RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All
I'm not going to dig up the relevant texts. Here's a recap: 1. I noticed that you put Apache notices in each and every text file you have committed to the ooo SVN. 2. I asked if that was a requirement or simply your personal practice? I must not have asked it very well. Here is the very top of my message: "Simple version of the question: Is your putting notices on everything your personal practice or is it a requirement that this be done with all textual artifacts where notices are possible?" 3. Rob (not you) answered my message by pointing out where the instructions for use of the Apache License by Apache authors were. 4. On Rob's reply, below Rob's link to those instructions, you added in-line, "Right. Whenever possible." 5. I took that as my answer. And somewhere on this thread I thought I'd said as much. 6. I posted the little ditty about getting answers to questions not asked because the thread kept accumulating more advice after my question was already answered to my satisfaction. There was nothing wrong with the answers. They just weren't responsive to my question. (And I was a little put out that the responders thought I didn't know that already. I took that as a reflection on the poor quality of my question as well, that it was taken as ignorance that I do not possess. I have other ignorance, but not that.) The oddness about the place of your response for me was because you put it below Rob's response and not directly after my question, so I had to interpolate. I have a good-enough answer. If that is still obtuse for you, let's just forget the whole thing, OK? - Dennis PS: I just added Copyright and Apache License notices everywhere I could in the SVN of my project, just the way you do in .txt files, .sh (or .bat in my case), etc. I did it while downloading a new version of some software that takes over 6 GB total. Now I think I'll start reading Jack McDevitt's "Echo" while I am waiting for more of the download set to complete. -Original Message- From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 21:56 To: dennis.hamil...@acm.org Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All Geezus. You are continuing to be obtuse. I have *no* idea what you're talking about. On Jul 29, 2011 9:21 AM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" wrote: > Greg, your short reply was completely sufficient. > > It was all I needed and it answered the question that I asked. > > It was a little odd that you answered it where you did, but I got the answer. > > The question was about a practice that I observed you following, not about > ALv2 nor the difference between work contributed to Apache and when > contributing work to a non-Apache project under an ALv2 license. The gist of > my note is about the apparent social dynamics of answers to unasked > questions. I've been noticing how often that happens on other dev lists I > follow and I was amused that it happened here with a question I asked. > > - Dennis > > -----Original Message- > From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 02:36 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All > > It seems there is some kind of subtext here, but it is so obtuse that I have > no idea what is going on. > > So: was my short reply useful, or not? > > And note that my reply was also given as an augment to Rob's link to source > header application. > > Dennis: be clear; *what* are you trying to say? I cannot read *any* takeaway > from below. > > -g > On Jul 28, 2011 7:44 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" > wrote: >> There's a story, perhaps apocryphal (i.e., like the bicycle shed story), > about Tom Watson approaching a Sr.VP for Human Resources in a hallway and > asking how college students get summer jobs at IBM. The Sr.VP said he'd get > back to him. >> >> I will say no more. You might imagine how this went South when the only > thing Watson wanted to know was to what to tell a neighbor whose son wanted > to apply for one of those jobs. The more experience you have in corporate > life (and on some developer lists), you can imagine where this might have > ended up instead. (Serious analysis and study, crash project, charts, > slides, big conference room presentation, etc.) >> >> However, Greg answered my question in his first reply on this thread: >> >> "Right. Whenever possible." >> >> It is useful to learn about RAT and the committers tools, although it > doesn't apply to my situation. My question was not about how to make the > notice, it was about how Gr
RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All
"Answered where you did" ... huh? What do you mean? Where, what? Please speak explicitly. On Jul 29, 2011 9:56 PM, "Greg Stein" wrote: > Geezus. You are continuing to be obtuse. I have *no* idea what you're > talking about. > On Jul 29, 2011 9:21 AM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" > wrote: >> Greg, your short reply was completely sufficient. >> >> It was all I needed and it answered the question that I asked. >> >> It was a little odd that you answered it where you did, but I got the > answer. >> >> The question was about a practice that I observed you following, not about > ALv2 nor the difference between work contributed to Apache and when > contributing work to a non-Apache project under an ALv2 license. The gist of > my note is about the apparent social dynamics of answers to unasked > questions. I've been noticing how often that happens on other dev lists I > follow and I was amused that it happened here with a question I asked. >> >> - Dennis >> >> -Original Message----- >> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 02:36 >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All >> >> It seems there is some kind of subtext here, but it is so obtuse that I > have >> no idea what is going on. >> >> So: was my short reply useful, or not? >> >> And note that my reply was also given as an augment to Rob's link to > source >> header application. >> >> Dennis: be clear; *what* are you trying to say? I cannot read *any* > takeaway >> from below. >> >> -g >> On Jul 28, 2011 7:44 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" >> wrote: >>> There's a story, perhaps apocryphal (i.e., like the bicycle shed story), >> about Tom Watson approaching a Sr.VP for Human Resources in a hallway and >> asking how college students get summer jobs at IBM. The Sr.VP said he'd > get >> back to him. >>> >>> I will say no more. You might imagine how this went South when the only >> thing Watson wanted to know was to