Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
On 01/29/17 12:53 AM, Adam Števko wrote: Hello, Of course it is related to OI and there is no other list to mention it on actually, that is closer to the topic. I don't think asking people not to discuss and talk is positive community influence, asking people to shut up is an negative influence. No, it is not. If Oracle decides to stop developing Solaris we can do nothing about. Yes it is. And Oracle is not stopping of supporting and developing Solaris, that is just again repeating misleading news outlets inventions. I am not asking people to stop discussing. I am asking then stop discussing about something, we: However you call it, it is just rude and inappropriate and as said goes out of the scope and decency. If you don't want to stop people discussing, then you just don't do it. 1) have no control over and is useless to debate It's your opinion thank you for it but it is just that.. Someone could argue that even more useless is calling people and their discussion useless. That is by definition totally useless. 2) facts are misinterpreted as Alan pointed out That IS the point and that is the point of discussion, to show that news on internet is full of sh. and who is going to tell people about it then those interested in it and sharing the code with it. If that energy was spent working on the project itself, we would be accomplish more. There are around 30 pull requests on github, which are pending review / testing and no one has replied to my threads when I asked people for review. It is great to support people spending energy on positive things, however, preaching silence , non interaction and robotized goal-seek behavior is not what vibrant and open community is. As you are supposedly to learn from this discussion, you can't force people doing things, one can motivate and responding to every topic you are not interested in by stopping discussion by force is not good for you nor anyone. The fact that OI uses IPS/Xorg from Oracle Solaris does not mean that those repositories will vanish overnight if Oracle stop producing updates Where did you get it that Oracle would stop producing updates to it's open-source parts? It is just adding to the media bias and adding to assumptions. (we still have copy of those). Our IPS is not the same as in Oracle Solaris and having up to date version on OI would be great. There are also a few problems with getting older IPS features (e.g. zone proxy) working on OI. Why do people tend to waste time with useless debates? There is work to be done.. Because talks (not debates) are needed to inform, exchange ideas, correct one another , learn new things from one another, organize, support, getting to know each other and all the things that make human communication usable in everyday life. Life is not all work work work, but people tend to find better ways of doing things, by communicating. And you should not bash people calling them wasting time. If people talk talk talk and then get some ideas and do something new that is the way of inclusion of the new people. No one gets included before at least talking with someone. It is important to talk about general Solaris and Opensolaris-descendent ecosystem, where, for example, SpecFilesExtra on sfe.opencsw.org and PkgBuild project is building software for both illumos and IPS distros, including Openindiana and at the same time, tend to have same 'recepies' usable on Solaris too. So we still share up to the point ecosystem, people and systems with Solaris and one can say we are all Solaris folks since maintaining and managing haven't diverge too much over time. Eh, if somebody is bashing OI somewhere, you should debate it there, so others can see it. Debating it on this mailing list is of no use (as not everybody is following it) Yes, but is is also important to have facts straight in home place, because if it not told and sorted out that that "Solaris going away" mantra is total bullshit (not untill 2031/34 at least..) then how is it suppose to be said elsewhere. Of course reaction need to be there (if reactions are not intentionally stopped or something) and people are supposed to have more freedom on their own distro mailing list in discussing then, without anyone gagging them even here. So talking is of very big use, people get things straight, get more informed with right facts. Actually talking to people to stop talking is an form of trolling. illumos and Openindiana does not compete with Solaris, they each have they use cases and support models. It doesn’t as illumos has much smaller user base as Solaris does and illumos never had a goal to compete with Solaris. illumos’ ancestry is just an advantage for us, but it doesn’t mean that Solaris affects us anyhow, Of course it is affecting us as users of what happens with Solaris. People using illumos are not only coming form Linux landscape, but same people using Solaris are
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
