Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-06 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 4/6/2016 9:03 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:


the other things ... well, they are up to the macro package


Indeed, you most likely figured the problem. They are mentioning luatex, while 
those features require ConTeXt 'preprocessing'.


i didn't read that document but i assume it refers to latex which for 
sure will have some way to set up these feaures; i don't know about 
plain support


in context protrusion and expansion is supported in mkii (pdftex) and 
mkiv (luatex) .. in mkiv there is a bit more control


there is no preprocessing involved (these two features are just part of 
the par builder)


extra kerning and so is done by manipulating node lists (so not an 
engine feature but a context one)



i don't think that there are typographical advantages of using pdftex
over luatex (at least not with context)


Great, thanks! I am updating article with comparision of various engines, I'll 
reflect it.

Jan

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Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-06 Thread Jan Tosovsky 
On 2016-04-06 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/5/2016 11:51 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > On 2016-04-05 Hans Hagen wrote:
> >> On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >>>
> >>> according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-
> >>> dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
> >>> pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
> >>> (1) Character protrusion
> >>> (2) Font expansion
> >>> (3) Tracking
> >>> (4) Additional kerning
> >>> (5) Interword spacing
> >>>
> >>> AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?) ...
> >>> Are there any plans to cover the rest?
> >>
> > My concern was based on this introduction (on title page), especially
> > on that sentence marked with asterisks:
> >
> > 
> > ... the adjustment of interword spacing
> > and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).
> > *
> 
> protrusion and expansion are supported at the luatex engine level but
> configuration is up to the macro packages and they can follow different
> approaches
> 
> the other things ... well, they are up to the macro package

Indeed, you most likely figured the problem. They are mentioning luatex, while 
those features require ConTeXt 'preprocessing'.
 
> i don't think that there are typographical advantages of using pdftex
> over luatex (at least not with context)

Great, thanks! I am updating article with comparision of various engines, I'll 
reflect it.

Jan

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Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-06 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 4/6/2016 6:48 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 2016-04-06 um 03:51 schrieb Jan Tosovsky :



Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), 
LuaTeX, or
XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 
for
automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion 
and
expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires 
pdfTeX
(≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX,


while the adjustment of interword spacing
and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).

*

Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).



Looks like it’s not about interword spacing and kerning in itself, but their 
*adjustment*.

I didn’t look into that docs, but I’d assume, tracking refers to some logging 
or visualization of spacing.
AFAIR ConTeXt can do that very nicely (while I never used it and don’t know how 
to enable it).


\starttext
\start
\showfontkerns \showmakeup[glue]
\input tufte \par
\stop
\stoptext



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Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-06 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 4/5/2016 11:51 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:

On 2016-04-05 Hans Hagen wrote:

On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:


according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-
dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
(1) Character protrusion
(2) Font expansion
(3) Tracking
(4) Additional kerning
(5) Interword spacing

AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?) ...
Are there any plans to cover the rest?




My concern was based on this introduction (on title page), especially on that 
sentence marked with asterisks:


Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), 
LuaTeX, or
XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 
for
automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion 
and
expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires 
pdfTeX
(≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX,


while the adjustment of interword spacing
and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40).

*

Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).



protrusion and expansion are supported at the luatex engine level but 
configuration is up to the macro packages and they can follow different 
approaches


the other things ... well, they are up to the macro package




3 - i have no clue what tracking is


As explained in that document this seems to be a synonym for letter spacing, 
which is IMO supported.


yes, context supports that (more than just letters)


4 - neither what additional kerning is (unless you mean (usually ugly)
extra inter character kerning, which is supported)


Rereading the description in that document there is no advanced processing 
behind it, so most likely just that ugly kerning, already available in ConTeXt. 
Just curious why not mentioned as supported on the title page.


what title page? anyway, one can kick in extra font features to deal 
with kerns (although when a font is that bad i'd use another font)



5 - it being a rather core tex feature, normal interword spacing is
supported


This seems to be a standard glue with plus/minus value. Again, curious why not 
mentioned as supported on the title page.


probably because it is so standard

Are you aware of any typographic feature which is available in pdfTeXt, but not in ConTeXt?-- 


pdftex is an engine so even if something is available it has to be 
supported by macros


i don't think that there are typographical advantages of using pdftex 
over luatex (at least not with context)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-05 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm 
Am 2016-04-06 um 03:51 schrieb Jan Tosovsky :

> 
> Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), 
> LuaTeX, or
> XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 
> 1.20 for
> automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion 
> and
> expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires 
> pdfTeX
> (≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX, 
> 
> 
> while the adjustment of interword spacing 
> and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40). 
> 
> *
> 
> Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).
> 

Looks like it’s not about interword spacing and kerning in itself, but their 
*adjustment*.

I didn’t look into that docs, but I’d assume, tracking refers to some logging 
or visualization of spacing.
AFAIR ConTeXt can do that very nicely (while I never used it and don’t know how 
to enable it).


Greetlings, Hraban
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Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-05 Thread Jan Tosovsky 
On 2016-04-05 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >
> > according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-
> > dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
> > pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
> > (1) Character protrusion
> > (2) Font expansion
> > (3) Tracking
> > (4) Additional kerning
> > (5) Interword spacing
> >
> > AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?) ...
> > Are there any plans to cover the rest?
> 

My concern was based on this introduction (on title page), especially on that 
sentence marked with asterisks:


Note that character protrusion requires pdfTeX (version 0.14f or later), 
LuaTeX, or
XeTeX (at least version 0.9997). Font expansion works with pdfTeX (version 1.20 
for
automatic expansion) or LuaTeX. The package will by default enable protrusion 
and
expansion if they can safely be assumed to work. Disabling ligatures requires 
pdfTeX
(≥ 1.30) or LuaTeX, 


while the adjustment of interword spacing 
and of kerning only works with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40). 

*

Letterspacing is available with pdfTeX (≥ 1.40) or LuaTeX (≥ 0.62).



> 3 - i have no clue what tracking is

As explained in that document this seems to be a synonym for letter spacing, 
which is IMO supported.

> 4 - neither what additional kerning is (unless you mean (usually ugly)
> extra inter character kerning, which is supported)

Rereading the description in that document there is no advanced processing 
behind it, so most likely just that ugly kerning, already available in ConTeXt. 
Just curious why not mentioned as supported on the title page.

> 5 - it being a rather core tex feature, normal interword spacing is
> supported

This seems to be a standard glue with plus/minus value. Again, curious why not 
mentioned as supported on the title page.

Are you aware of any typographic feature which is available in pdfTeXt, but not 
in ConTeXt?

Thnaks, Jan

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Re: [NTG-context] Microtypography in ConTeXt

2016-04-05 Thread Hans Hagen 

On 4/5/2016 10:55 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:

Dear All,

according to http://texdoc.net/texmf-dist/doc/latex/microtype/microtype.pdf
pdfTeX offers fine tuning of:
(1) Character protrusion
(2) Font expansion
(3) Tracking
(4) Additional kerning
(5) Interword spacing

AFAIK ConTeXt covers 1+2+(3?). In recent discussion Hans mentioned
experimental 'space kerning'. Is it anything related to above features (4)?
Are there any plans to cover the rest?


1 - protrusion is supported
2 - expansion is supported

both with variants and granularity

3 - i have no clue what tracking is
4 - neither what additional kerning is (unless you mean (usually ugly) 
extra inter character kerning, which is supported)
5 - it being a rather core tex feature, normal interword spacing is 
supported


the mentioned space kerning refers to kerning between characters and 
spaces defined in the font itself


Hans

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