Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Paul Eggleton paul.eggle...@linux.intel.com wrote: So I agree this is hard to do properly now and is going to be impossible to keep up with as time goes on, but where do you get this from? read the links I posted in this thread earlier. ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 8/31/12 11:01 AM, Richard Purdie wrote:
On Fri, 2012-08-31 at 15:29 +0100, Phil Blundell wrote:
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 23:22 +0100, Phil Blundell wrote:
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in
having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some
supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a
requirement.
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have
spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which
does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a
worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it
should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
I think the people in question are at a conference at the moment and
dealing with a few issues so they fact they haven't spoken up doesn't
surprise me.
As Richard mentioned, a lot of folks were at a conference last week and with the
holiday (in the US) over the weekend were not around to reply before.
I'm fine with merging the symlink change. As others have mentioned, if
it is an issue, a script to turn the links into copies can be written
relatively easily.
Frankly, I'm an advocate of the split, and I'm in favor of the symlink change.
A dangling link is fine for a non-criticial component like a timezone file. If
the system attempts to get the time, it will simply fall back to GMT, which to
me is acceptable on embedded systems.
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long
as it doesn't excessively hurt us. It is up to users to step up and help
maintain the use cases they care about and so far, they have done this.
So I think the position the TSC took is the correct one. Certainly we
can revisit it but its not going to stop this patch going in for
example.
Again, I agree with this.
At Wind River we've been following up and sending patches. The issue is that we
(OE) need to keep reviewing them and determining if they continue to make sense
or not. If we get into a situation where we've moved everything from /usr to /,
it's pretty clear it no longer makes sense! However, we're still far from the
point.
initramdisk (from the comments to the links Khem sent out) is certainly a
primary issue, but not the one I've been focused on in the past...
A number of devices that I've worked with do something -similar- to the ramdisk
for early booting. Boot order becomes:
firmware/bootloader - kernel - [small] rootfs mount (RO) - run init
init - module loading - setup - 'late' udev config - mount filesystems
(/usr) - 'early' udev config
(late udev is running the daemon and watching for hotplug events, early udev is
what triggers device creation behaviors. The orders are switched both for
performance, and because other then plugable devices -- the device tree is more
or less static from one boot to the next, so our root has it pre-seeded...)
Many of the devices also have a validation and restoration system on root as
well, that is performed by the setup step. If the validation fails, then
corrective actions can be taken to fix the system. The / is always a RO
system.. the device may contain more then one '/' to allow for upgrades, but the
active one is always RO to avoid various potential problems.
The more software that gets put onto the system, the harder it will be to do
field upgrades w/o a reboot. (Since we don't want to allow / to change.)
Keeping the root small makes for a quicker boot, smaller set of partitions, and
easier restoration on failure in my experience.
---
Again, if creating split systems no longer makes sense, I'm not against dumping
the code.. I am going to be monitoring our customers, as much as I'm able, over
the next 6 months - year and seeing if anyone is doing this type of split
anymore.. if they're not.. then we (OE) may, justifiably, abandon this behavior.
