[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
I got quite a surprise last time I recorded myself playing - it was far too fast for my liking Related anecdote: Once while setting up for a gig, music playing in the background included a very fast and flashy version of Orange Blossom Special (not on the pipes!). When I asked who was playing, I was told you. Hmmm... The instant recognisability of the true master! ;-) czírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Or just too busy making music? I'm involved in a project with Jimmy Little at the moment. He was one of the ranting Teddy Boys spied by Louis Killen at Alnwick in the late 50s and learnt pipes from his father and grandfather in an isolated farmhouse on Alnwick Moor. None of them read dots. He came up with a goodun last week when he said a lot of people now rely on dots too much and the tunes comes out as flat as the sheet they are reading it from. Got me thinking, surely style is secondary to life/bounce in the music? As aye Anthony --- On Mon, 8/6/09, colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk wrote: From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 8 June, 2009, 8:46 PM That's the last one I got as well. The new member's list appears just as quiet as well. Perhaps we've all run out of tubs to thump :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dave S [1]david...@pt.lu To: [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00 -- References 1. http://uk.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=david...@pt.lu 2. http://uk.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Anthony I wholeheartedly agree with you, and count myself extremely fortunate to be able to play with Jimmy on a regular basis. Besides holding hundreds of tunes in his mental database, he has this amazing bounce in his playing, and he's also brilliant at keeping time with a very secure foot tap which has been an enormous boon to Alnwick Pipers' Society (assuming his foot is in one's line of sight of course!) However, as I've said to Jimmy several times, some of us 'late starters' just haven't got the time (in terms of the number of years still available to us) to learn all the tunes that we want to learn by ear so have to resort to using music at least at the start, but then I accept that the ideal is, of course, to commit them to memory as soon as possible when one can really start to play with feeling. Problems arise when performing those same tunes with a different group of people and then some sort of (preferably unwritten) consensus on how they are played is needed. This I guess comes from years of playing with others, and just as importantly, listening! Jimmy will say that learning tunes by ear isn't difficult, but he has had in excess of 60 years to hone the skill and has been fortunate enough to learn many of them from the 'late and greats'. I'm sure that most of the people on this list are 'old hands' but, to anyone starting out, as it were, I would say from my own experience, that the first few tunes were very definitely a huge obstacle and much patience, perserverance and practice were required to overcome this hurdle, but then the joy of actually playing them confidently without the music for the first time was immeasurable! And it does get (slightly) easier as time goes on! I do feel very strongly that we should all seize any and every opportunity to listen and learn from musicians like Jimmy Little, and others of the same ilk. Di Jevons - Original Message - From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now Or just too busy making music? I'm involved in a project with Jimmy Little at the moment. He was one of the ranting Teddy Boys spied by Louis Killen at Alnwick in the late 50s and learnt pipes from his father and grandfather in an isolated farmhouse on Alnwick Moor. None of them read dots. He came up with a goodun last week when he said a lot of people now rely on dots too much and the tunes comes out as flat as the sheet they are reading it from. Got me thinking, surely style is secondary to life/bounce in the music? As aye Anthony --- On Mon, 8/6/09, colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk wrote: From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 8 June, 2009, 8:46 PM That's the last one I got as well. The new member's list appears just as quiet as well. Perhaps we've all run out of tubs to thump :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dave S [1]david...@pt.lu To: [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00 -- References 1. http://uk.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=david...@pt.lu 2. http://uk.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.56/2162 - Release Date: 06/08/09 06:01:00
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
If anyone would like to learn some tunes linked to North Northumberland, Andy and I are running four workshops and linked concerts over the summer months in various venues along the Northumberland coast. Learn the tunes in the workshop and join in playing them in the evening concert if you feel brave enough! We'll be including some tunes from old fiddle sources (William Dobson of Thirston; William Darling of Bamburgh and the Farnes; John Readshaw of Alston). The workshops are for concert pitch (or as near as you can get!) instruments so G pipes are welcome. Contact us offlist at i...@pipesandfiddle.co.uk for details. We'll be learning by ear, but will also have the 'dots' to take away - how's that for a compromise? Margaret To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
