Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Fw: Re: ATI radeon hd 6850 gnome issue

[Mikolaj Walkiewicz]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 12:51 AM, ken mays  wrote:

> Mikolaj,
>
> Actually, the gtk-window-decorator command is in the /usr/bin (/bin)
>  directory.
>
> Xorg ATI radeon 6.14.1 driver under build review for OI. No promises!
>
> ~ Ken Mays
>


It would be great :)

-- 
Best regards/Pozdrawiam,

Mikołaj Wałkiewicz

:: mikolaj.walkiew...@gmail.com
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?

[Nikola M.]

On 03/29/11 12:28 AM, ken mays wrote:
> Use ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0/contrib/solaris_pkgadd/
> for the official release of Firefox 4.0.

I guess the point of IPS should be we should have such things like final
releases of browsers and other packages, available in IPS update
repository from where every OI install could pull from and be equipped
with newest applications, that is important to be current.
Because of security reasons and for being current.

Guess that is not so near future but I felt like need to mention IPS
update publishers.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/28/11 11:35 PM, GUY WOOLLEY wrote:
> discussions have now moved into some new thread, 
> but I guess there will be interference between the two lines.
> Sorry for the inconvenience.

Think Apostolos should be check he's mail client
(ditch yahoo or something), since he was starting new threads with he's
responses since 2010/10/16:

http://img863.imageshack.us/f/apostolos.png/

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?

[Gary]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:28 PM, ken mays  wrote:
> Use ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0/contrib/solaris_pkgadd/
> for the official release of Firefox 4.0.

That's where I downloaded from but they're actually RC2 binaries.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Fw: Re: ATI radeon hd 6850 gnome issue

[ken mays]

Mikolaj,

Actually, the gtk-window-decorator command is in the /usr/bin (/bin)  directory.

Xorg ATI radeon 6.14.1 driver under build review for OI. No promises!

~ Ken Mays


--- On Sun, 3/27/11, Mikolaj Walkiewicz  wrote:

> From: Mikolaj Walkiewicz 
> Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Fw: Re:  ATI radeon hd 6850 gnome issue
> To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" 
> Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 4:47 PM
> Ken,
> 
> 
> "load into GNOME, go to Prefereneces-Themes
> you'll see a tab with 'Theme details'. That will bring you
> to Window frame
> management. Make your modifications and test."
> 
> It doesn't work, even though I change to different frame
> layouts nothing
> happens, I still don't have frames around the windows.
> 
> 
> 
> "You can use the vesa driver"
> Yep, if I use vesa I can logon to gnome but regardless of
> problems about the
> frames I can't set the resolution, I tried commands which
> you proposed
> earlier but you saw the results.
> 
> 
> "Alan (from Oracle) mentioned the ATI/AMD Radeon HD 6xxx
> are 'unsupported'
> on Solaris 11 and OpenIndiana_148 at this time. Heed the
> warning!"
> 
> So that's not a good news.
> 
> 
> Maybe I should reinstall gnome? I don't know if it helps
> somehow ...
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?

[ken mays]

Use ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0/contrib/solaris_pkgadd/
for the official release of Firefox 4.0.

~ Ken Mays


--- On Mon, 3/28/11, Gary  wrote:

> From: Gary 
> Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?
> To: openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
> Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 5:50 PM
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:46 PM, ejc
> wrote:
> 
> > Haven't updated to rc2 yet.
> 
> OK, I guess I should have looked here because they appear
> to be the
> same files as what's in the 4.0 final release dir from my
> initial
> post: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0rc2/contrib/solaris_pkgadd
> 
> I may just have to grab the 4.0 source and look at the
> about:buildconfig for the RC2 binary.
> 
> -Gary
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?

[Gary]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:46 PM, ejc wrote:

> Haven't updated to rc2 yet.

OK, I guess I should have looked here because they appear to be the
same files as what's in the 4.0 final release dir from my initial
post: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0rc2/contrib/solaris_pkgadd

I may just have to grab the 4.0 source and look at the
about:buildconfig for the RC2 binary.

-Gary

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?

[ejc]

I'm currently running this:

   PKGINST:  SFWfirefox.2
  NAME:  Mozilla Firefox Web browser
  CATEGORY:  GNOME2,application,JDSosol
  ARCH:  i386
   VERSION:  4.0rc1,REV=110.0.4.2011.03.04.11.42
   BASEDIR:  /
VENDOR:  Sun Microsystems, Inc.
  DESC:  Mozilla Firefox Web browser
PSTAMP:  jdsbld1420110304123548
  INSTDATE:  Mar 18 2011 11:07

without problem.

Haven't updated to rc2 yet.

Thanks,
Eric

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Gary  wrote:
> I grabbed the binary installer from the contrib directory
> (ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0/contrib/solaris_pkgadd/),
> and the files there are dated March 21st, but the package header says
> it's RC2. Has anyone installed this on OI yet?
>
>  1  SFWfirefox     Mozilla Firefox Web browser
>                    (i386) 4.0rc2,REV=110.0.4.2011.03.21.13.08
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Bill Sommerfeld]

On 03/28/11 06:53, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
> Really? Do you know how many times my system became useless
> just because I had used reboot? 

you're not providing an *actionable* complaint here with specifics about
how the system became "useless".

It should not be necessary to use "init 6" for the system to survive a
reboot, though some applications may be confused by this action.

I used reboot all the time on opensolaris/openindiana systems without
any problem; in some cases I've had better availability from reboot due
to hangs in shutdown scripts.  live upgrade was about the only thing I
used that required init 6 rather than reboot, and I eventually worked
around that by running the LU shutdown script manually before reboot.
then I migrated systems to IPS packaging & beadm and even that became
unnecessary.

- Bill


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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Firefox 4?

[Gary]

I grabbed the binary installer from the contrib directory
(ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/4.0/contrib/solaris_pkgadd/),
and the files there are dated March 21st, but the package header says
it's RC2. Has anyone installed this on OI yet?

  1  SFWfirefox Mozilla Firefox Web browser
(i386) 4.0rc2,REV=110.0.4.2011.03.21.13.08

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[GUY WOOLLEY]

 Apostolos has been helping me with a broken OI installation - hence 
the thread title "OI boot problem" which I started last week; sometime 
yesterday that thread was partially diverted into commentary about the virtues 
of shutdown, reboot, init etc. - irrelevant to my question. "shutdown" 
discussions have now moved into some new thread, but I guess there will be 
interference between the two lines. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Guy


--- On Mon, 28/3/11, Nikola M.  wrote:

From: Nikola M. 
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem
To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" 
Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 21:57

On 03/27/11 11:39 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
>> findroot (pool_rpool,X,Y)

Apostolos, Hi,
Sorry but it is interesting to me and I need to ask:
Is it only me or I keep seeing your every message as new topic?
Could it be it is you? and do you think it could be avoided for you somehow?

(I personally hit reply in Thunderbird and Every time I get message
right inline with topics, like it should.)
Cheers!

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Networking with Zones an Crossbow

[Gary]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011, Darko Hojnik wrote:

> Any ideas how I could deploy like this using Crossbow in Zones without a
> bridge?
>
>
>             network
>  <      Subnet 10.0.0.0       >
>                |
>      _     global Zone     _
>     |       10.0.0.2        |
>     |          |            |
>     |          |            |
>  Zone 1      Zone 2       Zone3
>  10.0.0.3    10.0.0.4     10.0.0.5

That won't work with a NAT setup -- you'll have to choose a different
subnet for your internal systems and route all traffic through the
global zone's IP. That may be OK if you have only a handful of
services that require inbound connections but you may want to consider
bridging. I've personally never heard of anyone objecting to (or even
noticing) when interfaces are in promiscuous mode. But if you plan on
simplifying your environment, bridging is probably the best way to go.
It also simplifies things considerably if you decide down the road to
move the local zone to another server.

-Gary

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Volker A. Brandt]

Kevin J. Woolley writes:
> Agreed -- as far as I can tell, no one has suggested actually changing
> the existing shutdown/reboot.  The proposal was to put alternate
> versions in /usr/gnu/bin.

Well, I had suggested to change the default runlevel that shutdown
will change into when none is supplied on the command line.  Currently,
it will go into s aka single user mode, 6 aka graceful reboot might
be better.


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/27/11 11:39 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
>> findroot (pool_rpool,X,Y)

Apostolos, Hi,
Sorry but it is interesting to me and I need to ask:
Is it only me or I keep seeing your every message as new topic?
Could it be it is you? and do you think it could be avoided for you somehow?

(I personally hit reply in Thunderbird and Every time I get message
right inline with topics, like it should.)
Cheers!

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Robin Axelsson]

I'm also happy with the init 5/6 commands but I'm a little annoyed that 
pressing the power button does not shut down the system. When I press 
it, the system conducts a 30 seconds countdown to shutdown and then 
nothing happens. I have not tested this thoroughly on b148 but it was a 
nuisance to find out about it on b134.


