Re: [DISCUSSION] start collecting the correct content for a NOTICE.txt file
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: I find it is interesting that NOTICE is the preference and there are objections to adding an extension. It doesn't let SVN line-ends be dealt with in accord with the local system though. That is why I use LICENSE.txt and NOTICE.txt in places where I have a say in the matter. It is also rather universally recognized as text, even on systems that historically didn't use extensions on file names. (It also leaves room for .html versions of the same name, for even more excitement.) If you use the Apache-recommended Subversion config settings, it will correctly handle the eol-style for NOTICE and LICENSE, even without a file extension: http://www.apache.org/dev/svn-eol-style.txt -Rob Just observing. Not a recommendation. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Pedro F. Giffuni [mailto:giffu...@tutopia.com] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 18:56 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] start collecting the correct content for a NOTICE.txt file Hello juergen; I think the file should be named NOTICE (without the .txt extension): https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/ Cheers, Pedro.
Re: [LINUX-BUILD] problem with unoxml
Hi, Carl, Ariel, This looks like a recent change by hdu (on CC). He may have some good words on the subject. --/tj/ On 9/24/2011 00:33, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 01:12:18AM -0300, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: I can see that error too. This is the problem: * the sax module is a dependency of unoxml, see unoxml/prj/build.lst * solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so does not exist, though it should have been built in sax module. Looking there, the library is now named libsax.so instead of libsaxlx.so, see sax/unxlngx6.pro/lib; and is so copied to the solver. When checking for the dependencies, the library is not found; output of make -rd in unoxml: Considering target file `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so'. File `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so' does not exist. Looking for an implicit rule for `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so'. Trying pattern rule with stem `libsaxlx'. Found an implicit rule for `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so'. Finished prerequisites of target file `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so'. Must remake target `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so'. Invoking recipe from /mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solenv/gbuild/Library.mk:53 to update target `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so'. R=/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk S=$R/main O=$S/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro W=$O/workdir mkdir -p $O/lib/ /bin/cp --remove-destination --force --preserve=timestamps $O/lib/libsaxlx.so bin/cp: missing destination file operand after `/mnt/build/openoffice/apache/trunk/main/solver/340/unxlngx6.pro/lib/libsaxlx.so' Try `/bin/cp --help' for more information. libsaxlx.so does not exist, so make tries to build it with a gbuild recipe! Yes, the cp command is wrong, but that's not the root cause of the error. It looks libsax.so should be named libsaxlx.so and delivered to the solver with that name. IMO we should investigate why the name has changed. If I got it right, the problem is in solenv/inc/unxlngx.mk http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/solenv/inc/unxlngx.mk?r1=1162288r2=1174164diff_format=h DLLPOSTFIX= before DLLPOSTFIX=lx If the DLLPOSTFIX is changed there, I guess it should be changed also in solenv/gbuild/platform/linux.mk. Regards
Re: Starting a conversation on AOOo 4.0
I have no problem with some changes in the interface where they are helpful. For instance: The way that page styles are applied is very counter-intuitive. We get dozens of posts in the forums about how to make a document with a heading on all pages except the first, and also from people who select a page style for a page somewhere in the middle of a document and then find that it has been applied to the entire document. Page styles are really powerful and easy to use once you get the hang of the concept and of how they are implemented and applied, but until you get the hang of it, they can - and often do - drive you up the wall. So, a better Insert - manual break dialog box would be a big help - probably more text in it, like "Select the page style for the next page" instead of just "Style", would already help. Peter aka floris v Op 23-9-2011 16:08, Jürgen Schmidt schreef: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be wrote: On 23/09/2011 15:28, Rob Weir wrote: We don't want to upset that. On the other hand, most of our potential users are using MS Office, and they have radically changed their UI... Yes, with many pro's and con's but we still have the 1 milion question: Must aOO or/and LO be a copy of the MS Office and his UI ? mmh, no direct answer. I would prefer if we are trying to provide the best and most intuitive solution to fulfill a specific task or to make new features as easy as possible available. Simplicity combined with effectiveness is what counts in the end and what will bring us new users and make existing users happy. Juergen Greetz Fernand
Re: Starting a conversation on AOOo 4.0
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Shao Zhi Zhao zhaos...@cn.ibm.com wrote: hi, IBM symphony will contribute to Apache, it has good UI,it will be fit to your requirement. I wouldn't want to have AOOo with a Symphony UI, part of the reason that OOo has got so popular is because their familiar UI. There were many talks on how thanks to the ribbons, many people has moved from Office to OpenOffice.org. At the same time, I do think we need to improve our freshness but I wouldnt go as far as implementing a whole new UI just because. I would rather see this as an incremental change that will take some new concepts and apply them to the UI in OOo. In a web 2.0 age, too many changes usually pissed off most of the userbase. We know the facebooks cries everytime they change and is almost expected. I would even move to a more simplified version of AOOo when we try to unclutter rather than change. So how can we make users do more with less. A switch layout button would be nice, so users dont need to open a Page dialog or a style to change it. Something similar to Impress as you apply a background and a dialog ask, apply to all. That is just a usability improvement that we could think of adopting. thanks [image: Inactive hide details for Guy Waterval ---2011-09-23 01:30:32---Guy Waterval waterval@gmail.com]Guy Waterval ---2011-09-23 01:30:32---Guy Waterval waterval@gmail.com *Guy Waterval waterval@gmail.com* 2011-09-23 01:28 Please respond to ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org To ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, cc Subject Re: Starting a conversation on AOOo 4.0 Hi all, 2011/9/21 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org I don't want to distract us too much for the 3.4.0 work. There is a lot of work to do, mainly around the detailed work of IP review. However, I think we should have a parallel conversation, with project contributors as well as with users, about what we could do after that, in a major release. Perhaps time is coming to try to change the interface. We've now two projects LO and AOO which have the same look and it's perhaps not so good. I think a new look for AOO could give it a better identitiy and could be more attactive for the mass of the end users as the old one. But as I'm not a coder, I don't know if this could be easily realisable. Best regards gw -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org fingerprint: E62B CF77 1BEA 0749 C0B8 50B9 3DE6 A84A 68D0 72E6