Hello, > Of course it is related to OI and there is no other list to mention it on > actually, that is closer to the topic. > I don't think asking people not to discuss and talk is positive community > influence, asking people to shut up is an negative influence. No, it is not. If Oracle decides to stop developing Solaris we can do nothing about. I am not asking people to stop discussing. I am asking then stop discussing about something, we: 1) have no control over and is useless to debate 2) facts are misinterpreted as Alan pointed out If that energy was spent working on the project itself, we would be accomplish more. There are around 30 pull requests on github, which are pending review / testing and no one has replied to my threads when I asked people for review. >> I know that many people still care about Solaris and what happens to it, >> but please get over it. > > Oi iteslf uses IPS for packages, uses Xorg and many other things are shared > with Oracle Solaris open source released components. > It is that Solaris supported nature and shared code up to illumos birth, > makes it very interesting topic for OI/illumos, sharing in most cases users > pool, where some people might run illumos/Openindiana on some machines or > Solaris on others. The fact that OI uses IPS/Xorg from Oracle Solaris does not mean that those repositories will vanish overnight if Oracle stop producing updates (we still have copy of those). Our IPS is not the same as in Oracle Solaris and having up to date version on OI would be great. There are also a few problems with getting older IPS features (e.g. zone proxy) working on OI. Why do people tend to waste time with useless debates? There is work to be done.. >> It's been 7 years since illumos and Solaris separated and illumos chose >> different path. illumos/OpenIndiana has it's own future and instead of >> debating Oracle business decisions, go search illumos bug tracker and report >> / fix bugs, write blog posts about illumos/OpenIndiana etc. > > On the other hand, if there is no reaction to media bashing on Solaris, next > time, random writer start to bash OI or illumos there would be no one to stop > the flood of Linux drones. Eh, if somebody is bashing OI somewhere, you should debate it there, so others can see it. Debating it on this mailing list is of no use (as not everybody is following it) > illumos and Openindiana does not compete with Solaris, they each have they > use cases and support models. It doesn’t as illumos has much smaller user base as Solaris does and illumos never had a goal to compete with Solaris. illumos’ ancestry is just an advantage for us, but it doesn’t mean that Solaris affects us anyhow, e.g. SmartOS?Nexenta are doing fine and are not related to Solaris at all. > Linux is illumos competition and Linux drones are bashing everything > non-Linux on internet news comments, so there is even more then need to react > to media bias. You should react where the bashing was published and not here. What’s the point of debating the bashing here if people who bash OI/illumos will not read it? > I would actually rather select Oracle Solaris then some corporate Linux > distro if I am forced on having dead-serious mission-critical support > contracts. > Recognizing benefits of Linux, but even after more then 8 years since > Opensolaris 2009.06, usability for serious use of any Linux distribution is > far below Openindiana/illumos. That’s just your pick. However, 99% of the market thinks differently.. > Feel free not to respond if find topic uninteresting. > For younger audience directing not to talk on public mailing lists is out of > scope of administration and forums are not the mailing lists. Messages/posts > can not go back and be deleted and one can not "lock thread" or topic, so > that is what one needs to get over, getting away people's freedom of > expression and freedom of talk. I am not saying that people shouldn’t discuss things on this mailing. I am just asking people to follow a simple rule and to discuss things related to OpenIndiana. After all, this mailing list is called OpenIndiana-discuss and neither solaris-discuss or oracle-discuss. If somebody wishes to debate one unrelated corporation’s business decision, please do so, but not on this mailing list. Thanks for understanding! Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
On 01/28/17 03:19 PM, Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss wrote: Topic name (end) is more of an mantra then something. Who's end, what to end? Basically nothing but reference to "media" bias that was published on news sites in previous days. (and we all know how sites and publicists are click-loving) Well I know that where is smoke, there is fire. Yeah or someone is making the smoke, to attract main course showing up at dinner... :) "end of the world" references are overwhelmingly culturally present to put people into fear state. OK but you have to admit that many things ended in the history of computing. And it is surely not Solaris, and not at all. In a sense it was the official forum of solaris x86 users. In good old times, I could received even 50 messages in a day. Now the list practically dead... I was hoping to learn what mailing list you think on. Some lists are intentionally squashed by their owners