On 2011-03-28 17:24, Jonathan Adams wrote:

1) "the more progressive amongst us do" I take exception to this
statement ... some of the GNU commands are broken on Solaris, and
secure accounts should have as little in it's path (if you use root or
any secure account) as possible so that you can be _sure_ of which app
you are using.

2) "reboot" does what it says on the tin, "shutdown" works as would be
expected (you can use shutdown to run many different types of
shutdown/init) ...

Please do not change these to make them more like Linux, please do not
change the init levels to make them match Linux, IMO the Linux init
states are broken.

If you're using a server then expect to know some of the commands for
running the server. If you're using the desktop there is a nice
graphical "Shutdown" routine. If you're in front of the hardware and
you want to power down (and it's an ATX case) press the power button
once.

On 28 March 2011 16:09, Alasdair Lumsden  wrote:

Hi All,

My proposal would be to add a "Linux/*BSD"-like reboot and shutdown command
to /usr/gnu/bin

The traditionalist UNIX folk don't typically run /usr/gnu/bin at the front
of their path, whilst the more progressive amongst us do. So this should
satisfy both parties.

When I was switching from a Linux/FreeBSD background to Solaris, I found the
unnecessarily complicated reboot/shutdown situation highly frustrating.
Typing "init 6" and "init 5" when you mean "reboot" and "shutdown" seemed
utterly bizarre, and stupid, and angered me.

Rather than do a half-baked shell script that wraps the existing tools, I
think we should probably do a bit more research and implement something a
bit more "proper" with similar FreeBSD/Linux like syntax (depending on what
that syntax is - I haven't looked in a while).

Cheers,

Alasdair


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Networking with Zones an Crossbow

[Darko Hojnik]

Hello
Here is a litte ascitext of my plan

Any ideas how I could deploy like this using Crossbow in Zones without a  
bridge?



 network
  <  Subnet 10.0.0.0   >
|
  _ global Zone _
 |   10.0.0.2|
 |  ||
 |  ||
  Zone 1  Zone 2   Zone3
 10.0.0.310.0.0.4 10.0.0.5

If I use two interfaces on the same subnet on the zone I have no running  
network anymore.


Thanks for advance


Am 27.03.2011, 18:31 Uhr, schrieb Darko Hojnik :


Hello Gary,

They is no Bridge on the System configured. Because for the future if I  
would run OpenIndiana in a Datacenter some ISP's doesn't like Interfaces  
with promiscuous mode in there network. My goal is to deploy one  
Interface  from the global zone and vnic's per each unprivileged zone.  
And everything should run in one network only without bridging.


kind regards,
Darko

Am 27.03.2011, 17:08 Uhr, schrieb Gary Driggs :

I may have missed something... Did you day these are not bridged  
interfaces? If so, which one is handling the routing? I've only used  
VNICs in bridged mode as we have external infrastructure for routing.


-Gary
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[OpenIndiana-discuss] mySQL

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

Vulnerable Target  : http://mysql.com/customers/view/index.html?id=1170 Host IP 
 :   213.136.52.29
Web Server   :   Apache/2.2.15 (Fedora)  <--Wow!
Powered-by   :   PHP/5.2.13
Injection Type:   MySQL Blind
Current DB :   web


from


http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2011/Mar/309
 
--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece


  

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] zfs incremental send?

[Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk]

Hi all

I have a few boxes with rather large amounts of data on ZFS, and so far, it's 
been working quite well. Now, one little problem is mentioned every now and 
then. Is it (or will it) be possible to do a partial/resumable zfs 
send/receive? If having 30TB of data and only a gigabit link, such transfers 
takes a while, and if interrupted, will require a re-transmit of all the data.

What could make a partial transfer work?

Vennlige hilsener / Best regards

roy
--
Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
(+47) 97542685
r...@karlsbakk.net
http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/
--
I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er 
et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av 
idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og 
relevante synonymer på norsk.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Michael Schuster]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 19:23, Apostolos Syropoulos
 wrote:
>>
>> I fail to see the benefit of changing well-known behaviour in an
>> incompatible way. Change for the sake of change may be chique for
>> fashion items, but not necessarily a good thing in a server-grade OS.
>>
>
> Hey but that's exactly another problem: this is not a server OS only.
> The graphics and audio drivers have nothing to do with servers
> but they are extremely important for desktop users. This server
> attitude is what has destroyed Sun.

if only it were that simple (and no, I have no special insight, but
your statement is a drastic oversimplification) ...

Michael
-- 
regards/mit freundlichen Grüssen
Michael Schuster

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Al Slater]

On 28/03/2011 5:51 PM, Michael Schuster wrote:

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:39, Apostolos Syropoulos
  wrote:

SunOS has a long history of providing many flavors of commands. No one will
object to adding a few.  However, changing the behavior of commands that have
been around for 20+ years really doesn't make any sense.  Many of these are


But that is exactly the problem with these commands: they are too old and
outdated. In many respects this was the main problem of Solaris: it was
not moving fast enough.


I fail to see the benefit of changing well-known behaviour in an
incompatible way. Change for the sake of change may be chique for
fashion items, but not necessarily a good thing in a server-grade OS.


+1


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Kevin J. Woolley]

On 28 March 2011 10:30, Didier Carlier  wrote:

> shutdown -r is ok, it used to be there in SunOS 4 (bsd based at the time) and 
> -r is not used currently.
> For reboot, I really does not understand why the subject is so hot...
> init 6 is juste as short and reboot on Solaris has other options which are 
> not there on Linux. And it does what it says.
> Anyway, if someone switches from Linux to OpenIndiana there are so many 
> other, more important things to learn that this debate looks really displaced 
> (very personal opinion of course).

Agreed -- as far as I can tell, no one has suggested actually changing
the existing shutdown/reboot.  The proposal was to put alternate
versions in /usr/gnu/bin.

I have fond memories of SunOS 4, and was so excited when I got my
hands on Solaris 2.5.  I didn't think it'd get to version 11 so
quickly.  :)  Nor did I think Sun would fade away as it has.
Interesting times!

Cheers,

kjw

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Didier Carlier]

shutdown -r is ok, it used to be there in SunOS 4 (bsd based at the time) and 
-r is not used currently.
For reboot, I really does not understand why the subject is so hot... 
init 6 is juste as short and reboot on Solaris has other options which are not 
there on Linux. And it does what it says.
Anyway, if someone switches from Linux to OpenIndiana there are so many other, 
more important things to learn that this debate looks really displaced (very 
personal opinion of course).
  

On 28 Mar 2011, at 19:15, Deano wrote:

> Regardless of what Solaris does, what Linux does and so on. Clarity and
> future userability of OPEN INDIANA is more important than all other concerns
> and for that reason alone reboot and shutdown, should be available by
> default and do exactly what they say on the tin.
> 
> Let's not get stuck as a legacy OS, or if that is what OI is meant to be
> lets state that so we don't work hard trying to cater for new users!
> 
> Bye,
> Deano
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin J. Woolley [mailto:k...@javabunny.net] 
> Sent: 28 March 2011 17:50
> To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
> Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI
> boot problem)
> 
> On 28 March 2011 09:32, John McEntee  wrote:
> 
>> Now, who in their right mind would suggest you have to check uname every
>> time before changing run levels.
> 
> It kind of makes sense -- if you're on Solaris you need to use
> "shutdown -i 6 -g 0" to reboot, and on everything else you need to use
> "reboot" or "shutdown -r".  ;)
> 
> (This holds true for at least the BSDs, OS X (IIRC), Linux, HP-UX, and AIX.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> kjw
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> 
> I fail to see the benefit of changing well-known behaviour in an
> incompatible way. Change for the sake of change may be chique for
> fashion items, but not necessarily a good thing in a server-grade OS.
> 
 
Hey but that's exactly another problem: this is not a server OS only.
The graphics and audio drivers have nothing to do with servers
but they are extremely important for desktop users. This server
attitude is what has destroyed Sun. Microsoft and Apple sell
desktops...

A.S.


--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Deano]

Regardless of what Solaris does, what Linux does and so on. Clarity and
future userability of OPEN INDIANA is more important than all other concerns
and for that reason alone reboot and shutdown, should be available by
default and do exactly what they say on the tin.

Let's not get stuck as a legacy OS, or if that is what OI is meant to be
lets state that so we don't work hard trying to cater for new users!

Bye,
Deano

-Original Message-
From: Kevin J. Woolley [mailto:k...@javabunny.net] 
Sent: 28 March 2011 17:50
To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI
boot problem)

On 28 March 2011 09:32, John McEntee  wrote:

> Now, who in their right mind would suggest you have to check uname every
> time before changing run levels.

It kind of makes sense -- if you're on Solaris you need to use
"shutdown -i 6 -g 0" to reboot, and on everything else you need to use
"reboot" or "shutdown -r".  ;)

(This holds true for at least the BSDs, OS X (IIRC), Linux, HP-UX, and AIX.)