what to tell a neighbor whose son > wanted >> to apply for one of those jobs. The more experience you have in corporate >> life (and on some developer lists), you can imagine where this might have >> ended up instead. (Serious analysis and study, crash project, charts, >> slides, big conference room presentation, etc.) >>> >>> However, Greg answered my question in his first reply on this thread: >>> >>> "Right. Whenever possible." >>> >>> It is useful to learn about RAT and the committers tools, although it >> doesn't apply to my situation. My question was not about how to make the >> notice, it was about how Greg seemed to stamp it onto every textual > artifact >> he committed to SVN. >>> >>> Two lessons: >>> 1. I need to be careful about answering the (actual) question being > asked. >>> 2. When I ask questions, I need to be very clear what the question is > (and >> still risking that won't be the question answered). >>> >>> - Dennis >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org] >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 19:19 >>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code >>> >>> Apache RAT is in the incubator, and some projects use it to do source >>> code license checking and the like: >>> >>> http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ >>> >>> Note that the committers repository has two directories with other, much >>> simpler (but possibly useful) tools about checking or changing licenses >>> or other standard chunks of text in masses of source code: >>> >>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers >>> >>> /relicense >>> and >>> /tools >>> >>> - Shane >>> >>
RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All
Geezus. You are continuing to be obtuse. I have *no* idea what you're talking about. On Jul 29, 2011 9:21 AM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" wrote: > Greg, your short reply was completely sufficient. > > It was all I needed and it answered the question that I asked. > > It was a little odd that you answered it where you did, but I got the answer. > > The question was about a practice that I observed you following, not about ALv2 nor the difference between work contributed to Apache and when contributing work to a non-Apache project under an ALv2 license. The gist of my note is about the apparent social dynamics of answers to unasked questions. I've been noticing how often that happens on other dev lists I follow and I was amused that it happened here with a question I asked. > > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 02:36 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All > > It seems there is some kind of subtext here, but it is so obtuse that I have > no idea what is going on. > > So: was my short reply useful, or not? > > And note that my reply was also given as an augment to Rob's link to source > header application. > > Dennis: be clear; *what* are you trying to say? I cannot read *any* takeaway > from below. > > -g > On Jul 28, 2011 7:44 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" > wrote: >> There's a story, perhaps apocryphal (i.e., like the bicycle shed story), > about Tom Watson approaching a Sr.VP for Human Resources in a hallway and > asking how college students get summer jobs at IBM. The Sr.VP said he'd get > back to him. >> >> I will say no more. You might imagine how this went South when the only > thing Watson wanted to know was to what to tell a neighbor whose son wanted > to apply for one of those jobs. The more experience you have in corporate > life (and on some developer lists), you can imagine where this might have > ended up instead. (Serious analysis and study, crash project, charts, > slides, big conference room presentation, etc.) >> >> However, Greg answered my question in his first reply on this thread: >> >> "Right. Whenever possible." >> >> It is useful to learn about RAT and the committers tools, although it > doesn't apply to my situation. My question was not about how to make the > notice, it was about how Greg seemed to stamp it onto every textual artifact > he committed to SVN. >> >> Two lessons: >> 1. I need to be careful about answering the (actual) question being asked. >> 2. When I ask questions, I need to be very clear what the question is (and > still risking that won't be the question answered). >> >> - Dennis >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org] >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 19:19 >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code >> >> Apache RAT is in the incubator, and some projects use it to do source >> code license checking and the like: >> >> http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ >> >> Note that the committers repository has two directories with other, much >> simpler (but possibly useful) tools about checking or changing licenses >> or other standard chunks of text in masses of source code: >> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers >> >> /relicense >> and >> /tools >> >> - Shane >> >
RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All
Greg, your short reply was completely sufficient. It was all I needed and it answered the question that I asked. It was a little odd that you answered it where you did, but I got the answer. The question was about a practice that I observed you following, not about ALv2 nor the difference between work contributed to Apache and when contributing work to a non-Apache project under an ALv2 license. The gist of my note is about the apparent social dynamics of answers to unasked questions. I've been noticing how often that happens on other dev lists I follow and I was amused that it happened here with a question I asked. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 02:36 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All It seems there is some kind of subtext here, but it is so obtuse that I have no idea what is going on. So: was my short reply useful, or not? And note that my reply was also given as an augment to Rob's link to source header application. Dennis: be clear; *what* are you trying to say? I cannot read *any* takeaway from below. -g On Jul 28, 2011 7:44 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" wrote: > There's a story, perhaps apocryphal (i.e., like the bicycle shed story), about Tom Watson approaching a Sr.VP for Human Resources in a hallway and asking how college students get summer jobs at IBM. The Sr.VP said he'd get back to him. > > I will say no more. You might imagine how this went South when the only thing Watson wanted to know was to what to tell a neighbor whose son wanted to apply for one of those jobs. The more experience you have in corporate life (and on some developer lists), you can imagine where this might have ended up instead. (Serious analysis and study, crash project, charts, slides, big conference room presentation, etc.) > > However, Greg answered my question in his first reply on this thread: > > "Right. Whenever possible." > > It is useful to learn about RAT and the committers tools, although it doesn't apply to my situation. My question was not about how to make the notice, it was about how Greg seemed to stamp it onto every textual artifact he committed to SVN. > > Two lessons: > 1. I need to be careful about answering the (actual) question being asked. > 2. When I ask questions, I need to be very clear what the question is (and still risking that won't be the question answered). > > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org] > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 19:19 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code > > Apache RAT is in the incubator, and some projects use it to do source > code license checking and the like: > > http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ > > Note that the committers repository has two directories with other, much > simpler (but possibly useful) tools about checking or changing licenses > or other standard chunks of text in masses of source code: > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers > > /relicense > and > /tools > > - Shane >
RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All
It seems there is some kind of subtext here, but it is so obtuse that I have no idea what is going on. So: was my short reply useful, or not? And note that my reply was also given as an augment to Rob's link to source header application. Dennis: be clear; *what* are you trying to say? I cannot read *any* takeaway from below. -g On Jul 28, 2011 7:44 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" wrote: > There's a story, perhaps apocryphal (i.e., like the bicycle shed story), about Tom Watson approaching a Sr.VP for Human Resources in a hallway and asking how college students get summer jobs at IBM. The Sr.VP said he'd get back to him. > > I will say no more. You might imagine how this went South when the only thing Watson wanted to know was to what to tell a neighbor whose son wanted to apply for one of those jobs. The more experience you have in corporate life (and on some developer lists), you can imagine where this might have ended up instead. (Serious analysis and study, crash project, charts, slides, big conference room presentation, etc.) > > However, Greg answered my question in his first reply on this thread: > > "Right. Whenever possible." > > It is useful to learn about RAT and the committers tools, although it doesn't apply to my situation. My question was not about how to make the notice, it was about how Greg seemed to stamp it onto every textual artifact he committed to SVN. > > Two lessons: > 1. I need to be careful about answering the (actual) question being asked. > 2. When I ask questions, I need to be very clear what the question is (and still risking that won't be the question answered). > > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org] > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 19:19 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code > > Apache RAT is in the incubator, and some projects use it to do source > code license checking and the like: > > http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ > > Note that the committers repository has two directories with other, much > simpler (but possibly useful) tools about checking or changing licenses > or other standard chunks of text in masses of source code: > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers > > /relicense > and > /tools > > - Shane >
RE: Q: Notices in Code - Answered and Thanks Y'All
There's a story, perhaps apocryphal (i.e., like the bicycle shed story), about Tom Watson approaching a Sr.VP for Human Resources in a hallway and asking how college students get summer jobs at IBM. The Sr.VP said he'd get back to him. I will say no more. You might imagine how this went South when the only thing Watson wanted to know was to what to tell a neighbor whose son wanted to apply for one of those jobs. The more experience you have in corporate life (and on some developer lists), you can imagine where this might have ended up instead. (Serious analysis and study, crash project, charts, slides, big conference room presentation, etc.) However, Greg answered my question in his first reply on this thread: "Right. Whenever possible." It is useful to learn about RAT and the committers tools, although it doesn't apply to my situation. My question was not about how to make the notice, it was about how Greg seemed to stamp it onto every textual artifact he committed to SVN. Two lessons: 1. I need to be careful about answering the (actual) question being asked. 2. When I ask questions, I need to be very clear what the question is (and still risking that won't be the question answered). - Dennis -Original Message- From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 19:19 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code Apache RAT is in the incubator, and some projects use it to do source code license checking and the like: http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ Note that the committers repository has two directories with other, much simpler (but possibly useful) tools about checking or changing licenses or other standard chunks of text in masses of source code: https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers /relicense and /tools - Shane
Re: Q: Notices in Code
Apache RAT is in the incubator, and some projects use it to do source code license checking and the like: http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ Note that the committers repository has two directories with other, much simpler (but possibly useful) tools about checking or changing licenses or other standard chunks of text in masses of source code: https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers /relicense and /tools - Shane
Re: Q: Notices in Code