Re: Starting a conversation on AOOo 4.0
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Tor Lillqvist t...@iki.fi wrote: many people most of the userbase We know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word So, Tor, what is your point of view on UI changes? -Rob --tml
Editorial Calendar for the project Blog
I've added a wiki page to track this. I'd like to see if can develop a cadence of a new post every two weeks. This should not be too hard if we have a few volunteers to draft the posts. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Blog The target audiences are generally external to this project and those who are subscribed to the ooo-dev list. So think of the larger Apache community, OpenOffice users, the larger OOo community, the press, etc. Please take a look and sign up for a future post. Or even just suggest a future top and maybe someone will volunteer to write it up. Some possible future topics could be: - relaunch of the support forums - how to report a bug - high level description of the migration effort - high level description of the IP review process - review of the various project-related mailing lists and the transition to Apache. Where do users go for what? -Rob
Updating the status page
I finally got around to figuring out how to update our podling status page: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html It isn't really too difficult. Not as easy as updating a wiki or a web page via the CMS. But is certainly doable, especially with a Linux install. My short summary, distilled from the podling guide [1] Check out the website source: svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk incubator cd incubator/site-author/projects Then edit the openofficeorg.xml file. Then go back up to the incubator dir and run ant. If no errors then check in your changes: svn commit Note that you will be checking in two files: the source in incubator/site-author/projects as well as the generated html in incubator/site-publish/projects One that is done you need to check out the changed html into the production website: ssh people.apache.org cd /www/incubator.apache.org svn update When I did that the changes were not evident immediately on the website.Maybe there is some caching involved. It would be good if a few other PPMC members gained familiarity with these steps so we can help keep this status page up to date. And all PPMC members should check that page and understand the kinds of things we should be tracking, and remind us when we've done something that should be mentioned there. In theory the status of the clutch page[2] is updated to reflect changes in the status report, such as new committers or existence of an issue tracker. But this did not appear to happen. -Rob [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html#Edit+your+project+status+report [2] http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
Mailing lists we don't seem to be using
I noticed that we have three project mailing lists that have received zero posts. ooo-issues @ incubator.apache.org --- This list has been around for 103 days, and has 46 subscribers. But no posts. Shouldn't our Bugzilla notifications be going there? Are we not generating notifications? Or are they going to the legacy OOo list? I recommend that we send the notifications to ooo-issues. ooo-notifications @ incubator.apache.org -- 103 days old and 49 subscribers. Again, no posts. Not sure what this is for. ooo-general-ja @ incubator.apache.org -- Only 11 days old, with 4 subscribers. But no posts. Hirano-san, did you know that the list you requested is up now? -Rob
Re: Mailing lists we don't seem to be using
Hi Rob, Thanks for this review. On Sep 24, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Rob Weir wrote: I noticed that we have three project mailing lists that have received zero posts. ooo-issues @ incubator.apache.org --- This list has been around for 103 days, and has 46 subscribers. But no posts. Shouldn't our Bugzilla notifications be going there? Are we not generating notifications? Or are they going to the legacy OOo list? I recommend that we send the notifications to ooo-issues. +1 - it is an important change to make. ooo-notifications @ incubator.apache.org -- 103 days old and 49 subscribers. Again, no posts. Not sure what this is for. From the proposal: * `ooo-notificati...@incubator.apache.org` - for continuous build/test notifications Regards, Dave ooo-general-ja @ incubator.apache.org -- Only 11 days old, with 4 subscribers. But no posts. Hirano-san, did you know that the list you requested is up now? -Rob
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
On 22/09/2011 Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. Whatever this is, it is widely unrelated to the dictionary currently included in OpenOffice.org 3.3. The best starting point for it is http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-it (note that the latest release is more recent than OOo 3.3 and was supposed to be included in OOo 3.4 as expected to be released by Oracle). The current version is GPL3 and it has a few copyright holders (including Gianluca and myself), but we are sure that some of the copyright holders will never give permission to relicense their work. But we need to open, at due time, a dedicated discussion on writing aids before saying that GPL dictionaries cannot be used. Shipping an older Italian dictionary (or no Italian dictionary at all) would be a huge regression and it would definitely lead to users abandoning OpenOffice.org in scores, and to community members feeling frustrated because their work of years is removed from OpenOffice.org just for the stubbornness of one copyright holder opposing the license change. Workarounds can surely be found (like OOo offering to download GPL dictionaries upon installation or first run) and I'd urge to consider them before risking to alienate entire native-lang communities. Regards, Andrea.
