RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Poweredge 840 is a low end server right? And the SAS 5/IR has no restrictions on using non-Dell SATA II disks (as I've had that cr*ppy card before) Cheers Ken -Original Message- From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Thanks Ben, good info. special = some configuration that means non-Dell sourced drives will not work in said server. Dave -Original Message- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:35 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Also the SASir card is limited to Raid 0 and Raid 1, it will not do any other raid levels. You have to move to the Perc SAS/SATA combo raid cards for that. -Original Message- From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:21 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Poweredge 840 is a low end server right? And the SAS 5/IR has no restrictions on using non-Dell SATA II disks (as I've had that cr*ppy card before) Cheers Ken -Original Message- From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Thanks Ben, good info. special = some configuration that means non-Dell sourced drives will not work in said server. Dave -Original Message- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:35 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
some media drives ( at least this used to be true ) had a different TCal logic (thermal recalibration) to keep the data stream as a priority. On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Ben Scott mailvor...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. -- Ben ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Correct on the low-end, it's an SBS box for an office of 17 folks. Any idea on what kind of cable I need? regular SATA or some SAS-SATA thing...or are they the same cable? I don't have regular access to this server so it's easier for me to ask than to make a special trip out there to look :-). Dave -Original Message- From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:21 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Poweredge 840 is a low end server right? And the SAS 5/IR has no restrictions on using non-Dell SATA II disks (as I've had that cr*ppy card before) Cheers Ken -Original Message- From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Thanks Ben, good info. special = some configuration that means non-Dell sourced drives will not work in said server. Dave -Original Message- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:35 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
The SAS and SATA connectors were designed to be compatible from the beginning. You won't need any different cabling with the new drives. On 5/20/2010 10:28 AM, David Lum wrote: Correct on the low-end, it's an SBS box for an office of 17 folks. Any idea on what kind of cable I need? regular SATA or some SAS-SATA thing...or are they the same cable? I don't have regular access to this server so it's easier for me to ask than to make a special trip out there to look :-). -- Phil Brutsche p...@optimumdata.com ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
The SAS 5/IR should ship with the necessary cables... Cheers Ken -Original Message- From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2010 11:28 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Correct on the low-end, it's an SBS box for an office of 17 folks. Any idea on what kind of cable I need? regular SATA or some SAS-SATA thing...or are they the same cable? I don't have regular access to this server so it's easier for me to ask than to make a special trip out there to look :-). Dave -Original Message- From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:21 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Poweredge 840 is a low end server right? And the SAS 5/IR has no restrictions on using non-Dell SATA II disks (as I've had that cr*ppy card before) Cheers Ken -Original Message- From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2010 11:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Thanks Ben, good info. special = some configuration that means non-Dell sourced drives will not work in said server. Dave -Original Message- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:35 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
I would get in touch with someone in Dell's sales upgrades dept. Get the exact model number they would be sending you and see if you can source it elsewhere. PS I love newegg. Thanks, Jeff Cain Technical Support Analyst Sunbelt Software Email: supp...@sunbeltsoftware.commailto:supp...@sunbeltsoftware.com Voice: 1-877-673-1153 Fax: 1-727-562-5199 Web: http://www.sunbeltsoftware.comhttp://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/ Physical Address: 33 N Garden Ave Suite 1200 Clearwater, FL 33755 United States If you do not want further email from us, please forward this message to listmana...@sunbelt-software.commailto:listmana...@sunbelt-software.com with the word 'unsubscribe' in the subject of your email. Helpful Sunbelt Software Links: Knowledge Basehttp://support.sunbeltsoftware.com/ Open a New Support Tickethttp://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Support/Contact/ Sunbelt Software Product Support Communitieshttp://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/communities/ From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? I have a PE840 with a SAS 5/iR card and SATA II drives. Looking at Dell's site they want $270 for a single 500GB SATA II, Newegg has a very similar 500GB (Western Digital, so same as in there now, same spindle speed and interface speeds) for $90/each, and I plan on buying two to make 'em RAID1. The currently installed 250GB drives are model WD2500YS, what I'm looking at at Newegg is WD5000ABYS, so I'm thinking quite similar drives. Also I don't know if I need a SATA-SAS cable or if a std SATA cable will work. The new drives will be Raid 1 all on their own and not added to the current logical drives. Anyone have experience here? David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION (Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764 ... ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
