Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Dave Mill]

Hi all

Just to prod this thread again.

During late May and early June a whole lot of updates, removals and
additions to the noc-list came through.

I had mad dreams of tidying up the HTML (take a look, its nasty) and also
linking to peeringDB records but one month on I hadn't gotten around to it.

As of today, all known changes to the list are complete. I haven't replied
to all of you - there were quite a few changes.

It seems in general that a lot of people still appreciate the noc-list but
in general if a network actively peers USE PEERINGDB :)

If anyone feels like:

-cleaning up the html
-supplying html with (valid) peeringdb links included
-attempting contact with entries we believe are long-dead
-or otherwise improving the quality of the list

Then please make contact with me (make contact first to save duplication of
work). I actually have some code that now pulls details from peeringDB but
am only using it internally at Inspire right now.

We can't easily give people direct access to changing the noc-list at the
moment. I can however paste HTML really well :)

Cheers
Dave

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Simon Lyall  wrote:

> On Sun, 28 May 2017, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
>
>> Maybe a function where someone could 'Report Incorrect Data' that then
>> triggers an email off to the contact and if they don't respond in a timely
>> manner flag the entry as out of date or possibly even remove it from being
>> public until it is located.
>>
>
> Agreed. I'm pretty sure many of the companies no longer exist (ie closed
> or merged with other companies). Some of them over 5 years ago. Scanning
> the list most of the following are gone/merged:
>
> Actrix, Black Albatross, Digiweb, Global Gateway, igrin, ihug, iprolink,
> Maxnet/callplus/orcon/FX/Wise, morenet, Now NZ, planB/Turnstone, Splice,
> supra, switchsource, unifone, Whoosh, ZeroOne
>
> also Voyager is missing.
>
> --
> Simon Lyall  |  Very Busy  |  Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/
> "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar
>
>
>
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Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Simon Lyall]

On Sun, 28 May 2017, Nathan Brookfield wrote:

Maybe a function where someone could 'Report Incorrect Data' that then
triggers an email off to the contact and if they don't respond in a timely
manner flag the entry as out of date or possibly even remove it from being
public until it is located.


Agreed. I'm pretty sure many of the companies no longer exist (ie closed 
or merged with other companies). Some of them over 5 years ago. Scanning 
the list most of the following are gone/merged:


Actrix, Black Albatross, Digiweb, Global Gateway, igrin, ihug, 
iprolink, Maxnet/callplus/orcon/FX/Wise, morenet, Now NZ, 
planB/Turnstone, Splice, supra, switchsource, unifone, Whoosh, ZeroOne


also Voyager is missing.

--
Simon Lyall  |  Very Busy  |  Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/
"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar

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Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Nathan Brookfield]

Maybe a function where someone could 'Report Incorrect Data' that then triggers 
an email off to the contact and if they don't respond in a timely manner flag 
the entry as out of date or possibly even remove it from being public until it 
is located.

Another though is an automated process where each company needs to log-in and 
verify the data once every 6 months and if not once again. Entry removes from 
public display until it is verified.

Nathan Brookfield
Chief Executive Officer

Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd
http://www.simtronic.com.au

On 28 May 2017, at 11:47, Matthew Moyle-Croft 
<m...@mmc.com.au<mailto:m...@mmc.com.au>> wrote:

Hi,
NOC lists are useful if people believe the data is accurate and upto date.  
What’s worse is when people no longer feel they can trust it (either contacts 
have changed, companies gone out of business, been bought etc).

I’d love to see a few simple changes to the NZNOG list:
- a link to a peeringdb entry if one exists
- a date when an entry was updated - even a “marked current at "
- potential comment on whether this entry is upto date or not - (eg. may have 
been merged with  or something similar).

MMC




On 27 May 2017, at 4:37 AM, Nathan Ward 
<nz...@daork.net<mailto:nz...@daork.net>> wrote:

Hi,

I think the intersection of networks who should be listed on a NOC list and 
networks but who don’t (and are unlikely to ever) peer is around 3, and of 
those networks I suspect that all of them already have relationships with their 
customers for issues. If you want your info to be available, perhaps post it on 
your website.

Additionally, I don’t believe you need to peer to be in PeeringDB.

On 27/05/2017, at 5:44 PM, Peter Ensor 
<peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz<mailto:peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz>> wrote:

The advantage of this list http://www.nznog.org/noc-list is that companies like 
Ultrafast Fibre can be listed whereas UFF won't be in the peering dB because we 
don't peer.

There will be other LFCs and perhaps other networks that people may wish to 
contact that won't be in the peering db.

Hence my vote is for the noc-list.

Cheers,

Peter Ensor | Chief Architect
Ultrafast Fibre
T +64 (7) 8503880   M +64 (21) 02502772
E peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz<mailto:peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz>
W ultrafastfibre.co.nz<http://ultrafastfibre.co.nz/>




Attention: This e-mail message is intended for the intended recipient only and 
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-Original Message-
From: nznog-boun...@list.waikato.ac.nz<mailto:nznog-boun...@list.waikato.ac.nz> 
[mailto:nznog-boun...@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Michael Fincham
Sent: Friday, 26 May 2017 5:21 p.m.
To: nznog
Subject: Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

On Fri, 26 May 2017 13:31:10 +1200, Jonathan Brewer 
<jon.bre...@gmail.com<mailto:jon.bre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> An NZ-specific NOC list is not all that useful anymore.

For contrast, I quite like having a local list so we're not dependent on 
PeeringDB (which is not to say I think people shouldn't update PeeringDB, it's 
still useful). The Internet is all about decentralisation after all.

For some reason it doesn't look like you can query PeeringDB for networks in in 
a particular country (only Exchanges and Facilities), which I suspect makes 
automating a list of NZ operators oddly complicated to achieve.