--Mark
Cheers,
Richard
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 4 September 2012 17:28, Mark Hatle mark.ha...@windriver.com wrote: I'm sorry, not all devices being generated have initramfs configuration (nor do people want that behavior.) Also we've shown you can build a system w/ a split filesystem and it works properly. The systemd/udev developers seem 'lazy' to me... they were unwilling to work through early and late boot so they just gave up. With oe-core master, I get: NOTE: Executing RunQueue Tasks WARNING: QA Issue: udev: /lib/libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.1, installed in the base_prefix, requires a shared library under exec_prefix (/usr): libgobject-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 (0xdead2000) So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs? Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 9/4/12 2:26 PM, Burton, Ross wrote: On 4 September 2012 17:28, Mark Hatle mark.ha...@windriver.com wrote: I'm sorry, not all devices being generated have initramfs configuration (nor do people want that behavior.) Also we've shown you can build a system w/ a split filesystem and it works properly. The systemd/udev developers seem 'lazy' to me... they were unwilling to work through early and late boot so they just gave up. With oe-core master, I get: NOTE: Executing RunQueue Tasks WARNING: QA Issue: udev: /lib/libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.1, installed in the base_prefix, requires a shared library under exec_prefix (/usr): libgobject-2.0.so.0 = /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 (0xdead2000) So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs? The gobject linkage into udev is either the result of a newer version of udev, different configuration options or something else. The version we're using from the Denzil branch did not generate this failure. (maybe the check was in error?) This type of problem is the peeling of the onion problem. You fix one, and you expose the next problem. Each of these are really problems.. the catch is at the end of the process do you eliminate the problem (in a sustainable way) or not. For this particular issue, I haven't looked at udev in a while to see where the dependency is coming from, and why it is there.. --Mark Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 4 September 2012 20:44, Mark Hatle mark.ha...@windriver.com wrote: So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs? The gobject linkage into udev is either the result of a newer version of udev, different configuration options or something else. The version we're using from the Denzil branch did not generate this failure. (maybe the check was in error?) gudev is relatively new, so probably isn't in the Denzil udev. It would be interesting to see if it's used in early boot or not (I suspect not, as it depends on GObject), and only selectively move parts of udev to /lib as required instead of forcing everything to move. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 9/4/12 3:06 PM, Burton, Ross wrote: On 4 September 2012 20:44, Mark Hatle mark.ha...@windriver.com wrote: So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs? The gobject linkage into udev is either the result of a newer version of udev, different configuration options or something else. The version we're using from the Denzil branch did not generate this failure. (maybe the check was in error?) gudev is relatively new, so probably isn't in the Denzil udev. It would be interesting to see if it's used in early boot or not (I suspect not, as it depends on GObject), and only selectively move parts of udev to /lib as required instead of forcing everything to move. Ya, understanding how it's used and when.. it should be much easier to make a good choice. I know in the past I've been able to break apart things like this. --Mark Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Khem Raj raj.k...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Richard Purdie
richard.pur...@linuxfoundation.org wrote:
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long
as it doesn't excessively hurt us
we already have, done special things to support it look how many
libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build
system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it
wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches
for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this
growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.
just to quantify it. I have 11 warnings reported about it.
WARNING: QA Issue: installed in the base_prefix, requires a
shared library under exec_prefix (/usr)
this is very custom image but very much similar to core-image-minimal
now if I fix this 11 warnings. For the sake of it I fixed these 11 warnings
by hacking patches for packages or recipes to move these files into
base_prefix and it now gives me 16 more warnings about same but
different files it wants to bring along into base_prefix
its quite slimy :/
As Khem says, leading distros are even going one step further:
http:\\fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove
Seems it's time to consider alternative rootfs layouts, like this F17 unified
filesystem.
Andrea
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 23:22 +0100, Phil Blundell wrote:
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in
having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some
supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a
requirement.
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have
spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which
does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a
worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it
should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
p.
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Phil Blundell ph...@gnu.org wrote:
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 23:22 +0100, Phil Blundell wrote:
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in
having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some
supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a
requirement.
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have
spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which
does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a
worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it
should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
yes it will be brought forth
p.
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Fri, 2012-08-31 at 15:29 +0100, Phil Blundell wrote:
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 23:22 +0100, Phil Blundell wrote:
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in
having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some
supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a
requirement.
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have
spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which
does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a
worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it
should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
I think the people in question are at a conference at the moment and
dealing with a few issues so they fact they haven't spoken up doesn't
surprise me.
I'm fine with merging the symlink change. As others have mentioned, if
it is an issue, a script to turn the links into copies can be written
relatively easily.
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long
as it doesn't excessively hurt us. It is up to users to step up and help
maintain the use cases they care about and so far, they have done this.
So I think the position the TSC took is the correct one. Certainly we
can revisit it but its not going to stop this patch going in for
example.
Cheers,
Richard
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Richard Purdie
richard.pur...@linuxfoundation.org wrote:
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long
as it doesn't excessively hurt us
we already have, done special things to support it look how many
libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build
system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it
wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches
for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this
growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Khem Raj raj.k...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Richard Purdie
richard.pur...@linuxfoundation.org wrote:
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long
as it doesn't excessively hurt us
we already have, done special things to support it look how many
libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build
system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it
wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches
for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this
growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.
just to quantify it. I have 11 warnings reported about it.