If the Dell SATA drives are intended to work with the Dell RAID cards, then they likely have DELL oem’d firmware compared to consumer shelf drives. Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security ' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! ' From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? I have a PE840 with a SAS 5/iR card and SATA II drives. Looking at Dell’s site they want $270 for a single 500GB SATA II, Newegg has a very similar 500GB (Western Digital, so same as in there now, same spindle speed and interface speeds) for $90/each, and I plan on buying two to make ‘em RAID1. The currently installed 250GB drives are model WD2500YS, what I’m looking at at Newegg is WD5000ABYS, so I’m thinking quite similar drives. Also I don’t know if I need a SATA-SAS cable or if a std SATA cable will work. The new drives will be Raid 1 all on their own and not added to the current logical drives. Anyone have experience here? David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION (Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Normal SATA II drives work fine with the SAS 5/IR Cheers Ken From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2010 10:40 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? If the Dell SATA drives are intended to work with the Dell RAID cards, then they likely have DELL oem'd firmware compared to consumer shelf drives. Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security ' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! ' From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? I have a PE840 with a SAS 5/iR card and SATA II drives. Looking at Dell's site they want $270 for a single 500GB SATA II, Newegg has a very similar 500GB (Western Digital, so same as in there now, same spindle speed and interface speeds) for $90/each, and I plan on buying two to make 'em RAID1. The currently installed 250GB drives are model WD2500YS, what I'm looking at at Newegg is WD5000ABYS, so I'm thinking quite similar drives. Also I don't know if I need a SATA-SAS cable or if a std SATA cable will work. The new drives will be Raid 1 all on their own and not added to the current logical drives. Anyone have experience here? David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION (Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Thanks, I’d *heard* that Dell relaxed the requirement of using DELL oem’d drives on their newer servers, but still don’t know : 1) If consumer shelf drives work properly regardless of firmware levels ( are they upgradable too with the Dell firmware ? ) 2) If any RAID/Storage support issues arise, will Dell still support or require to change to Dell drives prior to any help ? Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security ' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! ' From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:42 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Normal SATA II drives work fine with the SAS 5/IR Cheers Ken From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2010 10:40 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? If the Dell SATA drives are intended to work with the Dell RAID cards, then they likely have DELL oem’d firmware compared to consumer shelf drives. Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security ' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! ' From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? I have a PE840 with a SAS 5/iR card and SATA II drives. Looking at Dell’s site they want $270 for a single 500GB SATA II, Newegg has a very similar 500GB (Western Digital, so same as in there now, same spindle speed and interface speeds) for $90/each, and I plan on buying two to make ‘em RAID1. The currently installed 250GB drives are model WD2500YS, what I’m looking at at Newegg is WD5000ABYS, so I’m thinking quite similar drives. Also I don’t know if I need a SATA-SAS cable or if a std SATA cable will work. The new drives will be Raid 1 all on their own and not added to the current logical drives. Anyone have experience here? David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION (Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
I would not EVER use a normal consumer SATA drive in any sort of RAID array. The only SATA drives I would use are the ones intended for server storage - the Western Digital RE series or the Seagate Barracuda ES series. The Western Digital WD5002ABYS is an RE drive and should be fine. On 5/19/2010 9:51 AM, Erik Goldoff wrote: Thanks, I’d **heard** that Dell relaxed the requirement of using DELL oem’d drives on their newer servers, but still don’t know : 1) If consumer shelf drives work properly regardless of firmware levels ( are they upgradable too with the Dell firmware ? ) -- Phil Brutsche p...@optimumdata.com ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Because of these features, right? * Superior reliability - Designed and manufactured to provide server-class reliability in high duty cycle environments. With 1.2 million hours MTBF, these drives have the highest available reliability rating on a high-capacity drive. * RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER) - Significantly reduces drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives. Dave -Original Message- From: Phil Brutsche [mailto:p...@optimumdata.