Cheers,

kjw

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[GUY WOOLLEY]

Hello,
   I'm back at this - problem with pool_rpool continues. I get nothing 
from using "touch" as per your email below

jack@opensolaris:~$ pfexec zpool import -f rpool
jack@opensolaris:~$ pfexec mkdir /a
jack@opensolaris:~$ pfexec beadm mount 0i_148-2 /a
jack@opensolaris:~$ pfexec touch /a/rpool/boot/grub/bootsign/pool_rpool
touch: cannot touch `/a/rpool/boot/grub/bootsign/pool_rpool': No such file or 
directory

What am I doing wrong ?

Guy


--- On Sun, 27/3/11, Apostolos Syropoulos  wrote:

From: Apostolos Syropoulos 
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem
To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" 
Date: Sunday, 27 March, 2011, 10:39

> findroot (pool_rpool,X,Y)
> file not found

On two systems I have just checked:

$ ls -l
σύνολο 1
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2010-05-19 17:49 pool_rpool
$ more pool_rpool 
$ pwd
/rpool/boot/grub/bootsign


Now when you boot with the live thing just
make sure the file exists. Otherwise, created with

# touch /a/rpool/boot/grub/bootsign/pool_rpool


 Now the X and Y parameters in findroot (pool_rpool,X,Y)
corresponds to the disk partition (0 is the first one) and
the slice within the partition (slices start with a).

 A.S.

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



      

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Michael Schuster]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:39, Apostolos Syropoulos
 wrote:
>> SunOS has a long history of providing many flavors of commands. No one will
>> object to adding a few.  However, changing the behavior of commands that have
>> been around for 20+ years really doesn't make any sense.  Many of these are
>
> But that is exactly the problem with these commands: they are too old and
> outdated. In many respects this was the main problem of Solaris: it was
> not moving fast enough.

I fail to see the benefit of changing well-known behaviour in an
incompatible way. Change for the sake of change may be chique for
fashion items, but not necessarily a good thing in a server-grade OS.

Michael
-- 
regards/mit freundlichen Grüssen
Michael Schuster

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Kevin J. Woolley]

On 28 March 2011 09:32, John McEntee  wrote:

> Now, who in their right mind would suggest you have to check uname every
> time before changing run levels.

It kind of makes sense -- if you're on Solaris you need to use
"shutdown -i 6 -g 0" to reboot, and on everything else you need to use
"reboot" or "shutdown -r".  ;)

(This holds true for at least the BSDs, OS X (IIRC), Linux, HP-UX, and AIX.)

Cheers,

kjw

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Jonathan Adams]

I'm not sure about you, but if I'm changing run levels, and I'm remote
accessing a machine, I _do_ double check with uname ... mainly to make
sure I'm on the correct host, not the OS.

I remember the phone conversation after I connected into birmingham
instead of braintree ... the names of the servers are _too_similar :)

It's become a habit now :)

Jon

On 28 March 2011 17:32, John McEntee  wrote:
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Svein Skogen (Listmail account)
>>Sent: 28 March 2011 16:57
>>
>>
>>How would this affect those of us so confused by variants of BSD/SysVR4,
> that we need to check uname to remember the correct syntax for this
> particular >box?
>
>
> Now, who in their right mind would suggest you have to check uname every
> time before changing run levels.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[John McEntee]

>-Original Message-
>From: Svein Skogen (Listmail account) 
>Sent: 28 March 2011 16:57
>
>
>How would this affect those of us so confused by variants of BSD/SysVR4,
that we need to check uname to remember the correct syntax for this
particular >box?


Now, who in their right mind would suggest you have to check uname every
time before changing run levels.






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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Toomas Soome]

this one? 

pkg:/developer/build/cmake@2.6.2-0.151.0.1
pkg.description setCMake - A cross-platform open-source make system (2.6.2) 

http://www.cmake.org/ 

 

On 28.03.2011, at 19:01, Colin Ellis wrote:

> And fix those broken Oracle things like 'cmake'...
> 
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Toomas Soome  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 28.03.2011, at 18:51, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't see what's progressive about the BSD and Linux shutdown
>>> implementations, they just have different commandline options and
>>> little more useful functionality (ie. message and more flexible
>>> scheduling).
>>> Solaris /usr/sbin/shutdown is itself a shellscript wrapping
>>> around init.  Commandline options between BSD and Linux differ
>>> and most of them (except -r, -h, time and message) seem pretty
>>> much useless anyway.
>>> 
>>> Manpages are at
>>> 
>> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE&format=html
>>> 
>> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=8&manpath=SuSE+Linux%2Fi386+11.3&format=html
>>> 
>>> Code at
>>> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sbin/shutdown/
>>> http://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/sysvinit/trunk/src/?root=sysvinit
>>> 
>> 
>> i think you need to add --help and --do-really-fast-boot and
>> --be-quiet-and-just-fucking-halt  as well.
>> 
>> ah, and stuff like "-x  (this option is now outdated and will be removed in
>> future)" and "-z (this option was removed, use -x instead)"
>> 
>> maybe you should consider fixing those broken gnu tools before breaking
>> solaris any more?
>> 
>> toomas
>> 
>> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Colin Ellis]

And fix those broken Oracle things like 'cmake'...

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Toomas Soome  wrote:

>
> On 28.03.2011, at 18:51, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
> >
> > I don't see what's progressive about the BSD and Linux shutdown
> > implementations, they just have different commandline options and
> > little more useful functionality (ie. message and more flexible
> > scheduling).
> > Solaris /usr/sbin/shutdown is itself a shellscript wrapping
> > around init.  Commandline options between BSD and Linux differ
> > and most of them (except -r, -h, time and message) seem pretty
> > much useless anyway.
> >
> > Manpages are at
> >
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE&format=html
> >
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=8&manpath=SuSE+Linux%2Fi386+11.3&format=html
> >
> > Code at
> > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sbin/shutdown/
> > http://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/sysvinit/trunk/src/?root=sysvinit
> >
>
> i think you need to add --help and --do-really-fast-boot and
> --be-quiet-and-just-fucking-halt  as well.
>
> ah, and stuff like "-x  (this option is now outdated and will be removed in
> future)" and "-z (this option was removed, use -x instead)"
>
> maybe you should consider fixing those broken gnu tools before breaking
> solaris any more?
>
> toomas
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Toomas Soome]

On 28.03.2011, at 18:51, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
> 
> I don't see what's progressive about the BSD and Linux shutdown
> implementations, they just have different commandline options and
> little more useful functionality (ie. message and more flexible
> scheduling).
> Solaris /usr/sbin/shutdown is itself a shellscript wrapping
> around init.  Commandline options between BSD and Linux differ
> and most of them (except -r, -h, time and message) seem pretty
> much useless anyway.
> 
> Manpages are at
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE&format=html
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=8&manpath=SuSE+Linux%2Fi386+11.3&format=html
> 
> Code at
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sbin/shutdown/
> http://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/sysvinit/trunk/src/?root=sysvinit
> 

i think you need to add --help and --do-really-fast-boot and 
--be-quiet-and-just-fucking-halt  as well.

ah, and stuff like "-x  (this option is now outdated and will be removed in 
future)" and "-z (this option was removed, use -x instead)"

maybe you should consider fixing those broken gnu tools before breaking solaris 
any more? 

toomas


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Svein Skogen (Listmail account)]

On 28.03.2011 17:53, Alasdair Lumsden wrote:
> On 28/03/2011 16:50, Kevin J. Woolley wrote:
> 
>> Please feel free to use this shell script to "fix" your new releases:
>>
>> #!/bin/sh
>> rm -f /usr/gnu/bin/reboot /usr/gnu/bin/shutdown
>>
>> Or simply leave /usr/gnu/bin out of your path.
> 
> +1

How would this affect those of us so confused by variants of BSD/SysVR4,
that we need to check uname to remember the correct syntax for this
particular box?

This half-attempt at a joke is directed at people wanting to gnu-i-fy
everything. "Just because Linux does so" doesn't mean things are good ideas.

//Svein

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Alasdair Lumsden]

On 28/03/2011 16:50, Kevin J. Woolley wrote:


Please feel free to use this shell script to "fix" your new releases:

#!/bin/sh
rm -f /usr/gnu/bin/reboot /usr/gnu/bin/shutdown

Or simply leave /usr/gnu/bin out of your path.


+1

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Guido Berhoerster]

* Alasdair Lumsden  [2011-03-28 17:09]:
> Hi All,
> 
> My proposal would be to add a "Linux/*BSD"-like reboot and shutdown
> command to /usr/gnu/bin
> 
> The traditionalist UNIX folk don't typically run /usr/gnu/bin at the
> front of their path, whilst the more progressive amongst us do. So
> this should satisfy both parties.
> 
> When I was switching from a Linux/FreeBSD background to Solaris, I
> found the unnecessarily complicated reboot/shutdown situation highly
> frustrating. Typing "init 6" and "init 5" when you mean "reboot" and
> "shutdown" seemed utterly bizarre, and stupid, and angered me.
> 
> Rather than do a half-baked shell script that wraps the existing
> tools, I think we should probably do a bit more research and
> implement something a bit more "proper" with similar FreeBSD/Linux
> like syntax (depending on what that syntax is - I haven't looked in
> a while).

