concert pitch (maybe it was intended to be. Do we know the maker, or what the customer requested. especially as the chanter has a top B which is already 25 cents flat. I'd be interested to see the results of the cotton bud plunger trials before changing anything to do with the set up. I'm sure you're correct, but it sounds as though the top B definitely needs attention. C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