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:13 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? I would not EVER use a normal consumer SATA drive in any sort of RAID array. The only SATA drives I would use are the ones intended for server storage - the Western Digital RE series or the Seagate Barracuda ES series. The Western Digital WD5002ABYS is an RE drive and should be fine. On 5/19/2010 9:51 AM, Erik Goldoff wrote: Thanks, I'd **heard** that Dell relaxed the requirement of using DELL oem'd drives on their newer servers, but still don't know : 1) If consumer shelf drives work properly regardless of firmware levels ( are they upgradable too with the Dell firmware ? ) -- Phil Brutsche p...@optimumdata.com ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Yessir The point is the biggest one. On 5/19/2010 10:21 AM, David Lum wrote: Because of these features, right? * Superior reliability - Designed and manufactured to provide server-class reliability in high duty cycle environments. With 1.2 million hours MTBF, these drives have the highest available reliability rating on a high-capacity drive. * RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER) - Significantly reduces drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives. -- Phil Brutsche p...@optimumdata.com ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Adding to my own noise, good reading as I'd never heard of these features. I learn hardware specs like this on as needed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-Limited_Error_Recovery Do many of you guys stay current on motherboards, HDD, RAM, vid card, etc technology? If so, what's your source for info? I dive in only when a task requires me to spec something out, so it can be months of nothing with bursts of an intense 12-14hrs of catching up with the times. Usually buying a new home PC involves a week of catching up on RAM, HDD, CPU and video card technology, I think last time I spent close to 30 hours all said and done. The CPU side nowadays is the worst! Dave -Original Message- From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:21 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? Because of these features, right? * Superior reliability - Designed and manufactured to provide server-class reliability in high duty cycle environments. With 1.2 million hours MTBF, these drives have the highest available reliability rating on a high-capacity drive. * RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER) - Significantly reduces drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives. Dave -Original Message- From: Phil Brutsche [mailto:p...@optimumdata.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:13 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? I would not EVER use a normal consumer SATA drive in any sort of RAID array. The only SATA drives I would use are the ones intended for server storage - the Western Digital RE series or the Seagate Barracuda ES series. The Western Digital WD5002ABYS is an RE drive and should be fine. On 5/19/2010 9:51 AM, Erik Goldoff wrote: Thanks, I'd **heard** that Dell relaxed the requirement of using DELL oem'd drives on their newer servers, but still don't know : 1) If consumer shelf drives work properly regardless of firmware levels ( are they upgradable too with the Dell firmware ? ) -- Phil Brutsche p...@optimumdata.com ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. -- Ben ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Thanks Ben, good info. special = some configuration that means non-Dell sourced drives will not work in said server. Dave -Original Message- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:35 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA? On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: IS there anything special about Dell-supplied SATA drives? Define special. The HDA (hard disk assembly) and PCB (printed circuit board) are almost certainly the same as you would get if you bought a similar spec'ed drive from Wal-Mart. Some Dell drives have firmware which identifies themselves as Dell, thus allowing them to work with Dell RAID controllers which refuse anything else. Some enterprise hard disk drives have tweaked firmware, supposedly to optimize them for enterprise usage. Exactly how much, if any, benefit there is to such tweaks is a subject of considerable debate. Firmware tweaks *can* make a difference. Examples: One of the reported problems in the infamous IBM DeathStar debacle was that the drives would idle the heads in a single track. Under typical home luser usage patterns, that wasn't a problem. For a PC left on all the time but largely idle, though, it could lead to wear on that one track. The fix was to tweak the firmware to occasionally move the actuator arm, even when idle. Some HDD models are marked for media use, like in DVRs. What they do is tweak the firmware to quickly give up on a read/write error. Typical hard drives will keep retrying, often for several seconds. For a Word document, that's what you want, but for streaming media, it's more important to keep the stream streaming. A single lost block will be a barely noticeable glitch in the audio or picture. -- Ben ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: Dell PowerEdge 840 SATA?
Oh, and there's one that's not on this list: Enterprise-grade SATA drives report an SAS WWN. Plain consumer drives do not. It might sound like a minor thing, but any SAS storage array that uses an SAS expander chip will refuse to operate with plain consumer drives connected. On 5/19/2010 10:21 AM, David Lum wrote: Because of these features, right? * Superior reliability - Designed and manufactured to provide server-class reliability in high duty cycle environments. With 1.2 million hours MTBF, these drives have the highest available reliability rating on a high-capacity drive. * RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER) - Significantly reduces drive fallout caused by the extended hard drive error-recovery processes common to desktop drives. -- Phil Brutsche p...@optimumdata.com ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