I don't see what's progressive about the BSD and Linux shutdown
implementations, they just have different commandline options and
little more useful functionality (ie. message and more flexible
scheduling).
Solaris /usr/sbin/shutdown is itself a shellscript wrapping
around init.  Commandline options between BSD and Linux differ
and most of them (except -r, -h, time and message) seem pretty
much useless anyway.

Manpages are at
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE&format=html
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=shutdown&apropos=0&sektion=8&manpath=SuSE+Linux%2Fi386+11.3&format=html

Code at
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sbin/shutdown/
http://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/sysvinit/trunk/src/?root=sysvinit

I guess we should better discuss implementation details with Illumos.
-- 
Guido Berhoerster

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Kevin J. Woolley]

On 28 March 2011 08:48, Jonathan Adams  wrote:

> feel free to create these script and store them in a folder called
> "/usr/myreboots" you can then add this to your path:
>
> reboot:
> #!/sbin/sh
> init 6
>
> shutdown:
> #!/sbin/sh
> init 5
>
> thankyou.

Please feel free to use this shell script to "fix" your new releases:

#!/bin/sh
rm -f /usr/gnu/bin/reboot /usr/gnu/bin/shutdown

Or simply leave /usr/gnu/bin out of your path.

Cheers,

kjw

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Jonathan Adams]

feel free to create these script and store them in a folder called
"/usr/myreboots" you can then add this to your path:

reboot:
#!/sbin/sh
init 6

shutdown:
#!/sbin/sh
init 5

thankyou.

On 28 March 2011 16:45, Kevin J. Woolley  wrote:
> On 28 March 2011 08:24, Jonathan Adams  wrote:
>
>> 1) "the more progressive amongst us do" I take exception to this
>> statement ... some of the GNU commands are broken on Solaris, and
>> secure accounts should have as little in it's path (if you use root or
>> any secure account) as possible so that you can be _sure_ of which app
>> you are using.
>
> Surely you expect that people who are interested in using an
> alternative version of a command are capable of maintaining their PATH
> so they know exactly which tool they're using.
>
>> 2) "reboot" does what it says on the tin, "shutdown" works as would be
>> expected (you can use shutdown to run many different types of
>> shutdown/init) ...
>>
>> Please do not change these to make them more like Linux, please do not
>> change the init levels to make them match Linux, IMO the Linux init
>> states are broken.
>
> I don't remember anyone suggesting changing the initlevels.
>
>> If you're using a server then expect to know some of the commands for
>> running the server. If you're using the desktop there is a nice
>> graphical "Shutdown" routine. If you're in front of the hardware and
>> you want to power down (and it's an ATX case) press the power button
>> once.
>
> You've never seen a Linux server before?  Strange -- they seem to be
> all over the place.
>
> Simply put, no one is going to force you to use it.  It's not going to
> cause the system to explode, and it's unlikely an untrusted local user
> is going to be able to root a system with it, or anything similarly
> catastrophic.
>
> http://bikeshed.com/
>
> Cheers,
>
> kjw
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Kevin J. Woolley]

On 28 March 2011 08:24, Jonathan Adams  wrote:

> 1) "the more progressive amongst us do" I take exception to this
> statement ... some of the GNU commands are broken on Solaris, and
> secure accounts should have as little in it's path (if you use root or
> any secure account) as possible so that you can be _sure_ of which app
> you are using.

Surely you expect that people who are interested in using an
alternative version of a command are capable of maintaining their PATH
so they know exactly which tool they're using.

> 2) "reboot" does what it says on the tin, "shutdown" works as would be
> expected (you can use shutdown to run many different types of
> shutdown/init) ...
>
> Please do not change these to make them more like Linux, please do not
> change the init levels to make them match Linux, IMO the Linux init
> states are broken.

I don't remember anyone suggesting changing the initlevels.

> If you're using a server then expect to know some of the commands for
> running the server. If you're using the desktop there is a nice
> graphical "Shutdown" routine. If you're in front of the hardware and
> you want to power down (and it's an ATX case) press the power button
> once.

You've never seen a Linux server before?  Strange -- they seem to be
all over the place.

Simply put, no one is going to force you to use it.  It's not going to
cause the system to explode, and it's unlikely an untrusted local user
is going to be able to root a system with it, or anything similarly
catastrophic.

http://bikeshed.com/

Cheers,

kjw

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Volker A. Brandt]

Jonathan Adams writes:
> If you're using a server then expect to know some of the commands for
> running the server. If you're using the desktop there is a nice
> graphical "Shutdown" routine. If you're in front of the hardware and
> you want to power down (and it's an ATX case) press the power button
> once.

Couldn't have said it better.  +99 :-)
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> SunOS has a long history of providing many flavors of commands. No one will 
> object to adding a few.  However, changing the behavior of commands that have 
> been around for 20+ years really doesn't make any sense.  Many of these are 
 
But that is exactly the problem with these commands: they are too old and
outdated. In many respects this was the main problem of Solaris: it was
not moving fast enough.

A.S.


--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Jonathan Adams]

oki, works fine for me so far, OpenLDAP server/Illumos LDAP client run
fine on the same machine TUN/TAP still connects, NFS handles correctly
on local and OpenVPN network ...

All apps run so far work fine (Java based
SQLDeveloper/DBVisualiser/JXplorer) Firefox 4, Thunderbird 3, Compiz
... all the things I use normally work ... will it help if I include
hardware descriptions/PCI listings?

On 28 March 2011 16:16, Alasdair Lumsden  wrote:
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> On 28/03/2011 16:11, Jonathan Adams wrote:
>>
>> I assumed that since it was announced to discuss that it was getting
>> close and you just wanted more people to boot and test.
>>
>> how close to "production" do you feel we are?
>
> oi-148 + Illumos won't actually make it to a public release; it's a
> launchpad for something newer.
>
> If you would like to test it, please go ahead, but just heed the warnings
> that it's more experimental than the usual /dev repo :-)
>
> We would appreciate public feedback on this, but people just need to be
> aware it's a test repo rather than a /dev release.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alasdair
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Jonathan Adams]

1) "the more progressive amongst us do" I take exception to this
statement ... some of the GNU commands are broken on Solaris, and
secure accounts should have as little in it's path (if you use root or
any secure account) as possible so that you can be _sure_ of which app
you are using.

2) "reboot" does what it says on the tin, "shutdown" works as would be
expected (you can use shutdown to run many different types of
shutdown/init) ...

Please do not change these to make them more like Linux, please do not
change the init levels to make them match Linux, IMO the Linux init
states are broken.

If you're using a server then expect to know some of the commands for
running the server. If you're using the desktop there is a nice
graphical "Shutdown" routine. If you're in front of the hardware and
you want to power down (and it's an ATX case) press the power button
once.

On 28 March 2011 16:09, Alasdair Lumsden  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My proposal would be to add a "Linux/*BSD"-like reboot and shutdown command
> to /usr/gnu/bin
>
> The traditionalist UNIX folk don't typically run /usr/gnu/bin at the front
> of their path, whilst the more progressive amongst us do. So this should
> satisfy both parties.
>
> When I was switching from a Linux/FreeBSD background to Solaris, I found the
> unnecessarily complicated reboot/shutdown situation highly frustrating.
> Typing "init 6" and "init 5" when you mean "reboot" and "shutdown" seemed
> utterly bizarre, and stupid, and angered me.
>
> Rather than do a half-baked shell script that wraps the existing tools, I
> think we should probably do a bit more research and implement something a
> bit more "proper" with similar FreeBSD/Linux like syntax (depending on what
> that syntax is - I haven't looked in a while).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alasdair
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Alasdair Lumsden]

Hi Jonathan,

On 28/03/2011 16:11, Jonathan Adams wrote:

I assumed that since it was announced to discuss that it was getting
close and you just wanted more people to boot and test.

how close to "production" do you feel we are?


oi-148 + Illumos won't actually make it to a public release; it's a 
launchpad for something newer.


If you would like to test it, please go ahead, but just heed the 
warnings that it's more experimental than the usual /dev repo :-)


We would appreciate public feedback on this, but people just need to be 
aware it's a test repo rather than a /dev release.


Cheers,

Alasdair

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Jonathan Adams]

I assumed that since it was announced to discuss that it was getting
close and you just wanted more people to boot and test.

how close to "production" do you feel we are?

On 28 March 2011 16:06, Alasdair Lumsden  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> This is an internal test and development repo for a forthcoming release;
> it's not a release in and of itself, so please don't update your day to day
> workstations to this.
>
> Only install this if you're interested in developing OpenIndiana+Illumos and
> know what you're doing.
>
> If you don't know what this repo is, please don't use it.
>
> (We should probably have announced this to oi-dev rather than oi-discuss -
> sorry!)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alasdair
>
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[OpenIndiana-discuss] reboot/shutdown commands (Was: Re: OI boot problem)

[Alasdair Lumsden]

Hi All,

My proposal would be to add a "Linux/*BSD"-like reboot and shutdown 
command to /usr/gnu/bin


The traditionalist UNIX folk don't typically run /usr/gnu/bin at the 
front of their path, whilst the more progressive amongst us do. So this 
should satisfy both parties.


