Re: [NTG-context] OT: Reflections on usability ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics

[Fabrice Couvreur]

Hi Martin,
Sorry, but I do not find fonts cambria and cambria math to install with
Debian.
thank you,
Fabrice


2014-02-11 14:18 GMT+01:00 Mikael P. Sundqvist :

> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Keith J. Schultz 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 11.02.2014 um 09:57 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist :
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/10/2014 9:24 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I used ConTeXt (mkii) to write my PhD thesis in Mathematics in 2008. It
 worked just fine.

 At the moment I write some exams and hand-outs using ConTeXt, but
 research using LaTeX (since the journals do not really accept ConTeXt
 and my collaborators dont know ConTeXt).

 It certainly works OK to write math in ConTeXt, but I have a feeling
 that there are some things that are somewhat broken or not finetuned to
 output what mathematicians expect. Look at the attached pdf files [1]
 l.pdf (from LaTeX) and c.pdf (from latest standalone ConTeXt), with
 source l.tex and c.tex for some examples.

>>>
>>> In mkiv we follow some alternative approaches compared to mkii (and
>>> probably other tex macro packages) and some aspects indeed might need
>>> tuning (or more configuration options) .. I try hard to get away from
>>> hackery solutions (for several reasons).
>>>
>>
>> I agree it is good to avoid hackery as long as possible, and I for sure
>> is ready to relearn how to write some things. With the examples I gave in
>> the previous email in mind:
>>
>>  * How am I supposed to write first derivative (f') and second derivative
>> (f'') in such a way that they have the same type of prime (the prime in the
>> first derivative is the one I prefer)?
>>
>> No sure if to call this a bug! It seems that a single prime is always
>> larger than multiple ones!
>> You can always change its size!
>>
>
> I think the user should not have to change its size. All primes should
> have the same size, independent if they are one or several.
>
>
>>
>> * How am I supposed to write f_xx'' to get the output as in the LaTeX
>> example (i.e. so that the primes are over the xx)?
>>
>> have to switch things around: f''_xx or f''_{xx}  depending on the actual
>> result you want.
>>
>
> I know about the grouping. Please have a look at my example files in my
> earlier post in this thread.
>
>
>>
>>
>> * Could the default placement of limits in integrals be changed
>> (integral=nolimits)? This is how it is done in almost all math books).
>>
>>  Not sure what you want here! example? can be LateX
>>
>
> As above, I gave examples...
>
> Best regards, Mikael
>
>
>>
>> * What about the size and finetuning of placement of indices in integrals
>> and sums (and probably products, unions, ...)?
>> * I remember I suggested that \| should be double bars in a previous
>> thread on this list. Is there any drawback in giving double bars for \|? Of
>> course I can relearn and use \lVert and \rVert, but I have a feeling that
>> if we want people moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt, then this is the kind of
>> things that should just work as expected...
>>
>> Best regards, Mikael
>>
>>
>> regards
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: [NTG-context] Linespacing in TOC

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/11/2014 5:32 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:


My fundamental question is why ToC has different ToC line gaps than body
text. I still think it is rather a bug which we are trying to work around
all the time...


See Wolfgangs mail. Don't confuse line spacing with explicit spacing 
(before and after things).


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Linespacing in TOC

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 11.02.2014 um 17:32 schrieb Jan Tosovsky :

> My fundamental question is why ToC has different ToC line gaps than body
> text. I still think it is rather a bug which we are trying to work around
> all the time…

The chapter entries insert a empty line before their content, you can disable 
this with

  \setuplist[chapter][before=]

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Re: [NTG-context] Linespacing in TOC

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2014-02-10 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> Am 10.02.2014 um 22:49 schrieb Jan Tosovsky :
> 
> > I still prefer placing lines on the grid. But if the grid could be
> switched
> > off just for ToC, I could use the above code ensuring lines in the
> 'grid'
> > positions. It is fake, but I cannot manage even that
> (startlinecorrection
> > doesn't work here).
> >
> > Any idea?
> 
> When you have characters with big ascenders/descenders you have to
> increase
> the interlinespace or change the height/depth ration of a strut.
> 
> 1. Change the interlinespace value with
> 
>   \setupinterlinespace[line=14pt]
> 
> 2. Change the height/depth ration with
> 
>   \setupinterlinespace[height=0.8,depth=0.2] % default:
> height=0.72,depth=0.28

Thanks, but neither solution works for me.

