[nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day
from techdirt: -snip- Glenn Fleishman is looking at the numbers and figures that T-Mobile is bringing in approximately $13/day per hotspot they're running. Not particularly overwhelming - especially when their "daypass" rates are $10/day. As Glenn points out, they're a long way from making WiFi pay. Meanwhile, Schlotzsky's continues to talk about how much more business they're doing thanks to free WiFi. Which seems like the better business model to you? -snip- http://wifinetnews.com/archives/003136.html pgp key: http://www.jonbaer.net/jonbaer.asc fingerprint: F438 A47E C45E 8B27 F68C 1F9B 41DB DB8B 9A0C AF47 -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
[nycwireless] Asus preps WiFi harddrive ...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/69/36534.html -snip- Asus is promising to "change your perception on data storage" when it releases what may be the world's first Wi-Fi enabled network-attached hard drive storage system. -snip- i personally wish they made these dirt dirt cheap, im sure it could be possible with a VIA board but the form factor would be cludgy @ best ... pgp key: http://www.jonbaer.net/jonbaer.asc fingerprint: F438 A47E C45E 8B27 F68C 1F9B 41DB DB8B 9A0C AF47 -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
RE: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day
They may bring in $13 a day, but how much goes out? Take an average T-1 monthly cost of $480 and divide it by 31 and you get an recurring outgoing cost of one single component at $15 a day. Add staff, marketing, the kickback to Starbucks, IBM Global Services, Insurance, marketing etc. It starts to look like a very ugly business model. The sooner Starbucks buys out the network from T-Mobile and gives away free access to anyone with a Starbucks Coffee Club card, the better. Cheers Nigel Nigel Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.joejava.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jon baer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day from techdirt: -snip- Glenn Fleishman is looking at the numbers and figures that T-Mobile is bringing in approximately $13/day per hotspot they're running. Not particularly overwhelming - especially when their "daypass" rates are $10/day. As Glenn points out, they're a long way from making WiFi pay. Meanwhile, Schlotzsky's continues to talk about how much more business they're doing thanks to free WiFi. Which seems like the better business model to you? -snip- http://wifinetnews.com/archives/003136.html pgp key: http://www.jonbaer.net/jonbaer.asc fingerprint: F438 A47E C45E 8B27 F68C 1F9B 41DB DB8B 9A0C AF47 -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
Re: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day
> Take an average T-1 monthly cost of $480 and divide it by 31 and you get an > recurring outgoing cost of one single component at $15 a day. Is it really *that* cheap these days? I always thought the figure for a T-1 was around $700+ ... I think your analysis is right on, when you figure a DSL is $60 @ a mere $2 or less per day you only need to sell ONE cup of coffee and its paid for ... and if you figure the average caffeinated freak drinks @ least 3 cups :-) I say free WiFi and a roaming guy with a tip jar can go a long way - Jon -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
RE: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day
Jon I took a low national corporate rate to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can get you a one-off T-1 in downtown Portland for $530, but in Montana it might run you $900. I'm assuming T-Mobile cut killer deals on their T-1's. Cheers Nigel Nigel Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.joejava.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jon baer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day > Take an average T-1 monthly cost of $480 and divide it by 31 and you > get an > recurring outgoing cost of one single component at $15 a day. Is it really *that* cheap these days? I always thought the figure for a T-1 was around $700+ ... I think your analysis is right on, when you figure a DSL is $60 @ a mere $2 or less per day you only need to sell ONE cup of coffee and its paid for ... and if you figure the average caffeinated freak drinks @ least 3 cups :-) I say free WiFi and a roaming guy with a tip jar can go a long way - Jon -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
[nycwireless] Fwd: Strangled telecom: how a "natural monopoly" stays that way