When I was switching from a Linux/FreeBSD background to Solaris, I found 
the unnecessarily complicated reboot/shutdown situation highly 
frustrating. Typing "init 6" and "init 5" when you mean "reboot" and 
"shutdown" seemed utterly bizarre, and stupid, and angered me.


Rather than do a half-baked shell script that wraps the existing tools, 
I think we should probably do a bit more research and implement 
something a bit more "proper" with similar FreeBSD/Linux like syntax 
(depending on what that syntax is - I haven't looked in a while).


Cheers,

Alasdair


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Alasdair Lumsden]

Hi All,

This is an internal test and development repo for a forthcoming release; 
it's not a release in and of itself, so please don't update your day to 
day workstations to this.


Only install this if you're interested in developing OpenIndiana+Illumos 
and know what you're doing.


If you don't know what this repo is, please don't use it.

(We should probably have announced this to oi-dev rather than oi-discuss 
- sorry!)


Cheers,

Alasdair

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Jonathan Adams]

Woo, sorry for being thick :)

jadams@jadlaptop:~$ more /etc/release
 OpenIndiana Development oi_148b X86 (powered by illumos)
Copyright 2010 Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved.
Use is subject to license terms.
   Assembled 27 March 2011

(attached is a text file of what I typed and most of the output I got,
if it helps anyone.)
On 28 March 2011 15:36, Andrzej Szeszo  wrote:
> Hi Ken
>
> 1. illumos-gate used is up to changeset de40bba6236d, so up to Mar 22
>
> 2. The repo contains the same fixes as OI_148
>
> Andrzej
>
> On 03/28/11 03:10 PM, ken mays wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrzej,
>>
>> This is great.
>>
>> 1. Does this include all illumos-gate changesets up to Mar 23 (i.e.
>> illumos-current)?
>>
>> 2. All known bug fixes from OI_147, OI_148 legacy, and OI-148a included
>> this time in this repo?
>>
>> ~ Ken Mays
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 28 March 2011 14:14,  Szeszo
>>> wrote:

 Hi All,

 We have a new test repo available at:

 http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il

 illumos is properly integrated now. Perl 5.8.4 is
>>>
>>> gone. JDS and SFW have

 been rebuilt with the updated /usr/bin/perl symlink.

 Please image-update, test and report any issues.

 Regards,

 Andrzej


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Gregory Youngblood]

I did something similar, my bash profile looked at os,  hostname, and couple of 
other details and sourced appropriate files to build my user environment. This 
way I had same basic set of bash files on multiple machines between work & 
home, spanning Solaris, linux, and mac. 

Sent from my Droid Incredible.

- Reply message -
From: "Reginald Beardsley" 
Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:38 am
Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem
To: "Discussion list for OpenIndiana" 

FWIW

There is no justification for breaking the expectations of long time SunOS 
users because some other system does things differently.  The all too common 
practice of gratuitously breaking things because some twit thinks it should be 
different is why I don't like Gnu/Linux.

At one time, my work account mounted via NFS on 6 different flavors of Unix: 
AIX, SunOS, HP-UX. Irix, Ultrix and Clix (Intergraph's Sys V).  Because I 
typically had windows open on at least 4 or 5 of these at any time I had seven 
bin directories in ${HOME} to deal w/ this.

${HOME}/bin  - shell scripts that were system neutral

${HOME}/${ARCH}/bin - system specific scripts and links to preferred 
executables (e.g.  ${HOME}/SunOS/bin/df -> /usr/ucb/df )

This allowed me to make all the systems behave as I expected w/o further 
thought.  If I encountered a discrepancy I made the appropriate adjustment and 
went back to work.

SunOS has a long history of providing many flavors of commands. No one will 
object to adding a few.  However, changing the behavior of commands that have 
been around for 20+ years really doesn't make any sense.  Many of these are the 
way they are for very specific reasons.  Just because some group of users or 
potential users doesn't understand why is not a reason to change them.  If you 
feel compelled to disagree, please read
"Unix Style or cat -v Considered Harmful" first.

http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/

There is certainly justification for a man page explaining the salient 
differences between Solaris and other systems.  But changing OpenIndiana to be 
something else is not a good idea.

Please note, I am not opposed to the deletion of features that have been 
deprecated for many years.  We desperately need to do that.  The partially 
completed transitions to new admin tools (e.g. smf(5)) can be really maddening 
if you're poking around something you don't deal w/ often.  Printer admin is 
pretty confusing w/ lp, lpr and cups all mashed up together.

But turning OpenIndiana into a Gnu/Linux  or *BSD distro won't get a larger 
user base.  Rather it will result in a smaller user base.

Have Fun!
Reg



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Reginald Beardsley]

FWIW

There is no justification for breaking the expectations of long time SunOS 
users because some other system does things differently.  The all too common 
practice of gratuitously breaking things because some twit thinks it should be 
different is why I don't like Gnu/Linux.

At one time, my work account mounted via NFS on 6 different flavors of Unix: 
AIX, SunOS, HP-UX. Irix, Ultrix and Clix (Intergraph's Sys V).  Because I 
typically had windows open on at least 4 or 5 of these at any time I had seven 
bin directories in ${HOME} to deal w/ this.

${HOME}/bin  - shell scripts that were system neutral

${HOME}/${ARCH}/bin - system specific scripts and links to preferred 
executables (e.g.  ${HOME}/SunOS/bin/df -> /usr/ucb/df )

This allowed me to make all the systems behave as I expected w/o further 
thought.  If I encountered a discrepancy I made the appropriate adjustment and 
went back to work.

SunOS has a long history of providing many flavors of commands. No one will 
object to adding a few.  However, changing the behavior of commands that have 
been around for 20+ years really doesn't make any sense.  Many of these are the 
way they are for very specific reasons.  Just because some group of users or 
potential users doesn't understand why is not a reason to change them.  If you 
feel compelled to disagree, please read
"Unix Style or cat -v Considered Harmful" first.

http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/

There is certainly justification for a man page explaining the salient 
differences between Solaris and other systems.  But changing OpenIndiana to be 
something else is not a good idea.

Please note, I am not opposed to the deletion of features that have been 
deprecated for many years.  We desperately need to do that.  The partially 
completed transitions to new admin tools (e.g. smf(5)) can be really maddening 
if you're poking around something you don't deal w/ often.  Printer admin is 
pretty confusing w/ lp, lpr and cups all mashed up together.

But turning OpenIndiana into a Gnu/Linux  or *BSD distro won't get a larger 
user base.  Rather it will result in a smaller user base.

Have Fun!
Reg



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Andrzej Szeszo]

Hi Ken

1. illumos-gate used is up to changeset de40bba6236d, so up to Mar 22

2. The repo contains the same fixes as OI_148

Andrzej

On 03/28/11 03:10 PM, ken mays wrote:

Hi Andrzej,

This is great.

1. Does this include all illumos-gate changesets up to Mar 23 (i.e. 
illumos-current)?

2. All known bug fixes from OI_147, OI_148 legacy, and OI-148a included this 
time in this repo?

~ Ken Mays




On 28 March 2011 14:14,  Szeszo
wrote:

Hi All,

We have a new test repo available at:

http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il

illumos is properly integrated now. Perl 5.8.4 is

gone. JDS and SFW have

been rebuilt with the updated /usr/bin/perl symlink.

Please image-update, test and report any issues.

Regards,

Andrzej


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Gregory Youngblood]

Gary Generous wrote:
The problem is always legacy stuff.  If you change the behaviors then 
expect that things that people wrote for Solaris to fail.  For example, 
napp-it, webmin, etc.

The only acceptable solution for me is to put all the Linux compatible 
stuff somewhere and let the sysadmin decide whether he wants to put that first 
in the PATH.)


This seems the sanest. Personally I do not think the default behavior should be 
changed to placate linux,  mac, or anyone else at the expense of Solaris 
compatibility. 

Many years ago, 2.4 I think, one of my projects was building full set of gnu 
and other non Solaris tools that were ultimately mounted on all machines. Users 
could then adjust their own path and environment to have those appear first and 
get different results. This also meant scripts counting on Solaris or gnu tools 
had to either modify the path of most often include full paths to each tool to 
make sure the correct version would run. 

I think the same should work here. 

Perhaps going a bit further, at install time the user could select a linux 
compatibility mode of sorts that would put the appropriate dirs in the path 
first, along with the reminder that tools and scripts expecting Solaris 
behaviors may break as a result. A quick & simple personality tool could switch 
path order for the user when that occurs. 

Of course this will require a lot of extra work to build into a system, at 
least beyond what /usr/gnu already has, and I think there are many other areas 
that need attention first. Definitely think this or something similar should 
get stuck on a to do somewhere though. 
 