after receiving better offers. Etc. I exactly do not expect Solaris going anyway but being solid solution for the long-term support. This will happen only if people are paying Oracle... And they surely are paying. Big bucks for tens of years. Anyway, OpenOffice was head over to the Apache foundation and that is a good thing, yet 'rolling released' vs ' named versions' differences are also there. They could not do otherwise and that is why they gave it away. In fact, who would buy OpenOffice when LibreOffice could do the same things and it was free! There was no profit for them. And Sun used to sell StarOffice with support, even while having OpenOffice available for non-paying customers. It would be interesting to know if there is any revenue from LibreOffice support at all and who is getting payed for support, if any. although they have "donated" to the "community", they cannot modify the code so to replace the compiler for Solaris-like systems to GCC and so it is impossible to compile it under any Solaris-like system. Obviously, it does not compile under Solaris either. Big donation! I didn't know that, are you saying that Apache OpenOffice can be compiled only using SolarisStudio compiler, running on Linux, or something? ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
On 01/28/17 10:45 PM, Adam Števko wrote: Hello, guys, can we stop debating something that is not related to OI on this mailing lust? Of course it is related to OI and there is no other list to mention it on actually, that is closer to the topic. I don't think asking people not to discuss and talk is positive community influence, asking people to shut up is an negative influence. I know that many people still care about Solaris and what happens to it, but please get over it. Oi iteslf uses IPS for packages, uses Xorg and many other things are shared with Oracle Solaris open source released components. It is that Solaris supported nature and shared code up to illumos birth, makes it very interesting topic for OI/illumos, sharing in most cases users pool, where some people might run illumos/Openindiana on some machines or Solaris on others. It's been 7 years since illumos and Solaris separated and illumos chose different path. illumos/OpenIndiana has it's own future and instead of debating Oracle business decisions, go search illumos bug tracker and report / fix bugs, write blog posts about illumos/OpenIndiana etc. On the other hand, if there is no reaction to media bashing on Solaris, next time, random writer start to bash OI or illumos there would be no one to stop the flood of Linux drones. illumos and Openindiana does not compete with Solaris, they each have they use cases and support models. Linux is illumos competition and Linux drones are bashing everything non-Linux on internet news comments, so there is even more then need to react to media bias. I would actually rather select Oracle Solaris then some corporate Linux distro if I am forced on having dead-serious mission-critical support contracts. Recognizing benefits of Linux, but even after more then 8 years since Opensolaris 2009.06, usability for serious use of any Linux distribution is far below Openindiana/illumos. Feel free not to respond if find topic uninteresting. For younger audience directing not to talk on public mailing lists is out of scope of administration and forums are not the mailing lists. Messages/posts can not go back and be deleted and one can not "lock thread" or topic, so that is what one needs to get over, getting away people's freedom of expression and freedom of talk. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
Hello, guys, can we stop debating something that is not related to OI on this mailing lust? I know that many people still care about Solaris and what happens to it, but please get over it. It's been 7 years since illumos and Solaris separated and illumos chose different path. illumos/OpenIndiana has it's own future and instead of debating Oracle business decisions, go search illumos bug tracker and report / fix bugs, write blog posts about illumos/OpenIndiana etc. If you wish to debate Oracle Solaris, use different mailing list for that. This mailing list is used for debating OI-related topics. Thanks for uderstanding! Cheers, Adam > On 28 Jan 2017, at 20:06, John D Groenveld wrote: > > In message , > Bob > Friesenhahn writes: >> Oracle determines who is allowed to run Solaris based on who they >> allow to purchase a support contract. Once your hardware is no longer >> eligible for a support contract then it may no longer be legal to >> install Solaris on it, even if Solaris is being re-installed due to a >> disk failure. > > Agreed, but so what? > > If you're an Oracle customer in 2017 you know Larry Ellison prefers > you over a barrel and you're comfortable with being in that low-volume, > high-margin position. > OI and illumos has long ago absorbed those Solaris users who aren't > comfortable with that relationship. > I've seen very few OI or illumos RFEs in this thread to enable the > few if any remaining members of the Solaris ecosystem to escape > Ellison's grasp if only... > > John > groenv...@acm.org > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] pulseaudio error
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 10:11 PM, russell wrote: > Hi, > > After changing the permissions on the ~/.config/pulse directory, removing > the directory contents and restarting pulse everything was working. I could > logout and log back in and no errors. > When I restarted my computer the directory permissions changed to > rwx-- , there is a process which is resetting the permissions > incorrectly. Thank you for the detailed report, could you open a ticket at bugs.openindiana.org? I have the pulseaudio update to 9.0 on my todo list but had no time to debug a failure on my machine... Aurélien > > > Regards > > Russell > > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > -- --- Praise the Caffeine embeddings ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] pulseaudio error
Hi, After changing the permissions on the ~/.config/pulse directory, removing the directory contents and restarting pulse everything was working. I could logout and log back in and no errors. When I restarted my computer the directory permissions changed to rwx-- , there is a process which is resetting the permissions incorrectly. Regards Russell ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Questions on Hipster 10/16
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Joachim Weiß via openindiana-discuss < openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: > Dear all, > > I’ve been out of OI for awhile, now I installed Hipster 10/16 need a > little help regarding: > > Virtualbox (from their website) won’t install due to some Python > dependency, fix? > I would install the package bellow instead: http://opensxce.org/virtualbox5_qt4/testbins/ > The GUI for selecting printers has disappeared, is it discontinued? > i think it was mentioned in a bug on bugs.openindiana.org > > Also GUI for package management ist still missing, I think from the > beginning of Hipster … > Yes I attempted to work on it but Python gives me rashes. > > … still fidlding with HDMI sound output … should be fairly easy. > For my Nvidia card their was a bug in the Nvidia driver itself, not related to OI. Kind regards Aurelien > > Still: CONGRATULATIONS! Boot up time has been reduced significantly and > everything else works without hassle. > > Thank you! > > > > Am 12.12.2016 um 10:09 schrieb Apostolos Syropoulos via > openindiana-discuss : > > > >> FFmpeg can use several libraries. But as libraries (which ffmpeg can > >> use) use different licensing, if you compile ffmpeg with all options > >> enabled, you get binary, which you can't redistribute according to > > > >> GPLv2 license. > > > > > > Correct remark! That is why I explained how one can compile > > ffmpeg with all these libraries enabled. If you do not use > > these libraries, then ffmpeg is practically useless! > > > > A.S. > > > > > > -- > > Apostolos Syropoulos > > Xanthi, Greece > > > > ___ > > openindiana-discuss mailing list > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > -- --- Praise the Caffeine embeddings ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
In message , Bob Friesenhahn writes: >Oracle determines who is allowed to run Solaris based on who they >allow to purchase a support contract. Once your hardware is no longer >eligible for a support contract then it may no longer be legal to >install Solaris on it, even if Solaris is being re-installed due to a >disk failure. Agreed, but so what? If you're an Oracle customer in 2017 you know Larry Ellison prefers you over a barrel and you're comfortable with being in that low-volume, high-margin position. OI and illumos has long ago absorbed those Solaris users who aren't comfortable with that relationship. I've seen very few OI or illumos RFEs in this thread to enable the few if any remaining members of the Solaris ecosystem to escape Ellison's grasp if only... John groenv...@acm.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] pulseaudio error
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:22 PM, russell wrote: > Hi, > > The below was created due the permissions set on the pulse directory in > .config, the permssions were rwx-- changing the permissions to add > group access resolved the issue. > > Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] > module-device-restore.c: Failed to open volume database > '/home/russell/.config/pulse/ce41a7037b30eebdefda138d00f5-device-volumes': > I/O error > Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] > module.c: Failed to load module "module-device-restore" (argument: ""): > initialization failed. > Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] > main.c: Module load failed. > Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] > main.c: Failed to initialize daemon. > Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1233]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] > main.c: Daemon startup failed. > Jan 28 13:57:19 telsa pulseaudio[1270]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] > pid.c: Daemon already running. > Thank you for sharing the solution! > > > Regards > > Russell > > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > -- --- Praise the Caffeine embeddings ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