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:32:24 -0500 From: Andy Oram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Strangled telecom: how a "natural monopoly" stays that way To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4616 Strangled telecom: how a "natural monopoly" stays that way Andy Oram URL: http://news.com.com/2100-1037_3-5178640.html Few will make the connection. But yesterday's news about a Supreme Court ruling on municipal phone networks represents another knot in the noose tightening around the neck of new and innovative communications technologies. Twenty years from now, as we're all complaining about the lack of viable and affordable high-speed communications--just as people were complaining twenty years ago, and as we are complaining now--we'll hardly remember the quiet gurgling noise made by the promise of innovation as it got slowly strangled to death. And unless we learn the tricks of the dominant monopolies, we will pass through death after death. The first finger on the throat: Section 251 undermined What constitutes competition? The landmark Telecom Act of 1996 was the communications update to Nikolai Bukharin's call on Russian peasants: "Enrich yourselves." Here, the long-distance, local, and cable companies were supposed to invade each other's turf and vastly expand communications offerings for the public. But the 1996 act left scant opportunity for new, small providers. It did open a chink in the armor of monopoly through the well-known Section 251, which required incumbent phone companies to open their networks to competition in a variety of ways. But the Bell companies made sure that part of the law would subsequently be rendered toothless. The major extraction was performed by Michael Powell's FCC on August 21, 2003, when it heeded Bell company claims that the requirement to support competition was holding back their own deployment of high-speed connections. The FCC cleverly worked around the spirit (in my opinion) of Section 251 by separating phone networks into the old and the new. On the old ones--which support ADSL at best--competition would be required as specified in the Telecom Act. On new ones--especially those built on fiber--the Bells would not have to allow competition. Well, maybe the gutting of Section 251 was inevitable; a lot of observers figured it would be. The Bells were so effective at making life impossible for competitors that it would have taken years of sympathetic courts (which, as we will see, are not anxious to play that role) to force a competitive environment. The hundred little ways Bells undermine the law have been documented in lawsuits and FCC documents, as summarized in my article [80]Bell Telephone Companies' Applications to Enter Long-Distance Market. Furthermore, the Bells made sure over and over, year after year, to get their well-funded congressional backers to introduce bills that would weaken Section 251. The FCC knew it was under tremendous political pressure to give the Bells some relief, and since Powell's sincere ideological bent lay in that direction anyway, Section 251 had to give. The pressure increases: competitive charges overturned But the FCC has been consistent about promoting competition in one manner: by setting low rates for the lease or sale of incumbent telephone companies' lines and equipment. The FCC figured that most of this stuff had been laid down ages ago and had paid for itself many times over; it was about time to share the wealth with competitors who might make better use of it. (I will look at the implications of sunk investments later in the article.) So the FCC tried to set prices based not on what it cost to install the equipment, but on how much it could earn in the future--in other words, to treat the incumbents on the same level as the competitors. The Bells found that a pretty hard vampire to kill, but it looks like they've finally sunk the silver stake in place. The matter has gone back and forth in the courts for years, but the tide has turned against the FCC. Whatever the merits of the courts' rulings, the effect is to cut off innovation and sacrifice the public interest in favor of the Bells' monopoly status. Sliding up the other side of the neck: municipal networks constrained If it is effectively impossible to offer service over existing phone equipment, new equipment must be laid down. And that requires a major economic player; Mom-and-Pop ISPs are not the ones to drive this revolution. Enter, then, the municipal governments. Cities around the country, alarmed by the loss of jobs and population and understanding that only a modern telecommunications infrastructure offers the hope of survival, have become so frustrated by the refusal of existing phone companies to build advanced networks that they've
Re: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day