Greg

Sent from my Droid Incredible.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Toomas Soome]

On 28.03.2011, at 16:53, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:

>>> This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.
>> 
>> The reboot command most certainly does do exactly what I expect it to
>> do, and what it has been successfully doing for years.  It may not do
>> what *you* expected it to do, but you know different now?
>> 
>  
> Really? Do you know how many times my system became useless
> just because I had used reboot? 
> 


how about killall command? :P

toomas

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[ken mays]

Hi Andrzej,

This is great. 

1. Does this include all illumos-gate changesets up to Mar 23 (i.e. 
illumos-current)?

2. All known bug fixes from OI_147, OI_148 legacy, and OI-148a included this 
time in this repo?
 
~ Ken Mays



> On 28 March 2011 14:14,  Szeszo 
> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We have a new test repo available at:
> >
> > http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il
> >
> > illumos is properly integrated now. Perl 5.8.4 is
> gone. JDS and SFW have
> > been rebuilt with the updated /usr/bin/perl symlink.
> >
> > Please image-update, test and report any issues.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Andrzej
> >
> >
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Jonathan Adams]

Didn't work ... for some reason I can't have 2 repositories at the
same site ... and it kept the original OpenIndiana one, silently.

On 28 March 2011 15:01, Nikola M.  wrote:
> On 03/28/11 03:14 PM, Andrzej Szeszo wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We have a new test repo available at:
>>
>> http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il
>
> Hi, can I do image-update with that package publisher enabled in oi_147?
> Will I have basically 148+Illumos after doing image-update from 147?
>
> Since oi_148 would not boot on my machine.(both updated from snv_134 or
> oi_147)
>
> Can I somehow update OI_148 BE with bits from oi_147 updated with
> pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il and try to boot it after that?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Al Slater]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 28/03/2011 14:53, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
>>> This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.
>>
>> The reboot command most certainly does do exactly what I expect it to
>> do, and what it has been successfully doing for years.  It may not do
>> what *you* expected it to do, but you know different now?
>>
>  
> Really? Do you know how many times my system became useless
> just because I had used reboot? 

Nope.  But I have used it 1000s of times on test and production systems
and have never managed to render a system useless.


- -- 
Al Slater

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (SunOS)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk2QlW0ACgkQz4fTOFL/EDbrUQCfW8QvT/8dAq1B/XEUC2eNL4V3
zmMAnAupfU9QcHrNntiOnXdCuXFUJffh
=qDoA
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Nikola M.]

On 03/28/11 03:14 PM, Andrzej Szeszo wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have a new test repo available at:
>
> http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il

Hi, can I do image-update with that package publisher enabled in oi_147?
Will I have basically 148+Illumos after doing image-update from 147?

Since oi_148 would not boot on my machine.(both updated from snv_134 or
oi_147)

Can I somehow update OI_148 BE with bits from oi_147 updated with
pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il and try to boot it after that?

Thanks a lot.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> > This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.
> 
> The reboot command most certainly does do exactly what I expect it to
> do, and what it has been successfully doing for years.  It may not do
> what *you* expected it to do, but you know different now?
> 
 
Really? Do you know how many times my system became useless
just because I had used reboot? 

A.S.


--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Jonathan Adams]

done ... can't notice any changes, so I'd say "Good job" ...

how can I tell if I'm using Illumos?

Jon

On 28 March 2011 14:14, Andrzej Szeszo  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have a new test repo available at:
>
> http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il
>
> illumos is properly integrated now. Perl 5.8.4 is gone. JDS and SFW have
> been rebuilt with the updated /usr/bin/perl symlink.
>
> Please image-update, test and report any issues.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrzej
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Volker A. Brandt]

Nikola M. writes:
> Do you support any change from the way that it is done now by default?
> How about proposed by Guido:
> > If you really care we could create some shutdown/halt/reboot
> > wrappers in /usr/gnu/bin which just call /usr/bin/shutdown with
> > the appropriate options, should be simple.

i certainly would not mind.  I have /usr/gnu/bin somewhere at the
end of my $PATH anyway. :-)  Or maybe "/usr/linuxcompat" or something
like that...


Gary Gendel writes:
> So we could make this an "install-time" option.  It should provide a 
> nice big warning that doing this may break applications written for 
> (Open)Solaris.  If they still want to go forward then they have been 
> dutifully warned.

Yes.  This could be in a separate package.


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Gary Gendel]

On 3/28/11 9:34 AM, Volker A. Brandt wrote:

The problem is always legacy stuff.  If you change the behaviors then
expect that things that people wrote for Solaris to fail.  For example,
napp-it, webmin, etc.
 

You are quite correct.

   

The only acceptable solution for me is to put all the Linux compatible
stuff somewhere and let the sysadmin decide whether he wants to put that
first in the PATH.  Isn't this how Solaris handled the BSD equivalents
(/usr/ucb/).  I used that until I got comfortable with the SysV
replacements when we migrated from SunOS to Solaris.
 

That would be one solution to the problem.  But it seems that the
argument of the Linux-over-Legacy-Solaris factions is that this
should be shipped enabled, and taking precedence.
   
So we could make this an "install-time" option.  It should provide a 
nice big warning that doing this may break applications written for 
(Open)Solaris.  If they still want to go forward then they have been 
dutifully warned.


Gary


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Windows ACL issue with CIFS

[Joe Porter]

 
Any further thoughts on this?


--

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:30:13 -0400
From: Gordon Ross 
To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana

Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Windows ACL issue with CIFS
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

2011/3/22 Joe Porter :
> Hello all,
>
> I've installed a testbed OpenIndiana (SunOS openindiana 5.11 oi_147
> i86pc i386 i86pc) test box, and I'm trying to set up the CIFS so I can
> dump some backup files onto it using robocopy.
>
> I'm having the same issues as http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/c
> ... 01908.html
>
 l>
>
> And http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa ... eID=295565
> 
>
> Here is my CIFS folder:
>
> basic unix and acl folder permissions /test/share: (set other acl's
from
> your windows computer)
> drwxrwxrwx+ 4 root root 4 Mar 11 11:58 /test/share
> user:root:full_set:fd-:allow
> group:2147483671:full_set:fd-:allow
> everyone@:modify_set:fd-:allow
>
> I connected to the device thru Windows MMC and set full Domain Admins
> rights on the Share and Security tabs of the share.
>
> your current mappings: idmap list
> add winuser:administrator at petroliance.local unixuser:root
> add winuser:*@petroliance.local unixuser:*
> add wingroup:*@petroliance.local unixgroup:*
>
> So, I removed and re-created the file sahre:
>
> chmod 777 /fstest
> chmod A=everyone@:rwxpdDaARWcCos:fd:allow /pool/fstest
>
> Now we have :
>
> drwxrwxrwx+ 3 root root 3 Mar 17 07:42 /test/fstest
> group:2147483650:full_set:fd-:allow
> everyone@:full_set:fd-:allow
> group:2147483670:full_set:fd-:allow
>
>
> Running a CIFS dtrace:
[...]

Is "unresolvable SID mapping" enabled?  Check with:
 svccfg -s idmap listprop config/unresolvable_sid_mapping

and if it's not set, set it with:
 svccfg -s idmap setprop config/unresolvable_sid_mapping = boolean: true
 svcadm refresh idmap

If that that, perhaps another idmap problem...


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/28/11 03:27 PM, Volker A. Brandt wrote:

> There are two "families" of commands:
>  - init and shutdown (shutdown is a script that calls init)
>  - halt, poweroff, and reboot (they are hardlinks to one binary)
> 
> Please look at:
> 
>   init(1M)
>   shutdown(1M)
>   halt(1M)  (the same man page as poweroff)
>   reboot(1M)
Thanks Volker,
I just re-checked them all with man command.

Do you support any change from the way that it is done now by default?
How about proposed by Guido:
> If you really care we could create some shutdown/halt/reboot
> wrappers in /usr/gnu/bin which just call /usr/bin/shutdown with
> the appropriate options, should be simple.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Volker A. Brandt]

> The problem is always legacy stuff.  If you change the behaviors then 
> expect that things that people wrote for Solaris to fail.  For example, 
> napp-it, webmin, etc.

You are quite correct.
 
> The only acceptable solution for me is to put all the Linux compatible 
> stuff somewhere and let the sysadmin decide whether he wants to put that 
> first in the PATH.  Isn't this how Solaris handled the BSD equivalents 
> (/usr/ucb/).  I used that until I got comfortable with the SysV 
> replacements when we migrated from SunOS to Solaris.

That would be one solution to the problem.  But it seems that the
argument of the Linux-over-Legacy-Solaris factions is that this
should be shipped enabled, and taking precedence.

I guess it boils down to the question:  Should OI remain true to
the "old" Solaris, or should it run after the Linux crowd that
doesn't bother with OI anyway?   My opinion can be derived from
the way I phrased the question. :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Al Slater]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 28/03/2011 13:58, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
>> The shutdown command certainly is not broken.  If indeed the Linux
>> newbie must be catered to, then we can change the defaults, and tell
>> them to "just use shutdown".
> 
> This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.