WARNING: QA Issue: installed in the base_prefix, requires a
shared library under exec_prefix (/usr)
this is very custom image but very much similar to core-image-minimal
now if I fix this 11 warnings. For the sake of it I fixed these 11 warnings
by hacking patches for packages or recipes to move these files into
base_prefix and it now gives me 16 more warnings about same but
different files it wants to bring along into base_prefix
its quite slimy :/
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 17:50, Koen Kooi k...@dominion.thruhere.net wrote: Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse. A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO. Branch updated with a symlink, and the following commit message: tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current timezone definition. /etc/localtime is a symlink instead of a copy of hard link to make it obvious what timezone data it's pointing at. For systems with /etc on a separate filesystem to /usr this will result in a dangling symlink until /usr is mounted, but as this is early boot the assumption is that anything checking it will handle that case and fallback to UTC. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 23:22, Phil Blundell ph...@gnu.org wrote: On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 22:50 +0100, Burton, Ross wrote: I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion. As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement. There's been some previous discussion on the list, see for example: The interesting mail in that thread is http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2012-February/017373.html, where Mark Hatle from Wind River not Intel (yeah, okay...) cites carrier grade blade systems. Then again I've had a few years away from OE, and I've no idea what the micro system referred to in later mails is. Considering the modern oe-core boot rapidly reaches udev and thus can silently break in subtle way with /usr unmounted, I'm not entirely happy with claiming to support separate partitions unless you define support as just gets to a shell. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Thu, 2012-08-30 at 11:00 +0100, Burton, Ross wrote: Then again I've had a few years away from OE, and I've no idea what the micro system referred to in later mails is. micro is a DISTRO which, among other things, folds /usr and / into a single tree (i.e. $bindir == $base_bindir, etc.). If you're using that configuration then clearly /usr and / must, by definition, be on the same filesystem and this is an example of a situation where we wouldn't want to make copies. p. ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 16:24 heeft Ross Burton ross.bur...@intel.com het
volgende geschreven:
Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current
timezone data.
Signed-off-by: Ross Burton ross.bur...@intel.com
---
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb |3 ++-
1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
b/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
index 31e1266..9741101 100644
--- a/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
+++ b/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ LICENSE = PD
LIC_FILES_CHKSUM =
file://asia;beginline=2;endline=3;md5=06468c0e84ef4d4c97045a4a29b08234
DEPENDS = tzcode-native
-PR = r1
+PR = r2
inherit allarch
@@ -49,6 +49,7 @@ do_install () {
# Install default timezone
install -d ${D}${sysconfdir}
echo ${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} ${D}${sysconfdir}/timezone
+ln -s ${datadir}/zoneinfo/${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE}
${D}${sysconfdir}/localtime
Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good
thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now.
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wednesday 29 August 2012 16:47:10 Koen Kooi wrote:
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 16:24 heeft Ross Burton ross.bur...@intel.com het
volgende geschreven:
Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current
timezone data.
Signed-off-by: Ross Burton ross.bur...@intel.com
---
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb |3 ++-
1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
b/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb index 31e1266..9741101
100644
--- a/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
+++ b/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ LICENSE = PD
LIC_FILES_CHKSUM =
file://asia;beginline=2;endline=3;md5=06468c0e84ef4d4c97045a4a29b08234
DEPENDS = tzcode-native
-PR = r1
+PR = r2
inherit allarch
@@ -49,6 +49,7 @@ do_install () {
# Install default timezone
install -d ${D}${sysconfdir}
echo ${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} ${D}${sysconfdir}/timezone
+ln -s ${datadir}/zoneinfo/${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE}
${D}${sysconfdir}/localtime
Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now.
Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now.
How do you get that from this patch?