On Jul 28, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > My question is not about the code developed at ASF but the one for folks "own > use" of the Apache license. > > I assume that the same applies because you'd want to see those if the code > were donated to Apache. > > I will take on the practice. The source headers page [1] links to instructions on applying the Apache License to one's own sources. [2] [1] http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html [2] http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html#apply Regards, Dave > > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 13:06 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Cc: dennis.hamil...@acm.org > Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code > > On Jul 28, 2011 12:44 PM, "Rob Weir" wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton >> wrote: >>> Greg, >>> >>> Simple version of the question: Is your putting notices on everything > your personal practice or is it a requirement that this be done with all > textual artifacts where notices are possible? >>> >>> - Dennis >>> >>> LONGER VERSION >>> >>> I looked over the ooo/trunk/tools/dev/ repository and noticed that you > put Apache notices on all of your files, including .txt and .sh. >>> >>> I have been setting up forensic tools on a different repository that I > happen to be the sole committer for, and I wanted to stage things so that > they could be cleanly transferred/granted to Apache if that became desirable > at some point. I am being careful with category A third-party code, not > using any other kind, and putting everything else and the combined works > under an Apache license. >>> >>> Is it a rigorous requirement to put Apache notices on all textual files > that I am placing under the Apache license? (I have test data that, by its > nature, I can't do that with, but I can do so on the containers and > descriptive texts about that data.) >>> >> >> Does this page answer your question? >> >> http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html > > Right. Whenever possible. > > We have a tool called RAT (no link handy right now) that will help identify > files missing a header. We can start running that later, after we get things > building. > > Cheers, > -g >
RE: Q: Notices in Code
My question is not about the code developed at ASF but the one for folks "own use" of the Apache license. I assume that the same applies because you'd want to see those if the code were donated to Apache. I will take on the practice. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Greg Stein [mailto:gst...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 13:06 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: Re: Q: Notices in Code On Jul 28, 2011 12:44 PM, "Rob Weir" wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton > wrote: > > Greg, > > > > Simple version of the question: Is your putting notices on everything your personal practice or is it a requirement that this be done with all textual artifacts where notices are possible? > > > > - Dennis > > > > LONGER VERSION > > > > I looked over the ooo/trunk/tools/dev/ repository and noticed that you put Apache notices on all of your files, including .txt and .sh. > > > > I have been setting up forensic tools on a different repository that I happen to be the sole committer for, and I wanted to stage things so that they could be cleanly transferred/granted to Apache if that became desirable at some point. I am being careful with category A third-party code, not using any other kind, and putting everything else and the combined works under an Apache license. > > > > Is it a rigorous requirement to put Apache notices on all textual files that I am placing under the Apache license? (I have test data that, by its nature, I can't do that with, but I can do so on the containers and descriptive texts about that data.) > > > > Does this page answer your question? > > http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html Right. Whenever possible. We have a tool called RAT (no link handy right now) that will help identify files missing a header. We can start running that later, after we get things building. Cheers, -g
Re: Q: Notices in Code
On Jul 28, 2011 12:44 PM, "Rob Weir" wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton > wrote: > > Greg, > > > > Simple version of the question: Is your putting notices on everything your personal practice or is it a requirement that this be done with all textual artifacts where notices are possible? > > > > - Dennis > > > > LONGER VERSION > > > > I looked over the ooo/trunk/tools/dev/ repository and noticed that you put Apache notices on all of your files, including .txt and .sh. > > > > I have been setting up forensic tools on a different repository that I happen to be the sole committer for, and I wanted to stage things so that they could be cleanly transferred/granted to Apache if that became desirable at some point. I am being careful with category A third-party code, not using any other kind, and putting everything else and the combined works under an Apache license. > > > > Is it a rigorous requirement to put Apache notices on all textual files that I am placing under the Apache license? (I have test data that, by its nature, I can't do that with, but I can do so on the containers and descriptive texts about that data.) > > > > Does this page answer your question? > > http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html Right. Whenever possible. We have a tool called RAT (no link handy right now) that will help identify files missing a header. We can start running that later, after we get things building. Cheers, -g
Re: Q: Notices in Code
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > Greg, > > Simple version of the question: Is your putting notices on everything your > personal practice or is it a requirement that this be done with all textual > artifacts where notices are possible? > > - Dennis > > LONGER VERSION > > I looked over the ooo/trunk/tools/dev/ repository and noticed that you put > Apache notices on all of your files, including .txt and .sh. > > I have been setting up forensic tools on a different repository that I happen > to be the sole committer for, and I wanted to stage things so that they could > be cleanly transferred/granted to Apache if that became desirable at some > point. I am being careful with category A third-party code, not using any > other kind, and putting everything else and the combined works under an > Apache license. > > Is it a rigorous requirement to put Apache notices on all textual files that > I am placing under the Apache license? (I have test data that, by its > nature, I can't do that with, but I can do so on the containers and > descriptive texts about that data.) > Does this page answer your question? http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html
