[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hi All, I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional styles, and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important to remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much more to do with Scottish country dance music, and was heavily influenced by Jimmy Shand. I admire and respect the music of the fiddlers and moothie players Anthony has cited, but see it as a separate tradition. The piping tradition is different, with a separate repertoire that shows off the pipes to their best, which, over the past couple of hundred years has developed a focus on listening/performance rather than dance. As my recent article in the NPS Magazine suggested, the piping tradition is a post-Industrial Revolution one, with its hotbed in South-East Northumberland. The style of the preferred tunes in the North of the county does not always sit well on the pipes, particularly the "Burnt Potato" tunes which a sizeable number of people now think are Northumbrian. I'm not suggesting that there weren't pipers participating in the N Northumberland scene, but it's interesting that the pedigree (I hate that term - please suggest another) of the prominent pipers in the North of the county can be traced back to Newsham. The music in the North seems to me to be a fiddle/accordeon tradition in which pipers participated rather than led. There are parallels in Ireland where uilleann pipers may join in with all sorts of reels , jigs etc in sessions, but the hard core repertoire is seen as the "big" 5-plus part piping jigs like frieze Britches and the Gold Ring. Discuss!!! Chris > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:13:14 + > To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: tim.ro...@btconnect.com > Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes > > Hi Anthony, > > Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, > so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My > purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of > piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an > incredibly rich source of knowledge. > Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical > or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and > colourful. Long may that continue. > > You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 > tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a > "thread" of thought I felt it was pertinent, and indeed the mason's decision > was perhaps food for thought. I don't think there is any wish to gloss over > the heritage, just a lack of knowledge, which is why your contribution is > so valued. > > Re "many of these pieces were still > > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > > extremely well." > > Do you feel, as you have used the past tense, that this is no longer so? Is > the (North?) "Northumbrian" style of playing lost apart from recordings? Has > it been subsumed by Tyneside influences? Which current players do you feel > best demonstrate that style? Is that style better/truer then other styles > currently in evidence? Should any style be preserved in aspic or should we > accept evolution, whilst treasuring, and being influenced by styles of the > past be they on vinyl or in mp3? > > Discuss. > > Tim > - Original Message - > From: "Anthony Robb" > To: "NSP group" ; "Richard York" > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:20 AM > Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes > > > > > > Sorry to butt in folks, especially since I'm not sure what the exact > > context is! As the subject matter is the First 30 tunes the relevance > > of Victorian / Medieval masonry escapes me. I do get the impression, > > Richard, that you might be regarding these tunes as treasures from an > > earlier age. Let me reassure you that many of these pieces were still > > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > > extremely well. It is the lack of appreciation of this and the fact > > that they played their "reels" with a phrasing that was neither march, > > polka or reel. This pulse fitted the dance step of choice, the Rant, so > > perfectly that they referred to the tunes themselves as rants. > > This was far more than a social pastime for the likes of Will Atkinson > > whose payment from "The Tanner Hops" made his, Bella's and their 10 > > bairns lives, much more bearable. It is the glossing over of this > > unique he
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hello Tim No one with respect and love of the Tradition would want to see it apreserved in aspica. Will Atkinson and Will Taylor would kindly record tunes into my basic apiano keya cassette recorder for me to learn (long before the days when I attempted to learn about the dots) and far from keeping them preserved, Iad record over the tapes with new stuff once I got the tune in my head! I canat believe I did this now, but it was just the everydayness of it all, it seemed the natural thing to do. Nor did I take a single photograph in all those years, of either them or Joe. No I donat want things preserved in aspic, neither do I want to convert everyone to what they had to offer. On the other hand Iad be heartbroken to see their musical achievements pigeon-holed as interesting but irrelevant relics. Listen to track 4 of Kathrynas aBack to the Hillsa. You will hear a perfect illustration of the difference between a march and a rant (OK the rant is called aShirleyas Reela but it is not played as a reel). This track sounds fresh and wonderful and so different to the pan-celtic rhythms on so many other CDs. Part of the problem I think is that pipers were always out-numbered by other musicians in the north of the county and the rant rhythm, in particular, is a pig to play on the pipes! That it was done is beyond dispute. This was more than just a niggle for some of the fiddlers who usually had two instruments; one in pipes, and one in concert pitch. Will Taylor told me more than once that he aHated playing his pipes fiddle a absolutely hated it a like playing something strung with knicker elastic!a Mike Nelson eventually made Joe a concert G set. Will Taylor was over the moon!! There is a photo of Joe playing this set (along with Will Taylor on fiddle) on the cover of the aNorthumberland Ranta CD. Of course things evolve and people die or move away but some very good players are still finding this style pleasing. Iave already mentioned Kathryn, less well known is Jimmy Little (piper and mouth organ player) who is up at Chathill. Jimmy owned-up recently to being one of the Teddy Boys ranting in drapes, winkle-pickers etc. spotted by Louis Killen at The Alnwick Gathering in the 50s. Perhaps most exponents are now in the south of the county, on Tyneside or even in Durham! Iam thinking of pipers like Paul Knox, and fiddllers like Stewart Hardy, Nikki Williamson and Ruth Ball. David Oliver makes a good stab at it and Alice Burn also makes successful forays into this genre, piping in rant sets under preparation for a new Windy Gyle Band CD. Quite perversely, the only rant on the Windy Gyle CD was The Rant from The Shipley Set but Mr Awkward here couldnat feel it as a rant so got the musicians to do it as a medium reel! As you say, Tim, the breadth and scope of our tradition adds to its richness. Iam simply suggesting we recognise one very special and unique facet of this amazing mix and inform others about its existence. I simply want people fully informed. That way they can decide for themselves whether the music appeals enough to be played today. As aye Anthony --- On Thu, 12/3/09, tim rolls BT wrote: From: tim rolls BT Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 9:13 AM Hi Anthony, Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an incredibly rich source of knowledge. Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and colourful. Long may that continue. You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a "thread" of thought I felt it was pertinent, and indeed the mason's decision was perhaps food for thought. I don't think there is any wish to gloss over the heritage, just a lack of knowledge, which is why your contribution is so valued. Re "many of these pieces were still > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > extremely well." Do you feel, as you have used the past tense, that this is no longer so? Is the (North?) "Northumbrian" style of playing lost apart from recordings? Has it been subsumed by Tyneside influences? Which current players do you feel best demonstrate that style? Is that style better/truer then other styles currently in evidence? Should any st
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hello Chris and all, Talking sense as usual bonny lad. You are absolutely right in that the tree trunk of the piping tradition is as you describe it but there are branches too. My reply to Tim R crossed with yours in the ether, but we are virtually saying the same thing. A couple of points though: 1. When a piper does hit the rant groove it is absolutely delicious! Clean, crisp and stunning - you've done this yourself at the Bridge of Aln sessions and they rocked! 2. There are inevitable similarities between the north Northumberland bands and those over the border especially in choice of line up, but the only band to follow the Shand type sound was Robert Whitelaw and the Danelaw Band. These were certainly popular but not the full story. Oh how I wish videos had been around as I watched Will Taylor dancing Morpeth Rant to John Daggs' Tillside Trio. It was as far removed from Scottish dance or music as any proud Northumbrian could wish As aye Anthony From: Chris Ormston Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes To: tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "NSP List" Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 11:50 AM Hi All, I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional styles, and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important to remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much more to do with Scottish country dance music, and was heavily influenced by Jimmy Shand. I admire and respect the music of the fiddlers and moothie players Anthony has cited, but see it as a separate tradition. The piping tradition is different, with a separate repertoire that shows off the pipes to their best, which, over the past couple of hundred years has developed a focus on listening/performance rather than dance. As my recent article in the NPS Magazine suggested, the piping tradition is a post-Industrial Revolution one, with its hotbed in South-East Northumberland. The style of the preferred tunes in the North of the county does not always sit well on the pipes, particularly the "Burnt Potato" tunes which a sizeable number of people now think are Northumbrian. I'm not suggesting that there weren't pipers participating in the N Northumberland scene, but it's interesting that the pedigree (I hate that term - please suggest another) of the prominent pipers in the North of the county can be traced back to Newsham. The music in the North seems to me to be a fiddle/accordeon tradition in which pipers participated rather than led. There are parallels in Ireland where uilleann pipers may join in with all sorts of reels , jigs etc in sessions, but the hard core repertoire is seen as the "big" 5-plus part piping jigs like frieze Britches and the Gold Ring. Discuss!!! Chris > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:13:14 + > To: [1]...@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: [2]tim.ro...@btconnect.com > Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes > > Hi Anthony, > > Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, > so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My > purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of > piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an > incredibly rich source of knowledge. > Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical > or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and > colourful. Long may that continue. > > You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 > tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a > "thread" of thought I felt it was pertinent, and indeed the mason's decision > was perhaps food for thought. I don't think there is any wish to gloss over > the heritage, just a lack of knowledge, which is why your contribution is > so valued. > > Re "many of these pieces were still > > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > > extremely well." > > Do you feel, as you have used the past tense, that this is no longer so? Is > the (North?) "Northumbrian" style of playing lost apart from reco
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Yes, I think Colin hit the nail on the head when he referred to people just getting on with it! Nobody taught me to play like that, I absorbed it from those around me. I couldn't really start to define exactly what I do. Talking of absorbing from those around you, my own "misty-eyed" period is the 1970s at the Sallyport where a dapper gentleman would rattle through Peacock variation sets with swagger, confidence, lyricism and rippling technique. Wonder where he is now?? ;-) Chris From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 12 March 2009 13:34 To: tim.ro...@btconnect.com; NSP List; Chris Ormston Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes Hello Chris and all, Talking sense as usual bonny lad. You are absolutely right in that the tree trunk of the piping tradition is as you describe it but there are branches too. My reply to Tim R crossed with yours in the ether, but we are virtually saying the same thing. A couple of points though: 1. When a piper does hit the rant groove it is absolutely delicious! Clean, crisp and stunning - you've done this yourself at the Bridge of Aln sessions and they rocked! 2. There are inevitable similarities between the north Northumberland bands and those over the border especially in choice of line up, but the only band to follow the Shand type sound was Robert Whitelaw and the Danelaw Band. These were certainly popular but not the full story. Oh how I wish videos had been around as I watched Will Taylor dancing Morpeth Rant to John Daggs' Tillside Trio. It was as far removed from Scottish dance or music as any proud Northumbrian could wish As aye Anthony From: Chris Ormston Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes To: tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "NSP List" Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 11:50 AM Hi All, I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional styles, and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important to remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much more to do with Scottish country dance music, and was heavily influenced by Jimmy Shand. I admire and respect the music of the fiddlers and moothie players Anthony has cited, but see it as a separate tradition. The piping tradition is different, with a separate repertoire that shows off the pipes to their best, which, over the past couple of hundred years has developed a focus on listening/performance rather than dance. As my recent article in the NPS Magazine suggested, the piping tradition is a post-Industrial Revolution one, with its hotbed in South-East Northumberland. The style of the preferred tunes in the North of the county does not always sit well on the pipes, particularly the "Burnt Potato" tunes which a sizeable number of people now think are Northumbrian. I'm not suggesting that there weren't pipers participating in the N Northumberland scene, but it's interesting that the pedigree (I hate that term - please suggest another) of the prominent pipers in the North of the county can be traced back to Newsham. The music in the North seems to me to be a fiddle/accordeon tradition in which pipers participated rather than led. There are parallels in Ireland where uilleann pipers may join in with all sorts of reels , jigs etc in sessions, but the hard core repertoire is seen as the "big" 5-plus part piping jigs like frieze Britches and the Gold Ring. Discuss!!! Chris > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:13:14 + > To: [1]...@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: [2]tim.ro...@btconnect.com > Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes > > Hi Anthony, > > Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, > so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My > purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of > piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an > incredibly rich source of knowledge. > Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical > or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and > colourful. Long may that continue. > > You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 > tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a > "thread" of thought I felt it was p
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Touche!
Stiff fingers now but I still do'em for private amusement!
Anthony
--- On Fri, 13/3/09, Chris Ormston wrote:
From: Chris Ormston
Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: "'Anthony Robb'" ,
tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "'NSP List'"
Date: Friday, 13 March, 2009, 7:52 AM
Yes, I think Colin hit the nail on the head when he referred to
people
just getting on with it! Nobody taught me to play like that, I
absorbed it from those around me. I couldn't really start to define
exactly what I do. Talking of absorbing from those around you, my
own
"misty-eyed" period is the 1970s at the Sallyport where a dapper
gentleman would rattle through Peacock variation sets with swagger,
confidence, lyricism and rippling technique. Wonder where he is
now??
;-)
Chris
From: Anthony Robb [mailto:[1]anth...@robbpipes.com]
Sent: 12 March 2009 13:34
To: [2]tim.ro...@btconnect.com; NSP List; Chris Ormston
Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hello Chris and all,
Talking sense as usual bonny lad. You are absolutely right in that
the
tree trunk of the piping tradition is as you describe it but there
are
branches too. My reply to Tim R crossed with yours in the ether, but
we
are virtually saying the same thing. A couple of points though:
1. When a piper does hit the rant groove it is absolutely
delicious!
Clean, crisp and stunning - you've done this yourself at the
Bridge
of Aln sessions and they rocked!
2. There are inevitable similarities between the north
Northumberland
bands and those over the border especially in choice of line up,
but the only band to follow the Shand type sound was Robert
Whitelaw and the Danelaw Band. These were certainly popular but
not
the full story. Oh how I wish videos had been around as I
watched
Will Taylor dancing Morpeth Rant to John Daggs' Tillside Trio.
It
was as far removed from Scottish dance or music as any proud
Northumbrian could wish
As aye
Anthony
From: Chris Ormston <[3]ch...@chrisormston.com>
Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: [4]tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "NSP List"
<[5]...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 11:50 AM
Hi All,
I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional
styles,
and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important
to
remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much
more
to
do with Scottish country dance music, and was heavily influenced
by
Jimmy Shand. I admire and respect the music of the fiddlers and
moothie
players Anthony has cited, but see it as a separate tradition.
The
piping tradition is different, with a separate repertoire that
shows
off the pipes to their best, which, over the past couple of
hundred years has developed a focus on listening/performance
rather
than dance. As my recent article in the NPS Magazine suggested,
the
piping tradition is a post-Industrial Revolution one, with its
hotbed
in South-East Northumberland. The style of the preferred tunes
in
the
North of the county does not always sit well on the pipes,
particularly
the "Burnt Potato" tunes which a sizeable number of people now
think
are Northumbrian.
I'm not suggesting that there weren't pipers participating in the
N
Northumberland scene, but it's interesting that the pedigree (I
hate
that term - please suggest another) of the prominent pipers in
the
North of the county can be traced back to Newsham. The music in
the
North seems to me to be a fiddle/accordeon tradition in which
pipers
participated rather than led.
There are parallels in Ireland where uilleann pipers may join in
with
all sorts of reels , jigs etc in sessions, but the hard core
repertoire
is seen as the "big" 5-plus part piping jigs like frieze Britches
and
the Gold Ring.
Discuss!!!
Chris
> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:13:14 +
> To: [1][6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> From: [2][7]tim.ro...@btconnect.com
> Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes
>
> Hi Anthony,
>
> Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of
Northumbrian
music,
> so I don't have the s
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hi Chris
Gave a rather flippant reply to an important question earlier. Before
answering it can I just point out that its Robert Whitehead with the
Danelaw Band, not Whitelaw as I mistakenly called him - oops, better
get it right!!!
Yes, where has that piper gone?
I would like to think to a location where the music still demands hours
of commitment, vast experience, good musicality but not the physical
dexterity demanded by such a repertoire. Getting the notes out is
challenge enough for old fingers, putting in that extra needed to keep
them flowing, rhythmic and accurate, thereby doing the tunes justice is
just a bridge too far these days. I've heard offerings in the past
couple of years which fail on some if not all of these counts (your
goodself excepted of course) and it is quite educational in terms of
making me stick to what I'm reasonably good at!
Anthony
--- On Fri, 13/3/09, Chris Ormston wrote:
From: Chris Ormston
Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: "'Anthony Robb'" ,
tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "'NSP List'"
Date: Friday, 13 March, 2009, 7:52 AM
Yes, I think Colin hit the nail on the head when he referred to
people
just getting on with it! Nobody taught me to play like that, I
absorbed it from those around me. I couldn't really start to define
exactly what I do. Talking of absorbing from those around you, my
own
"misty-eyed" period is the 1970s at the Sallyport where a dapper
gentleman would rattle through Peacock variation sets with swagger,
confidence, lyricism and rippling technique. Wonder where he is
now??
;-)
Chris
From: Anthony Robb [mailto:[1]anth...@robbpipes.com]
Sent: 12 March 2009 13:34
To: [2]tim.ro...@btconnect.com; NSP List; Chris Ormston
Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hello Chris and all,
Talking sense as usual bonny lad. You are absolutely right in that
the
tree trunk of the piping tradition is as you describe it but there
are
branches too. My reply to Tim R crossed with yours in the ether, but
we
are virtually saying the same thing. A couple of points though:
1. When a piper does hit the rant groove it is absolutely
delicious!
Clean, crisp and stunning - you've done this yourself at the
Bridge
of Aln sessions and they rocked!
2. There are inevitable similarities between the north
Northumberland
bands and those over the border especially in choice of line up,
but the only band to follow the Shand type sound was Robert
Whitelaw and the Danelaw Band. These were certainly popular but
not
the full story. Oh how I wish videos had been around as I
watched
Will Taylor dancing Morpeth Rant to John Daggs' Tillside Trio.
It
was as far removed from Scottish dance or music as any proud
Northumbrian could wish
As aye
Anthony
From: Chris Ormston <[3]ch...@chrisormston.com>
Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: [4]tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "NSP List"
<[5]...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 11:50 AM
Hi All,
I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional
styles,
and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important
to
remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much
more
to
do with Scottish country dance music, and was heavily influenced
by
Jimmy Shand. I admire and respect the music of the fiddlers and
moothie
players Anthony has cited, but see it as a separate tradition.
The
piping tradition is different, with a separate repertoire that
shows
off the pipes to their best, which, over the past couple of
hundred years has developed a focus on listening/performance
rather
than dance. As my recent article in the NPS Magazine suggested,
the
piping tradition is a post-Industrial Revolution one, with its
hotbed
in South-East Northumberland. The style of the preferred tunes
in
the
North of the county does not always sit well on the pipes,
particularly
the "Burnt Potato" tunes which a sizeable number of people now
think
are Northumbrian.
I'm not suggesting that there weren't pipers participating in the
N
Northumberland scene, but it's interesting that the pedigree (I
hate
that term - please suggest another) of the prominent pipers in
the
North of the county can be traced back to Newsham. The music in
the
North seems
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
No, it was me who was being flippant! Oh the joys of aging! Often I
rely on the hours of practice I put in as a kid to keep me going. I
find it's not the technical or physical demands of the Peacock
repertoire that are challenging (as the same musical shapes occur in
different variation sets), but remembering the order of the bloody
variations!!! In dark moments I wonder whether the good old repertoire
is valued any more, except by a few remaining diehards. It was much
easier in the days before employment, kids, German Pointers ("are you a
pointer or are you just pleased to see me?") and computers. In those
days we could just get on with playing, rather than wasting valuable
rehearsal time discussing it online, the bus fare to the Sallyport was
three farthings and you still had change for a pennorth of chips,
footballs were made of leather that got heavier when wet and the
laced-up bit hurt when you headed it...
Regarding bands, did you not mean Willie Whitelaw and his Waves of
Toryism?
Chris
__
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:18:44 -0700
From: anth...@robbpipes.com
Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: tim.ro...@btconnect.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu;
ch...@chrisormston.com
Hi Chris
Gave a rather flippant reply to an important question earlier. Before
answering it can I just point out that its Robert Whitehead with the
Danelaw Band, not Whitelaw as I mistakenly called him - oops, better
get it right!!!
Yes, where has that piper gone?
I would like to think to a location where the music still demands hours
of commitment, vast experience, good musicality but not the physical
dexterity demanded by such a repertoire. Getting the notes out is
challenge enough for old fingers, putting in that extra needed to keep
them flowing, rhythmic and accurate, thereby doing the tunes justice is
just a bridge too far these days. I've heard offerings in the past
couple of years which fail on some if not all of these counts (your
goodself excepted of course) and it is quite educational in terms of
making me stick to what I'm reasonably good at!
Anthony
--- On Fri, 13/3/09, Chris Ormston wrote:
From: Chris Ormston
Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: "'Anthony Robb'" ,
tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "'NSP List'"
Date: Friday, 13 March, 2009, 7:52 AM
Yes, I think Colin hit the nail on the head when he referred to
people
just getting on with it! Nobody taught me to play like that, I
absorbed it from those around me. I couldn't really start to define
exactly what I do. Talking of absorbing from those around you, my
own
"misty-eyed" period is the 1970s at the Sallyport where a dapper
gentleman would rattle through Peacock variation sets with swagger,
confidence, lyricism and rippling technique. Wonder where he is
now??
;-)
Chris
From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com]
Sent: 12 March 2009 13:34
To: tim.ro...@btconnect.com; NSP List; Chris Ormston
Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hello Chris and all,
Talking sense as usual bonny lad. You are absolutely right in that
the
tree trunk of the piping tradition is as you describe it but there
are
branches too. My reply to Tim R crossed with yours in the ether, but
we
are virtually saying the same thing. A couple of points though:
1. When a piper does hit the rant groove it is absolutely
delicious!