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
2011/9/24 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org But we need to open, at due time, a dedicated discussion on writing aids before saying that GPL dictionaries cannot be used. Shipping an older Italian dictionary (or no Italian dictionary at all) would be a huge regression and it would definitely lead to users abandoning OpenOffice.org in scores, and to community members feeling frustrated because their work of years is removed from OpenOffice.org just for the stubbornness of one copyright holder opposing the license change. Workarounds can surely be found (like OOo offering to download GPL dictionaries upon installation or first run) and I'd urge to consider them before risking to alienate entire native-lang communities. +1. To distribute a word processor without a working spell checker will be something really close to a suicide for the project. Solving this issue as soon as possible is a must, I think. Cheers Ricardo
Re: Updating the status page
Hi Rob, I think the svn co should be https instead of http for committers. I just went through the steps and added links to the monthly incubator status reports in that section. They are links to the page that includes all projects for the month [1]. The project page updated after about 30 minutes. I for one have not been back to the status page since the incubation started. We sure have a lot of pages to update :) There may be some items under 'Mentor-related responsibility/oversight' that may be completed? I would be glad to do additional updates if anyone sees anything more or scheduled things like the status reports. [1] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/August2011 Best regards, Carl On 09/24/2011 03:27 PM, Rob Weir wrote: I finally got around to figuring out how to update our podling status page: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html It isn't really too difficult. Not as easy as updating a wiki or a web page via the CMS. But is certainly doable, especially with a Linux install. My short summary, distilled from the podling guide [1] Check out the website source: svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk incubator cd incubator/site-author/projects Then edit the openofficeorg.xml file. Then go back up to the incubator dir and run ant. If no errors then check in your changes: svn commit Note that you will be checking in two files: the source in incubator/site-author/projects as well as the generated html in incubator/site-publish/projects One that is done you need to check out the changed html into the production website: ssh people.apache.org cd /www/incubator.apache.org svn update When I did that the changes were not evident immediately on the website.Maybe there is some caching involved. It would be good if a few other PPMC members gained familiarity with these steps so we can help keep this status page up to date. And all PPMC members should check that page and understand the kinds of things we should be tracking, and remind us when we've done something that should be mentioned there. In theory the status of the clutch page[2] is updated to reflect changes in the status report, such as new committers or existence of an issue tracker. But this did not appear to happen. -Rob [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html#Edit+your+project+status+report [2] http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
Re: [LINUX-BUILD] problem with unoxml
Ariel, I will test it on my build. Thanks, Carl On 09/24/2011 07:36 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 08:57:26AM -0400, TJ Frazier wrote: Hi, Carl, Ariel, This looks like a recent change by hdu (on CC). He may have some good words on the subject. --/tj/ I guess he read this list, no need to CC him If I got it right, the problem is in solenv/inc/unxlngx.mk http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/solenv/inc/unxlngx.mk?r1=1162288r2=1174164diff_format=h DLLPOSTFIX= before DLLPOSTFIX=lx If the DLLPOSTFIX is changed there, I guess it should be changed also in solenv/gbuild/platform/linux.mk. http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?diff_format=hview=revisionrevision=1174164 emptied almost every DLLPOSTFIX in solenv/inc/ There are three DLLPOSTFIXes remaining: * trunk/main/solenv/inc/os2.mk http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/solenv/inc/os2.mk?annotate=1174164diff_format=hpathrev=1174164#l237 http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/solenv/inc/os2.mk?annotate=1174164diff_format=hpathrev=1174164#l318 * trunk/main/solenv/inc/wntgcci.mk http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/solenv/inc/wntgcci.mk?annotate=1174164diff_format=hpathrev=1174164#l185 * gb_Library_OOOEXT should be modified in solenv/gbuild/platform/*.mk to reflect the changes in the gbuild env. A path is attached, I only tested it on Linux x86-64 Regards
