Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
Am 21.04.17 um 23:16 schrieb Andreas Wacknitz: Am 21.04.17 um 22:10 schrieb jason matthews: On 4/21/17 11:36 AM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: I can't tell. It's a specialized distribution and I am currently evaluating it because SmartOS does not work well on my HP ProLiant DL360 G7. But I am just recently started playing with it so I cannot say much about internal details yet. I would prefer to use SmartOS but I have been told on IRC that it is for data center and thus power consumption is irrelevant. You are using a computer that sounds like a jet engine and you are worried about power consumption? :) Since Gen6 the HP ProLiant servers are quiet. I only hear a soft wisper from it as long as there is no high load on it. Even under high load it's far form sounding like a jet engine. Have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/wiki/dbbtu That gives some valuable information ;-) It is sort of a funny statement all around. Data centers spend lots of money on power and air conditioning where one begets the other. so I am not sure why one wouldnt care about power. I am curious, what power related thing is making your G7 "not work well"? Running the machine (2*L5630, 32GB RAM, 1 300GB SAS drive) idles around 100W under EXSi. Fans are at 23%. Proxmox has a similar power consumption with fans at 20%. SmartOS (as of end of March) idles at around 130W with fans at 34%. The sound at this speed is still bearable but not whisper quiet like on Proxmox. My OI build machine is a DL360G7 with one E5645, 3*8GB RAM, 2 SSD's and 2 600GB SAS drives. Under OI it idles around 80W and fans at 19%. I expected SmartOS having similar values. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
Am 21.04.17 um 22:10 schrieb jason matthews: On 4/21/17 11:36 AM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: I can't tell. It's a specialized distribution and I am currently evaluating it because SmartOS does not work well on my HP ProLiant DL360 G7. But I am just recently started playing with it so I cannot say much about internal details yet. I would prefer to use SmartOS but I have been told on IRC that it is for data center and thus power consumption is irrelevant. You are using a computer that sounds like a jet engine and you are worried about power consumption? :) Since Gen6 the HP ProLiant servers are quiet. I only hear a soft wisper from it as long as there is no high load on it. Even under high load it's far form sounding like a jet engine. Have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/wiki/dbbtu That gives some valuable information ;-) It is sort of a funny statement all around. Data centers spend lots of money on power and air conditioning where one begets the other. so I am not sure why one wouldnt care about power. I am curious, what power related thing is making your G7 "not work well"? Running the machine (2*L5630, 32GB RAM, 1 300GB SAS drive) idles around 100W under EXSi. Fans are at 23%. Proxmox has a similar power consumption with fans at 20%. SmartOS (as of end of March) idles at around 130W with fans at 34%. The sound at this speed is still bearable but not whisper quiet like on Proxmox. Regards ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On 4/21/17 11:36 AM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: I can't tell. It's a specialized distribution and I am currently evaluating it because SmartOS does not work well on my HP ProLiant DL360 G7. But I am just recently started playing with it so I cannot say much about internal details yet. I would prefer to use SmartOS but I have been told on IRC that it is for data center and thus power consumption is irrelevant. You are using a computer that sounds like a jet engine and you are worried about power consumption? :) It is sort of a funny statement all around. Data centers spend lots of money on power and air conditioning where one begets the other. so I am not sure why one wouldnt care about power. I am curious, what power related thing is making your G7 "not work well"? . ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] UEFI on OpenIndiana installation media
What is the status of UEFI in illumos in general and on OpenIndiana installation media in particular? What works, what does not? I try to boot recent OI from http://buildzone.oi-build.r61.net/test-isos-2017-03-13/ both ISO and USB media on Linux QEMU 2.9.0 with OVMF UEFI like this: qemu-system-x86_64 -drive media=cdrom,file=$iso -boot d -bios ovmf-x86_64-ms.bin -enable-kvm -net none But I just end up in UEFI shell. Recent Fedora ISO boots fine. I read UEFI section at https://wiki.illumos.org/display/illumos/Architecture but that may be, well, outdated. Thanks, Michal ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Doug Hughes wrote: > Not to Hijack, but: No worries. There is no substitute for the voice of experience. > I struggled with KVM on XFS for months before giving up. XFS is somewhat > fundamentally incompatible with qcow2. In our case we are using raw (required for some OpenNebula features, though I should check to see if we are actually using any of those features anymore...). On and off for the past few weeks I have been exploring the potential of migrating off OpenNebula and onto Triton--I suspect it would enable us to increase the utilization of our (admittedly) small private cloud. --cro ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On 4/21/2017 2:06 PM, C. R. Oldham wrote: > For Ubuntu, it is an effort to get ZFS on the root