Oracle determines who is allowed to run Solaris based on who they allow to > purchase a support contract. Once your hardware is no longer eligible for > a support contract then it may no longer be legal to install Solaris on it, > even if Solaris is being re-installed due to a disk failure. > Damn ... for a second, when I saw one unread message in my inbox I thought that finally someone had replied to one of my emails about Xorg, Qt5, or other OI-related stuff etc.. ;) > Bob > -- > Bob Friesenhahn > bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ > > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > -- --- Praise the Caffeine embeddings ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Graphic stack wiki page
> https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Graphic+stack > The wiki page is updated to reflected some changes in https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2451 All Xorg drivers except xorg-video-ati are bumped to the latest version. Let us hope we can fix the Intel issue with Xorg 1.18.4. Kind regards Aurelien -- --- Praise the Caffeine embeddings ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017, Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss wrote: I exactly do not expect Solaris going anyway but being solid solution for the long-term support. This will happen only if people are paying Oracle... Oracle determines who is allowed to run Solaris based on who they allow to purchase a support contract. Once your hardware is no longer eligible for a support contract then it may no longer be legal to install Solaris on it, even if Solaris is being re-installed due to a disk failure. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Graphic stack wiki page
Hi, I added a wiki page with some status info: https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Graphic+stack Aurélien -- --- Praise the Caffeine embeddings ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] pulseaudio error
Hi, The below was created due the permissions set on the pulse directory in .config, the permssions were rwx-- changing the permissions to add group access resolved the issue. Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] module-device-restore.c: Failed to open volume database '/home/russell/.config/pulse/ce41a7037b30eebdefda138d00f5-device-volumes': I/O error Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] module.c: Failed to load module "module-device-restore" (argument: ""): initialization failed. Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] main.c: Module load failed. Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1236]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] main.c: Failed to initialize daemon. Jan 28 13:57:17 tesla pulseaudio[1233]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] main.c: Daemon startup failed. Jan 28 13:57:19 telsa pulseaudio[1270]: [ID 295310 user.error] [(null)] pid.c: Daemon already running. Regards Russell ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near
> > Topic name (end) is more of an mantra then something. Who's end, what to > end? Basically nothing but reference to "media" bias that was > published > on news sites in previous days. (and we all know how sites and > publicists are click-loving) > Well I know that where is smoke, there is fire. > "end of the world" references are overwhelmingly culturally present to > put people into fear state. OK but you have to admit that many things ended in the history of computing. > At least, support up till 2034 does not correlate right with any of > that. (Maybe: "2031 is near" :) ) Provided this and that will happen but they will not happen... > Some interpretations tend to create another realities based on assumptions. > Mailing lists tend to be moved, stopped from functioning for various > reasons. What is that Solaris x86 list? In a sense it was the official forum of solaris x86 users. In good old times, I could received even 50 messages in a day. Now the list practically dead... > I exactly do not expect Solaris going anyway but being solid solution > for the long-term support. This will happen only if people are paying Oracle... > Anyway, OpenOffice was head over to the Apache > foundation and that is a good thing, yet 'rolling released' vs ' > named versions' differences are also there. They could not do otherwise and that is why they gave it away. In fact, who would buy OpenOffice when LibreOffice could do the same things and it was free! There was no profit for them. And although they have "donated" to the "community", they cannot modify the code so to replace the compiler for Solaris-like systems to GCC and so it is impossible to compile it under any Solaris-like system. Obviously, it does not compile under Solaris either. Big donation! But I am stopping here. I will not reply to any message on this topic any more. A.S. -- Apostolos Syropoulos Xanthi, Greece ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