I am pleased to read about the respect given to Jimmy Little up at Alnwick. The group of pipers at Morpeth who mostly play from music and sound as 'flat as the paper the music is printed on' are not interested in any input from people like myself. They seem to be more concerned about all starting together and playing at a speed the slowest can manage which is nothing to do with 'life and bounce' in the music. Style comes second or maybe as a result of getting life into the music. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Dear All Surely one of the main aims of all the various piping groups to which we belong must be to encourage new players and I therefore think there always has to be 'give and take' where there is a 'mixed experience' group of players. One does not want to discourage the less experienced who perhaps know few tunes from memory and maybe struggle to read music but at the same time those who have been playing for a long time and know the majority of the repertoire from memory want to be challenged, so I believe one has to cater for both extremes during an 'open' session (and an awful lot of people who are 'in the middle', as it were.) I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' and whilst I am firmly of the opinion that one does not progress if one does not leave one's 'comfort zone' from time to time, I do not see that there is a lot to be gained by playing lots of tunes in succession at a speed at which no-one in the room (or very few) can actually manage. From a listening point of view, I would rather hear a tune played at a slightly slower pace and with more style and feeling, rather than sounding 'out of control'. I think the watchword, as ever, is COMPROMISE!!! Di - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: anth...@robbpipes.com Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:31 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now I am pleased to read about the respect given to Jimmy Little up at Alnwick. The group of pipers at Morpeth who mostly play from music and sound as 'flat as the paper the music is printed on' are not interested in any input from people like myself. They seem to be more concerned about all starting together and playing at a speed the slowest can manage which is nothing to do with 'life and bounce' in the music. Style comes second or maybe as a result of getting life into the music. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.59/2165 - Release Date: 06/09/09 05:53:00
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
-Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Di Jevons I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' and whilst I am firmly of the opinion that one does not progress if one does not leave one's 'comfort zone' from time to time, I do not see that there is a lot to be gained by playing lots of tunes in succession at a speed at which no-one in the room (or very few) can actually manage. From a listening point of view, I would rather hear a tune played at a slightly slower pace and with more style and feeling, rather than sounding 'out of control'. Oh dear! I think you are showing a total failure to appreciate 95% of all piping recordings, the purpose of which is to bash the listener into submission, with the expressed emotion being I'll bet YOU can't play this fast, you wimp!!! Cheers, Paul Gretton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
On 6/9/09, Di Jevons d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
From another tradition - some of the best Irish fiddlers, especially from Clare, play what at first seems painfully slow, then you realise the wonderful things they are doing between the melody notes. A lot of players (eg in Kerry) play far quicker for dancing than is musically satisfying - if the dancers stop, everyone slows down quite significantly to something musical again. The best Irish pipers sound so relaxed when playing that it feels slow, even when it isn't. Relaxation in playing music is central to the enjoyment of it - never play faster than you can think. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 09 June 2009 14:14 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now On 6/9/09, Di Jevons d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these target speeds here to my lack of nsp experience skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1]d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Hello Richard, A distinction should be made between playing for dances and playing for pleasure. Dancers need the music to be quite fast otherwise they feel clumsy and uncoordinated; to move along and feel light on their feet they need speed - which the player has to provide. When the piper is simply playing for his/her own pleasure then the music can take over and set its own tempo. Cheers, Richard S. Richard York wrote: I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these target speeds here to my lack of nsp experience skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1]d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
The Peacock tunes should be played at a speed such that the shortest note passages (usually the semiquaver figures) can be played well - accurately, comfortably, and with a sense of phrasing. Too slow, you can lose the sense of the underlying harmonic rhythm, but too fast, and you get a heap of semiquavers all over the floor. Even if that doesn't happen, the effect can be unmusical. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: 09 June 2009 17:36 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these target speeds here to my lack of nsp experience skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1]d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
That's the last one I got as well. The new member's list appears just as quiet as well. Perhaps we've all run out of tubs to thump :-) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dave S david...@pt.lu To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: this list is safer now Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00