Cheers,
Paul
--
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Intel Open Source Technology Centre
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Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 15:47, Koen Kooi k...@dominion.thruhere.net wrote: Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now. Pointing out that the ln should be a cp for crazy split /usr systems would have been sufficient, Koen. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 17:23 heeft Burton, Ross ross.bur...@intel.com het volgende geschreven: On 29 August 2012 15:47, Koen Kooi k...@dominion.thruhere.net wrote: Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now. Pointing out that the ln should be a cp for crazy split /usr systems would have been sufficient, Koen. Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse. A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO. ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 17:50, Koen Kooi k...@dominion.thruhere.net wrote: Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse. A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO. I'm all in favour of dropping the / and /usr split. If we get a definitive direction we can stop these arguments. :) Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wednesday 29 August 2012 17:57:16 Burton, Ross wrote: On 29 August 2012 17:50, Koen Kooi k...@dominion.thruhere.net wrote: Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse. A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO. I'm all in favour of dropping the / and /usr split. If we get a definitive direction we can stop these arguments. :) Well, the TSC as a group is still keen on supporting it last time it was discussed (a few meetings ago) as Koen mentions. Surely this specific situation is pretty easy to solve for everyone using a postinst which is able to apply some logic - i.e. if the file is on a separate filesystem then cp the file, otherwise symlink it. Cheers, Paul -- Paul Eggleton Intel Open Source Technology Centre ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 18:01, Paul Eggleton paul.eggle...@linux.intel.com wrote: Well, the TSC as a group is still keen on supporting it last time it was discussed (a few meetings ago) as Koen mentions. Surely this specific situation is pretty easy to solve for everyone using a postinst which is able to apply some logic - i.e. if the file is on a separate filesystem then cp the file, otherwise symlink it. Sounds like a lot of extra work when the choice is fairly clear. Either we don't support split file systems and mandate initramfs for network boots, or we do our best to support it. With a decision on that the choice of cp vs ln is obvious. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 18:31 +0100, Burton, Ross wrote: Sounds like a lot of extra work when the choice is fairly clear. Either we don't support split file systems and mandate initramfs for network boots, or we do our best to support it. With a decision on that the choice of cp vs ln is obvious. Even if the TSC decides that OE-core ought still to offer the option of split /usr, that doesn't necessarily mean that all distros will want to take the option up. Ideally folks who don't want/need a separate /usr would be able to get a symlink rather than a copy. p. ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 20:12, Phil Blundell ph...@gnu.org wrote: On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 18:31 +0100, Burton, Ross wrote: Sounds like a lot of extra work when the choice is fairly clear. Either we don't support split file systems and mandate initramfs for network boots, or we do our best to support it. With a decision on that the choice of cp vs ln is obvious. Even if the TSC decides that OE-core ought still to offer the option of split /usr, that doesn't necessarily mean that all distros will want to take the option up. Ideally folks who don't want/need a separate /usr would be able to get a symlink rather than a copy. Sounds like they'll need to write a tool to run after every package operation and hunt out symlinks in /etc (and other top-levels) to files in /usr and turn those into copies. Anything attempted on a per-package level will fail. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Burton, Ross ross.bur...@intel.com wrote: Sounds like they'll need to write a tool to run after every package operation and hunt out symlinks in /etc (and other top-levels) to files in /usr and turn those into copies. Anything attempted on a per-package level will fail. why cant you have symlinks across /usr and / all you have to do is ignore the warning about cross reference. We dont want to be in a situation where everything is ending up in /lib and /bin and so on. I am afraid thats where we are headed as more and more patches are coming where we are moving libraries from /usr/lib into /lib against the wishes of package owners who want them to be in /usr. rest of linux world is moving in opposite direction where /usr is just fine and considered existing along with rest of basefile structure. see http://lwn.net/Articles/483921/ http://lwn.net/Articles/431185/ More and more packages are now assuming /usr and we would have to keep fixing them to support our view of world if we go strict about enforcing / and /usr separation there is unionfs and initramfs and so many other techniques to solve this problem now a days we dont have to differentiate between / and /usr ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On 29 August 2012 22:38, Khem Raj raj.k...@gmail.com wrote: rest of linux world is moving in opposite direction where /usr is just fine and considered existing along with rest of basefile structure. Agreed. I'm with the side that says split / and /usr doesn't really work and they should always be the same filesystem. I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion. Ross ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 22:50 +0100, Burton, Ross wrote: I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion. As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement. There's been some previous discussion on the list, see for example: http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2012-February/017360.html and the follow-ups to that message. p. ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
Re: [OE-core] [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Phil Blundell ph...@gnu.org wrote: On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 22:50 +0100, Burton, Ross wrote: I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion. As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed carrier grade systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement. whatever the reasons are. Its not clear what are reasons these systems can not use techniques available now a days for creating new systems. I can understand if OE had a legacy of it but seemingly its a feature being added. I see that as an exception and not norm and we are treating as norm. There's been some previous discussion on the list, see for example: http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2012-February/017360.html and the follow-ups to that message. p. ___ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