My fundamental question is why ToC has different ToC line gaps than body
text. I still think it is rather a bug which we are trying to work around
all the time...

Jan

\setuplayout[grid=yes]
\showgrid

\starttext
\setupinterlinespace[height=0.8, depth=0.2]
\placecontent  % there are blank lines between ToC lines

\chapter{}

\input{tufte}  % this is good
\chapter{}
\chapter{}
\stoptext

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Re: [NTG-context] getting text outside cropmarks to work

[Lars Huttar]

On 2/7/2014 10:21 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 07.02.2014 um 16:17 schrieb Lars Huttar :
>
>> This works for one page, but when I increase the length of the text to
>> take multiple pages, the top and bottom text only appears on the first
>> page. (Again, using ConTeXt version 2013.05.28 00:36 from the TeX Live CD.)
>> How do you make layers, or backgrounds, appear on every page?
>
> Add “state=repeat” to \definelayer:
>
>   \definelayer[cropmark][state=repeat,width=\paperwidth,height=\paperheight]
>

It works for me. Thanks again!

Lars

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Re: [NTG-context] OT: Reflections on usability ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

>
> Am 11.02.2014 um 09:57 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist :
>
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2014 9:24 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I used ConTeXt (mkii) to write my PhD thesis in Mathematics in 2008. It
>>> worked just fine.
>>>
>>> At the moment I write some exams and hand-outs using ConTeXt, but
>>> research using LaTeX (since the journals do not really accept ConTeXt
>>> and my collaborators dont know ConTeXt).
>>>
>>> It certainly works OK to write math in ConTeXt, but I have a feeling
>>> that there are some things that are somewhat broken or not finetuned to
>>> output what mathematicians expect. Look at the attached pdf files [1]
>>> l.pdf (from LaTeX) and c.pdf (from latest standalone ConTeXt), with
>>> source l.tex and c.tex for some examples.
>>>
>>
>> In mkiv we follow some alternative approaches compared to mkii (and
>> probably other tex macro packages) and some aspects indeed might need
>> tuning (or more configuration options) .. I try hard to get away from
>> hackery solutions (for several reasons).
>>
>
> I agree it is good to avoid hackery as long as possible, and I for sure is
> ready to relearn how to write some things. With the examples I gave in the
> previous email in mind:
>
> * How am I supposed to write first derivative (f') and second derivative
> (f'') in such a way that they have the same type of prime (the prime in the
> first derivative is the one I prefer)?
>
> No sure if to call this a bug! It seems that a single prime is always
> larger than multiple ones!
> You can always change its size!
>

I think the user should not have to change its size. All primes should have
the same size, independent if they are one or several.


>
> * How am I supposed to write f_xx'' to get the output as in the LaTeX
> example (i.e. so that the primes are over the xx)?
>
> have to switch things around: f''_xx or f''_{xx}  depending on the actual
> result you want.
>

I know about the grouping. Please have a look at my example files in my
earlier post in this thread.


>
>
> * Could the default placement of limits in integrals be changed
> (integral=nolimits)? This is how it is done in almost all math books).
>
> Not sure what you want here! example? can be LateX
>

As above, I gave examples...

