RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Bob Hartung]

Here's what I'm considering ...


* Dock vs Tape Drive



* Pros

* Cost


* An external Quantum RDX dock cost $150 and has cartridges with capacity up to 
1 TB. A external Quantum LTO4 tape drive (800 MB) costs about $1,550 and an 
external Quantum LTO5 tape drive costs about @2,200. I've had 2 tape drives go 
bad in the last couple of years, one under warranty and one not.

* Maintenance

* RDX docks don't require cleaning like tape drives do.

* Longevity

* RDX docks have few moving parts so are less prone to failure
* LTO tape drives have restrictions on which cartridges they can access.   For 
instance, if you have LTO2 tapes and only have an LTO5 tape drive,   you can't 
read the LTO2 tape. In this circumstance, you might have to   restore the LTO2 
data back to disk and then save it to LTO5 just to   maintain ready access. 
Alternatively, buy an LTO3 tape drive and put it   on the shelf.
* 
 
 LTO MatrixLTO-1 DriveLTO-2 
DriveLTO-3 DriveLTO-4   
  DriveLTO-5 Drive
   LTO-1 TapeR/W   R/W   R  
 —   —
   LTO-2 Tape—   R/W   R/W  
 R   —
   LTO-3 Tape—   —   R/W
   R/W   R
   LTO-4 Tape—   —   —  
 R/W   R/W
   LTO-5 Tape   —   —   —   
—   R/W



* Cons

* Speed (I'm actually surprised by the tapes having a faster transfer rate than 
the RDX cartridges.)


* Quantum RDX connecting via ...


* USB 2.0 has a transfer rate of 25 MB/sec
* SATA has a tranfer rate of 45 MB/sec SATA



* Quantum LTO4 connecting via ...

* Ultra 320 SCSI has tranfer rate of 80 MB/sec
* 3 Gb/sec SAS has transfewr rate of 80 MB/sec



* Quantum LTO5 connecting via ...

* 6 Gb/sec SAS has tranfer rate of 140 MB/sec


* Durability (Lower longevity of RDX dock is offset by much lower price)


* RDX docks

* Dock: 10,000 load/unload cycles
MTBF: 550,000 hours MTBF
Unrecoverable Error Rate:1 error in 10 14  bits read

* LTO 4 Tape Drive

* MTBF (hours): 250,000 @ 100% duty cycle
Load/Unload Life: 50,000 cycles
Non-recoverable Error Rate:1 × 10 17  bits (non-media error, clean drive)

* LTO 5 Tape Drive

* MTBF hours: 250,000 @ 100% duty cycle
MSBF: 100,000 cycles
Load/Unload Life: 120,000 cycles
Non-recoverable Error Rate:1 in 1 × 10 17  bits (non-media error, clean 
drive)






* Disk Cartridge vs Tape

* Pros

* Longevity


* RDX Cartridges are disk drives so the ability to read the data on them is 
limited only by how long the hard drive can operate

* Cartridge Archive Life: 30 years

* LTO 4 Tape

* Archive Storage: 30 years

* LTO 5 Tape

* Archive Storage: 30 years


* LTO tape drives have restrictions on which cartridges they can access. For 
instance, if you have LTO2 tapes and only have an LTO5 tape drive, you can't 
read the LTO2 tape. In this circumstance, you might have to restore the LTO2 
data back to disk and then save it to LTO5 just to maintain ready access. 
Alternatively, buy an LTO3 tape drive and put it on the shelf

* Access time

* RDX drive access is 15 msec.
* LTO 4 access time is 80 secs.
* LTO 5 access time is 51 secs.

* Ease of use

* Since RDX Cartridges are hard drives, writing/reading data on them is much 
simpler; as easy as copy a file from the command prompt.
* LTO tapes generally require application software to read\write.  







* Cons

* Cost

* RDX 1 Tb cartridge costs about $185
* LTO4 tape costs about $35
* LTO5 tape costs about $65

* Durability

* Since RDX Cartridges are enclosed in a case that's meant to protect them, 
they have to be more durable than a bare drive but it's still a hard drive.

* Cartridge: 5,000 load/unload cycles


* LTO tapes are pretty rugged. I've dropped them on concrete floors and have 
yet to have one fail.

* LTO 4 Durability: 20,000 load/unload cycles
* LTO 5 Durability: 20,000 load/unload cycles





As with most things, there's no clear-cut winner here. But much food for 
thought.


--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com
  _  

From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk]
To: NT System Admin Issues [mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:27:50 -0500
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive


Sorry if this is a naive question but what is the benefit of RDX

RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Crawford, Scott]

This is basically our scenario, but you're still unprotected from a rogue admin 
or virus connecting to both DPM servers and wiping out all your backup.  A 
removable device at least puts an air gap to protect you from any damage that 
can be done over the network.