Bet on it. The cost of the *average* T1 at Wayport (including the channelized DS3s where they terminated) was $230. T-mobile is a carrier. I assure you their per-mile rate on T1s is quite low, and they have (real) co-lo with the Bells. Any IXC probably runs on fiber that they own or lease, so those charges are nearly $0. I'd guess they're making money, actually. jim On Mar 26, 2004, at 8:08 AM, Nigel Ballard wrote: Jon I took a low national corporate rate to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can get you a one-off T-1 in downtown Portland for $530, but in Montana it might run you $900. I'm assuming T-Mobile cut killer deals on their T-1's. Cheers Nigel Nigel Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.joejava.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jon baer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day Take an average T-1 monthly cost of $480 and divide it by 31 and you get an recurring outgoing cost of one single component at $15 a day. Is it really *that* cheap these days? I always thought the figure for a T-1 was around $700+ ... I think your analysis is right on, when you figure a DSL is $60 @ a mere $2 or less per day you only need to sell ONE cup of coffee and its paid for ... and if you figure the average caffeinated freak drinks @ least 3 cups :-) I say free WiFi and a roaming guy with a tip jar can go a long way - Jon -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
Re: [nycwireless] T-Mobile brings in $13 bucks a day
T1s are composed of two "tail circuits", and an Inter-office (IX/IXC) portion. You're never going to eliminate the tail circuit from the CO out to the location (Starbucks), unless the building where the Starbucks is located is "on-net", of course. We'll call that unlikely for now. If you're a large carrier, you will likely bring your own bandwidth into the CO(s) near the cell towers you operate. If you're a large nation-wide carrier, then you likely have cell towers near where the demographics that support a Starf*cks are located. Thus, you likely have bandwidth into the CO. e.g. you're co-located. Once you've got your own bandwidth there (basically paid for by the voice biz) the T1s out to the local Starf*cks cost almost exactly nothing (call it $90/mo for a tail circuit in a major metro area. The most expensive tail circuit I bought at Wayport was about $300. It went to Key West, Fla from Miami. There is no available copper in Key West, thus the "high" rate. And Wayport wasn't big enough to be able to afford colo with the LEC. We were discussing it with WCOM at one point. (Wayport's network is hosted on Level3's colo sites, (and mostly Level3 intra-site bandwidth too.)) And we still had an average T1 cost of < $250. Just because your ISP charges you $700/mo doesn't mean thats what they pay. Now, consider what happens if T-Mobile decides to locate a Pico-cell on top of (or in) all of those *f*cks... You already have a T1 worth of bandwidth going out, which, given GSM CODEC rates, is nearly 100 simultaneous calls. The other thing that makes larger hotspot operations go the T1 route is that you can a) order them in-bulk, with one email/fax/phone call, to literally 100s of locations and b) they're available *anywhere*. Try getting xDSL to j-random-hotspot. Repeat 100 times. Now repeat 1000 times. Further, lets say that T-mobile does spend $1000 or even $3000 per hotspot, and that they have 2000 locations up and running. Thats $6MM, which is a lot to a start-up, but nearly meaningless to a company the size of T-Mobile. So lets pretend that T-Mobile does pay $600/mo per T1: $1.2MM/mo The ad campaign with Zeta-Jones costs more than that. Hell, its likely that WiFi is a loss-leader for T-Mobile, an attempt to reduce subscriber 'churn', since T-Mobile/Voicestream at least used-to have the highest churn rate of almost any carrier. Do you know what subscriber acquisition costs are like for a cell phone carrier? None of this means I'm a "fan" of for-pay Wifi, btw. Jim On Mar 26, 2004, at 1:18 PM, Glenn Fleishman wrote: Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 3/26/04 at 1:10 PM wrote: The cost of the *average* T1 at Wayport (including the channelized DS3s where they terminated) was $230. T-mobile is a carrier. I assure you their per-mile rate on T1s is quite low, and they have (real) co-lo with the Bells. Any IXC probably runs on fiber that they own or lease, so those charges are nearly $0. I'd guess they're making money, actually. I think I need more detail to understand this. T-Mobile is co-located at all of the central offices run by the RBOCs? In which case, they must still be paying a per-mile fee and other fees to use copper off the co-lo since these Starbucks are generally not going to be near fiber loops that I'm aware of. -- Glenn Fleishman, Unsolicited Pundit: read my work at http://glennf.com Senior editor of JiWire, your guide to Wi-Fi - http://www.jiwire.com/ Macintosh columnist, The Seattle Times http://seattletimes.com/ptech/ Contributing editor, News, InfoWorld magazine http://www.infoworld.com Contributing editor, TidBITS, -the- Mac newsletter http://tidbits.com Read daily wireless networking industry news at http://wifinetnews.com -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
