Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On Saturday, May 26, 2012, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com javascript:;wrote: Hello all, Thanks for input. Here is what I understand the community is saying: AOO community = team [UX] = mailing list topic prefix User experience - design and development topic related to the end user experience People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a period of time Pronoun I is preferred to we Got it. This makes sense. I'm still adapting to the Apache way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback and guidance. Kevin, I think you've got it! Yes, Apache is much flatter structure than what you (many of us) were used to previously. The major advantage that I have found is that everyone gets to know what everyone else is working on. It may seem daunting at times, but it has a lot of advantages -- mutual decision making giving everyone a say, no surprise actions by one group over another. One way to think of it: the natural evolution of a team is to start with common interests, then to form a self-identity around that common interest and team, an us versus them world view, then for a formal leadership hierarchy to arise to manage and coordinate the various boxes. This is a common structure that we see throughout the world, from armies to corporations to governments to religions. The legacy OpenOffice.org project did this as well, and to support it had hundreds of mailing lists for the various projects, its councils and steering committees, its designated leads and deputies, etc. On the one hand this is a very efficient way of doing this, if efficiency is the primary goal. It is also great for those who get in on the ground floor. For initial stakeholders, who get embedded in leadership positions, this is a wonderful model. But I think it shows more tensions as the project grows, and more people join, and their goals conflict with the views of the legacy leaders. A hierarchical organization is challenged when dealing with this. And I think such organizations are also challenged with developing innovation. KG01 Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. Regards, Kevin In any case, self-identification is not a bad thing. I think it is great to say I am focused on Foo. The risk comes when I try to draw a box around a group of individuals and say We are the Foo team, and by implication the others in the project are not, or their opinions are less valued in these matters, or they are consulted less, etc. Now this does not mean that there are not de facto leaders and de facto teams. Everyone knows who has the greatest expertise on the website, or the download scripts. But no one has a title of web master or distribution lead. It comes from taking the lead. So I would not be surprised if there is a small group of contributors who develop the reputation for being UX experts and whose guidance is automatically sought on related issues. In fact this is happening already. But this can occur without designating teams or team leads, drawing boxes around groups of individuals, etc. -Rob UX is of course critical to the success of Apache OpenOffice, so I think you'll find everyone here has an interest in this topic whether they participate in the UX discussions a lot or a little. Regards, Kevin A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :) On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote: Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like that, if we a decision must be made in the end. On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: Hello all, Thanks for input. Here is what I understand the community is saying: AOO community = team [UX] = mailing list topic prefix User experience - design and development topic related to the end user experience People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a period of time Pronoun I is preferred to we Got it. This makes sense. I'm still adapting to the Apache way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback and guidance. Kevin, I think you've got it! Yes, Apache is much flatter structure than what you (many of us) were used to previously. The major advantage that I have found is that everyone gets to know what everyone else is working on. It may seem daunting at times, but it has a lot of advantages -- mutual decision making giving everyone a say, no surprise actions by one group over another. One way to think of it: the natural evolution of a team is to start with common interests, then to form a self-identity around that common interest and team, an us versus them world view, then for a formal leadership hierarchy to arise to manage and coordinate the various boxes. This is a common structure that we see throughout the world, from armies to corporations to governments to religions. The legacy OpenOffice.org project did this as well, and to support it had hundreds of mailing lists for the various projects, its councils and steering committees, its designated leads and deputies, etc. On the one hand this is a very efficient way of doing this, if efficiency is the primary goal. It is also great for those who get in on the ground floor. For initial stakeholders, who get embedded in leadership positions, this is a wonderful model. But I think it shows more tensions as the project grows, and more people join, and their goals conflict with the views of the legacy leaders. A hierarchical organization is challenged when dealing with this. And I think such organizations are also challenged with developing innovation. In any case, self-identification is not a bad thing. I think it is great to say I am focused on Foo. The risk comes when I try to draw a box around a group of individuals and say We are the Foo team, and by implication the others in the project are not, or their opinions are less valued in these matters, or they are consulted less, etc. Now this does not mean that there are not de facto leaders and de facto teams. Everyone knows who has the greatest expertise on the website, or the download scripts. But no one has a title of web master or distribution lead. It comes from taking the lead. So I would not be surprised if there is a small group of contributors who develop the reputation for being UX experts and whose guidance is automatically sought on related issues. In fact this is happening already. But this can occur without designating teams or team leads, drawing boxes around groups of individuals, etc. -Rob UX is of course critical to the success