For that, I've been basically copying data off of the DPM server to removable 
2TB drives on a monthly basis.

From: Bob Fronk [mailto:b...@btrfronk.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:00 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

Currently at %dayjob% I am backing up about 9 TB... so I had abandoned 
removable media (Tape and Disk) a few years ago.

I use DPM which backs up to a 16TB SAN and a secondary DPM server and second 
SAN at a different location to back up the primary DPM server.  The two sites 
have a 45mbps WAN to move the data.


BF



From: Jonathan Link 
[mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]<mailto:[mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I've been using RDX for years.

Disk to disk to RDX backups.
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Bob Hartung 
mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com>> wrote:
I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out of 
warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable Disk 
Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of the RDX 
with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com<http://wiscoind.com>
Website: www.wiscoind.com<http://www.wiscoind.com>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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Re: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Jonathan Link]

Designed to absorb a shock from falling 1 meter onto a concrete surface.
I've done it with no ill effects.  The same cannot be said of the other 2.5"
disks I've dropped from time to time.


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:

>  Anyone know if there is any advantage to RDX over a simple external
> eSATA enclosure with removable disk trays?  It seems like the later
> would be cheaper, and more available/compatible, while doing the same
> thing.  Or does RDX do something special beyond providing a disk?
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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>

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Re: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Ben Scott]

  Anyone know if there is any advantage to RDX over a simple external
eSATA enclosure with removable disk trays?  It seems like the later
would be cheaper, and more available/compatible, while doing the same
thing.  Or does RDX do something special beyond providing a disk?

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Bob Fronk]

Currently at %dayjob% I am backing up about 9 TB... so I had abandoned 
removable media (Tape and Disk) a few years ago.

I use DPM which backs up to a 16TB SAN and a secondary DPM server and second 
SAN at a different location to back up the primary DPM server.  The two sites 
have a 45mbps WAN to move the data.


BF



From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I've been using RDX for years.

Disk to disk to RDX backups.
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Bob Hartung 
mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com>> wrote:
I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out of 
warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable Disk 
Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of the RDX 
with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com<http://wiscoind.com>
Website: www.wiscoind.com<http://www.wiscoind.com>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
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Re: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Jonathan Link]

I've been using RDX for years.

Disk to disk to RDX backups.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Bob Hartung  wrote:

> **
> I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out
> of warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.
>
> As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable
> Disk Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of
> the RDX with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any
> feedback.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Bob Hartung
> Wisco Industries, Inc.
> 736 Janesville St.
> Oregon, WI 53575
> Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
> Fax: (608) 835-7399
> e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
> Website: www.wiscoind.com
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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~   ~

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RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Bob Fronk]

I have not used tape in years, but if IIRC LTO2 is 200GB?

I used the 640GB drives for this small client, which allows for quintupling the 
data being backed up.  With the limited information, I don’t see why you 
couldn’t to the route of the RDX.


From: Bob Hartung [mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I'm currently using Arcserve and an LTO2 tape drive to backup a remote site. We 
do use a GFS rotation of 22 tapes.

Having worked with RD1000 (which is probably a relabeld Quantum drive), would 
you see any issues with using the RD1000 (or this kind of technology) as a 
replacement for the LTO2 tape drive? I checked and Arcserve supports the 
Quantum RDX.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com<http://www.wiscoind.com>

From: Bob Fronk [mailto:b...@btrfronk.com]<mailto:[mailto:b...@btrfronk.com]>
To: NT System Admin Issues 
[mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]<mailto:[mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]>
Sent: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:12:02 -0500
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive
I recently deployed a Dell RD1000 (quite possibly the same with a different 
label) for a small client I still support.

So far I can’t say anything too bad about it. Setup took only a few minutes.  I 
could not use the included software because it did not natively support 
Exchange without additional licensing, but Windows Backup has worked fine and 
the device simply appears as a drive.  One of their employees changes the drive 
every day and puts it in a Pelican case to take offsite for the night.

The one thing I did do, was buy two devices and some extra drives.  They store 
the spares off site.  I was afraid that 5 years from now, (when they are still 
using it because they only refresh when something breaks), the main one gets 
stolen or damaged and I can’t find a replacement to restore quickly.   This way 
they have one to plug in and pull a restore from another machine.

BF

From: Bob Hartung [mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com<mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com>]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 3:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out of 
warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable Disk 
Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of the RDX 
with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com<http://www.wiscoind.com>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Paul Hutchings]

Sorry if this is a naive question but what is the benefit of RDX over LTO?

We backup sufficient that LTO is the only viable tape option so I'm not 
familiar with RDX but at a quick glance the cartridges look damned expensive.

Presumably the benefit is that the base device looks to be cheap vs. an LTO 
drive/library?