partition. See > these wiki entries: > > https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/wiki/Ubuntu > > I have several machines installed with these instructions on 16.04, > 16.10, and 17.04. They do work, but it's a pain to get it installed. > > Note that ZoL does have a couple of limitations that can make it > challenging to use it as the backing store for KVM. We have an > OpenNebula private cloud and some of qemu's caching options will cause > the VMs not to start, claiming the FS underneath doesn't expose the > right primitives. I left the OS on ZFS on those machines and > converted the partitions where the VMs keep their disks to XFS. Not to Hijack, but: I struggled with KVM on XFS for months before giving up. XFS is somewhat fundamentally incompatible with qcow2. If you are using raw, I'm sure it's great. Sine we use snapshots for backups and replication, the qcow2 functionality is a must-have. Even on a 96GB machine on a large (~40TB) qcow2 image, the fragmentation in XFS got to be enough that it was struggling to get 4MB allocations for XFS, and XFS would just fill the logs. Even echo 3> /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches and tuning linux to have at least 8MB available and use hugetlb and tuning scanning were not enough. XFS would get irrevlocably stuck and require a hard reset of the entire machine to free. You *can* tune xfs allocation sizes, but only on an empty file. You can't do it after the fact, which makes discovering that very annoying. You can also completely preallocate a qcow2, but I'm not sure it's helpful in the long run. Running KVM on ZoL on the other hand, has been wonderful so far with qcow2. (CentOS7.2) Anyway, just saying, XFS is great until it isn't, and it's failure cases will bite you months down the road and you may not have options. I'm looking forward, soon, to having another zfs machine to replicate too, then I'll use KVM+QCOW2 to take the snapshot, use zfs to replicate, then blockcommit and done. Right now it's rsync and it takes way too long. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
Am 21.04.17 um 20:25 schrieb C. R. Oldham: On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: Am 21.04.17 um 20:06 schrieb C. R. Oldham: Note that ZoL does have a couple of limitations that can make it challenging to use it as the backing store for KVM. That's interesting, Proxmox, a Debian based distribution, can use ZFS and run KVM on it. It might have been more accurate for me to say that it seems to be challenging to use OpenNebula with ZFS then. I haven't used Proxmox, maybe it is smart enough to restrict the caching options to what works best with ZFS? I can't tell. It's a specialized distribution and I am currently evaluating it because SmartOS does not work well on my HP ProLiant DL360 G7. But I am just recently started playing with it so I cannot say much about internal details yet. I would prefer to use SmartOS but I have been told on IRC that it is for data center and thus power consumption is irrelevant. Regards, Andreas --cro ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017, C. R. Oldham wrote: I haven't used Proxmox, maybe it is smart enough to restrict the caching options to what works best with ZFS? ZFS itself is a cache. It should not be necessary to add more caching on top of it as pertains to local storage. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: > > Am 21.04.17 um 20:06 schrieb C. R. Oldham: >> Note that ZoL does have a couple of limitations that can make it >> challenging to use it as the backing store for KVM. > That's interesting, Proxmox, a Debian based distribution, can use ZFS and > run KVM on it. It might have been more accurate for me to say that it seems to be challenging to use OpenNebula with ZFS then. I haven't used Proxmox, maybe it is smart enough to restrict the caching options to what works best with ZFS? --cro ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
Am 21.04.17 um 20:06 schrieb C. R. Oldham: For Ubuntu, it is an effort to get ZFS on the root partition. See these wiki entries: https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/wiki/Ubuntu I have several machines installed with these instructions on 16.04, 16.10, and 17.04. They do work, but it's a pain to get it installed. Note that ZoL does have a couple of limitations that can make it challenging to use it as the backing store for KVM. We have an OpenNebula private cloud and some of qemu's caching options will cause the VMs not to start, claiming the FS underneath doesn't expose the right primitives. I left the OS on ZFS on those machines and converted the partitions where the VMs keep their disks to XFS. That's interesting, Proxmox, a Debian based distribution, can use ZFS and run KVM on it. Regards, Andreas --cro On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Andrew Gabriel wrote: That would be any Illumos-based distro, FreeBSD (and FreeNAS), Ubuntu, and maybe Gentoo. I looked on the Oracle Linux web pages and blog, and there's no mention of ZFS anywhere. The Oracle Linux folks were very anti ZFS because they developed BTRFS and saw ZFS as a competitor, although I think the BTRFS development team is now mainly at Facebook. On 21/04/2017 19:12, David Johnson wrote: I might be using the wrong terminology, but by "native" I meant without doing any extra work. Some of the operating systems in your link are rumored to not work out of the box. An Oracle tech support rep. is the one who told me about the native support for ZFS in Oracle Linux. On 04/21/17 11:01, Andrew Gabriel wrote: On 21/04/2017 18:24, David Johnson wrote: Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. I'm not aware that Oracle Linux has native ZFS support at all. However, there are more than you mentioned - see http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Distributions ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss . ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
