Archetype ontology

2002-09-13 Thread Thomas Beale


Melvin Reynolds wrote:

 Thomas,

 Somewhat to my surprise I find myself agreeing with most of your 
 points in the discussion below. 

he he he, that's the kind of reply I like to see;-)

 However, the final statement ... As soon as one starts thinking 
 about what has to happen to turn messages into EHR content, it 
 becomes clearer and clearer that the EHR is nothing like a compendium 
 of messages; for from it - it is a time-based accumulator of EHR 
 information, some of which is sourced from messages, much of which is 
 created by human users of GUI applications. seems like a gross 
 oversimplification of the reality.

 It is true a readable EHR is not likely to a compendium of messages. 
 But an EHR for use in a primary care context is not likely require to 
 present the same information (in full) as an acute secondary care EHR; 
 and neither are likely to require to present the full audit trail of 
 all messages, requests and reports that would be required of a 
 medico-legally complete (but clinically unhelpful) EHR. 

Well, that's probably fair enough (although I am not sure I believe that 
GPs are any less required to have medico-legal protection than any other 
clinician), but consider that even in a local GP EHR, modifications to 
things like Current Medications, Family history, Social History, 
Vaccination record, Therapeutic precautions , Problem list, will 
generally not come from messages - there is no other place for this data 
to come from but the GP application. It will instead come through the 
application / EHR kernel API, and create EHR data on the fly.

Now... try to imagine how useful the GP EHR would be minus the items I 
mention

 As well as a clarification of scope, it would seem to be important to 
 clarify at what level of context/granularity we are seeking to produce 
 the EHR. 

do you want to expand on this?

 Sorry if I've missed anything  - but the recent discussions would seem 
 to indicate that I'm not alone if I have. 

just point it out, and I'll try to explain more what I think, if at 
least that can help...


- thomas



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Archetype ontology

2002-09-13 Thread Gerard Freriks
On 13-09-2002 16:51, Melvin Reynolds MelvinR at AMS-Consulting.co.uk wrote:

 
 However, the final statement ... As soon as one starts thinking
 about what has to happen to turn messages into EHR content, it
 becomes clearer and clearer that the EHR is nothing like a compendium
 of messages; for from it - it is a time-based accumulator of EHR
 information, some of which is sourced from messages, much of which is
 created by human users of GUI applications. seems like a gross
 oversimplification of the reality.
 
 It is true a readable EHR is not likely to a compendium of
 messages.  But an EHR for use in a primary care context is not likely
 require to  present the same information (in full) as an acute
 secondary care EHR;  and neither are likely to require to present the
 full audit trail of  all messages, requests and reports that would be
 required of a  medico-legally complete (but clinically unhelpful) EHR.


The information a healthcare provider submits to the record is what he/she
sees on the screen. This committed information has to be signed. It is not
sufficient that the author is recorded but for legal proof it is necessaryb
that he/she signes the text with his/her private key.

This is the position we (at TNO-PG) take after having studied the legal
literature (1500 pages of texts from EU Directives, Dutch laws, FDA
documents and ethics documents)

So an EHR is a series of signed, authored messages that can be used in
court. Without the fulfillment of the requirements, the EHR is nothing but
information written in the sand before a wave of the sea washes it away.

What an application does with the information on a screen and in its
database is much less relevant from a legal perspective.
What is signed is relevant.

-- work --
Gerard Freriks
TNO-PG
Zernikedreef 9
2333CK Leiden
The Netherlands

+31 71 5181388
+31 654 792800

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