--
Michael
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Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Nathan Ward]

Hi,

I think the intersection of networks who should be listed on a NOC list and 
networks but who don’t (and are unlikely to ever) peer is around 3, and of 
those networks I suspect that all of them already have relationships with their 
customers for issues. If you want your info to be available, perhaps post it on 
your website.

Additionally, I don’t believe you need to peer to be in PeeringDB.

> On 27/05/2017, at 5:44 PM, Peter Ensor <peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz> wrote:
> 
> The advantage of this list http://www.nznog.org/noc-list 
> <http://www.nznog.org/noc-list> is that companies like Ultrafast Fibre can be 
> listed whereas UFF won't be in the peering dB because we don't peer.
> 
> There will be other LFCs and perhaps other networks that people may wish to 
> contact that won't be in the peering db.
> 
> Hence my vote is for the noc-list.
> 
> Cheers,
> Peter Ensor | Chief Architect  
> Ultrafast Fibre
> T +64 (7) 8503880   M +64 (21) 02502772
> E peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz <mailto:peter.en...@ultrafast.co.nz>
> W ultrafastfibre.co.nz <http://ultrafastfibre.co.nz/>
> 
> Attention: This e-mail message is intended for the intended recipient only 
> and it may contain Ultrafast Fibre Limited confidential or legally privileged 
> information or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost if 
> this email has been delivered to the wrong recipient. If you have received 
> this email in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify 
> Ultrafast Fibre Limited. You must not disclose, copy or relay any part of 
> this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. Any views 
> expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and not 
> Ultrafast Fibre Limited. This email has been checked for viruses. However, 
> Ultrafast Fibre Limited makes no warranty that this email or any attachments 
> are free from viruses or other conditions which may damage or interfere with 
> recipient data, hardware or software. The recipient relies on its own 
> procedures and assumes all risk of use and of opening any attachments.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: nznog-boun...@list.waikato.ac.nz 
> [mailto:nznog-boun...@list.waikato.ac.nz 
> <mailto:nznog-boun...@list.waikato.ac.nz>] On Behalf Of Michael Fincham
> Sent: Friday, 26 May 2017 5:21 p.m.
> To: nznog
> Subject: Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details
> 
> On Fri, 26 May 2017 13:31:10 +1200, Jonathan Brewer <jon.bre...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> > An NZ-specific NOC list is not all that useful anymore.
> 
> For contrast, I quite like having a local list so we're not dependent on 
> PeeringDB (which is not to say I think people shouldn't update PeeringDB, 
> it's still useful). The Internet is all about decentralisation after all.
> 
> For some reason it doesn't look like you can query PeeringDB for networks in 
> in a particular country (only Exchanges and Facilities), which I suspect 
> makes automating a list of NZ operators oddly complicated to achieve.
> 
> --
> Michael
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Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Nathan Ward]

Hi,

> On 26/05/2017, at 9:36 AM, Dave Mill  wrote:
> 
> I completely agree.
> 
> We had this discussion about a year or so ago on this list and the general 
> consensus was:
> 
> -People should use peeringDB
> -And we should automate the NZNOG noc list - which we received offers from 
> people to do
> 
> However, nothing has changed since.
> 
> So, if someone still wants to try and automate our NOC list then feel free (I 
> think Nathan offered ages ago). In the meantime I action updates I receive 
> when I get around to it (typically a 1 hour to 1 month turn around). I have 
> no known updates that I'm sitting on at the moment.

That was more than a year ago I think! I started looking at this then they were 
talking about a new API so I held off.. then have been busy :-(

My view these days though - stick your stuff in PeeringDB.
I reckon we should make the NOC list refer to that, and note that the list 
itself may be outdated, and that PeeringDB is better. A local NOC list doesn’t 
give us any benefit.

--
Nathan Ward

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Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Brad Pearpoint]

>PeeringDB is the best way forward.

Great theory until you try to update your records and they don't believe you 
for whatever reason and refuse to enter into any dialogue to resolve the issue!


The exact quote was:

Brad,
I'm not in th mood to discuss our policy. Like it or leave it.
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Re: [nznog] Reminder to update noc contact list/details

[Dave Mill]

My post triggered a few updates to come through which are now all complete.

To be clear I am only updating the list when I receive information from the
organisation itself.

At this stage I am:
-Not removing organisation that I don't think exist any more - I might be
wrong
-Generally not removing old staff members unless I have concrete evidence
they have moved on
-Not removing organisations that have been recently acquired - they might
still want their original listing on the list

I do fully support us either automating this list somewhat, or just
suggesting people use PeeringDB instead.

Hint, now is a good time to either update your peeringDB entries or even
just add your organisation for the first time.

Cheers
Dave


On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Dave Mill  wrote:

> I completely agree.
>
> We had this discussion about a year or so ago on this list and the general
> consensus was:
>
> -People should use peeringDB
> -And we should automate the NZNOG noc list - which we received offers from
> people to do
>
> However, nothing has changed since.
>
> So, if someone still wants to try and automate our NOC list then feel free
> (I think Nathan offered ages ago). In the meantime I action updates I
> receive when I get around to it (typically a 1 hour to 1 month turn
> around). I have no known updates that I'm sitting on at the moment.
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
> (NZNOG trustee and NOC list updatererer)
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Joel Wirāmu Pauling 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all; was looking something up for a client and noticed the Noc list
>> here;
>>
>>  http://www.nznog.org/noc-list
>>
>>  - could do with some updating.
>>
>> Voyager is missing, other things I know to be wrong are that several of
>> the Noc's listed have been subsumed into larger orgs.
>>
>>
>> -Joel
>>
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