Best regards, Mikael


>
> * What about the size and finetuning of placement of indices in integrals
> and sums (and probably products, unions, ...)?
> * I remember I suggested that \| should be double bars in a previous
> thread on this list. Is there any drawback in giving double bars for \|? Of
> course I can relearn and use \lVert and \rVert, but I have a feeling that
> if we want people moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt, then this is the kind of
> things that should just work as expected...
>
> Best regards, Mikael
>
>
> regards
> Keith
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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>
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>
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Re: [NTG-context] OT: Reflections on usability ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics

[Keith J. Schultz]

Am 11.02.2014 um 09:57 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist :

> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> On 2/10/2014 9:24 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I used ConTeXt (mkii) to write my PhD thesis in Mathematics in 2008. It
> worked just fine.
> 
> At the moment I write some exams and hand-outs using ConTeXt, but
> research using LaTeX (since the journals do not really accept ConTeXt
> and my collaborators dont know ConTeXt).
> 
> It certainly works OK to write math in ConTeXt, but I have a feeling
> that there are some things that are somewhat broken or not finetuned to
> output what mathematicians expect. Look at the attached pdf files [1]
> l.pdf (from LaTeX) and c.pdf (from latest standalone ConTeXt), with
> source l.tex and c.tex for some examples.
> 
> In mkiv we follow some alternative approaches compared to mkii (and probably 
> other tex macro packages) and some aspects indeed might need tuning (or more 
> configuration options) .. I try hard to get away from hackery solutions (for 
> several reasons).
> 
> I agree it is good to avoid hackery as long as possible, and I for sure is 
> ready to relearn how to write some things. With the examples I gave in the 
> previous email in mind:
> 
> * How am I supposed to write first derivative (f') and second derivative 
> (f'') in such a way that they have the same type of prime (the prime in the 
> first derivative is the one I prefer)?
No sure if to call this a bug! It seems that a single prime is always 
larger than multiple ones!
You can always change its size!

> * How am I supposed to write f_xx'' to get the output as in the LaTeX example 
> (i.e. so that the primes are over the xx)?
have to switch things around: f''_xx or f''_{xx}  depending on the 
actual result you want.
 
> * Could the default placement of limits in integrals be changed 
> (integral=nolimits)? This is how it is done in almost all math books).
Not sure what you want here! example? can be LateX
> * What about the size and finetuning of placement of indices in integrals and 
> sums (and probably products, unions, ...)?
> * I remember I suggested that \| should be double bars in a previous thread 
> on this list. Is there any drawback in giving double bars for \|? Of course I 
> can relearn and use \lVert and \rVert, but I have a feeling that if we want 
> people moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt, then this is the kind of things that 
> should just work as expected...
> 
> Best regards, Mikael

regards
Keith___
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Re: [NTG-context] OT: Reflections on usability ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics

[Martin Schröder]

2014-02-11 10:18 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Couvreur :
> Unless I am mistaken, Cambria is a font available for Windows. I'm using
> Linux, is it possible to install ? Is it free ? If yes, where can I download
> it ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambria_(typeface)#Availability

> Xits, I do not know.

It's on CTAN and included in TeXLive.

Best
   Martin
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Re: [NTG-context] OT: Reflections on usability ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics

[Fabrice Couvreur]

Hi,
Unless I am mistaken, Cambria is a font available for Windows. I'm using
Linux, is it possible to install ? Is it free ? If yes, where can I download
it ?

Xits, I do not know.

Is it possible to put the "uppercase = right"  in math mode with Pagella ?
thank you,
Fabrice


2014-02-11 9:57 GMT+01:00 Mikael P. Sundqvist :

> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2014 9:24 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I used ConTeXt (mkii) to write my PhD thesis in Mathematics in 2008. It
>>> worked just fine.
>>>
>>> At the moment I write some exams and hand-outs using ConTeXt, but
>>> research using LaTeX (since the journals do not really accept ConTeXt
>>> and my collaborators dont know ConTeXt).
>>>
>>> It certainly works OK to write math in ConTeXt, but I have a feeling
>>> that there are some things that are somewhat broken or not finetuned to
>>> output what mathematicians expect. Look at the attached pdf files [1]
>>> l.pdf (from LaTeX) and c.pdf (from latest standalone ConTeXt), with
>>> source l.tex and c.tex for some examples.
>>>
>>
>> In mkiv we follow some alternative approaches compared to mkii (and
>> probably other tex macro packages) and some aspects indeed might need
>> tuning (or more configuration options) .. I try hard to get away from
>> hackery solutions (for several reasons).
>>
>
> I agree it is good to avoid hackery as long as possible, and I for sure is
> ready to relearn how to write some things. With the examples I gave in the
> previous email in mind:
>
> * How am I supposed to write first derivative (f') and second derivative
> (f'') in such a way that they have the same type of prime (the prime in the
> first derivative is the one I prefer)?
> * How am I supposed to write f_xx'' to get the output as in the LaTeX
> example (i.e. so that the primes are over the xx)?
> * Could the default placement of limits in integrals be changed
> (integral=nolimits)? This is how it is done in almost all math books).
> * What about the size and finetuning of placement of indices in integrals
> and sums (and probably products, unions, ...)?
> * I remember I suggested that \| should be double bars in a previous
> thread on this list. Is there any drawback in giving double bars for \|? Of
> course I can relearn and use \lVert and \rVert, but I have a feeling that
> if we want people moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt, then this is the kind of
> things that should just work as expected...
>
> Best regards, Mikael
>
>
>
>>
>>  When it comes to math environments, I think that thanks to the
>>> environments in http://dl.contextgarden.net/myway/mathalign.pdf
>>>  we are OK. I
>>>
>>> sometimes miss the multline(d) environment from LaTeX.
>>>
>>> Best regards, Mikael
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> The attachments were too big, so I decided to put the pdf files on
>>> http://www.maths.lth.se/~mickep/l.pdf
>>> and
>>> http://www.maths.lth.se/~mickep/c.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello ConTeXist.
>>> I am very sorry for this OFF TOPIC contribution.
>>>
>>> For writing of this text led me several hours of searching on
>>> internet. I was looking for ways to typing of non-elementary math in
>>> ConTeXt
>>>
>>> Already a long time I use ConTeXt typesetting lot of different
>>> things and I am very satisfied. In the many things, of which I
>>> typed, was maths represented only marginally and minimally. Now I
>>> need to type some mathematics (at secondary school level) and I
>>> found that I came across borders of my knowledge of ConTeXt, or on
>>> possibilities of ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics.
>>> I do not in any way call into question the ability of ConTeXt
>>> typesetting mathematics, although I think that who wants to type
>>> mathematics then use LaTeX.
>>> I want find experience of users of ConTeXt for real using of ConTeXt
>>> for typesetting of mathematics. I wonder how users use possible math
>>> modules (exist anything?) to be usable results.
>>>
>>> I have a few questions:
>>>
>>> 0. Do you think that this is only a problem for beginners of ConText
>>> or it is a general problem of ConTeXt?
>>> 1. How many of ConTeXt users use this tool for typesetting of
>>> non-elementary mathematics?
>>> 2. Are you satisfied with the results, which produces ConTeXt
>>> (thinking in the field of mathematics rate)?
>>> 3. What things do you need to have in ConTeXt study that one could
>>> bet mathematics at a reasonable level?
>>> 4. Is ConTeXt able to substitute LaTeX to typesetting of math (e.g.
>>> in the future)?
>>> 5. Can you think of any more questions that should be here?
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope that my question will help other beginners who would like to
>>> typing of mathematics use ConText - this unique and useful tool.
>>>
>>

Re: [NTG-context] OT: Reflections on usability ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:

> On 2/10/2014 9:24 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I used ConTeXt (mkii) to write my PhD thesis in Mathematics in 2008. It
>> worked just fine.
>>
>> At the moment I write some exams and hand-outs using ConTeXt, but
>> research using LaTeX (since the journals do not really accept ConTeXt
>> and my collaborators dont know ConTeXt).
>>
>> It certainly works OK to write math in ConTeXt, but I have a feeling
>> that there are some things that are somewhat broken or not finetuned to
>> output what mathematicians expect. Look at the attached pdf files [1]
>> l.pdf (from LaTeX) and c.pdf (from latest standalone ConTeXt), with
>> source l.tex and c.tex for some examples.
>>
>
> In mkiv we follow some alternative approaches compared to mkii (and
> probably other tex macro packages) and some aspects indeed might need
> tuning (or more configuration options) .. I try hard to get away from
> hackery solutions (for several reasons).
>

I agree it is good to avoid hackery as long as possible, and I for sure is
ready to relearn how to write some things. With the examples I gave in the
previous email in mind:

* How am I supposed to write first derivative (f') and second derivative
(f'') in such a way that they have the same type of prime (the prime in the
first derivative is the one I prefer)?
* How am I supposed to write f_xx'' to get the output as in the LaTeX
example (i.e. so that the primes are over the xx)?
* Could the default placement of limits in integrals be changed
(integral=nolimits)? This is how it is done in almost all math books).
* What about the size and finetuning of placement of indices in integrals
and sums (and probably products, unions, ...)?
* I remember I suggested that \| should be double bars in a previous thread
on this list. Is there any drawback in giving double bars for \|? Of course
I can relearn and use \lVert and \rVert, but I have a feeling that if we
want people moving from LaTeX to ConTeXt, then this is the kind of things
that should just work as expected...

Best regards, Mikael



>
>  When it comes to math environments, I think that thanks to the
>> environments in http://dl.contextgarden.net/myway/mathalign.pdf
>>  we are OK. I
>>
>> sometimes miss the multline(d) environment from LaTeX.
>>
>> Best regards, Mikael
>>
>> [1]
>> The attachments were too big, so I decided to put the pdf files on
>> http://www.maths.lth.se/~mickep/l.pdf
>> and
>> http://www.maths.lth.se/~mickep/c.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar > > wrote:
>>
>> Hello ConTeXist.
>> I am very sorry for this OFF TOPIC contribution.
>>
>> For writing of this text led me several hours of searching on
>> internet. I was looking for ways to typing of non-elementary math in
>> ConTeXt
>>
>> Already a long time I use ConTeXt typesetting lot of different
>> things and I am very satisfied. In the many things, of which I
>> typed, was maths represented only marginally and minimally. Now I
>> need to type some mathematics (at secondary school level) and I
>> found that I came across borders of my knowledge of ConTeXt, or on
>> possibilities of ConTeXt for typesetting of mathematics.
>> I do not in any way call into question the ability of ConTeXt
>> typesetting mathematics, although I think that who wants to type
>> mathematics then use LaTeX.
>> I want find experience of users of ConTeXt for real using of ConTeXt
>> for typesetting of mathematics. I wonder how users use possible math
>> modules (exist anything?) to be usable results.
>>
>> I have a few questions:
>>
>> 0. Do you think that this is only a problem for beginners of ConText
>> or it is a general problem of ConTeXt?
>> 1. How many of ConTeXt users use this tool for typesetting of
>> non-elementary mathematics?
>> 2. Are you satisfied with the results, which produces ConTeXt
>> (thinking in the field of mathematics rate)?
>> 3. What things do you need to have in ConTeXt study that one could
>> bet mathematics at a reasonable level?
>> 4. Is ConTeXt able to substitute LaTeX to typesetting of math (e.g.
>> in the future)?
>> 5. Can you think of any more questions that should be here?
>>
>>
>> I hope that my question will help other beginners who would like to
>> typing of mathematics use ConText - this unique and useful tool.
>>
>> Thanks for all the answers.
>>
>> Jaroslav Hajtmar
>>
>>
>> 
>> ___
>>
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl  /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/__listinfo/ntg-context
>>
>> 
>>