From: Bob Hartung [bhart...@wiscoind.com]
Sent: 04 August 2011 9:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I'm currently using Arcserve and an LTO2 tape drive to backup a remote site. We 
do use a GFS rotation of 22 tapes.

Having worked with RD1000 (which is probably a relabeld Quantum drive), would 
you see any issues with using the RD1000 (or this kind of technology) as a 
replacement for the LTO2 tape drive? I checked and Arcserve supports the 
Quantum RDX.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com

From: Bob Fronk [mailto:b...@btrfronk.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues [mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:12:02 -0500
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I recently deployed a Dell RD1000 (quite possibly the same with a different 
label) for a small client I still support.

So far I can’t say anything too bad about it. Setup took only a few minutes.  I 
could not use the included software because it did not natively support 
Exchange without additional licensing, but Windows Backup has worked fine and 
the device simply appears as a drive.  One of their employees changes the drive 
every day and puts it in a Pelican case to take offsite for the night.

The one thing I did do, was buy two devices and some extra drives.  They store 
the spares off site.  I was afraid that 5 years from now, (when they are still 
using it because they only refresh when something breaks), the main one gets 
stolen or damaged and I can’t find a replacement to restore quickly.   This way 
they have one to plug in and pull a restore from another machine.

BF

From: Bob Hartung [mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com<mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com>]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 3:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out of 
warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable Disk 
Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of the RDX 
with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com<http://www.wiscoind.com>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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To manage subscriptions click here: 
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RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Bob Hartung]

I'm currently using Arcserve and an LTO2 tape drive to backup a remote site. We 
do use a GFS rotation of 22 tapes.

Having worked with RD1000 (which is probably a relabeld Quantum drive), would 
you see any issues with using the RD1000 (or this kind of technology) as a 
replacement for the LTO2 tape drive? I checked and Arcserve supports the 
Quantum RDX.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com
  _  

From: Bob Fronk [mailto:b...@btrfronk.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues [mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:12:02 -0500
Subject: RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive




I recently deployed a Dell RD1000 (quite possibly the same with a different 
label) for a small client I still support.

 

So far I can’t say anything too bad about it. Setup took only a few minutes.  I 
could not use the included software because it did not natively support 
Exchange without additional licensing, but Windows Backup has worked fine and 
the device simply appears as a drive.  One of their employees changes the drive 
every day and puts it in a Pelican case to take offsite for the night.  

 

The one thing I did do, was buy two devices and some extra drives.  They store 
the spares off site.  I was afraid that 5 years from now, (when they are still 
using it because they only refresh when something breaks), the main one gets 
stolen or damaged and I can’t find a replacement to restore quickly.   This way 
they have one to plug in and pull a restore from another machine.

 

 BF

 



From: Bob Hartung [mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 3:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RDX Removable Disk Drive

 

I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out of 
warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable Disk 
Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of the RDX 
with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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Re: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Jonathan]

This sounds interesting to me as well. I am curious what the capacity and
cost are for this type of solution. I just had an 8 slot SDLT Autoloader in
one of my branch offices die on me and was considering an HP MSL2024 LTO-5
24 slot library

Jonathan A+, MCSA, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Droid Incredible (and yes, it really is) on the
Verizon network. Please excuse brevity and any misspellings.

On Aug 4, 2011 3:59 PM, "Bob Hartung"  wrote:
**
I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out
of warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable
Disk Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of
the RDX with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any
feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: RDX Removable Disk Drive

[Bob Fronk]

I recently deployed a Dell RD1000 (quite possibly the same with a different 
label) for a small client I still support.

So far I can't say anything too bad about it. Setup took only a few minutes.  I 
could not use the included software because it did not natively support 
Exchange without additional licensing, but Windows Backup has worked fine and 
the device simply appears as a drive.  One of their employees changes the drive 
every day and puts it in a Pelican case to take offsite for the night.

The one thing I did do, was buy two devices and some extra drives.  They store 
the spares off site.  I was afraid that 5 years from now, (when they are still 
using it because they only refresh when something breaks), the main one gets 
stolen or damaged and I can't find a replacement to restore quickly.   This way 
they have one to plug in and pull a restore from another machine.

BF

From: Bob Hartung [mailto:bhart...@wiscoind.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 3:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RDX Removable Disk Drive

I've got a Dell PowerVault 110T LTO2 tape drive that has failed and was out of 
warranty so I have to replace the whole thing.

As a possible alternative, I've been looking at the Quantum RDX Removable Disk 
Drive. The price of an PowerVault 110T LTO3 tape drive and the cost of the RDX 
with 22 cartridges aren't that far apart.

Does anyone have any experience with these units? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

--

Bob Hartung
Wisco Industries, Inc.
736 Janesville St.
Oregon, WI 53575
Tel: (608) 835-3106 x215
Fax: (608) 835-7399
e-mail: bhartung(at)wiscoind.com
Website: www.wiscoind.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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