of Apache OpenOffice, so I think you'll find everyone here has an interest in this topic whether they participate in the UX discussions a lot or a little. Regards, Kevin A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :) On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote: Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like that, if we a decision must be made in the end. On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hi. 2012/5/24 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org I think I got your point. You're right. There's no need to identify some people as a group. But, in fact, there are some groups, for example, the infra group, cws group, brazilian volunteers group, italian volunteers group, and so on. That's because it's needed some admin rights to do their tasks, or because regional identification, not because they are separated groups. Giving my opinion in this list, I'm giving it individually and not in the name of the groups I can identify myself to. At least, I understand this way. Correct me If I understood it wrong. +1 2012/5/24 Yong Lin Ma mayo...@apache.org The bar for UX design of such a product is very low. The prefix UX is but obvious and organized to know what the interest and subject of the email. Albino
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: Hello all, Thanks for input. Here is what I understand the community is saying: AOO community = team [UX] = mailing list topic prefix User experience - design and development topic related to the end user experience People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a period of time Pronoun I is preferred to we Got it. This makes sense. I'm still adapting to the Apache way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback and guidance. Kevin, I think you've got it! Yes, Apache is much flatter structure than what you (many of us) were used to previously. The major advantage that I have found is that everyone gets to know what everyone else is working on. It may seem daunting at times, but it has a lot of advantages -- mutual decision making giving everyone a say, no surprise actions by one group over another. UX is of course critical to the success of Apache OpenOffice, so I think you'll find everyone here has an interest in this topic whether they participate in the UX discussions a lot or a little. Regards, Kevin A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :) On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote: Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like that, if we a decision must be made in the end. On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst -- MzK The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. -- Mark Twain
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? It depends on who are managing that page. In general
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like that, if we a decision must be made in the end. On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hello all, Thanks for input. Here is what I understand the community is saying: AOO community = team [UX] = mailing list topic prefix User experience - design and development topic related to the end user experience People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a period of time Pronoun I is preferred to we Got it. This makes sense. I'm still adapting to the Apache way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback and guidance. Regards, Kevin A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :) On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote: Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like that, if we a decision must be made in the end. On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? It depends on who are managing that page. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast.
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? It depends on who are managing that page. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take
[UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Erik, I think that some extra text was included in your URL. Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Erik, Good stuff. Will do. Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. Just my 2 ct Juergen Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hiranokhir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Jurgen, Thanks for your note. While I agree that such a list may not scale, nor accurately reflect the broader contribution, there is much to do, and little structure is in place. The UX list is simply an attempt to build some momentum, and get an idea of who is interested in reaching in and working on some UX-specific tasks. I should note that by community members, I mean people who are keen on working on AOO UX tasks. It was suggested recently, that the term team should not be used in such contexts. Let's try it out. It is low cost, and it will help the UX program get up and running. Regards, Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.comwrote: On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. Just my 2 ct Juergen Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_** Experience_Community_Membershttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hiranokhir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_** OpenOffice_User_Experiencehttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_** OpenOffice_User_Experienceforhttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_** Experience_Community_Memberstohttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On May 18, 2012, at 6:22 AM, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. Yes, please call it a team or interest group. We do not want to split the community into parts - the project is ONE community. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. Ditto. Regards, Dave If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hi. 2012/5/18 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. True. :) I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. +1 Albino
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be done. That means that people have to convince other people from their ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their own. The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that somebody will implement it. Juergen Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? It depends on who are managing that page. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. I agree and it is and