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com wrote: Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. With respect to Hunspell vs. Myspell, there is still no decision and I thinkthat will have to wait until the Oracle SGA is in. HunSpell is copyleft so we cannot include it. We could include MySpelland the free (less-restricted) dictionaries we can get and have an optionfor Hunspell, or we could make Myspell an extension. HunSpell code is tri-licensed under GPL/LGPL/MPL. If I understand corectly, Apache considers MPL 1.1 to be weak copyleft and we have some limited ways (as a binary of using it in our releases. See here for details: http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b Individual dictionaries, however, can have their own license as you know. So there may be some that we cannot include in the release, but we can still point the user to. Both would work for me, I just wanted to make sure MySpell could bepreserved before the Oracle OpenOffice site disappears. cheers, Pedro. --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Gianluca Turconi in...@letturefantastiche.com wrote: From: Gianluca Turconi in...@letturefantastiche.com Subject: Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, giffu...@tutopia.com Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 10:41 AM 2011/9/22 Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com The case of the italian support is indeed special, and is something I am particularly interested in. The linguistico project seems to be particularly political: they have this long discourse on how OpenSource is evil, free is good. Maybe the author of the original ispell dictionary is more condescending. I'm the original author of the Italian OOo dictionary and I wouldn't have any issue in re-licensing the original MySpell dictionary as far as it is included in a AOOo user-oriented binary release, if and when it will be released. However, the Italian dictionary has a 10-years long history of improvement under LGPL/GPL and several different co-author. The current version is simply a lot better than the original one whose copyright rights I own. So, the re-licensing would be, IMO, just a regression. Of course, a less complete dictionary is always better than nothing, from a user point of view. ;-) However, I haven't understood yet (this list is sometimes really overwhelming), what linguistic tools will be used in AOO: 1) MySpell or Hunspell? 2) for hyphenation? Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
+1 I don't want to send Apache back to the spell checker in OOo 2.x, and the LO guys have made a nice job creating independent Hunspell+lang dictionaries already. What I am doing with MySpell is just making sure it doesn't disappear so that if someone needs an alternative he/she/them won't have to start from scratch. FWIW, today I made my first and final release :-P. Pedro. --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Andrea Pescetti wrote: ... On 22/09/2011 Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. Whatever this is, it is widely unrelated to the dictionary currently included in OpenOffice.org 3.3. The best starting point for it is http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-it (note that the latest release is more recent than OOo 3.3 and was supposed to be included in OOo 3.4 as expected to be released by Oracle). The current version is GPL3 and it has a few copyright holders (including Gianluca and myself), but we are sure that some of the copyright holders will never give permission to relicense their work. But we need to open, at due time, a dedicated discussion on writing aids before saying that GPL dictionaries cannot be used. Shipping an older Italian dictionary (or no Italian dictionary at all) would be a huge regression and it would definitely lead to users abandoning OpenOffice.org in scores, and to community members feeling frustrated because their work of years is removed from OpenOffice.org just for the stubbornness of one copyright holder opposing the license change. Workarounds can surely be found (like OOo offering to download GPL dictionaries upon installation or first run) and I'd urge to consider them before risking to alienate entire native-lang communities. Regards, Andrea.
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: ... HunSpell code is tri-licensed under GPL/LGPL/MPL. That particular licensing scheme is rather weird: LGPL implies that it can become GPL so you could just say dual licensed LGPL/MPL, and then, once you make something pluggable, the GPL basically becomes unenforceable but let's not get into that right now ;). If I understand corectly, Apache considers MPL 1.1 to be weak copyleft and we have some limited ways (as a binary of using it in our releases. Yes we can. I am not sure what a company would think about it though: some lawyers are more strict than others. What does IBM use in Lotus Symphony? Individual dictionaries, however, can have their own license as you know. So there may be some that we cannot include in the release, but we can still point the user to. It looks like we might have a bunch of them that we can relicense to AL2. We will have to wait for the SGA to know for sure but if it does happen, it is a nice treasure that we should take advantage of. Pedro.
Re: Starting a conversation on AOOo 4.0
So, Tor, what is your point of view on UI changes? I am all in favour of changing the UI, but I am fully aware that I am not an expert in UI issues, and don't claim to know how it should be changed. (Also, I am a programmer, not an office software user; I actually use LibreOffice (or OOo) for real work quite seldom.) I don't think generalizations and well-known truths are trustworthy. Especially, one should be careful of falling into the trap of claiming some UI is intuitive. It is fairly natural that if one has used Phillips head screws for a decade, Torx head screws feel unintuitive. Or that if one has used GIMP for a decade, Photoshop feels unintuitive. --tml