Clean, crisp and stunning - you've done this yourself at the
Bridge
of Aln sessions and they rocked!
2. There are inevitable similarities between the north
Northumberland
bands and those over the border especially in choice of line up,
but the only band to follow the Shand type sound was Robert
Whitelaw and the Danelaw Band. These were certainly popular but
not
the full story. Oh how I wish videos had been around as I
watched
Will Taylor dancing Morpeth Rant to John Daggs' Tillside Trio.
It
was as far removed from Scottish dance or music as any proud
Northumbrian could wish
As aye
Anthony
From: Chris Ormston
Subject: [NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
To: tim.ro...@btconnect.com, "NSP List"
Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 11:50 AM
Hi All,
I agree with Anthony on the importance of recognising regional
styles,
and that dance and music go hand in hand. I think it's important
to
remember, though, that the North Northumberland style is much
mor
[NSP] Re: Moving away from the First 30 tunes
Hello Tim If you (or anyone else is interested) I have a recording of the closing set at a Rothbury Festival Sunday afternoon session. It is an enjoyable set, 15+ mins of spontaneous music making, quite lively and some good rants in amongst! Recorded on cassette, so not brilliant quality but listenable. I'd be happy to burn this to CD and post it to interested parties on receipt of their addresses. The musicians include Alistair Anderson, Will Atkinson, Joe Hutton, Will Taylor, Greg Smith, Chris Wood, Me, Jamie Robb (my eldest - and if any one calls him Jimmy I'll withdraw my offer!! :-) ) and about 30 others from around these islands. As aye Anthony --- On Thu, 12/3/09, tim rolls BT wrote: From: tim rolls BT Subject: [NSP] Moving away from the First 30 tunes To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 9:13 AM Hi Anthony, Obviously I don't have your knowledge and background of Northumbrian music, so I don't have the same depth of feeling for these matters that you do. My purpose in following the threads on this group is to get an understanding of piping as it is, and was, from experienced people like you, and this is an incredibly rich source of knowledge. Because there is such a diverse range of opinions, often based on historical or geographical connections, often deeply held, the picture is rich and colourful. Long may that continue. You are perhaps correct that the direct relevance of masonry to the first 30 tunes is had to see, and maybe a new title was appropriate, but as a "thread" of thought I felt it was pertinent, and indeed the mason's decision was perhaps food for thought. I don't think there is any wish to gloss over the heritage, just a lack of knowledge, which is why your contribution is so valued. Re "many of these pieces were still > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > extremely well." Do you feel, as you have used the past tense, that this is no longer so? Is the (North?) "Northumbrian" style of playing lost apart from recordings? Has it been subsumed by Tyneside influences? Which current players do you feel best demonstrate that style? Is that style better/truer then other styles currently in evidence? Should any style be preserved in aspic or should we accept evolution, whilst treasuring, and being influenced by styles of the past be they on vinyl or in mp3? Discuss. Tim - Original Message - From: "Anthony Robb" <[1]anth...@robbpipes.com> To: "NSP group" <[2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Richard York" <[3]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:20 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes > > Sorry to butt in folks, especially since I'm not sure what the exact > context is! As the subject matter is the First 30 tunes the relevance > of Victorian / Medieval masonry escapes me. I do get the impression, > Richard, that you might be regarding these tunes as treasures from an > earlier age. Let me reassure you that many of these pieces were still > being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north > Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs > extremely well. It is the lack of appreciation of this and the fact > that they played their "reels" with a phrasing that was neither march, > polka or reel. This pulse fitted the dance step of choice, the Rant, so > perfectly that they referred to the tunes themselves as rants. > This was far more than a social pastime for the likes of Will Atkinson > whose payment from "The Tanner Hops" made his, Bella's and their 10 > bairns lives, much more bearable. It is the glossing over of this > unique heritage that drives me to bring it to a wider audience. If you > haven't already done so buy Will Atkinson's wonderful CD and you'll see > what I mean. > Regards > Anthony > > > > --- On Wed, 11/3/09, Richard York <[4]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> wrote: > > From: Richard York <[5]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> > Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes > To: "NSP group" <[6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009, 8:48 PM > > In a way, that's the least important part of the story :) > It struck me at the time what a parallel it was with our treatment of > music which comes to us from before our time, or at least before deadly > accurate sound recording, whether it's medieval or anything else. > But to answer your question, Tim, if I remember aright, he treated > them each variously according to how much was evident from the original > form, how much damage the dear Victorians