The reboot command most certainly does do exactly what I expect it to
do, and what it has been successfully doing for years.  It may not do
what *you* expected it to do, but you know different now?

- -- 
Al Slater

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Volker A. Brandt]

Nikola M. writes:
> On 03/28/11 01:31 PM, Toomas Soome wrote:
> in opensolaris based distributions you *can* now use reboot as well,
> which was updated to be safe, but its *not* safe for solaris 10 or older
> ones.  if its still too hard to understand, you can always just use
> shutdown from gnome system menu
> > 
> > and still, if you wanna have linux commands, just use linux.
> 
> Agreed.
> Just we need to think of expanding user base,admin and dev base
> and init X does not remind me on halt.
> 
> Perheaps to make turnoff alias for init 5 (or 6)?
> Do you think that present halt command could be made to shutdown power
> to machine by default in OpenSolaris based distributions?
> Or to change shutdown default behavior?
> 
> I think present reboot command can not shut down machine or I am wrong?

There are two "families" of commands:

 - init and shutdown (shutdown is a script that calls init)
 - halt, poweroff, and reboot (they are hardlinks to one binary)

Please look at:

  init(1M)
  shutdown(1M)
  halt(1M)  (the same man page as poweroff)
  reboot(1M)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/28/11 01:12 PM, Volker A. Brandt wrote:
> Hello Nikola!
Hi! Thank you for your response.
>> I figured that out by being stubborn and looking at man pages, and that
>> is what 99 percent of eventual newcomers will not do.
> While you may be right here, I fail to see the problem.  The command
> "init 6" is not so hard to find, especially when someone comes over
> from Linux.
I think that init X is mostly not connected in mind of newcomers with
shutting down machine. (At least I am pretty much scared to use it,
myself) ;)
>> If I told them that shutdown command needs 3 switches or looking at man
>> pages and remembering of them, then I would be laughed at.
> But shutdown does not need three switches.  Here are the defaults as
> defined in shutdown (it is a shell script):
>
>   grace=60
>   askconfirmation=yes
>   initstate=s
>
> So without switches, it would also work.  You'd just have to wait
> 60 seconds longer, you'd have to type "y" in response to a prompt,
> and you would end up in single user mode.
Maybe newcomers would expect to end up actually doing shutdown.
It is not problem for us who know it.
Thing is how to make new ones them to stay.
>> I think everyone is thinking that old behavior should working as
>> expected. Just There is need for a command, like /halt/ or other named
>> that definitely shutdowns machine with one command.
> Really?  Maybe the default "s" could be changed to "6".  But other
> than that, I don't see a need for another command, in addition to
> "shutdown" and "init" and "halt/reboot" and "uadmin". :-)
Yes something like that, changing something that would make easier for
new users to actually shut it down. Like, halt is shutdown that actually
do power off the hardware.
Thank you for your thougths.


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Volker A. Brandt]

> > The shutdown command certainly is not broken.  If indeed the Linux
> > newbie must be catered to, then we can change the defaults, and tell
> > them to "just use shutdown".
> 
> This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.

Sorry, I disagree.  The shutdown command has been doing what I expect
it to for many years.

> The GNU grep and the Solaris grep have different command line
> switches but they do exactly the same thing. The same applies to
> find, etc. So yes I think the defaults must change

Changing the default is different from changing the command.

> and the command
> should do what is supposed to do.

Well, it does already. :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Gary Gendel]

On 3/28/11 8:58 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:

The shutdown command certainly is not broken.  If indeed the Linux
newbie must be catered to, then we can change the defaults, and tell
them to "just use shutdown".
 

This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.
The GNU grep and the Solaris grep have different command line
switches but they do exactly the same thing. The same applies to
find, etc. So yes I think the defaults must change and the command
should do what is supposed to do.

A.S.
   

I think you mean "should do what is suppose to do on Linux".

I'm really unhappy about this thread.  This is a real conundrum as there 
are a lot of these differences.  For example, init 0 on Linux vs init 5 
on Solaris and init 5 vs init 6.  I'm not sure if all of them can be 
resolved for everyone.  I came from the other end...  A long time 
Solaris admin going to Linux.  Why didn't everyone scream that Linux 
doesn't do the right thing?


The problem is always legacy stuff.  If you change the behaviors then 
expect that things that people wrote for Solaris to fail.  For example, 
napp-it, webmin, etc.


The only acceptable solution for me is to put all the Linux compatible 
stuff somewhere and let the sysadmin decide whether he wants to put that 
first in the PATH.  Isn't this how Solaris handled the BSD equivalents 
(/usr/ucb/).  I used that until I got comfortable with the SysV 
replacements when we migrated from SunOS to Solaris.


Gary


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[OpenIndiana-discuss] New illumos based OpenIndiana test repo

[Andrzej Szeszo]

Hi All,

We have a new test repo available at:

http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il

illumos is properly integrated now. Perl 5.8.4 is gone. JDS and SFW have 
been rebuilt with the updated /usr/bin/perl symlink.


Please image-update, test and report any issues.

Regards,

Andrzej


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/28/11 01:31 PM, Toomas Soome wrote:
in opensolaris based distributions you *can* now use reboot as well,
which was updated to be safe, but its *not* safe for solaris 10 or older
ones.  if its still too hard to understand, you can always just use
shutdown from gnome system menu
> 
> and still, if you wanna have linux commands, just use linux.

Agreed.
Just we need to think of expanding user base,admin and dev base
and init X does not remind me on halt.

Perheaps to make turnoff alias for init 5 (or 6)?
Do you think that present halt command could be made to shutdown power
to machine by default in OpenSolaris based distributions?
Or to change shutdown default behavior?

I think present reboot command can not shut down machine or I am wrong?

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Fw: Re: ATI radeon hd 6850 gnome issue

[Mikolaj Walkiewicz]

"Well since it is know that only the nvidia cards and the
Intel-thing work, I just wonder why people who intend to
use Solaris buy ATI graphics cards?"

Maybe because besides Solaris they got other operating systems and maybe for
multimedia/games purposes ? ... ATI card was the best optimal choice for my
hardware, shame that I didn't check how it works with Solaris.

-- 
Best regards/Pozdrawiam,

Mikołaj Wałkiewicz

:: mikolaj.walkiew...@gmail.com
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> The shutdown command certainly is not broken.  If indeed the Linux
> newbie must be catered to, then we can change the defaults, and tell
> them to "just use shutdown".

This command does not do the expected thing and that is the problem.
The GNU grep and the Solaris grep have different command line
switches but they do exactly the same thing. The same applies to
find, etc. So yes I think the defaults must change and the command
should do what is supposed to do.

A.S.

 

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> 
> That strikes me as a trifle contrived -  copying a file is a regular 
> occurrence, 
> and rebooting a non-desktop machine isn't. (Unless you're doing 
> something badly wrong)
> 
 
This is what one would call a fallacy! I am not comparing the two actions.
What I say is that it must be easy to perform either action. In different 
words, 
the command for rebooting a system should be as obvious is the command for
file copying.

A.S.


--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Volker A. Brandt]

> Of course it is not a 
> solution to remember seven switches to perform a simply task.

You can accept the defaults, then you need none -- or maybe one.

> What if 
> someone would tell you that in Solaris one needs to enter
> 
> $ copy -x4 -z7 -q66 original_file new_file
> 
> to copy a file?

You are missing the point.  If something needs to be done regularly
on the command line, with always the same switches, then use a shell
alias.  Yes, I have one for cp. :-)  (It's "cp -ip".)

The shutdown command certainly is not broken.  If indeed the Linux
newbie must be catered to, then we can change the defaults, and tell
them to "just use shutdown".


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Tom Kranz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 28 Mar 2011, at 13:02, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:

>  
> By following this train of thought one could say that if one wants a decent 
> desktop he should use MacOS, or if one wants some other facility he should
> use Linux, etc. To me this is simply unacceptable! If the reboot command 
> is buggy/stupid/inappropiate, it should be replaced. Of course it is not a 
> solution to remember seven switches to perform a simply task. What if 
> someone would tell you that in Solaris one needs to enter
> 
> $ copy -x4 -z7 -q66 original_file new_file
> 
> to copy a file?


That strikes me as a trifle contrived -  copying a file is a regular 
occurrence, and rebooting a non-desktop machine isn't. (Unless you're doing 
something badly wrong)

Cheers,
TOM

- --
Tom Kranz
Email: t...@gaeltd.com  Skype: siliconbunny
Mobile: 07779 149281Phone/fax: 01344 773240
http://www.gaeltd.com   http://www.linkedin.com/in/tomkranz




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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> 
> and still, if you wanna have linux commands, just use linux.
> 
 
By following this train of thought one could say that if one wants a decent 
desktop he should use MacOS, or if one wants some other facility he should
use Linux, etc. To me this is simply unacceptable! If the reboot command 
is buggy/stupid/inappropiate, it should be replaced. Of course it is not a 
solution to remember seven switches to perform a simply task. What if 
someone would tell you that in Solaris one needs to enter

$ copy -x4 -z7 -q66 original_file new_file

to copy a file?

A.S.


--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Guido Berhoerster]

* Alasdair Lumsden  [2011-03-26 21:20]:
> Excuse the top-posting, I'm on my Blackberry...
> 
> I've always found the default solaris reboot and shutdown commands a 'pain in 
> the ass'.
> 
> I doubt there are many systems out there that would be broken by an 
> adjustment to the default reboot and shutdown behaviour to bring them more in 
> line with BSD and Linux.
> 
> What do others think? 

If you really care we could create some shutdown/halt/reboot
wrappers in /usr/gnu/bin which just call /usr/bin/shutdown with
the appropriate options, should be simple.

-- 
Guido Berhoerster

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Toomas Soome]

On 28.03.2011, at 13:58, Nikola M. wrote:

> On 03/27/11 07:56 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
> 
>>> I agree. It is surprising that the Indiana project attempted to make 
>>> Solaris more Linux-like and then left some obviously different commands 
>>> around.
>>> Perhaps adding /usr/gnu/bin/reboot etc would be a compatible way to fix 
>>> this?
>>> Chris
>> 
>> Well I've always found anything other than the System V way of doing things 
>> to be
>> amateur hour.
>> 
>> Compatibility isn't just with scripts, it's with people too.
>> 
>> Besides, what's so hard to remember about
>> shutdown -i6 -y -g0?
> 
> Well, I agree that remembering
> shutdown -g 0 -y -i 5 for shutdown machine is not that hard.
> 
> BUT that is the question I was asked from newcomers a year ago
> (Obviously you know where newcomers are coming from.. from Linux and
> very few quite new ones) and I did not told them because I also did not
> know. (I told him pfexec halt and he was angry at me and whole
> distribution for not doing full shutdown).
> I figured that out by being stubborn and looking at man pages, and that
> is what 99 percent of eventual newcomers will not do.
> 
> If I told them that shutdown command needs 3 switches or looking at man
> pages and remembering of them, then I would be laughed at.
> 
> I think everyone is thinking that old behavior should working as
> expected. Just There is need for a command, like /halt/ or other named
> that definitely shutdowns machine with one command.


shutdown command (script) is to make it possible to generate announces and 
grace time. thats all about it. the "correct" fast way in solaris is to use 
init command. in opensolaris based distributions you *can* now use reboot as 
well, which was updated to be safe, but its *not* safe for solaris 10 or older 
ones.  if its still too hard to understand, you can always just use shutdown 
from gnome system menu 

and still, if you wanna have linux commands, just use linux.

toomas

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Volker A. Brandt]

Hello Nikola!


> Well, I agree that remembering
> shutdown -g 0 -y -i 5 for shutdown machine is not that hard.
>
> BUT that is the question I was asked from newcomers a year ago
> (Obviously you know where newcomers are coming from.. from Linux and
> very few quite new ones) and I did not told them because I also did not
> know. (I told him pfexec halt and he was angry at me and whole
> distribution for not doing full shutdown).
> I figured that out by being stubborn and looking at man pages, and that
> is what 99 percent of eventual newcomers will not do.

While you may be right here, I fail to see the problem.  The command
"init 6" is not so hard to find, especially when someone comes over
from Linux.

> If I told them that shutdown command needs 3 switches or looking at man
> pages and remembering of them, then I would be laughed at.

But shutdown does not need three switches.  Here are the defaults as
defined in shutdown (it is a shell script):

  grace=60
  askconfirmation=yes
  initstate=s

So without switches, it would also work.  You'd just have to wait
60 seconds longer, you'd have to type "y" in response to a prompt,
and you would end up in single user mode.

> I think everyone is thinking that old behavior should working as
> expected. Just There is need for a command, like /halt/ or other named
> that definitely shutdowns machine with one command.

Really?  Maybe the default "s" could be changed to "6".  But other
than that, I don't see a need for another command, in addition to
"shutdown" and "init" and "halt/reboot" and "uadmin". :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/26/11 09:20 PM, Alasdair Lumsden wrote:
> What do others think? 
>
> Alasdair.
+ for it. Like new command or new switch or something else.

Together with making old users happy with their known default behavior
where it is.
But newcomers I suppose are more/most important.


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Nikola M.]

On 03/27/11 07:56 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:

>> I agree. It is surprising that the Indiana project attempted to make Solaris 
>> more Linux-like and then left some obviously different commands around.
>> Perhaps adding /usr/gnu/bin/reboot etc would be a compatible way to fix this?
>> Chris
> 
> Well I've always found anything other than the System V way of doing things 
> to be
> amateur hour.
> 
> Compatibility isn't just with scripts, it's with people too.
> 
> Besides, what's so hard to remember about
> shutdown -i6 -y -g0?

Well, I agree that remembering
shutdown -g 0 -y -i 5 for shutdown machine is not that hard.

BUT that is the question I was asked from newcomers a year ago
(Obviously you know where newcomers are coming from.. from Linux and
very few quite new ones) and I did not told them because I also did not
know. (I told him pfexec halt and he was angry at me and whole
distribution for not doing full shutdown).
I figured that out by being stubborn and looking at man pages, and that
is what 99 percent of eventual newcomers will not do.

If I told them that shutdown command needs 3 switches or looking at man
pages and remembering of them, then I would be laughed at.

I think everyone is thinking that old behavior should working as
expected. Just There is need for a command, like /halt/ or other named
that definitely shutdowns machine with one command.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Witek Świerzy]

Hello,

This is my second post to this mailing list, - so Hello to All,
and - additionally - some thoughts :

> I doubt there are many systems out there that would be broken by an
adjustment to the default reboot and shutdown behaviour
I agree, but 
>to bring them more in line with BSD and Linux.
Rather Linux guys should think about some standards ...
and finally :
>Never used them ;-) init 6 to reboot, init 0 to go to OBP, and init 5 to
power off.
exactly :)

thanks,

Witek Swierzy



On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tom Kranz  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> On 26 Mar 2011, at 20:20, Alasdair Lumsden wrote:
>
> > Excuse the top-posting, I'm on my Blackberry...
> >
> > I've always found the default solaris reboot and shutdown commands a
> 'pain in the ass'.
> >
> > I doubt there are many systems out there that would be broken by an
> adjustment to the default reboot and shutdown behaviour to bring them more
> in line with BSD and Linux.
> >
> > What do others think?
>
>
> Never used them ;-) init 6 to reboot, init 0 to go to OBP, and init 5 to
> power off.
>
> Cheers,
> TOM
>
> - --
> Tom Kranz
> Email: t...@gaeltd.com   Skype: siliconbunny
> Mobile: 07779 149281Phone/fax: 01344 773240
> http://www.gaeltd.com   http://www.linkedin.com/in/tomkranz
>
>
>
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> bqwAnRKv6LNY5e1cyETIK+AWcKQW8Nfd
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>
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>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Toomas Soome]

On 28.03.2011, at 11:39, Tom Kranz wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> On 26 Mar 2011, at 20:20, Alasdair Lumsden wrote:
> 
>> Excuse the top-posting, I'm on my Blackberry...
>> 
>> I've always found the default solaris reboot and shutdown commands a 'pain 
>> in the ass'.
>> 
>> I doubt there are many systems out there that would be broken by an 
>> adjustment to the default reboot and shutdown behaviour to bring them more 
>> in line with BSD and Linux.
>> 
>> What do others think? 
> 
> 
> Never used them ;-) init 6 to reboot, init 0 to go to OBP, and init 5 to 
> power off.
> 

just for an reminder, solaris is neither bsd nor linux. 

toomas


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI boot problem

[Tom Kranz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 26 Mar 2011, at 20:20, Alasdair Lumsden wrote:

> Excuse the top-posting, I'm on my Blackberry...
> 
> I've always found the default solaris reboot and shutdown commands a 'pain in 
> the ass'.
> 
> I doubt there are many systems out there that would be broken by an 
> adjustment to the default reboot and shutdown behaviour to bring them more in 
> line with BSD and Linux.
> 
> What do others think? 


Never used them ;-) init 6 to reboot, init 0 to go to OBP, and init 5 to power 
off.

Cheers,
TOM

- --
Tom Kranz
Email: t...@gaeltd.com  Skype: siliconbunny
Mobile: 07779 149281Phone/fax: 01344 773240
http://www.gaeltd.com   http://www.linkedin.com/in/tomkranz




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=ZnZE
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Fw: Re: ATI radeon hd 6850 gnome issue

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

>>"Alan (from Oracle) mentioned the ATI/AMD Radeon HD 6xxx are 'unsupported'
>>on Solaris 11 and OpenIndiana_148 at this time. Heed the warning!"
>
>So that's not a good news.


Well since it is know that only the nvidia cards and the
Intel-thing work, I just wonder why people who intend to
use Solaris buy ATI graphics cards? 


A.S.


PS VESA is not an option!!!

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece



  

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