For Ubuntu, it is an effort to get ZFS on the root partition. See these wiki entries: https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/wiki/Ubuntu I have several machines installed with these instructions on 16.04, 16.10, and 17.04. They do work, but it's a pain to get it installed. Note that ZoL does have a couple of limitations that can make it challenging to use it as the backing store for KVM. We have an OpenNebula private cloud and some of qemu's caching options will cause the VMs not to start, claiming the FS underneath doesn't expose the right primitives. I left the OS on ZFS on those machines and converted the partitions where the VMs keep their disks to XFS. --cro On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Andrew Gabriel wrote: > That would be any Illumos-based distro, FreeBSD (and FreeNAS), Ubuntu, and > maybe Gentoo. > > I looked on the Oracle Linux web pages and blog, and there's no mention of > ZFS anywhere. > The Oracle Linux folks were very anti ZFS because they developed BTRFS and > saw ZFS as a competitor, although I think the BTRFS development team is now > mainly at Facebook. > > On 21/04/2017 19:12, David Johnson wrote: >> >> I might be using the wrong terminology, but by "native" I meant without >> doing any extra >> work. Some of the operating systems in your link are rumored to not work >> out >> of the box. An Oracle tech support rep. is the one who told me about the >> native support for ZFS in Oracle Linux. >> >> On 04/21/17 11:01, Andrew Gabriel wrote: >>> >>> On 21/04/2017 18:24, David Johnson wrote: Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. >>> >>> >>> I'm not aware that Oracle Linux has native ZFS support at all. >>> However, there are more than you mentioned - see >>> http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Distributions >>> >> >> >> ___ >> openindiana-discuss mailing list >> openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org >> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss >> . >> > > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
That would be any Illumos-based distro, FreeBSD (and FreeNAS), Ubuntu, and maybe Gentoo. I looked on the Oracle Linux web pages and blog, and there's no mention of ZFS anywhere. The Oracle Linux folks were very anti ZFS because they developed BTRFS and saw ZFS as a competitor, although I think the BTRFS development team is now mainly at Facebook. On 21/04/2017 19:12, David Johnson wrote: I might be using the wrong terminology, but by "native" I meant without doing any extra work. Some of the operating systems in your link are rumored to not work out of the box. An Oracle tech support rep. is the one who told me about the native support for ZFS in Oracle Linux. On 04/21/17 11:01, Andrew Gabriel wrote: On 21/04/2017 18:24, David Johnson wrote: Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. I'm not aware that Oracle Linux has native ZFS support at all. However, there are more than you mentioned - see http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Distributions ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss . ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017, Michael Schuster wrote: You can also have a look at FreeBSD Yes, FreeBSD has had ZFS for a long time and they are good about security updates. OpenIndiana has had ZFS from the beginning and the ZFS was written for its (Solaris) code base rather than needing to be ported into it. The native implementation gives it an advantage over any "port" (e.g. better memory use). Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
I might be using the wrong terminology, but by "native" I meant without doing any extra work. Some of the operating systems in your link are rumored to not work out of the box. An Oracle tech support rep. is the one who told me about the native support for ZFS in Oracle Linux. On 04/21/17 11:01, Andrew Gabriel wrote: On 21/04/2017 18:24, David Johnson wrote: Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. I'm not aware that Oracle Linux has native ZFS support at all. However, there are more than you mentioned - see http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Distributions ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
You can also have a look at FreeBSD Cheers Michael On 21 Apr 2017 6:25 pm, "David Johnson" wrote: Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. Dave ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
On 21/04/2017 18:24, David Johnson wrote: Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. I'm not aware that Oracle Linux has native ZFS support at all. However, there are more than you mentioned - see http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Distributions -- Andrew Gabriel ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS on Openindiana vs ZFS on oracle linux
Does anyone have any editorial comments on how well ZFS is handled on Openindiana vs. Oracle Linux? It looks like these may be my only two choices if I want to have an OS that has native ZFS support, and allow me to get updated security patches. Dave ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss