[OpenIndiana-discuss] A dumb idea

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

What about just import the FreeBSD Ports system and like DragonflyBSD uses 
transformations scripts (https://github.com/DragonFlyBSD/DeltaPorts) to 
transform it into illumos-ports something like this 
(https://github.com/DragonFlyBSD/DPorts) and enjoying the large amount of 
software we will never able to port by our own with little effort?

Yes, FreeBSD and DragonflyBSD share more in common than FreeBSD and Illumos.

But people have done this for MacPorts anyway.

We can even patch the illumos-ports to output IPS packages instead of FreeBSD's 
pkg.

This doesn't mean to dump our current oi-userland. illumos-ports and 
oi-userland could co-exist.

I know it sounds dumb but let's just give it a thought experiment and imagine.

BTW, the case between IPS pkg and FreeBSD pkg is where the copycat get it 
better than the original.

Yes, FreeBSD pkg is a clone of IPS pkg, for FreeBSD.

But they didn't use Python and since their OS still has to installed on VPS 
with little RAM so they can't make the ZFS assumption like us, so FreeBSD pkg 
doesn't depend on ZFS, it works just fine with UFS.

IMHO, FreeBSD is simpler and has better performance than IPS pkg.

Yet it supports the almost the same features. It could operate on FreeBSD 
'jail', too. Just like IPS pkg could operate on 'zones'.

IPS pkg is overly complicated and a resource hog with poor performance.

Unfortunately, we pretty much have to stick with it, for the sake of 
compatibility.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] A rant

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Anyone here seems to be hated Linux too much. Does it because their bad past 
experience with it or simply because Linux is success and we are loser and the 
natural law of the loser hate the winner?

Someone used to said Linux is a cesspool because it's only a kernel and hacked 
together to create a working system.

Today I cloned illumos-gate and I see the completely different.

I think Linux is more organized than Illumos.

Saying Linux is a hacked together work is hypocrite and indeed slapping back 
into our own faces.

We are no different. Illumos is a hacked together work and was an product of an 
desperate attempt to continue OpenSolaris.

We are a mess, too.

Indeed I found we are more like Linux than the BSDs.

The large part of our userland is GNU anyway.

Back to the rant: where actually things were put?

I have did many 'find . -name' commands to try to discover where things were 
put.

I want to find the source code of pcfs, aka msdosfs.

The source files with pcfs as part of their names scattered across the source 
tree, the same for ufs.

Which one is the true one to look for?

 I really hope we could be as 'a mess' as Linux, where things were put 
organized into linux/fs: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/fs

Oh no, headers scattered everywhere. Which headers really needed and what they 
are actually for?

It might took ages to find the answer.

Yet the hypocrites still accused Linux of putting everything into /usr/include. 
Yes, you, too, the BSDs.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] What's HASWELL support like on OI?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

This is my CPU:

CPU:   Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i5-4460 bits: 64 type: MCP L2 
cache: 6144 KiB

It has reasonable good performance with OI.

Graphic performance is also good. Possible to watch 4K on Palemoon and 1080p on 
Firefox.

The key point to good performance on OI is not CPU but RAM.

8G of RAM and a tweaked ZFS ARC Cache Size Max on /etc/system worked for me.

Everything is very fast and responsive. Until you touch operations with a 
spawning a lot of process like pkgsrc it will show you the truly identity of it 
is, Slowlaris.

I suggest add more RAM. Maybe 16G at least. But I think 32G is good.

Good luck at your effort.




 On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 08:35:38 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > I'm trying to find some combination of hardware that will 
 > produce reasonable performance at the console. My last efforts 
 > were in vain. I just ordered a motherboard that has intel 
 > Haswell graphics support. The board also provides a pcie 
 > x16 slot. Where I could put most any video card. My first 
 > attempt with Intel video was a disappointment. So I tried 
 > Nvidia. Which was also a disappointment. So I'm just 
 > looking for something that doesn't take ~25 seconds to 
 > return a full directory listing. But nothing created 
 > in the within the last 5-7yrs that I have seems to fly. 
 > Maybe I should be using a STBD, or RIVA TNT card? ;-) 
 >  
 > Thanks for your input! :-) 
 >  
 > --Chris 
 >  
 > -- 
 > ~10yrs a FreeBSD maintainer of ~160 ports 
 > ~40yrs of UNIX 
 >  
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 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to expand the live usb to use all of the space on the device? v2

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Sorry. I mean 'don't have', not 'don't know'.

I really don't know how to turn off auto suggestion/completion on my mail 
client. It's real annoying.




 On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:08:16 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > I will adjust my attitude and expectation.
 > 
 > BTW, I don't agree with you about Linux is junk.
 > 
 > I don't know the authority of a SE like you, but I tell from my own 
 > experience.
 > 
 > Linux rocks and superior to any alternatives.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 23:16:47 +0700 Jedi Tek'Unum  
 > wrote 
 > 
 >  > Perhaps I can say some things here that others can’t. I’m a totally 
 > neutral party in all of this. I don’t use Illumos or any derivatives. I 
 > simply observe this forum as a passive interest from my past. 
 >  > 
 >  > I’m a retired Software Engineer/Architect that used to work in the 
 > industry in major computer vendors and ISVs on systems-level software. 
 > Amongst a multitude of operating systems and many many *nixes, I started 
 > with the Solaris precursor SunOS in the mid-80’s. Throughout my career I 
 > always felt that Solaris was FAR superior to any other alternative and so 
 > did most of my employers. That includes the broader free/open software 
 > community of much of the last 40 years. 10 years ago you couldn’t have found 
 > a bigger fan of Solaris and the Solaris community. But even then I had 
 > departed the world of Solaris on the desktop/notebook in favor of MacOS. 
 >  > 
 >  > From my perspective, the tragic end of Sun has all but destroyed Solaris. 
 > The efforts of a few to continue on with Illumos and derivatives has been 
 > commendable. For some the results have been adequate for their own use and 
 > warrants their further involvement. Regrettably, I am not one of them. 
 >  > 
 >  > I would suggest that people that are not coming from a previous Solaris 
 > background are far beyond reasonable expectations if they think Illumos or 
 > derivative is something that will broadly compete with other modern 
 > alternatives. 
 >  > 
 >  > I personally think Linux is junk and I avoid it unless there is 
 > absolutely no other choice - and that is always in deeply embedded 
 > small-scale situations. I use FreeBSD a bit for some things (cloud server 
 > and pfSense firewall for examples). I have a single home server still 
 > running Solaris that I only use for our family storage (which will likely 
 > transition to TrueNAS/FreeBSD at some point). Mac Pro and MacBook Pro round 
 > out the rest of my daily environments. 
 >  > 
 >  > You’ve got to understand that Linux is successful because of inertia - 
 > the mass of so many people and companies behind it. The reason most things 
 > work ok is because of the many people who have a stake in it. Even the most 
 > obscure embedded board gets Linux support first. That doesn’t make the 
 > foundational technology any better - and in fact it is crap in many cases - 
 > but it fulfills the “good enough” mantra of modern times. Despite its 
 > apparent good looks to many, there is a pretty obvious cesspool in the 
 > dozens and dozens of distributions each with their own strengths and 
 > weaknesses and incompatibilities. FreeBSD is more organized and elegant in 
 > many ways and there is a certain quality over quantity focus. It isn’t as 
 > broad because it doesn’t have the same scale of community. 
 >  > 
 >  > Illumos and derivatives just don’t have the scale of community to support 
 > the breadth of features (and support) that many people expect - which 
 > includes you (and me). It’s not the fault of any in the community and there 
 > are no bad intentions on the part of any of them. You can’t expect a few 
 > people to give you the functionality and support of 10’s of thousands. I 
 > wish the ecosystem was usable by myself but I recognize the realty. 
 >  > 
 >  > You’re never going to be happy with this situation (and it’s never going 
 > to change) so I suggest it would be best to abandon it and move on. 
 >  > 
 > 
 > ___
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 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to expand the live usb to use all of the space on the device? v2

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I will adjust my attitude and expectation.

BTW, I don't agree with you about Linux is junk.

I don't know the authority of a SE like you, but I tell from my own experience.

Linux rocks and superior to any alternatives.




 On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 23:16:47 +0700 Jedi Tek'Unum  
wrote 

 > Perhaps I can say some things here that others can’t. I’m a totally neutral 
 > party in all of this. I don’t use Illumos or any derivatives. I simply 
 > observe this forum as a passive interest from my past. 
 >  
 > I’m a retired Software Engineer/Architect that used to work in the industry 
 > in major computer vendors and ISVs on systems-level software. Amongst a 
 > multitude of operating systems and many many *nixes, I started with the 
 > Solaris precursor SunOS in the mid-80’s. Throughout my career I always felt 
 > that Solaris was FAR superior to any other alternative and so did most of my 
 > employers. That includes the broader free/open software community of much of 
 > the last 40 years. 10 years ago you couldn’t have found a bigger fan of 
 > Solaris and the Solaris community. But even then I had departed the world of 
 > Solaris on the desktop/notebook in favor of MacOS. 
 >  
 > From my perspective, the tragic end of Sun has all but destroyed Solaris. 
 > The efforts of a few to continue on with Illumos and derivatives has been 
 > commendable. For some the results have been adequate for their own use and 
 > warrants their further involvement. Regrettably, I am not one of them. 
 >  
 > I would suggest that people that are not coming from a previous Solaris 
 > background are far beyond reasonable expectations if they think Illumos or 
 > derivative is something that will broadly compete with other modern 
 > alternatives. 
 >  
 > I personally think Linux is junk and I avoid it unless there is absolutely 
 > no other choice - and that is always in deeply embedded small-scale 
 > situations. I use FreeBSD a bit for some things (cloud server and pfSense 
 > firewall for examples). I have a single home server still running Solaris 
 > that I only use for our family storage (which will likely transition to 
 > TrueNAS/FreeBSD at some point). Mac Pro and MacBook Pro round out the rest 
 > of my daily environments. 
 >  
 > You’ve got to understand that Linux is successful because of inertia - the 
 > mass of so many people and companies behind it. The reason most things work 
 > ok is because of the many people who have a stake in it. Even the most 
 > obscure embedded board gets Linux support first. That doesn’t make the 
 > foundational technology any better - and in fact it is crap in many cases - 
 > but it fulfills the “good enough” mantra of modern times. Despite its 
 > apparent good looks to many, there is a pretty obvious cesspool in the 
 > dozens and dozens of distributions each with their own strengths and 
 > weaknesses and incompatibilities. FreeBSD is more organized and elegant in 
 > many ways and there is a certain quality over quantity focus. It isn’t as 
 > broad because it doesn’t have the same scale of community. 
 >  
 > Illumos and derivatives just don’t have the scale of community to support 
 > the breadth of features (and support) that many people expect - which 
 > includes you (and me). It’s not the fault of any in the community and there 
 > are no bad intentions on the part of any of them. You can’t expect a few 
 > people to give you the functionality and support of 10’s of thousands. I 
 > wish the ecosystem was usable by myself but I recognize the realty. 
 >  
 > You’re never going to be happy with this situation (and it’s never going to 
 > change) so I suggest it would be best to abandon it and move on. 
 >  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GParted crashed

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Why don't just remove this GParted sh8t from OI altogether?

We don't have the ability to port the modern GParted anyway.




 On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 02:48:00 +0700 Judah Richardson 
 wrote 

 > The last time I tried using it (sometime in 2020) it crashed on me too. I 
 > just use my Debian machine's GParted instead.
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GParted crashed

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I'm out of patient with this format stuff.

I ended up use GParted on Linux to fix the partition table.

But guess what? The format command on OI still doesn't see the extended space.

There is a command called 'expand' to expand the label to whole partition.

I tried this expand command. And guest what? It said there is nothing to expand!

What a piece of sh8t! How misleading! What this 'expand' command actually do?

The 'modify' command even give insane result where a partition table is full of 
zeros, zero cylinders, zero, everything zero!

Of course I'm not that stupid to accept these results. I always typed no.

BTW, what an insane default setting to defaulting all of the answer to be [yes]!

Too disappointed I'm not bother to try other 'commands' of the horrible 
'format'.

But I did tried to run format the last time to see if I have any lucks.

And guest what? After I selected my usb stick it just printed [disk formatted] 
and the whole system hung.

I have to cold reset again to boot to Linux to post this email.

What a terrible experience! I give up. Good luck with your OS. I'm out.




 On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 14:49:04 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > GParted crashed immediately when being started on a live usb system and core 
 > dumped. 
 >  
 > I could sure the core file is of gparted since sudo file core reported it's 
 > of 'gpartedbin' 
 >  
 > Trying running from terminal with sudo gparted Segmentation fault 
 > immediately. 
 >  
 > Don't ask me to upload the core file to you. The feeling of mine when this 
 > happened is... if I could smash the monitor, I would. 
 >  
 > Jim, I said with you I don't want to be spoonfed. But please spoonfed me 
 > this time, just this time, please. I don't want to deal with the horrible 
 > format command. 
 >  
 > format -e indeed showed the usb stick. But I have no idea how to accomplish 
 > my goal. 
 >  
 > The live usb image is 1.9G in size and my stick is 16G in size. 
 >  
 > I want to fix the partition table, so it fully recognize my usb as 16G and I 
 > want to resize the root partition (slice 2) to extend it to fill the 
 > remaining space. 
 >  
 > Without fixing the partition table, format doesn't see the device's size as 
 > 16G but just 1.9G. 
 >  
 > Of course, I could fix the partition table from GParted on Linux, but I 
 > don't know if it would caused any corruption because of the incompatibility 
 > between the two systems. 
 >  
 > I know how to use format the most basic way, mainly to prepare the disk to 
 > install Tribblix to UFS and setup the swap partition. 
 >  
 > I have no deeper experience with it so far. 
 >  
 > Researching requires me to read the Oracle manual, which IMHO is always long 
 > and boring to read compared to what of Linux and FreeBSD. 
 >  
 > This time I tried to type format after selected my usb stick and guess what? 
 > My live system hung immediately and I have to cold reset it to boot back to 
 > Linux. Please help. 
 >  
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[OpenIndiana-discuss] GParted crashed

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

GParted crashed immediately when being started on a live usb system and core 
dumped.

I could sure the core file is of gparted since sudo file core reported it's of 
'gpartedbin'

Trying running from terminal with sudo gparted Segmentation fault immediately.

Don't ask me to upload the core file to you. The feeling of mine when this 
happened is... if I could smash the monitor, I would.

Jim, I said with you I don't want to be spoonfed. But please spoonfed me this 
time, just this time, please. I don't want to deal with the horrible format 
command.

format -e indeed showed the usb stick. But I have no idea how to accomplish my 
goal.

The live usb image is 1.9G in size and my stick is 16G in size.

I want to fix the partition table, so it fully recognize my usb as 16G and I 
want to resize the root partition (slice 2) to extend it to fill the remaining 
space.

Without fixing the partition table, format doesn't see the device's size as 16G 
but just 1.9G.

Of course, I could fix the partition table from GParted on Linux, but I don't 
know if it would caused any corruption because of the incompatibility between 
the two systems.

I know how to use format the most basic way, mainly to prepare the disk to 
install Tribblix to UFS and setup the swap partition.

I have no deeper experience with it so far.

Researching requires me to read the Oracle manual, which IMHO is always long 
and boring to read compared to what of Linux and FreeBSD.

This time I tried to type format after selected my usb stick and guess what? My 
live system hung immediately and I have to cold reset it to boot back to Linux. 
Please help.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to add a new package to distibution construction?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Regarding why unlike other people I always write in the beginning of mail 
rather than the after of it, it's because I feel it's easier to read for the 
people reading my mails.

Guest what? After something like  after multiple replies, how can you 
tell what is the person's texts and what's the texts he quoted from other 
people's mail?

It's the inherently limit of mailing list. This is why I never partition 
people's mail into sections and answer each sections.

Just write everything in the beginning, the later part which is the quote could 
just be dismissed. It's personal preference anyway.

Thanks for your pointer. I will try it.

BTW, after my wall of texts and knew I'm maybe on the list of bad guys on the 
FreeBSD forums, Chris didn't write anything.

Maybe it's good. Just dismiss this sh8t. He could choose to ignore it and 
continue to be kind with me, or changing his attitude and ignore me.

It's all depends on him and doesn't really matter.

The tools you said have available for decades without being updated. This is 
the reason why they are too limited and both functionality and 
user-friendliness compared to their counterparts on FreeBSD or Linux.

It's nothing to be proud for at all but something to be considered as a shame: 
we are stagnant, they are still move ahead, we are losers...

I will try GParted. But I'm not really expect much from it. Your GParted is way 
too outdated, so when compared with it modern counterpart on Linux, it looks 
like a joke.

I'm not want to spoonfed but just want an easier life. Why you consider lack of 
features/functionalities and user-friendliness a sign of professional, I wonder?

I admit I rarely have to read man pages on Linux and only read man page a bit 
more on FreeBSD.

It's because the tools are very intuitive. A bit of trial and error is enough 
to make the thing works as expected.

Or if it's a bit more complicated, then the -h/--help switch of the command is 
enough.

Does the same apply for your system?

No. It will need lengthy books just to cover what one able to do after reading 
just a simple manual. Is it anything to proud for?

I only want to make my job done. I'm not researcher. I admit I could resort to 
online tutorial sites is the most. I will drop the software altogether and 
seeking for alternatives if it requires me to read lengthy books.

Remember what make up most of the users is the average Joe.

If you want to be Elite-ism, you need strong financial backing. Or your project 
just simply become more and more less relevant and finally dead.

It's obviously you don't have any strong financial backing at all.

Even the former LoudMouthOS, FreeBSD, even though appeared to stay Elite-ism, 
they indeed make their system more user-friendly to catch the immigrants from 
Linux.

And they have good financial backing, too. They have Netflix, NetApp, 
Juniper,... all kind of the big names. Of course, it's nothing compared to 
Linux, though.

BTW, I don't want to insult and it's all personal opinions after all.

Don't take it serious!



 On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:49:15 +0700 Jim Klimov  wrote 

 > Regarding the device partitioning, try `format -e` for the removable device. 
 >  
 > * "...and they gave me a black screen with a blinking rectangle. Whatever I 
 > typed was in vain, until "man this sucks", omg, page not found, we're on to 
 > something!" 
 >  
 > The format, rmformat, fdisk, prtvtoc, ... come from Solaris and haven't 
 > visibly changed in decade(s?) which is actually good when you're making 
 > systems that last longer than people running them. New UI's - new tools, 
 > sadly. 
 >  
 > The live media may also include `parted` or `gparted`. 
 >  
 > Note that liveusb is essentially a more convenient livedvd, so very not sure 
 > this environment's expectations of the disk layout and OS automounts and so 
 > on would make R/W partitions on same device easy to make and use. 
 >  
 > Finally remember that people chat and help here on their free time. There 
 > are lots of books on Solaris, and Oracle docs, which vastly apply to 
 > illumos. Your behavior often seems like you want to be spoonfed while the 
 > ocean of RTFM is at arm's length, and along with having been perceived as 
 > annoying, few are eager to waste time unproductively (especially those with 
 > a history of professional services - literally making their living for years 
 > off those who don't bother to do their homework). I don't want to say you 
 > don't make an effort - you do - but see how many more suggestions Chris 
 > gets, for example, with just a different attitude albeit with similar sort 
 > of questions about curious issues people currently online haven't stepped 
 > into either. 
 >  
 > Hope this helps, 
 > Jim 
 >  
 > -- 
 > Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Android 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to expand the live usb to use all of the space on the device? v2

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Thank you. But I would rather know how to do this myself.

BTW, I know FreeBSD, too.

Things may not be as simple as you see.

BSD scheme maybe incompatible with Solaris scheme.

We would rather wait the people who really know the system reply to us.

If they even care, at all.

Forget me and continue with your adventure.

Please don't say with me you spend these previous days all troubled with OI 
installation and setup but no actual progress in building packages!

Because very deep in me my intuition said with me it's  to be so!

If you don't mind, please tell a bit about your progress.

I'm still waiting for your XFCE4.

Good luck with your adventure.

p/s: which FreeBSD forums account name of your? Maybe we know each other.

I'm a notorious SPAMMER and TROLL on this forums (at least the MODs considered 
me to be so) and get BANNED I think forever from it. They banned my country's 
whole IP range just because of me!

Just recently, I found they lifted the BAN. I could access this forums now and 
just tried to register again.

To be honest, I can't stand the members' FreeBSD first attitude. I tried my 
best, sacrificed my personal character, to EXPOSE that their OS is not the BEST 
and there are many things LINUX does BETTER.

So I get HATRED. The same as I'm being HATRED on this mailing list.

Today I'm more mentally stable than me of the past. I'm no longer passionate in 
anything.

Maybe if I could get my account accepted I will just do my own business I don't 
care what the heck about their OS.

All of the minor OS community so far have the same illness: ARROGANT and 
DELUSION.

I will just get my job done and gone. I learned a painful truth: Apart from 
Linux, FreeBSD is the best free alternative OS. FreeBSD is superior to any 
Illumos!

After my encounter with the Solaris/Illumos community, I would rather give my 
title I formerly give for FreeBSD, LoudMouthOS, to them.

They talk too much, most of the information is obsolete with modern Linux, they 
always think they are somewhat SUPERIOR even the fact is they are FADING to 
DEATH.

Let's they DEAD with their own EGO.

I think I still keep the title BDSM/OS for FreeBSD, though. The FreeBSD forums 
is a big animal farm with it censorship. Every time I posted on it, I feel like 
I'm practicing BDSM!

 



 On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:59:09 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 >  
 > I'll cobble up an image for you. I just need your desired specs. :-) 
>

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to expand the live usb to use all of the space on the device? v2

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Well. My guess seemed to be true again.

Here is the output of Linux's fdisk:

fdisk -l /dev/sdc

GPT PMBR size mismatch (4008112 != 30031871) will be corrected by write.
The backup GPT table is not on the end of the device. This problem will be 
corrected by write.
Disk /dev/sdc: 14.3 GiB, 15376318464 bytes, 30031872 sectors
Disk model: Cruzer Force
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: E34D276B-2790-236C-E97C-E1EFEEAEAD80

Device   Start End Sectors  Size Type
/dev/sdc1  256   69887   69632   34M EFI System
/dev/sdc269888   7193520481M Solaris boot
/dev/sdc371936 3991694 3919759  1.9G Solaris root
/dev/sdc9  3991696 4008079   163848M Solaris reserved 1

You just dd-ed your iso image into /dev/sdc3 (don't know which Solaris name it 
is, to be fair!)

No way to expand or extend or modify this scheme! Since there is no writable 
file system to be expand or extend or modify at all!

Perhaps Linux's Gparted could do something with the partition table and 
possibly creating new partition.

But who care? The point is having an read/write area for OI on the usb stick. 
And it seemed unfeasible now.




 On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 08:18:16 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > v1 is failed because no one could give a solution. 
 >  
 > https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2021-January/023341.html
 >  
 >  
 > So I start v2. 
 >  
 > As I said here: 
 > https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2021-January/023555.html
 >  
 >  
 > I only left with fdisk. And my guess was right, it's not work. 
 >  
 > The ONLY thing it showed me is a EFI partition with Length is 250, no other 
 > partitions to expand, no actual partition that contain the distro's data. 
 >  
 > The Solaris fdisk is extremely limited compared to Linux fdisk or even 
 > FreeBSD, to be fair! 
 >  
 > I don't know your partitioning scheme on your live usb. 
 >  
 > Please explain and give me DETAIL answer, not kind of DIY answers I 
 > previously received on v1. 
 >  
 > If my guess is not wrong, then: 
 >  
 > You just have an EFI partition in order to boot. 
 >  
 > Then you just dd-ed your iso image into the unallocated space and let your 
 > boot loader mount it during boot. 
 >  
 > This is the reason why fdisk only shows just one EFI partition and nothing 
 > else. Does it true? 
 >  
 > I saw no UFS partition, no writable file systems at all to be fair. On 
 > Linux, Gparted only display a bunch of black and very small partitions: 
 > https://imgur.com/FmcrVMF.png 
 >  
 > If there was an UFS file system, Linux could mount it automatically, auto 
 > mount is turned on on all Linux nowadays, albeit just read-only for UFS. 
 > But, I saw nothing. 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to expand the live usb to use all of the space on the device? v2

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

v1 is failed because no one could give a solution.

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2021-January/023341.html

So I start v2.

As I said here: 
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2021-January/023555.html

I only left with fdisk. And my guess was right, it's not work.

The ONLY thing it showed me is a EFI partition with Length is 250, no other 
partitions to expand, no actual partition that contain the distro's data.

The Solaris fdisk is extremely limited compared to Linux fdisk or even FreeBSD, 
to be fair!

I don't know your partitioning scheme on your live usb.

Please explain and give me DETAIL answer, not kind of DIY answers I previously 
received on v1.

If my guess is not wrong, then:

You just have an EFI partition in order to boot.

Then you just dd-ed your iso image into the unallocated space and let your boot 
loader mount it during boot.

This is the reason why fdisk only shows just one EFI partition and nothing 
else. Does it true?

I saw no UFS partition, no writable file systems at all to be fair. On Linux, 
Gparted only display a bunch of black and very small partitions: 
https://imgur.com/FmcrVMF.png

If there was an UFS file system, Linux could mount it automatically, auto mount 
is turned on on all Linux nowadays, albeit just read-only for UFS. But, I saw 
nothing.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to add a new package to distibution construction?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Thanks. BTW, do you know how to do this?

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2021-January/023341.html

The DIY guys seemed never did the same thing but just like to teach other what 
to do.

On a booted live usb system of OI.

The format command doesn't show the usb stick as disk.

rmformat only does with formatting, but not partitioning: 
https://illumos.org/man/1/rmformat

It seemed only fdisk left. I will try if fdisk works or not.

I hate this kind of DIY answers very much.

Better give me the details, which commands to use, which man pages to look at...

I always give them very detailed information but they can only give these sh8t.




 On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:38:37 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > 
 > 
 > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:56 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 >  wrote:
 > So no one know how to do it?
 > 
 > You should add the package FMRI in the distribution constructor manifest 
 > like I should in the thread about nano.
 > Add it to one of the manifests included in slim_cd.
 > However sunpro is not available anymore from our repo for legal reasons, it 
 > was obsoleted some weeks ago.
 > 
 > Also I just remembered that you ask why we do not have cc,c++,cxx etc.. in 
 > /usr/bin... I forgot to reply...
 > A lot of software assumes that if /usr/bin/cc is found then it is Sunstudio 
 > and sets it as default without checking that it is actually another compiler 
 > e.g. GCC.
 > We had to refrain from providing the symlinks in /usr/bin to work around 
 > such ill-defined behaviour...
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > ---- On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:11:17 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via 
 > openindiana-discuss  wrote 
 >  
 >   > e.g: I wanted to add the sunpro package into slim_cd_x86.xml 
 >   >  
 >   > How could I do it? 
 >   >  
 >   > I found this xml doesn't contain any list of packages to be used at all. 
 >   >  
 >   > Please help. Thanks. 
 >   >  
 >   > ___ 
 >   > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 >   > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 >   > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 >   > 
 >  
 >  ___
 >  openindiana-discuss mailing list
 >  openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
 >  https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > ---
 > Praise the Caffeine embeddings
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to get a usable console on OI?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

If you have a powerful machine, about twice of your currently is enough, then...

just run OI as a guest under any virtualization solution (VirtualBox, VMWare or 
QEMU/KVM...), give the VM as much as you can, e.g: at least 4 cores 8 GB of RAM,

then you definitely get better performance.

There is software that... not suitable to use on real life hardware at all.

Unless you do cherry picking on a list of supported hardware.

e.g: HaikuOS.

It has never run with acceptable performance or bug-free on real life hardware.

But it's smooth on VirtualBox.

ReactOS, too.

And so does OpenIndiana, sadly.

OI runs happily with good performance on VirtualBox if it has the graphics 
driver and guest addition installed.

My real hardware is fortunately supported by OI, so I have good performance, 
too.

I have discovered this painful truth a long time ago.

So my intended usage of OI mainly for VPS server (it's simply running under a 
VM after all).

But OI is not optimized for running like that at all. Linux and FreeBSD does, 
though.

It's bad. OI needs twice as resources as Linux. You need at least 4 GB of RAM 
and limit ZFS ARC Cache Size in /etc/system to let it run at acceptable 
performance.

Yeah. 4 GB of RAM is no longer a small VPS. There is website runs on Linux with 
just 2 cores 1 GB of RAM!

This is the reason why I'm too expected on Tribblix.

It's the only Illumos that still could be installed on UFS, thus, the resources 
needed is just a bit higher than Linux or FreeBSD, thus acceptable for a VPS.

Sorry for the long off topic post. I'm not intended to rant but just to share 
my experience.

If the community doesn't want it, I will stop posting like this.

Hope it helps.




 On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 08:27:38 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > I have a recent install where I simply login at the 
 > console -- no X related stuff. Just the screen. 
 > Things just seem broken, For example, a simple ls /dev 
 > takes a full 3 to 4 seconds to fill the screen, and each 
 > page full is an additional 3 to 4 seconds. This is on a 3 
 > core AMD CPU @3Ghz && 8Gb RAM on a x16 pcie Nvidia card. 
 > This seems horribly unreasonable. Simple shell scripts 
 > that output to the screen take as long or longer to write 
 > to the screen. It's like the old days logging into a BBS, 
 > or an anonymous ftp site on an 8086 or 80286. 
 >  
 > Thanks for any clues! :-) 
 >  
 > -- 
 > ~10yrs a FreeBSD maintainer of ~160 ports 
 > ~40yrs of UNIX 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to add a new package to distibution construction?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

So no one know how to do it?




 On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:11:17 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > e.g: I wanted to add the sunpro package into slim_cd_x86.xml 
 >  
 > How could I do it? 
 >  
 > I found this xml doesn't contain any list of packages to be used at all. 
 >  
 > Please help. Thanks. 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A mailing list for Tribblix

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

It's kind of a private group on facebook. In order to join you have to click 
the request to join button and waiting for the staffs to accept your request or 
not.

Until then, the only thing you could do is just watch.

They never accepted my requests (allow me to join their group).

Indeed, I have never see their answers!

Instead of mute me like that, I would be more happy if they just said: 'Loser, 
you are not qualified to join our group. Fuck off!'.

I have tried any kind of possible ways.

I even have my own login on topicbox, waiting to be accepted into their group.

BTW, if you are already using topicbox I think you will not ask me such 
question.

Just try to join yourself.

https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss

If you could be accepted into their group, then...

I'm just unqualified.

So this is a group of elites, not for people like me.

My request for a separate mailing list for Tribblix become essential.

Something for the average Joe is of course needed!




 On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:14:17 +0700 Volker A. Brandt  wrote 


 > > Yeah. I think so, too. But the people at illumos topicbox simple don't. 
 > > I have requested to join their topicbox for more than 4 times. 
 > > They have never answer my requests. 
 >  
 > What kind of answer did you expect?  Are you sure that you have selected 
 > "email delivery" on topicbox?  The default is "web delivery". 
 >  
 >  
 > Regards -- Volker 
 > -- 
 >  
 > Volker A. BrandtConsulting and Support for Solaris-based Systems 
 > Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ 
 > Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANYEmail: v...@bb-c.de 
 > Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46 
 > Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt 
 >  
 > "When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead" 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to add a new package to distibution construction?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

e.g: I wanted to add the sunpro package into slim_cd_x86.xml

How could I do it?

I found this xml doesn't contain any list of packages to be used at all.

Please help. Thanks.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to install OI to USB stick?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Hi, I'm not asked about creating a live USB stick.

I'm asked about how to treat the USB stick as a HDD and install OI into it.

Does it even possible and if it is how to do it?

Thanks.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to create UDF file system on OI?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

UDF seems to be the ideal file system for portability.

However, the man page for udfs doesn't mention how to create it at all.

Please help.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A mailing list for Tribblix

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Yeah. I think so, too. But the people at illumos topicbox simple don't.
I have requested to join their topicbox for more than 4 times.
They have never answer my requests.
What I can do is watching other people's discussion.
This topicbox seems to be a closed group of selective people that don't open 
for the outsiders.
Yeah. Sound like the Illuminati.
But it's nothing strange for a project whose name is 'Illumos'!

Regardless of your ideal thinking, each distro has their own mailing list.
Including your own, this list.

I just ask Peter to do the same for his distro.
It's nothing wrong for Tribblix to have it own mailing list.

Hope it helps.




 On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:38:22 +0700 Apostolos Syropoulos 
 wrote 

 > I believe we are a small community and we cannotr afford to 
 > become even smaller. After all, all distros use the same kernel 
 > and problems with drivers, file systems, etc., are the same. 
 > A.S. 
 >  
 > -- 
 > Apostolos Syropoulos 
 > Xanthi, Greece 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A mailing list for Tribblix

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Currently, to be able to have support, users have to contact you via email 
directly.

But most of them don't know about this. Some of them even posted on the OI 
discuss mail list, in hope of you could see it.

Google Group don't have to be active. I have seen very low activity groups. But 
the people behind that group don't even consider to delete it.

They key point is users need some place to discuss and receive supports.

A google group make it easier for both you and the users.

Your mailbox will me more ordered, of course.

Yes, there is a generic place for Illumos: illumos topicbox.

But as I told you many times, this place is not easy to use.

I have sent request to join a couple of times, but no one care.

This place is just for watching other people's discussion.

They don't care about new users.

So each Illumos distros have their own mail list because of that.

I have said everything I could.

Hope you could consider it.

gh




 On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 21:44:17 +0700 Peter Tribble  
wrote 

 > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 5:43 AM Hung Nguyen Gia  
 > wrote:
 > Sorry for posting here. I know it's the wrong place but it's the place that 
 > I most likely could meet P. Tribble.
 >  
 >  Mr. Tribble, as you already has a Google account, and even has two blogs 
 > running, may I ask you to create a google group for Tribblix?
 >  
 >  It's doesn't need much effort to create and maintain it. But Tribblix users 
 > will have a place for themselves, don't have to post here anymore.
 > 
 > While I'm in some ways flattered that it might be thought worthwhile for
 > Tribblix to have its own mailing list, it's not at all clear to me that 
 > adding
 > more isolated islands of communication to the community is a good thing.
 > 
 > -- 
 > -Peter Tribble
 > http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Σχετ: Linux file systems support on OI?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Which packages?

http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/search.shtml?token=fuse=Search

http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster-encumbered/en/search.shtml?action=Search=fuse=1

I saw only fuse and libfuse but no actual packages of file systems implemented 
on FUSE.




 On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 14:42:02 +0700 Apostolos Syropoulos 
 wrote 

 > I think you can use FUSE.
 > 
 > Στάλθηκε από το Ταχυδρομείο Yahoo σε Android
 > 
 > Στις Σάβ, 23 Ιαν, 2021 στις 9:04, ο χρήστηςHung Nguyen Gia via 
 > openindiana-discuss
 >  έγραψε:
 > Does OI support Linux file systems, e.g: Ext2/3/4, XFS, JFS...?
 > 
 > And support to what extent? read/write or read-only?
 > 
 > Does it a kernel driver or FUSE driver?
 > 
 > How could I mount a Linux file system under OI?
 > 
 > Please let me know. Thanks.
 > 
 > ___
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 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How many file systems supported by OI?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

If you could, please give me an accurate list.

I'm trying to find the one that suitable for my purpose.

Thanks.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Linux file systems support on OI?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Does OI support Linux file systems, e.g: Ext2/3/4, XFS, JFS...?

And support to what extent? read/write or read-only?

Does it a kernel driver or FUSE driver?

How could I mount a Linux file system under OI?

Please let me know. Thanks.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Illumos UFS vs FreeBSD UFS?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Are they compatible? Could I use UFS for data exchange purpose?

UFS is available on all BSDs, including one doesn't support ZFS. So it's a 
better portable FS than ZFS.

But I'm a bit pessimistic, because each BSD's UFS is different to the other. 
e.g: FreeBSD's UFS2 doesn't mountable under DragonflyBSD, which only supports 
UFS1.

So I don't expect much.

BTW, our UFS is UFS2 or UFS1 or something else?

Please let me know. Thanks.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] A mailing list for Tribblix

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Sorry for posting here. I know it's the wrong place but it's the place that I 
most likely could meet P. Tribble.

Mr. Tribble, as you already has a Google account, and even has two blogs 
running, may I ask you to create a google group for Tribblix?

It's doesn't need much effort to create and maintain it. But Tribblix users 
will have a place for themselves, don't have to post here anymore.

A google group is like this: https://groups.google.com/g/minix3

Anyone with a Google account could create Google group.

Hope you will consider it.

Sincere,

gh

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS Error

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

It's from experience. If a pool faulty on FreeBSD, I will try to import it on 
Linux or OI.
Of course, I will try to import it from FreeBSD first.
But most of the time it doesn't work.
The key is to import on other OSes that support ZFS.
The chance that it will be able to import the pool is higher.




 On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 09:03:45 +0700 Gary Mills  
wrote 

 > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 08:29:21AM +0700, Hung Nguyen Gia via 
 > openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > > Hi. Try importing your pool on FreeBSD or Linux. 
 >  
 > The usual way is to boot the install medium on your OI system, and then 
 > import the pool there. 
 >  
 >  
 > -- 
 > -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada- 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to speedup screen writes?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

You said you used the text install so I assume it's non-graphical installation?

Then better use ssh and work on your comfortable workstation with a handy 
terminal emulator like XFCE4 Terminal.

If it's graphical, I'm out of idea. I don't use NVIDIA.




 On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:34:13 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > I'm on Nvidia graphics. 
 > But it looks like my console is running an 800x600 VESA 
 > framebuffer. As a result. The screen draws are REAL slow. 
 > How to best improve that on OI? I change to modsetting 
 > on FreeBSD. But I don't think that's available on OI? 
 >  
 > Thanks! 
 >  
 > --Chris 
 >  
 > -- 
 > ~10yrs a FreeBSD maintainer of ~160 ports 
 > ~40yrs of UNIX 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS Error

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

If it said the pool was of another system or not exported or something like 
that, try adding readonly to option:

zpool import -o readonly=on altroot=/mnt rpool

In any circumstances don't do any zpool upgrade.




 On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:29:21 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > Hi. Try importing your pool on FreeBSD or Linux. 
 >  
 > FreeBSD you could get GhostBSD. Any Linux will sufficient. Even though I 
 > suggest MX Linux. 
 >  
 > FreeBSD is easier. Linux you will have to setup ZOL. But it's plenty of 
 > guides on the web. So don't worry. 
 >  
 > Import the pool with: 
 >  
 > zpool import -o altroot=/mnt rpool 
 >  
 > Or you could try importing the pool on OmniOS. 
 >  
 > Hope it helps. 
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 02:24:30 +0700 Gaetano valboa  
 > wrote  
 >  
 >  > Hi all, 
 >  > 
 >  > i have a usb ssd and i installed hipster 2020.4.But after three starts 
 >  > it gives me this error: ZFS: i / o error - all block copies unavailable 
 >  > ZFS: can't read MOS of pool rpool ZFS: can't find pool by guid Can't 
 >  > find / boot / zfsloader. Can you help me solve the startup problem. 
 >  > 
 >  > ___ 
 >  > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 >  > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 >  > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 >  > 
 >  
 > ___ 
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 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ZFS Error

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Hi. Try importing your pool on FreeBSD or Linux.

FreeBSD you could get GhostBSD. Any Linux will sufficient. Even though I 
suggest MX Linux.

FreeBSD is easier. Linux you will have to setup ZOL. But it's plenty of guides 
on the web. So don't worry.

Import the pool with:

zpool import -o altroot=/mnt rpool

Or you could try importing the pool on OmniOS.

Hope it helps.




 On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 02:24:30 +0700 Gaetano valboa  
wrote 

 > Hi all, 
 >  
 > i have a usb ssd and i installed hipster 2020.4.But after three starts 
 > it gives me this error: ZFS: i / o error - all block copies unavailable 
 > ZFS: can't read MOS of pool rpool ZFS: can't find pool by guid Can't 
 > find / boot / zfsloader. Can you help me solve the startup problem. 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI and DE's

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

They have known this sound issue for a long time:

https://www.illumos.org/issues/12839

https://www.illumos.org/issues/13005

I found OI works better with speakers.

I had give up the hope with earphones.

If earphones is a hard requirement, better use another OS.

I you don't like Linux. Then I suggest GhostBSD:

http://ghostbsd.org/download




 On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 14:00:12 +0700 Tony Brian Albers  wrote 


 > Hi guys, 
 >  
 > I've been following the latest discussions about desktop environments 
 > with great interest. I'm trying very hard to use OI as a daily driver 
 > for my work. I've come a long way: 
 >  
 > 1. I've got email and calendar working towards the Exchange Server we use. 
 >  
 > 2. I've got MS Teams working in FireFox. 
 >  
 > 3. I've got VPN working (vpnc). 
 >  
 > 4. I've got KeePassX. 
 >  
 > 5. I've managed to get clusterssh working. 
 >  
 > 6. I've got sync to/from my NextCloud server working. 
 >  
 >  
 >  
 > 7. I've got my USB webcam passed through to a linux VM in VirtualBox so 
 > that I can use Zoom for meetings. -well that's what I thought 
 >  
 > BUT there is an issue that I think is being overlooked: 
 >  
 > https://www.illumos.org/issues/13098 
 >  
 > Sound in OI/illumos is low in general and microphone input is almost 
 > inaudible. (see the mail thread "Microphone and pulseaudio") 
 >  
 > I'd also like to have XFCE4 available, It's my preferred DE, well if 
 > WindowMaker is not available ;) 
 >  
 > Now, if we want to have more DE's available, and get more users to use 
 > OI, I think that making sound work is probably a good idea. 
 >  
 > just my .02 DKK 
 >  
 > /tony 
 >  
 > P.S. I'm willing to help out doing testing and documentation. 
 > Unfortunately I do not have any programming skills to speak of. 
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  
 > On 01/12/21 05:40 PM, Gary Mills wrote: 
 > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 09:34:47AM -0600, Gary Mills wrote: 
 > > 
 > >> The volume on illumos-based systems is always quite low. 
 > > 
 > > Here's the bug report: 
 > > 
 > > https://www.illumos.org/issues/13098 
 > > 
 > > 
 >  
 >  
 > -- 
 > Tony Albers - Systems Architect - IT Development Royal Danish Library, 
 > Victor Albecks Vej 1, 8000 Aarhus C, Denmark 
 > Tel: +45 2566 2383 - CVR/SE: 2898 8842 - EAN: 5798000792142 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When will AMD XIII CPUs be supported

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Find another machine.

I'm very appreciate if you continue to help investigate the problems.

But it will took you unproductive for at least a month.

A month or maybe more.

See my previous issue:

https://www.illumos.org/issues/12964

https://www.illumos.org/issues/13053

https://www.illumos.org/issues/12395

It took them very long to diagnose the problems and fix it.

But it's when I could give them the core dump.

I don't know how long it could take for you.

So better find another machine.




 On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 16:03:15 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > On 2021-01-21 13:58, Gary Mills wrote: 
 > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 12:56:51PM -0800, Chris wrote: 
 > >> Or, why does the 20201031 usb image text install crash 
 > >> on my AMD XIII @3Ghz && 8GB RAM? 
 > > 
 > > What is AMD XIII?  I have three AMD Ryzen systems.  None of them behave 
 > > that way.  This is the one I use most often: 
 > > 
 > > $ psrinfo -vp 
 > > The physical processor has 8 cores and 16 virtual processors (0-15) 
 > >   ... 
 > > x86 (AuthenticAMD 800F82 family 23 model 8 step 2 clock 3200 MHz) 
 > >   AMD Ryzen 7 2700 Eight-Core Processor 
 > > 
 > >> The install is slow as a dog in graphics or text modes. 
 > > 
 > > That may not be a problem.  After all, you only install once. 
 > > 
 > >> It either bootloops just after 
 > >> zfs0 /pseudo/zfs@0 
 > >> 
 > >> or it dumps core at the first language choice screen. 
 > >> Any thoughts/suggestions? 
 > > 
 > > That certainly could be a problem.  Did you capture the core file 
 > > or record the traceback? 
 > Couldn't do it. It dumprd abruptly, and immediately rebooted. 
 >  
 > --Chris 
 >  
 > -- 
 > ~10yrs a FreeBSD maintainer of ~160 ports 
 > ~40yrs of UNIX 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When will AMD XIII CPUs be supported

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I think test with OmniOS is right. But I have to remind you again: you started 
first doesn't mean you will be the winner!

Solaris/Illumos has been stagnant for a long time when others still going ahead.

Hope it would help changing your mindset to be more realistic.




 On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 16:29:57 +0700 Volker A. Brandt  wrote 


 > Hi Chris! 
 >  
 >  
 > Hang in there!  I'm sure we'll get it to work eventually. 
 >  
 > > Driver is NOT the problem. 
 > > I think the only way I'm going to be able to install OI on this, is 
 > > by plugging my sata drive into a USB adapter, and install it there. 
 > > Then after installation. Plug the drive back into the sata port on 
 > > the MB. I thought OI had better sata support. It clearly understands 
 > > the controller. 
 > > 
 > > Well. They say a Picture paints a thousand words: 
 > > https://bsdos.info/OI/Screenshot-2021-01-22-00-12-55.png 
 >  
 > I don't think it's a matter of lacking "better SATA support".  Several 
 > Sun servers had the nv_sata chip on board (we have an X2200M2 here), and 
 > Solaris and thus illumos-based systems have supported that for a long 
 > time.  It must be some interaction between the installer and your 
 > system. 
 >  
 > Do test an OmniOS USB installer, just to see if it can find the disks. 
 >  
 >  
 > Regards -- Volker 
 > -- 
 >  
 > Volker A. BrandtConsulting and Support for Solaris-based Systems 
 > Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ 
 > Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANYEmail: v...@bb-c.de 
 > Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46 
 > Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt 
 >  
 > "When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead" 
 >  
 > ___ 
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 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When will AMD XIII CPUs be supported

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Well well. Except sometimes it's stuck for eternity.

https://www.illumos.org/issues/12963

The only solution is to cold reset. It corrupted the disk.
The only way to reuse this disk is from another system using dd if=/dev/zero to 
zero fill it.
Even if it's SSD, it took almost an hour to complete.

Now see the problem?

This is another reason no one uses your system.
Deployment speed is a very important factor the production.

Hope it helps.

BTW, you see? No one cares about the issue I reported. Not even a single 
comment to indicate that they do care!

People here always said that I have disrespected them.

BS! Pure BS! See who being disrespected?

They treat me like nothing!

Don't ever talk about disrespect or something like that with me.

Otherwise we can't have a respectful conversation.




 On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 13:07:28 +0700 Stephan Althaus 
 wrote 

 >  
 > Personally i don't care much about install time. Really! 
 >  
 > Greetings, 
 >  
 > Stephan 
 >  
 >  
 > ___ 
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 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When will AMD XIII CPUs be supported

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I know the pain, bro.
It's deadly slow on my Intel with SSD, too.
But there are workarounds to make it fast.
Despite these workarounds sound stupid.

If you use the graphical live system, after boot when it done configured your 
network, fire up System Monitor.
Yes, fire up System Monitor, sounds unrelated, but really helps.
After that, minimize System Monitor's window, use the TEXT INSTALLER, yes, the 
TEXT INSTALLER, don't touch the graphical installer.
Regardless of your system is UEFI or not, just choose the use the whole disk 
EFI.
Then the installation will be a lot faster.

I don't why the people with knowledge about DTrace, (K)MDB, bla bla... doesn't 
investigate this problem.
It has been like that for years.
But don't complain with them. They will have you to learn DTrace, (K)MDB, bla 
bla... and ask you to do the investigation yourself!
I know this, so I would rather shut up and don't care, as long as there is 
workarounds.

Hope it helps.




 On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 03:56:51 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > Or, why does the 20201031 usb image text install crash 
 > on my AMD XIII @3Ghz && 8GB RAM? 
 > The install is slow as a dog in graphics or text modes. 
 > It either bootloops just after 
 > zfs0 /pseudo/zfs@0 
 >  
 > or it dumps core at the first language choice screen. 
 > Any thoughts/suggestions? 
 >  
 > Thanks! 
 >  
 > --Chris 
 >  
 > -- 
 > ~10yrs a FreeBSD maintainer of ~160 ports 
 > ~40yrs of UNIX 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Fcitx

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Oh, cmake. I hate cmake.

If Fcitx is too hard, please at least add ibus-unikey:

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2021-January/023459.html

Thanks.




 On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 00:15:32 +0700 Apostolos Syropoulos 
 wrote 

 > Indeed but it seems that is not thayt easy to compile it as it depends 
 > on many things: 
 >  
 > https://deepmind.t-salon.cc/article/2948 
 >  
 > -- 
 > Apostolos Syropoulos 
 > Xanthi, Greece 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Fcitx

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Fcitx has been used to replace Ibus for a long time on Linux.

The BSDs have it, too:

https://www.freshports.org/chinese/fcitx/

https://openports.se/inputmethods/fcitx

https://pkgsrc.se/inputmethod/fcitx

This mean it's not Linux only software.

There currently no packages for it:

http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/search.shtml?action=Search=fcitx=1

Please have a look at this.

Of course, I will be more happier if we have fcitx-unikey:

https://github.com/fcitx/fcitx-unikey

But, at least please make fcitx-m17n available:

https://www.freshports.org/textproc/fcitx-m17n

Thanks.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Unikey

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

It seemed ibus-unikey was not yet added to the repo.

http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/search.shtml?action=Search=unikey

https://www.illumos.org/issues/12812

https://www.illumos.org/issues/13006

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Please help me converting these ndd to ipadm

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_wscale_always 1
sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_tstamp_if_wscale 1
sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_max_buf 33554432
sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_cwnd_max 16777216
sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_xmit_hiwat 4194304
sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_recv_hiwat 16777216
sudo ndd -set /dev/tcp tcp_keepalive_interval 30

https://www.illumos.org/issues/13070

Thanks.




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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

700 Araragi Hokuto 
 > >  wrote  
 > > 
 > >   > From my experience, the shell's performance hardly makes large 
 > >   > difference, because the shell itself is *not* that different (that is, 
 > >   > if there's a difference in the first place: most *nix I've ever seen 
 > >   > ships with the same set of shells). 
 > >   > 
 > >   > Given that you are stating the output printing is slow, I would like 
 > > to 
 > >   > confirm your display setting first: 
 > >   > 
 > >   > 1) Are you running OI inside a vm, or are you running it on real 
 > >   > hardwares? If later, can you provide the specs of hardware in use? 
 > >   > 
 > >   > 2) What interface are you using, video console, terminal emulator 
 > > under 
 > >   > X, or something else (through ssh, etc)? 
 > >   > 
 > >   >  a) If using video console, are you using VGA text console, or 
 > > BIOS 
 > >   > graphical console, or UEFI console? All three of them have significant 
 > >   > performance difference on my hardware. 
 > >   > 
 > >   >  b) If using X, what video driver are you using? Look into your 
 > > Xorg 
 > >   > log if you are not sure. 
 > >   > 
 > >   >  c) If its something else, priovide more infomation so we can look 
 > >   > into it. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > I would at least confirm the problem really lies inside shell before 
 > >   > asking maintainers to update it, and I would *NEVER* send out a mail 
 > >   > with something like "OI is too slow for me so GO GET LINUX'S SHELL AT 
 > >   > ONCE". Don't blame Google translator for it; we can tell the 
 > > difference 
 > >   > bewteen poor translation and true disrespect, and disrespectful mail 
 > >   > calls for disrespectful replies. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > On 1/20/21 12:46 AM, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > >   > > What is profiled? 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > I don't think it's gmake at all. 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > How could you explain the slowness when it 'Checking for...' 
 > > something? 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > This stage is plain configure script, gmake is not yet invoked. 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > >  On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 23:38:21 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 > >  wrote  
 > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 5:20 PM Hung Nguyen Gia via 
 > > openindiana-discuss < 
 > >   > >   > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 > >   > >   > 
 > >   > >   > > Everything on OI is too slow, so I decided to go another 
 > > route. 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > I tried with bash as default shell on FreeBSD and the result 
 > > is the same. 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > Also tried on Debian 10 with export SH=/bin/bash, it's pretty 
 > > much as fast 
 > >   > >   > > as on FreeBSD if not to say faster. 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > Bash maybe not the problem. 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > 
 > >   > >   > Have you profiled gnu make? 
 > >   > >   > 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > >  On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:38:28 +0700 edward 
 > >  
 > >   > >   > > wrote  
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > >   > >   > >  > On 1/18/21 8:27 PM, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 > > wrote: 
 > >   > >   > >  > > The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is 
 > > line by line, 
 > >   > >   > > very slow. Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing 
 > > fast that I 
 > >   > >   > > can't even see what's going on at all. 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > >   > >   > >  > suggest to try the same type of shell freebsd uses? 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > >   > >   > >  > ___ 
 > >   > >   > >  > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >   > >   > >  > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > >   > >   > >  > 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > > ___ 
 > >   > >   > > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >   > >   > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >   > >   > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > >   > >   > > 
 > >   > >   > 
 > >   > >   > 
 > >   > >   > -- 
 > >   > >   > --- 
 > >   > >   > Praise the Caffeine embeddings 
 > >   > >   > ___ 
 > >   > >   > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >   > >   > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >   > >   > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > >   > >   > 
 > >   > > 
 > >   > > ___ 
 > >   > > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >   > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >   > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > >   > 
 > >   > ___ 
 > >   > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >   > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >   > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > >   > 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Regardless of it's good behavior or not, this does give Linux a huge advantage 
over us.
The different is significant.
If we want to continue to keep our Solaris heritage and continue to ridicule 
Linux, then OK, it's fine.
This is a note for anyone going to use Illumos as a build server: it will 
almost double the cost compared to a Linux/FreeBSD build server.
Using Illumos is not for performance, but for stability. At least it's what I 
hear, I have never able to confirm if it's really more stable than 
Linux/FreeBSD or not.
It's all from people's mouths.
Illumos full fill a niche market and it's better stay in that market.
Meanwhile, Linux/FreeBSD is for general purpose.


I'm going to build an Illumos based sever (VPS), could be OI or OmniOS, to 
cross compile software for MS Windows using the mingw-w64 cross compiler.
I used to very glad because I think finally I found an application for this OS.
Now I have to reconsider.
mingw-w64 currently failed to compile on OI. I have forwarded the message about 
that from pkgsrc-users to this list. But no one cares.
I still hope having mingw-w64 compile and working. But this hope is fading.
Given the cost: an Illumos based server cost almost double: more memory needed, 
more disk space needed (ZFS can't be shrink, but EXT4 is fine with this), 
almost 4x slower the compilation times.
I think I would rather build a Debian based server instead. The host provider 
already have a working Debian 10 image. If using FreeBSD, I have to upload 
custom ISO.


This also give an end for my dream of my own Illumos distro.
I used to think it would be based on Tribblix but uses my own pkgsrc binary 
repo.
Overtime I would build illumos-gate myself and have it export to pkgsrc 
compatible packages, too, alongside IPS packages.
Without depending on IPS, my distro, like Tribblix, could still able to install 
on UFS!
You know? Tribblix's ZAP package manager doesn't support package dependencies!
You have to grab a whole overlay which many useless things you don't need just 
to have a package you need with it proper dependencies.
I and Peter disagreed deeply about this. Each of us have our own opinions.

This is all end now.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 18:41:48 +0700 david allan finch 
 wrote 

 > On 01/19/21 06:50 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:
 > > I have always noticed that Solaris (and OpenIndiana) is slower to fork 
 > > processes than Linux or FreeBSD.  It seems slower to enlarge the 
 > > process address space as well (perhaps because it does not lie).
 > 
 > This is because Linux lies to an app about new page allocation, until 
 > you attually write to a page it doesn't attually exist at all, Solaris 
 > (at least used to) allocates a page and cleans it (or make it sparse). 
 > This means it is possible on Linux to look like you have lots a memory 
 > and then suddenly runout. Solaris also use a copy on write system at 
 > forking (which I think Linux copied), that is why they are so much 
 > faster than Windows, which attually has to start a new process and copy 
 > the whole address space todo a fork, which is why it just easier to just 
 > start a new process rather than fork/exec on windows.
 > 
 > 
 > 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I do a little correction. BSD sh is ash. Debian's sh is dash. They are both 
Almquist Shell but not the same thing.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 01:50:17 +0700 Bob Friesenhahn 
 wrote 

 > On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 >  
 > > Maybe our system just showing it age. Design decision at the time they was 
 > > made are good but it's no longer true. 
 > > 
 > > It's time to change, if we are willing to change. There are plenty of 
 > > reference sources, from both Linux or the BSDs. 
 >  
 > I have always noticed that Solaris (and OpenIndiana) is slower to fork 
 > processes than Linux or FreeBSD.  It seems slower to enlarge the 
 > process address space as well (perhaps because it does not lie). 
 > Regardless, I run configure scripts under OpenIndiana and Linux very 
 > regularly and the performance difference is not nearly as large as you 
 > describe. 
 >  
 > Using ksh93 (the normal /bin/sh shell) should be the fastest, although 
 > our version has some bugs which are currently being addressed by an 
 > update. 
 >  
 > In the past I have compiled BSD ash (Also known as 'dash') under 
 > Solaris and I noticed that configure script run much faster than with 
 > bash. 
 >  
 > A long time ago I profiled executing configure scripts using Dtrace 
 > and posted the results to the GNU Autoconf list.  Due to the findings, 
 > Autoconf was made a good bit faster for all systems. 
 >  
 > There is often a common implementation element which is taking a large 
 > portion of the time.  For example, if 'sed' was slow, then that could 
 > cause a big slow down. 
 >  
 > Bob 
 > -- 
 > Bob Friesenhahn 
 > bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ 
 > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ 
 > Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt 
 >  
 > ___ 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Unfortunately, pkgsrc requires a POSIX shell so dash can't be used. They stated 
very clear on system with dash as /bin/sh, the user has to export SH=/bin/bash 
in order to have a successful bootstrap. Later the value of sh which is 
/bin/bash was carried into mk.conf, too.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 01:43:09 +0700 Peter Tribble  
wrote 

 > > As I have said on this list: pkgsrc bootstrap on OI is 4x slower than on 
 > > FreeBSD. Building packages also that slower. 
 > > 
 > > I think the problem is of the shell. Because I see it checking for 
 > > something very slowly. 
 > > 
 >  
 > Process creation (fork/exec) has been known to be slow on Solaris (and thus 
 > illumos) for years. 
 > Unfortunately things like configure and an awful lot of build tools spawn a 
 > huge number of 
 > processes - this is horrendously inefficient on all platforms, but the 
 > slowdown on the platforms 
 > where most of this stuff originates isn't so obviously bad that there's 
 > motivation to fix it. 
 >  
 > (Generally, Solaris and illumos are optimized for well-behaved software, 
 > Linux is optimised for 
 > badly behaved software. Unfortunately, there's a lot more badly behaved 
 > software out there 
 > than good stuff.) 
 >  
 >  
 > > From your own experience, which shell is the fastest? 
 > > 
 >  
 > I tried replacing sh with dash as the system shell, and it gave a decent 
 > improvement in things 
 > like boot times. 
 >  
 > -- 
 > -Peter Tribble 
 > http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ 
 > ___ 
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 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I will took me hours to write a very long mail to answer each of your points.

So I will give you a short summary: I have tried it on both physical machine 
and virtual machine, my graphics performance is good on the physical machine, I 
could watch 4K video without much tearing. I would say it's slow in any 
circumstances. Not only the output printing is slow. I really measured the time 
it took to complete the jobs to do comparison.

Hater gonna hate. I know you hate me. So I don't mind.

The fact is both Linux and OI are using bash as their default login shell for 
user, though.

Please do a little investigation before you post and don't let your plain 
hatred for someone to ruin your investigation.

I didn't asked to add any Linux shell at all. Please keep that in mind.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 01:40:13 +0700 Araragi Hokuto 
 wrote 

 > From my experience, the shell's performance hardly makes large 
 > difference, because the shell itself is *not* that different (that is, 
 > if there's a difference in the first place: most *nix I've ever seen 
 > ships with the same set of shells).
 > 
 > Given that you are stating the output printing is slow, I would like to 
 > confirm your display setting first:
 > 
 > 1) Are you running OI inside a vm, or are you running it on real 
 > hardwares? If later, can you provide the specs of hardware in use?
 > 
 > 2) What interface are you using, video console, terminal emulator under 
 > X, or something else (through ssh, etc)?
 > 
 >  a) If using video console, are you using VGA text console, or BIOS 
 > graphical console, or UEFI console? All three of them have significant 
 > performance difference on my hardware.
 > 
 >  b) If using X, what video driver are you using? Look into your Xorg 
 > log if you are not sure.
 > 
 >  c) If its something else, priovide more infomation so we can look 
 > into it.
 > 
 > I would at least confirm the problem really lies inside shell before 
 > asking maintainers to update it, and I would *NEVER* send out a mail 
 > with something like "OI is too slow for me so GO GET LINUX'S SHELL AT 
 > ONCE". Don't blame Google translator for it; we can tell the difference 
 > bewteen poor translation and true disrespect, and disrespectful mail 
 > calls for disrespectful replies.
 > 
 > On 1/20/21 12:46 AM, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote:
 > > What is profiled?
 > >
 > > I don't think it's gmake at all.
 > >
 > > How could you explain the slowness when it 'Checking for...' something?
 > >
 > > This stage is plain configure script, gmake is not yet invoked.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >  On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 23:38:21 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 > >  wrote 
 > >
 > >   > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 5:20 PM Hung Nguyen Gia via 
 > > openindiana-discuss <
 > >   > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote:
 > >   >
 > >   > > Everything on OI is too slow, so I decided to go another route.
 > >   > >
 > >   > > I tried with bash as default shell on FreeBSD and the result is the 
 > > same.
 > >   > >
 > >   > > Also tried on Debian 10 with export SH=/bin/bash, it's pretty much 
 > > as fast
 > >   > > as on FreeBSD if not to say faster.
 > >   > >
 > >   > > Bash maybe not the problem.
 > >   > >
 > >   >
 > >   > Have you profiled gnu make?
 > >   >
 > >   > >
 > >   > >
 > >   > >
 > >   > >
 > >   > >  On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:38:28 +0700 edward 
 > > 
 > >   > > wrote 
 > >   > >
 > >   > >  >
 > >   > >  > On 1/18/21 8:27 PM, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote:
 > >   > >  > > The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is line by 
 > > line,
 > >   > > very slow. Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing fast that 
 > > I
 > >   > > can't even see what's going on at all.
 > >   > >  >
 > >   > >  > suggest to try the same type of shell freebsd uses?
 > >   > >  >
 > >   > >  >
 > >   > >  >
 > >   > >  > ___
 > >   > >  > openindiana-discuss mailing list
 > >   > >  > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
 > >   > >  > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
 > >   > >  >
 > >   > >
 > >   > > ___
 > >   > > openindiana-discuss mailing list
 > &g

Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] distribution constructor for making OI spins?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

If you could please have a look at the Trinity DE, too. It's KDE3 indeed.

https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

It advertised that it support Linux, FreeBSD and DilOS.

DilOS is just another Illumos distro and I confirm that there are tde's 
packages on DilOS.

The sad thing is I can't really get them to install because of umet 
dependencies.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:46:30 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > On 2021-01-19 22:58, Judah Richardson wrote: 
 > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 12:55 AM Chris  wrote: 
 > > 
 > >> Well I was finally able to get OI on one of my spares. 
 > >> I wanted to do so, so that I could start adding/upgrading 
 > >> some OI packages. As I began looking at the process I 
 > >> stumbled on distribution-constructor and thought; why 
 > >> not build up some additional desktop installs. I had 
 > >> intended to build both the Xfce4 and Cinnamon desktop 
 > >> packages anyway. So why not ask to see if the any 
 > >> OI users/developers/caretakers would be interested in 
 > >> providing xfce4 or cinnamon desktop ISO and USB images. 
 > >> Would something like this be of any interest? 
 > >> If so. I'll start building all the necessary bits straight 
 > >> away. 
 > >> 
 > >> Thanks for your feedback. 
 > >> 
 > > Hi Chris, 
 > > 
 > > I'd be most interested in OI KDE spins. 
 > Thanks for your feedback, Judah. 
 > I'd probably be up for that. But as I haven't touched KDE in at 
 > least a year. I may be slower than you'd wish. Still, I'll 
 > make a go of it. :-) 
 > I'll likely have an Xfce4 before that. As I'm already well familiar 
 > building it. 
 >  
 > Thanks again! 
 > > 
 > > Judah 
 > > 
 >  --Chris 
 > >> -- 
 > >> 
 >  
 > -- 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] distribution constructor for making OI spins?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I would love to have XFCE.

But as I know, the OI devs will not package other DEs. They stay royal to MATE.

You can't found any other DE's packages on the repo.

There are packages for many window manager, though.

You have to do pretty much anything yourself, with your own repo publisher.

BTW, at least I know XFCE is possible on Illumos. Tribblix's default desktop is 
XFCE.

I don't have much hope about Cinnamon. But if you can bring it up, I would love 
to have it, too.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:55:13 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > Well I was finally able to get OI on one of my spares. 
 > I wanted to do so, so that I could start adding/upgrading 
 > some OI packages. As I began looking at the process I 
 > stumbled on distribution-constructor and thought; why 
 > not build up some additional desktop installs. I had 
 > intended to build both the Xfce4 and Cinnamon desktop 
 > packages anyway. So why not ask to see if the any 
 > OI users/developers/caretakers would be interested in 
 > providing xfce4 or cinnamon desktop ISO and USB images. 
 > Would something like this be of any interest? 
 > If so. I'll start building all the necessary bits straight 
 > away. 
 >  
 > Thanks for your feedback. 
 >  
 > --Chris 
 > -- 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] wiki has been dead all day

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Confirmed.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 09:58:48 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > Like the subject says. :-) 
 >  
 > Just thought I'd mention it. As I've been directed there 
 > by my searched for information. But the wiki times out with 
 > a 503. 
 >  
 > Thanks! :-) 
 >  
 >  
 > -- 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The bug is still present

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Apart from that, it has another annoying bug: the text will started to blink, 
blinking like little star when you typing. It will not stop blinking when you 
no longer type but just continue. There is no way to stop it other than just 
click to close the application. It's 100% sure after that the application is 
crashed and core dumped. Maybe it's a more reliable way to reproduce the bug 
than my previous.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 00:25:10 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > If I can, at all. As I said, I have no idea why it crashed.
 > 
 > It crashed somewhat randomly. But out of 10 attempts, I think it would 
 > crashed 8. It's the most unreliable piece of software I ever seen.
 > 
 > The last time it crashed as I recall, I opened one of the source file of the 
 > last swt version supports Solaris, swt 4.6.3, when I hit the close button of 
 > the tab it crashed.
 > 
 > So, it could be it crashed when you only have one tab left but click to 
 > close this tab but not the close button of the window itself.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 00:16:17 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 >  wrote 
 > 
 > 
 >  > 
 >  > OK, at least can you tell me how to (almost) reliably crash Pluma for 
 > instance?
 >  > 
 > 
 > ___
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The bug is still present

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

If I can, at all. As I said, I have no idea why it crashed.

It crashed somewhat randomly. But out of 10 attempts, I think it would crashed 
8. It's the most unreliable piece of software I ever seen.

The last time it crashed as I recall, I opened one of the source file of the 
last swt version supports Solaris, swt 4.6.3, when I hit the close button of 
the tab it crashed.

So, it could be it crashed when you only have one tab left but click to close 
this tab but not the close button of the window itself.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 00:16:17 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 


 > 
 > OK, at least can you tell me how to (almost) reliably crash Pluma for 
 > instance?
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The bug is still present

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Maybe my writing style make you think it's a rant. With me it's a mere report.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 00:15:04 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 


 > 
 > I am asking you for a reproducer not a rant.
 >  

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The bug is still present

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I'm not very polite but not a bad guy at all on the illumos issues page.

I'm only bad on this mailing list, to be clear.

Of course I have the core file, but can't upload it.

If I attach the OI disk into my system, the stupid BIOS will prevent the whole 
system from booting.

My hardware doesn't support hot plug of disk, too.




 On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 00:08:08 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > 
 > 
 > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 5:54 PM Hung Nguyen Gia  
 > wrote:
 > I'm not gonna to register on that illumos issues page again since I found 
 > like I'm talking to the wall and no one cares. The fact is my previous 
 > account there also lost with my previous email address. So I answer you here.
 >  
 >  https://www.illumos.org/issues/13112
 >  
 >  The bug is still present. It's my honest answer.
 >  
 >  You didn't fix it. Nothing changed at all.
 > 
 > Probably if you were more polite people would care more about your issues...
 > 
 > Maybe look upstream if a similar issue has been reported, the desktop code 
 > is barely patched.
 > If you have a core file you could attach it as well to the ticket.
 > 
 > -- 
 > ---
 > Praise the Caffeine embeddings
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The bug is still present

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Not only pluma. Graphical applications (especially GTK3 based), crashing very 
easily.

Not to mention the gnome keyring app that always crashed and core dumped. I 
have Mate terminal crashed for me, too.

But gnome keyring is trivial. As it crashed all they way for me on systems 
other than Linux (the BSDs, to be clear).

I never had the terminal emulator, Mate terminal or similar things, crashed for 
me on those system, though. Only on OI.

Graphical applications are highly unstable on OI.

Everything is very easy to crash and I have no idea why.

The only piece of graphical software that most stable on OI is, Geany and ... 
Pale Moon.

Please note that Geany is build with GTK2, though, at least the version I got 
from OI's repo.

The Pale Moon I said is build with GTK2, too. The GTK3 Pale Moon I already 
have, but not used it much so I don't know if it's as stable as the GTK2 
version or not.

I have to remove the OI disk from my system before I could do something more 
with the GTK3 Pale Moon other than loading some simple mostly text pages.




 On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 23:54:46 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 wrote 

 > I'm not gonna to register on that illumos issues page again since I found 
 > like I'm talking to the wall and no one cares. The fact is my previous 
 > account there also lost with my previous email address. So I answer you 
 > here. 
 >  
 > https://www.illumos.org/issues/13112 
 >  
 > The bug is still present. It's my honest answer. 
 >  
 > You didn't fix it. Nothing changed at all. 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] The bug is still present

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I'm not gonna to register on that illumos issues page again since I found like 
I'm talking to the wall and no one cares. The fact is my previous account there 
also lost with my previous email address. So I answer you here.

https://www.illumos.org/issues/13112

The bug is still present. It's my honest answer.

You didn't fix it. Nothing changed at all.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

What is profiled?

I don't think it's gmake at all.

How could you explain the slowness when it 'Checking for...' something?

This stage is plain configure script, gmake is not yet invoked.




 On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 23:38:21 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 5:20 PM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss < 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 >  
 > > Everything on OI is too slow, so I decided to go another route. 
 > > 
 > > I tried with bash as default shell on FreeBSD and the result is the same. 
 > > 
 > > Also tried on Debian 10 with export SH=/bin/bash, it's pretty much as fast 
 > > as on FreeBSD if not to say faster. 
 > > 
 > > Bash maybe not the problem. 
 > > 
 >  
 > Have you profiled gnu make? 
 >  
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > ---- On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:38:28 +0700 edward  
 > > wrote  
 > > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > On 1/18/21 8:27 PM, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > >  > > The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is line by line, 
 > > very slow. Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing fast that I 
 > > can't even see what's going on at all. 
 > >  > 
 > >  > suggest to try the same type of shell freebsd uses? 
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > ___ 
 > >  > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >  > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >  > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > >  > 
 > > 
 > > ___ 
 > > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > > 
 >  
 >  
 > -- 
 > --- 
 > Praise the Caffeine embeddings 
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Both systems are ZFS and have the same configuration (memory, cpu cores,...).

I don't know how to use Solaris specific tools. But I could check some of the 
value via top.

It seemed the system did the best it can. All cores are used. Memory are not 
left free, too. Nothing was wasted. It's in heavy load.

But the system is just... slow.




 On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 11:54:00 +0700 Joshua M. Clulow  
wrote 

 > On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 at 20:27, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 >  wrote: 
 > > OI included many shells. So far I only stick with the default, bash. 
 > > But the performance is very bad. e.g: when using pkgsrc to build packages. 
 > > 
 > > As I have said on this list: pkgsrc bootstrap on OI is 4x slower than on 
 > > FreeBSD. Building packages also that slower. 
 > > 
 > > I think the problem is of the shell. Because I see it checking for 
 > > something very slowly. 
 > > 
 > > The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is line by line, very 
 > > slow. Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing fast that I can't 
 > > even see what's going on at all. 
 > > 
 > > I'm thinking about using other shell than bash. 
 > > 
 > > But I can't test with each shell. They are too many. 
 > > 
 > > From your own experience, which shell is the fastest? 
 >  
 > I think you're making some big assumptions about what's going on here. 
 > It feels like it would be a better idea to characterise the workload 
 > that you feel is not running well enough. 
 >  
 > You can run the pkgsrc bootstrap over and over again, on demand, so 
 > that seems a pretty easy workload to look at first.  I would start by 
 > trying to see if there is an obvious bottleneck; e.g., does "mpstat 1 
 > 1" show you that all of the CPUs are 100% busy all of the time?  If 
 > they are not, maybe look to see what's happening with respect to I/O; 
 > e.g., "iostat -xn 1" might show high latency or utilisation during the 
 > build. 
 >  
 > There are a _lot_ of variables to investigate when comparing two OSes. 
 > Are you using ZFS root for FreeBSD as well as for OpenIndiana?  Is the 
 > pkgsrc bootstrap spawning more or less processes in parallel on each 
 > system? 
 >  
 > A lot of "configure" scripts tend to spawn a large number of 
 > processes.  Perhaps our fork() is more expensive than FreeBSD fork(). 
 > You could investigate the rate and quantity of new processes created, 
 > the latency of various system calls with DTrace, etc.  If a lot of CPU 
 > time is being spent in the kernel, you could use DTrace to profile 
 > stacks and render them as a Flamegraph to see if there is an obvious 
 > bottleneck. 
 >  
 > One could even imagine a scenario where the speed of the build is 
 > constrained by pipe buffer performance between the bootstrap program 
 > and the SSH daemon on the system, or the graphical console.  If you 
 > redirect the build output to /dev/null or to a tmpfs file, does the 
 > build run any faster? 
 >  
 > At any rate, lots to explore.  I would start by looking at what the 
 > computer is actually doing, rather than exploring replacement shells. 
 > Once you get some preliminary results, I am sure folks will be 
 > interested in your findings. 
 >  
 >  
 > Cheers. 
 >  
 > -- 
 > Joshua M. Clulow 
 > http://blog.sysmgr.org 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Maybe our system just showing it age. Design decision at the time they was made 
are good but it's no longer true.

It's time to change, if we are willing to change. There are plenty of reference 
sources, from both Linux or the BSDs.




 On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 17:17:54 +0700 Jim Klimov  wrote 

 > On January 19, 2021 4:27:04 AM UTC, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 >  wrote: 
 > >OI included many shells. So far I only stick with the default, bash. 
 > > 
 > >But the performance is very bad. e.g: when using pkgsrc to build 
 > >packages. 
 > > 
 > >As I have said on this list: pkgsrc bootstrap on OI is 4x slower than 
 > >on FreeBSD. Building packages also that slower. 
 > > 
 > >I think the problem is of the shell. Because I see it checking for 
 > >something very slowly. 
 > > 
 > >The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is line by line, 
 > >very slow. Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing fast that I 
 > >can't even see what's going on at all. 
 > > 
 > >I'm thinking about using other shell than bash. 
 > > 
 > >But I can't test with each shell. They are too many. 
 > > 
 > >From your own experience, which shell is the fastest? 
 > > 
 > >___ 
 > >openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > >openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > >https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 >  
 > This matches my experience sadly, also on systems with ksh93 as the real 
 > default system shell since Solaris, and e.g. configure scripts using that 
 > as-is or patched to use bash explicitly. 
 >  
 > Same codebase mounted from OI over NFS to a Linux VM passes configuration 
 > much faster - so it is not e.g. overheads of disk/FS layers. 
 >  
 > Similarly for shell/fork heavy tests like https://github.com/42ity/JSON.sh 
 > unit-testing (nearly zero I/O, but lots of shells tried) - the linux worker 
 > completes minutes before OI does. 
 >  
 > As far as I could unravel and guess, this is just about a more expensive 
 > forking routine (RBAC and all) than on less protective OSes. This is a PITA 
 > sadly, but unless something is just broken in the kernel but rather really 
 > does more work by design because of different goals and trade-offs, then so 
 > be it. 
 >  
 > If something *is* broken and can be made faster, it would be much 
 > appreciated :-) 
 >  
 > Jim 
 >  
 > -- 
 > Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Android 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Everything on OI is too slow, so I decided to go another route.

I tried with bash as default shell on FreeBSD and the result is the same.

Also tried on Debian 10 with export SH=/bin/bash, it's pretty much as fast as 
on FreeBSD if not to say faster.

Bash maybe not the problem.




 On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:38:28 +0700 edward  
wrote 

 > 
 > On 1/18/21 8:27 PM, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > > The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is line by line, very 
 > > slow. Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing fast that I can't 
 > > even see what's going on at all. 
 >  
 > suggest to try the same type of shell freebsd uses? 
 >  
 >  
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] cross/mingw-w64 failed to compile on SunOS

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

The SunOS variant I'm using is OpenIndiana.

I think it's better to contact the developers of it rather than doing our own 
patches to mingw-w64.




 On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 17:08:49 +0700 Hung Nguyen Gia 
 wrote 

 > It has more than just SHARED. 
 >  
 > I edited deffilep.c and add #undef SHARED. 
 >  
 > Now it failed with WRITE in a similar way to SHARED: 
 >  
 > In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:37, 
 >  from sysdep.h:80, 
 >  from deffilep.y:22: 
 > deffilep.c:234:5: error: expected identifier before numeric constant 
 >  234 | WRITE = 277, 
 >  | ^~ 
 > deffilep.c:265: warning: "SHARED" redefined 
 >  265 | #define WRITE 277 
 >  | 
 > In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:37, 
 >  from sysdep.h:80, 
 >  from deffilep.y:22: 
 > /usr/include/sys/mman.h:105: note: this is the location of the previous 
 > definition 
 >  105 | #define SHARED  0x10 
 >  | 
 > gmake[4]: *** [Makefile:2148: deffilep.o] Error 1 
 > gmake[4]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs 
 > gmake[5]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[5]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > mv -f .deps/pe-dll.Tpo .deps/pe-dll.Po 
 > gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[3]: *** [Makefile:1751: all-recursive] Error 1 
 > gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[2]: *** [Makefile:1035: all] Error 2 
 > gmake[2]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[1]: *** [Makefile:7213: all-ld] Error 2 
 > gmake[1]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1'
 >  
 > gmake: *** [Makefile:853: all] Error 2 
 > *** Error code 2 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake[3]: stopped in 
 > /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils 
 > *** Error code 1 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake[2]: stopped in 
 > /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils 
 > *** Error code 1 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake[1]: stopped in /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-gcc 
 > *** Error code 1 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake: stopped in /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64 
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  
 >  On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:59:50 +0700 Roland Illig  
 > wrote  
 >  
 >  > On 19.01.2021 05:17, Hung Nguyen Gia wrote: 
 >  > > In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:37, 
 >  > >   from sysdep.h:80, 
 >  > >   from deffilep.y:22: 
 >  > > deffilep.c:234:5: error: expected identifier before numeric constant 
 >  > >234 | SHARED = 279, 
 >  > >| ^~ 
 >  > > deffilep.c:265: warning: "SHARED" redefined 
 >  > >265 | #define SHARED 279 
 >  > >| 
 >  > > In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:37, 
 >  > >   from sysdep.h:80, 
 >  > >   from deffilep.y:22: 
 >  > > /usr/include/sys/mman.h:105: note: this is the location of the previous 
 > definition 
 >  > >105 | #define SHARED  0x10 
 >  > 
 >  > The error messages are quite clear in this case. 
 >  > 
 >  >  defines the preprocessor macro SHARED to 0x10. 
 >  > 
 >  > Since deffilep.c includes , line 234 reads now: 
 >  > 
 >  >  0x10 = 279 
 >  > 
 >  > This doesn't make sense of course since an enumerator declaration must 
 >  > have a _name_, not a _number_, on the left-hand side of the '='. 
 >  > 
 >  > Later, deffilep.c redefines the preprocessor macro SHARED to 279, which 
 >  > adds an inconsistency. 
 >  > 
 >  > To fix this, either rename the token SHARED in deffilep.c or have a look 
 >  > at /usr/include/sys/mman.h to see in which circumstances the macro 
 >  > SHARED gets defined, and whether you can avoid that.  You cannot have 
 >  > both definitions for SHARED at the same time, since they contradict each 
 >  > other. 
 >  > 
 >  > Roland 
 >  > 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Fwd: cross/mingw-w64 failed to compile on SunOS

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

mingw-w64 failed to build on OI.




 Forwarded message 
From: Hung Nguyen Gia 
To: "Pkgsrc Users"
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 11:17:22 +0700
Subject: cross/mingw-w64 failed to compile on SunOS
 Forwarded message 

 > In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:37, 
 >  from sysdep.h:80, 
 >  from deffilep.y:22: 
 > deffilep.c:234:5: error: expected identifier before numeric constant 
 >  234 | SHARED = 279, 
 >  | ^~ 
 > deffilep.c:265: warning: "SHARED" redefined 
 >  265 | #define SHARED 279 
 >  | 
 > In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:37, 
 >  from sysdep.h:80, 
 >  from deffilep.y:22: 
 > /usr/include/sys/mman.h:105: note: this is the location of the previous 
 > definition 
 >  105 | #define SHARED  0x10 
 >  | 
 > gmake[4]: *** [Makefile:2148: deffilep.o] Error 1 
 > gmake[4]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs 
 > mv -f .deps/plugin.Tpo .deps/plugin.Po 
 > mv -f .deps/ldlang.Tpo .deps/ldlang.Po 
 > mv -f .deps/pep-dll.Tpo .deps/pep-dll.Po 
 > gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[3]: *** [Makefile:1751: all-recursive] Error 1 
 > gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[2]: *** [Makefile:1035: all] Error 2 
 > gmake[2]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1/ld'
 >  
 > gmake[1]: *** [Makefile:7213: all-ld] Error 2 
 > gmake[1]: Leaving directory 
 > '/export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils/work/binutils-2.35.1'
 >  
 > gmake: *** [Makefile:853: all] Error 2 
 > *** Error code 2 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake[3]: stopped in 
 > /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils 
 > WARNING: *** Please consider adding c++ to USE_LANGUAGES in the package 
 > Makefile. 
 > *** Error code 1 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake[2]: stopped in 
 > /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-binutils 
 > *** Error code 1 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake[1]: stopped in /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64-x86_64-gcc 
 > *** Error code 1 
 >  
 > Stop. 
 > bmake: stopped in /export/home/hung/pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64 
 >  
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

OI included many shells. So far I only stick with the default, bash.

But the performance is very bad. e.g: when using pkgsrc to build packages.

As I have said on this list: pkgsrc bootstrap on OI is 4x slower than on 
FreeBSD. Building packages also that slower.

I think the problem is of the shell. Because I see it checking for something 
very slowly.

The output printed on the screen 'Checking for...' is line by line, very slow. 
Meanwhile, the same thing on FreeBSD is blazing fast that I can't even see 
what's going on at all.

I'm thinking about using other shell than bash.

But I can't test with each shell. They are too many.

>From your own experience, which shell is the fastest?

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Could you update your sysroot, jclulow?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Thank you. I have do this for a long time.
I'm trying to cross compile Pale Moon for OI from Linux, which is a very 
different story, though.



 On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 19:37:00 +0700 Stephan Althaus 
 wrote 

 > Hi! 
 >  
 > Building PaleMoon for your private use is easy on OI with this 
 > informations, tried it yesterday: 
 >  
 > http://developer.palemoon.org/build/sunos/ 
 >  
 > Greetings, 
 > Stephan 
 >  
 >  
 > On 01/18/21 13:15, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > > I ended up make my own sysroot using tar on a minimal OI installation with 
 > > gcc-10 installed. 
 > > 
 > > Now I have a working cross compiler, even for C++. 
 > > 
 > > The key is also include /usr/gcc/10/include and /usr/gcc/10/lib in the 
 > > tarball. 
 > > 
 > > But I don't think I could cross compile Pale Moon for OI from Linux at 
 > > all. 
 > > 
 > > I think I still have to mess with distribution constructor. 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >  On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 05:04:59 +0700 Joshua M. Clulow via 
 > > openindiana-discuss  wrote ---- 
 > > 
 > >   > On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 05:24, Peter Tribble  
 > > wrote: 
 > >   > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 11:15 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via 
 > > openindiana-discuss < 
 > >   > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 > >   > > > I wanted to use your sysroot here to build a cross compiler for OI 
 > > from 
 > >   > > > Linux: 
 > >   > > > 
 > >   > > > https://github.com/illumos/sysroot 
 > >   > > > 
 > >   > > > But it seemed you didn't include the C++ part. I couldn't find 
 > > them. There 
 > >   > > > is no C++ headers, e.g: cmath, iostream,... nor the C++ standard 
 > > library 
 > >   > > > itself. 
 > >   > > Those are supplied by the toolchain, in our case usually gcc. And 
 > > you would 
 > >   > > normally 
 > >   > > need to ensure that the versions in the sysroot are compatible (for 
 > >   > > whatever definition of 
 > >   > > compatible you're interested in) with the toolchain you're using. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > Right.  The official illumos sysroot contains, as much as possible, 
 > >   > only things that are delivered directly from illumos-gate.  A small 
 > >   > exception is made for libssp and libgcc_s, after an extensive survey 
 > >   > was undertaken to determine if compatible versions of those libraries 
 > >   > were available in basically all shipping distributions.  As described 
 > >   > in the release notes, the copies of these libraries included within 
 > >   > the archive are stubs: they contain no executable code, and would not 
 > >   > actually _work_ if you attempted to use them on an illumos system. 
 > >   > They're just for cross-compilation. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > Unlike libgcc_s and libssp, there aren't sufficiently strong backwards 
 > >   > compatibility guarantees made about any of the C++ runtimes, or 
 > >   > OpenSSL, or many other commonly used components.  On that basis, 
 > >   > they're not good candidates for an illumos sysroot. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > You could, on the other hand, select a specific distribution (and 
 > >   > presumably a specific version) to create a different sort of sysroot. 
 > >   > That sysroot archive could then include anything that was guaranteed 
 > >   > to be available within the distribution; a process of selection that 
 > >   > would depend a lot on the policies of that specific distribution and 
 > >   > on your goals. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > > > This sysroot is also a bit old, too. 
 > >   > > A sysroot can be used for a variety of uses. This one is targetted 
 > > at 
 > >   > > building software on 
 > >   > > a current host that will still run correctly on an older system. 
 > >   > 
 > >   > More specifically than that, it was built almost exclusively at the 
 > >   > time with Rust in mind.  The Rust project uses this sysroot archive 
 > >   > within a Linux docker container to cross-compile the Rust toolchain 
 > >   > (including Cargo, etc) for illumos.  Selecting the specific version 
 > >   > here was a balance between the widest possible audience (thus, the 
 > >   > oldest contents) and the inclusion of the getrandom(2) public API. 
 > >   > More details on our choice are in the release notes: 
 > >   > 
 > >   > 
 > > https://github.co

Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Could you update your sysroot, jclulow?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I ended up make my own sysroot using tar on a minimal OI installation with 
gcc-10 installed.

Now I have a working cross compiler, even for C++.

The key is also include /usr/gcc/10/include and /usr/gcc/10/lib in the tarball.

But I don't think I could cross compile Pale Moon for OI from Linux at all.

I think I still have to mess with distribution constructor.


 On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 05:04:59 +0700 Joshua M. Clulow via 
openindiana-discuss  wrote 

 > On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 05:24, Peter Tribble  wrote: 
 > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 11:15 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss < 
 > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 > > > I wanted to use your sysroot here to build a cross compiler for OI from 
 > > > Linux: 
 > > > 
 > > > https://github.com/illumos/sysroot 
 > > > 
 > > > But it seemed you didn't include the C++ part. I couldn't find them. 
 > > > There 
 > > > is no C++ headers, e.g: cmath, iostream,... nor the C++ standard library 
 > > > itself. 
 > > Those are supplied by the toolchain, in our case usually gcc. And you 
 > > would 
 > > normally 
 > > need to ensure that the versions in the sysroot are compatible (for 
 > > whatever definition of 
 > > compatible you're interested in) with the toolchain you're using. 
 >  
 > Right.  The official illumos sysroot contains, as much as possible, 
 > only things that are delivered directly from illumos-gate.  A small 
 > exception is made for libssp and libgcc_s, after an extensive survey 
 > was undertaken to determine if compatible versions of those libraries 
 > were available in basically all shipping distributions.  As described 
 > in the release notes, the copies of these libraries included within 
 > the archive are stubs: they contain no executable code, and would not 
 > actually _work_ if you attempted to use them on an illumos system. 
 > They're just for cross-compilation. 
 >  
 > Unlike libgcc_s and libssp, there aren't sufficiently strong backwards 
 > compatibility guarantees made about any of the C++ runtimes, or 
 > OpenSSL, or many other commonly used components.  On that basis, 
 > they're not good candidates for an illumos sysroot. 
 >  
 > You could, on the other hand, select a specific distribution (and 
 > presumably a specific version) to create a different sort of sysroot. 
 > That sysroot archive could then include anything that was guaranteed 
 > to be available within the distribution; a process of selection that 
 > would depend a lot on the policies of that specific distribution and 
 > on your goals. 
 >  
 > > > This sysroot is also a bit old, too. 
 > > A sysroot can be used for a variety of uses. This one is targetted at 
 > > building software on 
 > > a current host that will still run correctly on an older system. 
 >  
 > More specifically than that, it was built almost exclusively at the 
 > time with Rust in mind.  The Rust project uses this sysroot archive 
 > within a Linux docker container to cross-compile the Rust toolchain 
 > (including Cargo, etc) for illumos.  Selecting the specific version 
 > here was a balance between the widest possible audience (thus, the 
 > oldest contents) and the inclusion of the getrandom(2) public API. 
 > More details on our choice are in the release notes: 
 >  
 >  https://github.com/illumos/sysroot/releases/tag/20181213-de6af22ae73b-v1 
 >  
 > We will likely at some point select a new version of the gate to 
 > create a new sysroot.  This will probably not happen until we need to 
 > use a new interface of some kind that was added some time after 
 > December 2018.  When we get there, it will likely _still_ seem to be 
 > an old version -- the 20181213 sysroot was, after all, created in 
 > April 2020. 
 >  
 > If we were to create a new sysroot in April 2021, it may well be from 
 > gate bits towards the end of 2019 or very early 2020.  Any newer and 
 > it is unlikely to result in binaries that can be used on, as much as 
 > possible, all supported distribution releases.  You can see from the 
 > release schedule at OmniOS that some of their LTS releases are 
 > supported for a long time, and we want the sysroot to produce binaries 
 > that can be used there: 
 >  
 >  https://omniosce.org/schedule 
 >  
 > The current LTS release is r151030, which was released in May 2019 and 
 > will be supported until May 2022.  That makes it unlikely that the 
 > released sysroot would advance past May 2019 until 2022, unless we 
 > could find a way around the problem. 
 >  
 > > Generally I would expect anyone using a sysroot to have a pretty specific 
 > > target in mind. 
 > > It's not that hard to cr

Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Could you update your sysroot, jclulow?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Excuse me please but even having read this very long manual I still have no 
idea how to use pkg image-create for my purpose!

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E36784_01/html/E36870/pkg-1.html


 On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 20:23:31 +0700 Peter Tribble  
wrote 

 > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 11:15 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss < 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 >  
 > > I wanted to use your sysroot here to build a cross compiler for OI from 
 > > Linux: 
 > > 
 > > https://github.com/illumos/sysroot 
 > > 
 > > But it seemed you didn't include the C++ part. I couldn't find them. There 
 > > is no C++ headers, e.g: cmath, iostream,... nor the C++ standard library 
 > > itself. 
 > > 
 >  
 > Those are supplied by the toolchain, in our case usually gcc. And you would 
 > normally 
 > need to ensure that the versions in the sysroot are compatible (for 
 > whatever definition of 
 > compatible you're interested in) with the toolchain you're using. 
 >  
 >  
 > > This sysroot is also a bit old, too. 
 > > 
 >  
 > A sysroot can be used for a variety of uses. This one is targetted at 
 > building software on 
 > a current host that will still run correctly on an older system. (This is 
 > also the way that 
 > Oracle built Java for Solaris, I believe, using a Solaris 10 sysroot on a 
 > Solaris 11 build 
 > system so that the resulting binaries will still run on Solaris 10.) 
 >  
 > Generally I would expect anyone using a sysroot to have a pretty specific 
 > target in mind. 
 > It's not that hard to create, either simply copying an existing system that 
 > has the bits you 
 > want, or using packaging - pkg has the image-create functionality designed 
 > for exactly 
 > this purpose. 
 >  
 > Please correct me if I'm wrong. 
 > > 
 > > ___ 
 > > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > > 
 >  
 >  
 > -- 
 > -Peter Tribble 
 > http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ 
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Building packages from source

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

It's not that simple. Chromium is not really a portable software. Don't expect 
it to compile out of the box without patches.




 On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 20:07:36 +0700 Donald Willinger 
 wrote 

 > Is it possible to take programs such as Chromium and build them in 
 > Openindiana? 
 > ___ 
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 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Could you update your sysroot, jclulow?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I wanted to use your sysroot here to build a cross compiler for OI from Linux:

https://github.com/illumos/sysroot

But it seemed you didn't include the C++ part. I couldn't find them. There is 
no C++ headers, e.g: cmath, iostream,... nor the C++ standard library itself.

This sysroot is also a bit old, too.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to expand the live usb to use all of the space on the device?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

My usb is 16 GB. The live image after dd-ed into it only consumes about 1.9 GB. 
I want to be able to use the remaining space, from the live system. How to do 
this? Thanks.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Developer Edition

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Sorry because I had caused all of this misunderstanding. I'm not good at 
English. The product of Google Translate + poor human skills created this. My 
choice of words is unwise or could be plain wrong. Due to affect of mental 
drugs I have to take, I did many weirded things on this list. Sorry everyone.

Let me describe what I want to do:

I'm not going to create a fork.

The current OI Desktop doesn't include build tools by default. I suggest to add 
the build-essential package, so it's possible to build illumos-gate using the 
live image, without having to install to HDD, given we had enough RAM and 
external disk space.

Given my experience so far, I think this will not be accepted. So I'm going to 
create my own live image of OI, I would called OI Developer Edition, if I'm 
allowed to use the name OI. I would use this image for myself, but could share 
with others, too. Perhaps I will upload it to my Google Drive.

I had read about Distribution Constructor. But have no experience with it so 
far. So I'm asking for a guide how to use this tool to create my own image of 
OI.

I think I will pull packages from OI's repo but not build anything myself if 
it's possible.

What I wanted to do is nothing other than remastering OI. Remastering a distro 
is what we do very regular on Linux. We have tools to do this, e.g: 
https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-snapshot and 
https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-remaster

I think Distribution Constructor is the equivalent tool on OI. Correct me if 
I'm wrong.

The packages listed other than build-essential is for building Pale Moon. Yes, 
Pale Moon again.

Your project refused to package it. Atenian200 after the clash with you also no 
longer provide prebuilt binary. The last version he provided is here: 
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=40=24613 which is a very outdated 
one. If someone wanted to get Pale Moon, they have to compile from source.

OI currently has problems with my UEFI firmware. I can only run OI as a live 
usb but the installed OI I still keep on my SSD is unable to boot.

Everything I did is seeking for a workaround for this: a live system with all 
of the tools needed.

I'm going to provide up to date prebuilt binary of Pale Moon. Of course, via my 
Google Drive.

But it's all cheap talks if I can't run OI itself.

I used to think about cross compile from Linux. But I can only has the C cross 
compiler working. Everything C++ failed.

Cross compiling a complex software like Pale Moon also means asking for 
troubles.

 On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 00:14:51 +0700 Adam Števko  
wrote 

 > Hello, 
 >  
 > out or curiosity, what exactly is the point and added of your proposed fork? 
 > Those packages can be easily installed any time after installing OI. 
 >  
 > I am not sure which exact changes were rejected, but if your raise a 
 > discussion and explain clearly why they are needed, OI developers are more 
 > than happy to accept. 
 >  
 > So, instead of forking and creating a “new distribution”, further 
 > fragmenting the illumos distribution market, cooperate and help us improve 
 > the existing project. There are lot of gaps where improvements are needed 
 > and extra manpower is more than welcome. At the end, I can’t tell you want 
 > to do, but can try and nicely ask you to collaborate. Please, collaborate 
 > with OI team to improve the current experience, more people will benefit 
 > from it! 
 >  
 > P.S: Keeping python-27 around is quite dangerous as the upstream ended any 
 > kind of support of Python 2.x and without proper experience you are just put 
 > potential users in danger. 
 >  
 > Thanks for understanding, 
 > Adam 
 >  
 >  
 >  
 > > On 16 Jan 2021, at 11:02, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 > >  wrote: 
 > > 
 > > Someone on this list challenged me of forking OpenIndiana in order for my 
 > > changes to be accepted. This is exactly what I'm going to do now. But I 
 > > will do it moderately, according to my skills. 
 > > 
 > > I wanted to build something like in the title. 
 > > 
 > > It's the normal desktop OI plus the following packages: 
 > > 
 > > build-essential 
 > > cmake 
 > > ninja 
 > > meson 
 > > yasm 
 > > autoconf-213 
 > > header-audio 
 > > sunpro 
 > > motif 
 > > python-27 
 > > 
 > > More packages would be included in the future, if needed. 
 > > 
 > > My computer power doesn't allow me to build everything myself, so I think 
 > > I will just pull the packages from OI repo. 
 > > 
 > > The goal is to have a live ISO/USB images contain these additional 
 > > packages. 
 > > 
 > > I have come across this wiki: 
 > > 
 > > http://docs.openindiana.org/dev/distribution-constructor/ 
 > > 
 > > But it's still not very clear to me. Any help would be appreciated. 
 > > 
 > > ___ 
 > > oi-dev mailing list 
 > > oi-...@openindiana.org 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana Developer Edition

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Someone on this list challenged me of forking OpenIndiana in order for my 
changes to be accepted. This is exactly what I'm going to do now. But I will do 
it moderately, according to my skills.

I wanted to build something like in the title.

It's the normal desktop OI plus the following packages:

build-essential
cmake
ninja
meson
yasm
autoconf-213
header-audio
sunpro
motif
python-27

More packages would be included in the future, if needed.

My computer power doesn't allow me to build everything myself, so I think I 
will just pull the packages from OI repo.

The goal is to have a live ISO/USB images contain these additional packages.

I have come across this wiki:

http://docs.openindiana.org/dev/distribution-constructor/

But it's still not very clear to me. Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

You don't have to. I'm bored talking with people doesn't hear me.

And I also said everything I could say. The decision is up to you.

No need to kick my ass out of this list.

 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:25:29 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > 
 > 
 > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 12:12 PM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 >  wrote:
 > I have no power to make decisions. But I will show you what I mean when I 
 > said SANE or INSANE.
 >  
 >  First, we have to know where we are. The glory of Solaris has faded to the 
 > past.
 >  
 >  Today, we are even inferior to FreeBSD! Honestly speaking, if someone 
 > wanted to build a server, both for normal or storage purpose, I would 
 > recommend them to use FreeBSD.
 >  
 >  FreeBSD got their ZFS from Illumos, right. But today, FreeBSD's ZFS is more 
 > easy to use and more stable than Illumos!
 >  
 >  Not to mention initiative like ZoF. You are left behind. Yes, I know you 
 > will going to go to OpenZFS 2.0, too.
 >  
 >  Since there is no where else you could go. You don't have the ability to 
 > maintain ZFS yourself.
 >  
 >  Then the only way is to rely on Linux people's work, ZoL, with a fancy 
 > rename to be OpenZFS 2.0, nothing other than ZoL with a bunch of #ifdef for 
 > other minor OSes.
 >  
 >  Yes, you are now being a minor OSes. Accept it or not, you are no longer 
 > upstream. Do you feel any shame when it's all reversed? From being upstream, 
 > now just a downstream minority only able to going thanks to the mercy of the 
 > Linux guys?
 >  
 >  Not to mention, if it's about a desktop system, what OI is for, OI is 
 > completely inferior to FreeBSD.
 >  
 >  Just download GhostBSD, compare, and see.
 >  
 >  The BSDs could reject Pale Moon, because they have PLENTY of alternatives. 
 > They have working Firefox, some of them even Chromium.
 >  
 >  What do you have now? Are you in a place you could do as them? No way!
 >  
 >  Do you able to show me even just a preview version of the Firefox you are 
 > working on?
 >  
 >  You can't, do you?
 >  
 >  It's SANE to just import Pale Moon into the encumbered repo. They are 
 > plenty of software they install to /opt, doesn't it? Just put Pale Moon and 
 > all of their sh8t shipped libraries there and no one care.
 >  
 >  It's INSANE when you don't know what you are and where you are but act as 
 > like you have plenty of choices when indeed you have NONE. You are not any 
 > less ARROGANT than the Pale Moon devs. I think it can only be MORE than them.
 >  
 >  Accept that you are LOSER, and do your best to get back to your place, it's 
 > what SANE people do.
 >  
 >  INSANE people talk very much about discipline, 'quality standard', bla 
 > bla... but indeed can deliver nothing! Proving wrong very easy, give me a 
 > preview of your Firefox! But I know, you can't.
 > 
 > Hi,
 > there is probably no question that illumos is a minor OS when it comes to 
 > the size of the community; hardware support and software availability is 
 > therefore more limited than systems backed by big companies and a few 
 > hundred developers.
 > 
 > However until now this small community has always been courteous and 
 > friendly.
 > 
 > Could you please make your point in a less offensive manner and possibly be 
 > more constructive?
 > 
 > These mailing lists are a place for people exchanging ideas and providing 
 > help, not for arsonists.
 > 
 > If you cannot cool your jets you'll be sent off the pitch for one week.
 > 
 > Kind regards,
 > 
 > Aurélien
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  
 > 
 > 
 >  On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:00:16 +0700 Volker A. Brandt  
 > wrote 
 >  
 >   > > All of your so called 'quality standard' are just pure BS. 
 >   > > 
 >   > >  > Buf if you really want to act like a boss and have Pale Moon on OI 
 > as 
 >   > >  > your wish, consider DM-ing me? I think I can arrange that for you 
 > -- if 
 >   > >  > you pay me will enough, of course. 
 >   > >  > 
 >   > > 
 >   > > I don't want to be boss. The fact is I suffered from such people on my 
 > real life. 
 >   > > 
 >   > > But frankly speaking, your team needs more people like that. At least 
 > they are SANE. 
 >   >  
 >   > With your superior intellect, and your sharp powers of observation, in a 
 >   > matter of days, you have identified many of the problems the incompetent 
 >   > and insane OI devs have failed to fix for years. 
 >   >  
 >   > Congratulations! 
 >   >  
 >   > So which one are you going to start working on first? 
 >   >  
 >   >  
 >   > Regards -- Volker 
 >   &g

Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I'm sure I can't get what I want, because of my experience so far I know what 
kind of people you guys are.

Just a bunch of DELUSIONAL and ARROGANT people!

I continue writing here only because I want to do so.

It's not for no reason I said your reasoning are BS. If you really care please 
have a look again on the entire thread, you could see why.

I have build Pale Moon and enjoying it for a long time, thanks to atenian200. 
You don't have to teach me how to.


 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:20:13 +0700 Araragi Hokuto 
 wrote 

 > On 1/14/21 5:50 PM, Hung Nguyen Gia wrote: 
 > >  On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:34:42 +0700 Araragi Hokuto 
 > >  wrote  
 > > 
 > >   > The word "job" has different meaning in different places to different 
 > >   > people. And in this community, I believe it's normally interpreted as 
 > >   > "shipping an OS which uphold to our quality standard", not "serving 
 > > the 
 > >   > need of any random person who come and yell at us". 
 > > 
 > > All of your so called 'quality standard' are just pure BS. 
 >  
 > Treating other people's word as BS will likely results in other people 
 > treating your word as BS in return. 
 >  
 > >   > Buf if you really want to act like a boss and have Pale Moon on OI as 
 > >   > your wish, consider DM-ing me? I think I can arrange that for you -- 
 > > if 
 > >   > you pay me will enough, of course. 
 > >   > 
 > > 
 > > I don't want to be boss. The fact is I suffered from such people on my 
 > > real life. 
 > > 
 > > But frankly speaking, your team needs more people like that. At least they 
 > > are SANE. 
 >  
 > Do we need more people to work with us, and help us get things done? Yes. 
 >  
 > Do we need more people to yell at us asking for what *THEY* want, 
 > treating us with no respect, calling our word BS when we explain our 
 > decision (and the reason behind it), while contributing *LITERALLY 
 > NOTHING* back to us? Probably not. 
 >  
 > Let me remind you: This is an open-source project, provided to you free 
 > of charge (if not, find the person who charged you and take your rant to 
 > them). We take nothing from you, made no contract with you, and we are 
 > not obligated to serve your need or tolerant your disrespect. 
 >  
 > If you still want everything as your wish but doesn't want to spend 
 > money, how about the following options: 
 >  
 > 1) Compile Pale Moon on your own OI installation, and enjoy it. In case 
 > you don't know, we not adding it to our repo won't magically erase it 
 > from your hard drive. 
 >  
 > For other things you want, you can take a similar approach and "fix" 
 > them by yourself. 
 >  
 > 2) Create a fork of OI (or something else, like the unleashed-OS you 
 > mentioned earlier) and ship whatever you want with it. You have the 
 > source code, you can do whatever you want with them -- as long as you 
 > don't violate the license. 
 >  
 > 3) Learn to treat others with respect, and co-op with other people to 
 > find a solution. But judging by your behaviour in this list, I suspect 
 > this is the most difficult option to you -- so I sincerely recommend you 
 > to consider the other two options. 
 >  
 > I can't stop you from keep doing what you're trying to do right now, but 
 > you should've learned that it's pretty unlikely to get what you want in 
 > this way, so choose wisely. 
 >  
 > Have a nice day. 
 >  
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I have no power to make decisions. But I will show you what I mean when I said 
SANE or INSANE.

First, we have to know where we are. The glory of Solaris has faded to the past.

Today, we are even inferior to FreeBSD! Honestly speaking, if someone wanted to 
build a server, both for normal or storage purpose, I would recommend them to 
use FreeBSD.

FreeBSD got their ZFS from Illumos, right. But today, FreeBSD's ZFS is more 
easy to use and more stable than Illumos!

Not to mention initiative like ZoF. You are left behind. Yes, I know you will 
going to go to OpenZFS 2.0, too.

Since there is no where else you could go. You don't have the ability to 
maintain ZFS yourself.

Then the only way is to rely on Linux people's work, ZoL, with a fancy rename 
to be OpenZFS 2.0, nothing other than ZoL with a bunch of #ifdef for other 
minor OSes.

Yes, you are now being a minor OSes. Accept it or not, you are no longer 
upstream. Do you feel any shame when it's all reversed? From being upstream, 
now just a downstream minority only able to going thanks to the mercy of the 
Linux guys?

Not to mention, if it's about a desktop system, what OI is for, OI is 
completely inferior to FreeBSD.

Just download GhostBSD, compare, and see.

The BSDs could reject Pale Moon, because they have PLENTY of alternatives. They 
have working Firefox, some of them even Chromium.

What do you have now? Are you in a place you could do as them? No way!

Do you able to show me even just a preview version of the Firefox you are 
working on?

You can't, do you?

It's SANE to just import Pale Moon into the encumbered repo. They are plenty of 
software they install to /opt, doesn't it? Just put Pale Moon and all of their 
sh8t shipped libraries there and no one care.

It's INSANE when you don't know what you are and where you are but act as like 
you have plenty of choices when indeed you have NONE. You are not any less 
ARROGANT than the Pale Moon devs. I think it can only be MORE than them.

Accept that you are LOSER, and do your best to get back to your place, it's 
what SANE people do.

INSANE people talk very much about discipline, 'quality standard', bla bla... 
but indeed can deliver nothing! Proving wrong very easy, give me a preview of 
your Firefox! But I know, you can't.


 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:00:16 +0700 Volker A. Brandt  wrote 


 > > All of your so called 'quality standard' are just pure BS. 
 > > 
 > >  > Buf if you really want to act like a boss and have Pale Moon on OI as 
 > >  > your wish, consider DM-ing me? I think I can arrange that for you -- if 
 > >  > you pay me will enough, of course. 
 > >  > 
 > > 
 > > I don't want to be boss. The fact is I suffered from such people on my 
 > > real life. 
 > > 
 > > But frankly speaking, your team needs more people like that. At least they 
 > > are SANE. 
 >  
 > With your superior intellect, and your sharp powers of observation, in a 
 > matter of days, you have identified many of the problems the incompetent 
 > and insane OI devs have failed to fix for years. 
 >  
 > Congratulations! 
 >  
 > So which one are you going to start working on first? 
 >  
 >  
 > Regards -- Volker 
 > -- 
 >  
 > Volker A. BrandtConsulting and Support for Solaris-based Systems 
 > Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ 
 > Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANYEmail: v...@bb-c.de 
 > Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46 
 > Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt 
 >  
 > "When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead" 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:34:42 +0700 Araragi Hokuto 
 wrote 

 > The word "job" has different meaning in different places to different 
 > people. And in this community, I believe it's normally interpreted as 
 > "shipping an OS which uphold to our quality standard", not "serving the 
 > need of any random person who come and yell at us". 
 
All of your so called 'quality standard' are just pure BS.

 > Buf if you really want to act like a boss and have Pale Moon on OI as 
 > your wish, consider DM-ing me? I think I can arrange that for you -- if 
 > you pay me will enough, of course. 
 >  
 
I don't want to be boss. The fact is I suffered from such people on my real 
life.

But frankly speaking, your team needs more people like that. At least they are 
SANE.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] This is for someone said we had desktop/wine for ages

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Yeah, I know. You are just missed my previous mails.
Someone can't keep track of the thread doesn't have the rights to teach other 
people how to behave. Remember this.

Let me repeat that content for you:

SFE has desktop/wine, but it's 1.9.x

Tribblix has Wine 4.0, up and running.

See the different?

And I don't enable the SFE repo on any of my system. Combining the OI's own 
repos, it just caused a mess.

Another thing you forgot, is your system was old and not updated, isn't you?

My OI is the latest updated, installed from the latest release.

See the different now?

And excuse me if the SFE repo has anything to do with OI at all? It's an 
external repo. How could it count?


 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:27:14 +0700 Udo Grabowski (IMK) 
 wrote 

 > On 14.01.21 03:02, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 >  > He just recall from his memory without any fact checks! 
 >  > 
 >  > Then others come in and 'agreed' with him, my very real concern being 
 > pissed off! 
 >  > 
 >  > 
 > http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/search.shtml?token=wine=Search 
 >  > 
 >  > 
 > http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster-encumbered/en/search.shtml?action=Search=wine=1
 >  
 >  
 > Below are two instances of older Opendindiana installations 
 > currently running here on more than 100 machines. 
 > It just happens it's currently not on the newest HIPSTER 
 > because the audio system changed: 
 >  
 > s11(~) uname -a 
 > SunOS imksuns11 5.11 oi_151a9 i86pc i386 i86pc 
 >  
 > s11(~) pkg list | fgrep -i wine 
 >  
 > desktop/wine (sfe-encumbered)  1.7.7-0.151.1.8 i-- 
 > --- 
 > th7(~):  uname -a 
 > SunOS imksunth7 5.11 illumos-cf25223258 i86pc i386 i86pc 
 >  
 > th7(~):  pkg list | fgrep -i wine 
 >  
 > desktop/wine (localhostoih)   1.9.10-0.0.151.1.8   i-- 
 > --- 
 > Just because *you* don't know, doesn't mean that it does 
 > not exist. STOP your rants, it's really enough ! 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Attitude again is the main 'concern'. Anything other than that is pure BS.

If it's my boss who in the team, what would he say? Should be something like 
that:

"I don't fucking care! Just give me a working browser!"

Or something like this:

"Just get it done and packaged, idiots! You have failed your Firefox promise 
for a long time and nothing assure you would ever got it. Get the fucking job 
done!"

He may be rude, but if he's really in the team, everything will be more SANE!

Don't be shocked! It's what I hear everyday and I'm almost converted into my 
boss's school of thought: be realistic and just get the job done, don't care 
about anything else.

 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:18:50 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > On 2021-01-13 17:47, Hung Nguyen Gia wrote: 
 > > It's all fallacies. You are a BSD guy, so you are very biased. 
 > > 
 > > The FOSS community in general just like that. They are all biased. They 
 > > judged 
 > > without any investigations. 
 > > 
 > > Let me tell you: how many CVEs our current outdated Firefox having now, 
 > > and 
 > > not 
 > > yet resolved but just being kept there for the sake of having a browser? 
 > > 
 > > Can you answer me? Pale Moon, at least, update their browser to fix CVEs 
 > > continuously. 
 > > 
 > > Which is safer? Which is more 'security'? Our outdated Firefox or Pale 
 > > Moon? 
 > > 
 > > It's hard to answer. The most honest is: they are 'same same'. 
 > > 
 > > Pissed of Pale Moon because of security concerns is just fallacies. 
 > > 
 > > The real reasons is, the Pale Moon people are  being HATRED, so does their 
 > > browser. 
 > To be clear. Nope. Don't hate 'em. I mentioned BSD, because that was my last 
 > attempt at porting Pale Moon. So yes. I have hands-on experience in the 
 > matter. 
 > I was too preoccupied with getting the job done, to have any extra time to 
 > spend 
 > on personal dramma. My comment regarding their "attitude" came straight from 
 > the PM developers forum. If you have 3rd party libs that you have no control 
 > of. 
 > It's a legitimate concern. As you *must* depend on "upstream'" schedule. 
 > If FF has the same problems, and can't adequately be cared for. It should be 
 > removed. Or be installed with a giant cautionary banner. 
 >  
 > Have a nice day. :-) 
 >  
 > --Chris 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >  On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 23:05:23 +0700 Chris  wrote 
 > >  
 > > 
 > >  > On 2021-01-12 04:56, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > >  > > De-obfuscation the situation: 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > The core of this problem is the branding issue. It's the legacy left 
 > > from 
 > >  > > Mozilla. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Pale Moon has granted atenian200 the rights to use their branding. 
 > > But 
 > > he 
 > >  > > has to 
 > >  > > follow their branding guide line, too. This mean: using the libraries 
 > >  > > shipped with 
 > >  > > Pale Moon itself. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > atenian200 want to add the Pale Moon package with OFFICIAL BRANDING 
 > > (since 
 > >  > > he was 
 > >  > > granted this rights from Pale Moon). 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > We refused because we don't want to use libraries shipped with Pale 
 > > Moon. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Personal issues of us with the Pale Moon issues. Combining the the 
 > > BSDs' bad 
 > >  > > experience: hater gonna hate. We rejected Pale Moon. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > The solution is very simple: 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > We build Pale Moon with official branding off, just these two lines: 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > ac_add_options --disable-official-branding 
 > >  > > export MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=0 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Check: http://developer.palemoon.org/build/sunos/ 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > We are free to do whatever we want now. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > But: making Pale Moon works with the system libraries is problematic. 
 > > It's 
 > >  > > technical issues, not personal preferences issues. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Then: just build Pale Moon with their own shipped libraries! 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > So, what's different? OFFICIAL BRANDING! Just that. 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > The key is: Just have Official branding disable. We could ship Pale 
 > > Moon 
 > >  > > with the 
 > >  > > encumbered r

[OpenIndiana-discuss] Asking for packages

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Where I could fine a place to do this? Thanks.

BTW, I will just put it here:

I asked for the MinGW-W64 cross compiler and the DJGPP cross compiler.

Getting them just straight forward because they are GCC after all.

But the build speed is too slow, I can't compile them myself.

So perhaps get them packaged and also benefit other users is the right thing to 
do?

You could get a glimpse about how to build MinGW-W64 on pkgsrc/cross/mingw-w64

About DJGPP, have a look at: https://github.com/andrewwutw/build-djgpp

It will just give you a glimpse. For actually got them building, I recall I 
have to do something more than that.

But I didn't record it, so this piece of information was lost when I detach the 
OI disk from the system because of the stupid BIOS.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] This is for someone said we had desktop/wine for ages

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Yeah, SFE, I typed SFW, sorry.

Anyway, like what I said, it's an very old version, Tribblix has a much newer.


 On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 09:14:44 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > Wine was provided by a third-party repository called SFE, but that was 
 > a few years ago. 
 > Probably OpenCSW had it as well. 
 > I guess that's what was referred to. 
 >  
 > On 1/14/21, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss 
 >  wrote: 
 > > He just recall from his memory without any fact checks! 
 > > 
 > > Then others come in and 'agreed' with him, my very real concern being 
 > > pissed 
 > > off! 
 > > 
 > > http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/search.shtml?token=wine=Search
 > >  
 > > 
 > > http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster-encumbered/en/search.shtml?action=Search=wine=1
 > >  
 > > 
 > > There is even people said just use LibreOffice. 
 > > 
 > > No, man. If the people I mentioned could use LibreOffice, they would 
 > > rather 
 > > just use it on Windows! 
 > > 
 > > Microsoft Office is still the de facto standard. 
 > > 
 > > We really really need Wine. Even a shaky version like of Tribblix is 
 > > better 
 > > than nothing. 
 > > 
 > > Just to be more clear, Tribblix has Wine 4.0, and as I recall sfw Wine is 
 > > just 1.9.5, if I'm not wrong. 
 > > 
 > > Otherwise, people will come in and post misleading info without even fact 
 > > check it! 
 > > 
 > > ___ 
 > > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > > 
 >  
 >  
 > -- 
 > --- 
 > Praise the Caffeine embeddings 
 >  
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 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] The shell performance is bad

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

On OpenIndiana, they bootstrapping of pkgsrc from source took exactly 8 mins on 
a VM with 4 cores 4 GB of RAM.

(exact value, not recall, I no longer run OI but I recorded it).

Oi FreeBSD, with the very same VM configuration, took only a bit more than 2 
mins!

What caused the huge different?

The output printed on the screen is also much much faster on FreeBSD than OI.

It seemed to be a problem with Illumos in general.

OmniOS took the same time, even though the output printed on the screen seemed 
to be a bit faster.

Is it the shell's problem? I guest it's very likely.

But it's the Bash shell all the way! On FreeBSD, I also use Bash.

Does this because stdio performance issue? For some reasons, the output 
printing speed on OI is just slower?

Or it is because on OI, pkgsrc has to use cwrapper to wrap the toolchain?

It must be used to have 64 bit abi bootstrap.

On FreeBSD, no --abi 64 has to be specified.

And what is wrappers? They are just shell scripts again. Now we back to the 
shell as the starting point.

I used to want to have a pkgsrc repo of myself just build for OI, so I don't 
have incompatibility problems like Joyent's, since they build on SmartOS.

I think it should be a VPS with 4 cpus and 8 GB of RAM, SSD space could be 
added more if needed.

But now I think it's unrealistic. Building for OI wasted 4x of the time than 
for FreeBSD. The cost will be 4x, too.

I appreciate anyone building packages for OI. Given how much love they have for 
the OS.

I would just cancel the build right away and switch to build something else if 
it's too slow.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] This is for someone said we had desktop/wine for ages

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

He just recall from his memory without any fact checks!

Then others come in and 'agreed' with him, my very real concern being pissed 
off!

http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/search.shtml?token=wine=Search

http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster-encumbered/en/search.shtml?action=Search=wine=1

There is even people said just use LibreOffice.

No, man. If the people I mentioned could use LibreOffice, they would rather 
just use it on Windows!

Microsoft Office is still the de facto standard.

We really really need Wine. Even a shaky version like of Tribblix is better 
than nothing.

Just to be more clear, Tribblix has Wine 4.0, and as I recall sfw Wine is just 
1.9.5, if I'm not wrong.

Otherwise, people will come in and post misleading info without even fact check 
it!

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

It's all fallacies. You are a BSD guy, so you are very biased.

The FOSS community in general just like that. They are all biased. They judged 
without any investigations.

Let me tell you: how many CVEs our current outdated Firefox having now, and not 
yet resolved but just being kept there for the sake of having a browser?

Can you answer me? Pale Moon, at least, update their browser to fix CVEs 
continuously.

Which is safer? Which is more 'security'? Our outdated Firefox or Pale Moon?

It's hard to answer. The most honest is: they are 'same same'.

Pissed of Pale Moon because of security concerns is just fallacies.

The real reasons is, the Pale Moon people are  being HATRED, so does their 
browser.


 On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 23:05:23 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > On 2021-01-12 04:56, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > > De-obfuscation the situation: 
 > > 
 > > The core of this problem is the branding issue. It's the legacy left from 
 > > Mozilla. 
 > > 
 > > Pale Moon has granted atenian200 the rights to use their branding. But he 
 > > has to 
 > > follow their branding guide line, too. This mean: using the libraries 
 > > shipped with 
 > > Pale Moon itself. 
 > > 
 > > atenian200 want to add the Pale Moon package with OFFICIAL BRANDING (since 
 > > he was 
 > > granted this rights from Pale Moon). 
 > > 
 > > We refused because we don't want to use libraries shipped with Pale Moon. 
 > > 
 > > Personal issues of us with the Pale Moon issues. Combining the the BSDs' 
 > > bad 
 > > experience: hater gonna hate. We rejected Pale Moon. 
 > > 
 > > The solution is very simple: 
 > > 
 > > We build Pale Moon with official branding off, just these two lines: 
 > > 
 > > ac_add_options --disable-official-branding 
 > > export MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=0 
 > > 
 > > Check: http://developer.palemoon.org/build/sunos/ 
 > > 
 > > We are free to do whatever we want now. 
 > > 
 > > But: making Pale Moon works with the system libraries is problematic. It's 
 > > technical issues, not personal preferences issues. 
 > > 
 > > Then: just build Pale Moon with their own shipped libraries! 
 > > 
 > > So, what's different? OFFICIAL BRANDING! Just that. 
 > > 
 > > The key is: Just have Official branding disable. We could ship Pale Moon 
 > > with the 
 > > encumbered repo. 
 > > 
 > > The only thing prevent us is: our own HATRED for the Pale Moon developers. 
 > > 
 > > Put this aside. Then we have a working browser! 
 > In my last attempt, it wasn't quite that simple. If you use the "official" 
 > libs. 
 > you run into potential conflicts with system libs. If that's not enough; 
 > you, 
 > as 
 > an OS distributor are responsible for your user' safety -- vulnerabilities 
 > found 
 > in the libs for which you have no control (you depend on upstream). Not 
 > usually 
 > an acceptable situation. This also means that if you *do* choose to depend 
 > upon 
 > them. You must rebuild once they've been fixed. Also not ideal. 
 > > 
 > > Pale Moon will not replace Firefox or installed by default. We just give 
 > > the 
 > > users 
 > > another option when we are currently stuck with porting Firefox. 
 > > 
 > > But nothing stops Pale Moon from continuing on the encumbered repo even 
 > > after we 
 > > have Firefox ported. 
 > > 
 > > It's all depends on what we choose to do. 
 > > 
 > > Just my 2 cents. 
 > > 
 >  
 > -- 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Stupid BIOS

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I have did all of did. No success.

I know them well since my Windows 7 days. Windows 7 also has many problems with 
UEFI.

Someone rebuilt Windows 7 image using boot technology from Windows 10, it used 
to work well but will break any OSes installed on the same machine.

I get off Windows 7 and go for Q4OS, very XP like Linux, for a while, before 
finally enter MX.


 On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 23:11:58 +0700 Chris  wrote 

 > On 2021-01-12 05:01, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > > My BIOS only likes Windows and Linux. 
 > > 
 > > While on Linux, I could update to new kernel version, regenerate 
 > > initramfs, 
 > > update-grub,... no problems. 
 > > 
 > > On OI, if I changed /etc/system or there was an system update which 
 > > requires 
 > > regeneration of the boot image, after reboot, the system stopped booting. 
 > > 
 > > Everything I could see is a blank screen with A2 in the bottom right 
 > > corner 
 > > of the screen. 
 > > 
 > > The only solution is unplug all of the disks on the system and boot again. 
 > > It will 
 > > print 99 or 9C error code. 
 > > 
 > > Attach a live usb stick of MX Linux and tried to boot again. It could boot 
 > > now. 
 > > 
 > > After this fine boot, I could reattach the disks and booted only ONCE into 
 > > OI. The 
 > > next time the above steps have to be repeated. 
 > > 
 > > Between those steps, reset button doesn't work. The only thing work is a 
 > > full 
 > > power off (unplug the cable). It's the only way to turn off the system and 
 > > try to 
 > > boot again. 
 > > 
 > > Too tired. I removed the OI disk from the system. 
 > > 
 > > After a successful boot into MX Linux, with a update-grub command, the 
 > > system now 
 > > boot fine without any problems. 
 > > 
 > > The same trouble also happened with BSDs, not just OI. 
 > > 
 > > Secure Boot is always turned off. 
 > > 
 > > I'm out of ideas other than just say goodbye. 
 > A stab in the dark here. But does your BIOS have/offer a 
 > (legacy) CSM? You might also try to change the order of 
 > the attempts: 
 >  
 > legacy 
 > (u)efi 
 >  
 > or reversed 
 >  
 > (u)efi 
 > lagacy 
 >  
 > Just thought I'd mention it in case it helps. :-) 
 > > 
 > > Perhaps I'm not being missed. 
 > > 
 > --Chris 
 >  
 > -- 
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Stupid BIOS

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

My BIOS only likes Windows and Linux.

While on Linux, I could update to new kernel version, regenerate initramfs, 
update-grub,... no problems.

On OI, if I changed /etc/system or there was an system update which requires 
regeneration of the boot image, after reboot, the system stopped booting.

Everything I could see is a blank screen with A2 in the bottom right corner of 
the screen.

The only solution is unplug all of the disks on the system and boot again. It 
will print 99 or 9C error code.

Attach a live usb stick of MX Linux and tried to boot again. It could boot now.

After this fine boot, I could reattach the disks and booted only ONCE into OI. 
The next time the above steps have to be repeated.

Between those steps, reset button doesn't work. The only thing work is a full 
power off (unplug the cable). It's the only way to turn off the system and try 
to boot again.

Too tired. I removed the OI disk from the system.

After a successful boot into MX Linux, with a update-grub command, the system 
now boot fine without any problems.

The same trouble also happened with BSDs, not just OI.

Secure Boot is always turned off.

I'm out of ideas other than just say goodbye.

Perhaps I'm not being missed.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Just get Pale Moon

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

De-obfuscation the situation:

The core of this problem is the branding issue. It's the legacy left from 
Mozilla.

Pale Moon has granted atenian200 the rights to use their branding. But he has 
to follow their branding guide line, too. This mean: using the libraries 
shipped with Pale Moon itself.

atenian200 want to add the Pale Moon package with OFFICIAL BRANDING (since he 
was granted this rights from Pale Moon).

We refused because we don't want to use libraries shipped with Pale Moon.

Personal issues of us with the Pale Moon issues. Combining the the BSDs' bad 
experience: hater gonna hate. We rejected Pale Moon.

The solution is very simple:

We build Pale Moon with official branding off, just these two lines:

ac_add_options --disable-official-branding
export MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=0

Check: http://developer.palemoon.org/build/sunos/

We are free to do whatever we want now.

But: making Pale Moon works with the system libraries is problematic. It's 
technical issues, not personal preferences issues.

Then: just build Pale Moon with their own shipped libraries!

So, what's different? OFFICIAL BRANDING! Just that.

The key is: Just have Official branding disable. We could ship Pale Moon with 
the encumbered repo.

The only thing prevent us is: our own HATRED for the Pale Moon developers.

Put this aside. Then we have a working browser!

Pale Moon will not replace Firefox or installed by default. We just give the 
users another option when we are currently stuck with porting Firefox.

But nothing stops Pale Moon from continuing on the encumbered repo even after 
we have Firefox ported.

It's all depends on what we choose to do.

Just my 2 cents.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Newer JDKs

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

We stuck with OpenJDK 8 u232.

pkgsrc has newer versions. But they have troubles with libdemangle. Installing 
sunpro package simply not enough to fix this.

Nothing strange. They are built on SmartOS. A very different environment than 
us.

Don't expect they run 100% fine.

OmniOS has never versions, too.

Tribblix, of course. P. Tribble seemed to be OpenJDK's maintainer for Illumos.

I don't ask much. Just get the latest version of OpenJDK 8 and OpenJDK 11 is 
enough.

Both are LTS. Maybe just pulling the patches from Tribblix?

I think the OmniOS guys did the same.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] WINE

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Tried to build WINE from sources on OI. Failed at the configure step.

Don't know how P. Tribble could have a working version of WINE on Tribblix.

Maybe Illumos is not always the same. Between the distros there are more 
different than between Linux distros.

Hope someday you guys could have WINE working.

I'm not going for gaming.

I'm about to find other possible usage for OI.

Microsoft Office w/o Windows.

Most of the time they would just use Linux, or FreeBSD for that.

But nothing forced that. The underlying OS doesn't matter.

We only need MS Office working fine.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When this misery end?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I don't want to reply this at all because I know we will stick with own 
opinions.

But, no, this is not just my definition. This is anyone's definition, Linux, 
BSDs,... all of them.


 On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 02:39:17 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 8:30 PM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss <
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote:
 > 
 > No, but this is your definition :)
 > 

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Fwd: Re: The last version of Eclipse and SWT for Solaris

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

 Forwarded message 
From: Peter Tribble 
To: "Hung Nguyen Gia"
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 21:44:15 +0700
Subject: Re: The last version of Eclipse and SWT for Solaris
 Forwarded message 


On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 3:19 PM Hung Nguyen Gia  
wrote:

http://archive.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/R-4.6.3-201703010400/is the 
last version of Eclipse and SWT have support for Solaris. After that, Solaris 
support was completely removed.



I tried to run some small apps with the last SWT 4.6.3 for Solaris 10 x86_64 
and luckily it worked without any problems.






Yes; I have OpenJFX running (sometimes), and that uses SWT 4.6.3.
 



But I didn't have much luck with Eclipse. The last Eclipse 4.6.3 for Solaris 10 
x86_64 failed to run on both OI and Tribblix (all variants).






Presumably current versions? Anyway, see below:

 



Sir, you are a Java developer. Maybe you could debug the problem?



Try to run it and you will see the error log.






Assuming you are getting the same error I do, edit eclipse.ini so that it says:

 -startup
plugins/org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.201.v20161025-1711.jar
--launcher.library
plugins/org.eclipse.equinox.launcher.gtk.solaris.x86_64_1.1.401.v20161122-1740
-showsplash
org.eclipse.platform
--launcher.defaultAction
openFile
--launcher.GTK_version
2
--launcher.appendVmargs
-vmargs
-Dosgi.requiredJavaVersion=1.8
-Xms256m
-Xmx1024m


The important thing is the

--launcher.GTK_version
2


lines. Otherwise, it tries to use both GTK2 and GTK3, gets confused,
and that appears to cause the crash.


-Peter
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When this misery end?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Too many people replied me. I can't answer each of them. This is an AIO answer 
of mine.

First: No, the kernel alone is not enough for you to be a 64 bit ready OS. You 
can only be a 64 bit ready OS when you are 64 bit only. 32 bit lib shipped with 
the system for compatibility is fine. It's what a typical multi-lib multi-arch 
system works. But all of the binaries, must be 64 bit only. The compiler, 
should or should not, be a multi-lib multi-target supported compiler, that 
allowing cross compile to the 32 bit target.

Do you think you really meet this definition?

Second: Enterprise OS and compatibility

Switching all of the binaries to be 64 bit only doesn't effect compatibility at 
all. Targeting 64 bit binaries doesn't effect compatibility at all. As long as 
you still support running 32 bit apps and ship with 32 bit lib to enable those 
apps to run. Unless, your apps have a hard requirement that some tools must be 
32 bit otherwise it will not work? I don't know anything like that exists.

Third: Create a package?

Got it. You have to use complicated scripts to mitigate Sun's bad decision in 
the past, when they are not transitioned completely to a 64 bit system. Or not 
yet? Sun had to stop before it has any chance. Oracle acquired it.

Now I know why you have too few apps. Software developers prefer the plain old 
./configure make make install you just said is the past. It plain and simple 
way allows them to have a glimpse if their software would build and run on your 
OS or not. Remember, you are not the primary platform. Nowadays, it's Linux. 
Requiring them to setup a whole system like a real OI developer just to be able 
to correctly compile their software? Forget it, your OS grey-listed. Not worth 
the effort!

The idea of setting up a whole system like that also ill formed. I think the 
FreeBSD Ports get it more correct. The software must be able to build and run 
fine on the porter's computer first. Only after that, he created a port (make 
files) and submit it to the project to get it build and ready to be installed 
for the users. You did the completely reverse thing.

Fourth: Sun's approach made more sense?

Nope. When everyone in the world switch to eat potatoes, if you continue to eat 
bread people will call you crazy. All of the other OSes, not mentioning Linux, 
the BSDs, all following Linux's convention, let alone it's a big if if Sun's 
approach really made any more sense at all.

But you have to keep it to keep compatibility. It's understandable, for an 
enterprise system.

But, you could change anything that doesn't break compatibility, don't you? 
Let's make the life of all of us more easier.

Fifth: I know the problem is ld incorrectly link my 64 bit objects with a 32 
bit crt. But how can I stop it from happening?

It's your linker's fault, not me. It could be a limitation, or even bug. I 
correctly have all of my objects being 64 bit, but it still incorrectly link 
them with a 32 bit crt.

Which flags I needed to specify? LD='ld -64' or LD='ld -m64'? Nope. Not work. 
Even hacked the meson.build file to add these 64 flags doesn't have any affects.

Why it's too complicated and annoying on your OS? On Linux, or the BSDs, I 
could simply doing everything the old way straight forward.

BTW, if the full oi-userland thingy is the only way to get everything 
correctly, I think I would give it a try. Not promise, though.

I was cut off from my friend's PC and now on my old 4 cores 8 GB RAM PC.

OpenIndiana eats resources like hell. Even when limiting the ZFS ARC Cache size.

Someone on this lists did said me to just dd my efi partition of OI on my 
external SSD to the USB stick? Well, this destroyed my friend's Windows 10 boot 
loader. Good job, Mr. Hacker. Good job.


 On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:45:35 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 6:55 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss < 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 >  
 > > Unlike other systems, Illumos is a weirded platform! You have a 64 bit OS 
 > > but the compiler by default will generate 32 bit binaries! The linker by 
 > > default link 32 bit binaries! This has caused endless of troubles for 
 > > people wanted to have their software working on your platform and the 
 > > porters wanted to port software to your platform! I have asked many 
 > > people, 
 > > apart from the reason you are being a minor platform ('outdated', 'dead 
 > > OS', 'too little market share',...) this insanity is the second reason why 
 > > they all afraid! 
 > > 
 >  
 > The reason is simple, historically the compiler and toolchain would default 
 > to the least common denominator. 
 >  
 > In this case there was not really a question of right or wrong but a matter 
 > of convention. 
 > Solaris defines an Instruction Set Architecture (ISA)  which may be 
 > supplemented with processor-specific extens

Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When this misery end?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Illumos is not 64 bit ready. This is why the compiler has to target 32 bit by 
default. All Illumos distros have this limitation.

Don't get me wrong, I have read that many parts of the OS itself remain to be 
32 bit, e.g: nscd, they are not yet 64 bit ready.

I pretty much agreed and appreciate the Unleashed OS initiative but sadly it 
was terminated: https://unleashed-os.org/

It is, IMHO, what Illumos should be.

But you are partially right, though. Nothing stop we from setup the compiler to 
provide 64 bit binaries by default but still keeps the -m32 target so we could 
build the not 64 bit ready parts of the OS, too. This, indeed, is what many 
Linux distros are doing now. We are really weirded, because we are a 64 bit OS 
but choose to 'cross compile' to 32 bit by default. It should be the otherwise 
around: a 64 bit OS which generates 64 bit binaries by default but offer to 
'cross compile' to 32 bit. But all of the Illumos distros did so, not only us. 
It's the general limitation of the platform.

Put all of this aside, I only want to know how to fix my current linking issue 
with libdazzle. I have no idea to workaround this 'Wrong ELF Class' issue.

This issue is a known problem: 
https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/wrong-elf-class-requires-consistent-compiler-flags-v2

It have haunted many developers and scared them from even attempt to make their 
software compile on Solaris/Illumos.

 On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:00:51 +0700 Bob Friesenhahn 
 wrote 

 > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 >  
 > > Unlike other systems, Illumos is a weirded platform! You have a 64 
 > > bit OS but the compiler by default will generate 32 bit binaries! 
 > > The linker by default link 32 bit binaries! This has caused endless 
 >  
 > This is not a feature of Illumos, rather it is a feature of the 
 > compiler delivered by the distribution. 
 >  
 > There are compilers targeting Illumos which produce 64-bit output by 
 > default. 
 >  
 > There is nothing actually wrong with 32-bit apps since they can 
 > safely address 2GB of memory, which is quite a lot.  The 64-bit ABI 
 > does provide more registers and instructions and improved calling 
 > convention so code may run faster. 
 >  
 > Bob 
 > -- 
 > Bob Friesenhahn 
 > bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ 
 > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ 
 > Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt 
 >  
 > ___ 
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 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] When this misery end?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

I appreciate your help. BTW, your link, has nothing to do with what I'm 
currently trying to do. Maybe it would be useful when I could have Epiphany 
compiled for me and started to get it packaged on OI.

What I do now is very simple: trying to build software from source. I'm not yet 
on the state of able to contribute it. I currently doesn't build.

I make one correction: none of Epiphany or libdazzle requires gcc-10. It was 
me, confused, and out of idea why it failed, tried to see if it would compile 
with the latest GCC version. It turns out it still fails to build on gcc-10, 
commenting out a compiler flag on meson.build did the trick. The current 
trouble is no longer compilation, but linking.

Not everything Sun did was right. This 'Wrong ELF Class' issue was haunted many 
people for a long long time. Doing a simple search with 'Solaris ld wrong elf 
class' will give you more than enough evidences.

From what I have read here: 
https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/wrong-elf-class-requires-consistent-compiler-flags-v2

Only the OI developers could handle the problem. I can do NOTHING other than 
waiting for them having an up and working libdazzle from the OI repo so I could 
just install it using pkg and continue with Epiphany.

Maybe we could have a look at Linux or FreeBSD to know how to design a proper 
multi-lib system?

We are not the only multi-lib system out there. Debian Linux and FreeBSD is an 
out of the box multi-lib system, but, they don't have such problem. I don't see 
any of their users whining about something similar than this one. Maybe we 
could learn something from them?

I know, we inherits the legacy from Solaris. We are currently stuck with the 
Solaris linker. Binaries produced by the GNU ld linker is incompatible. So I'm 
very patient and waiting for the help from the OI devs.

I hope someday Illumos in general, could get rid of Solaris compatibility and 
the Solaris linker, switching to a proper GNU ld linker like other systems. OI 
is such a small project so it can only waits for the big players to try first 
then upstream their changes to illumos-gate.

 On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 17:24:55 +0700 Andreas Wacknitz  
wrote 

 > Am 10.01.21 um 06:55 schrieb Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss:
 > > Unlike other systems, Illumos is a weirded platform! You have a 64 bit OS 
 > > but the compiler by default will generate 32 bit binaries! The linker by 
 > > default link 32 bit binaries! This has caused endless of troubles for 
 > > people wanted to have their software working on your platform and the 
 > > porters wanted to port software to your platform! I have asked many 
 > > people, apart from the reason you are being a minor platform ('outdated', 
 > > 'dead OS', 'too little market share',...) this insanity is the second 
 > > reason why they all afraid!
 > >
 > > When would we could be as normal as other 64 bit system, when people no 
 > > longer have to pass CC='gcc -m64' CXX='g++ -m64' before any configure 
 > > scripts with a very high rate of failure just to have 64 bit binaries 
 > > generated, I wonder?
 > >
 > > ___
 > > openindiana-discuss mailing list
 > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
 > Hi,
 > 
 > you have already been told that you should read
 > http://docs.openindiana.org/dev/userland/
 > and make use of what is already available. You don't need to start from
 > scratch but can use
 > what Sun has originally created, and Oracle for Solaris 11 and the OI
 > team for OpenIndiana enhanced.
 > You seem to want to take a shortpath but that won't work. Building
 > software like epiphany is complex
 > on any OS. libdazzle is just a step on your path of a working epiphany
 > browser on OI and I guess it's
 > one of the more simpler ones. We should do that in a team.
 > I have prepared a package description of libdazzle for OI Hipster.
 > I am reluctant to add the new library to our repository as it doesn't
 > have a consumer in our userland yet
 > and I am not sure whether we will need it in the future (eg. if we don't
 > agree on adding epiphany in the future).
 > 
 > Furthermore, as it depends on gcc-10 ant its runtime we should
 > coordinate this with Aurélien work on
 > changing the default compiler for oi-userland to gcc-10. We should
 > discuss how to proceed.
 > 
 > If you want it I can send you the sources I generated (based on the
 > solaris-userland files). Our build
 > system has diverted from Oracle's a bit so some changes have been necessary.
 > 
 > Regards,
 > Andreas
 > 
 > 
 > 
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 > https://openi

[OpenIndiana-discuss] When this misery end?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Unlike other systems, Illumos is a weirded platform! You have a 64 bit OS but 
the compiler by default will generate 32 bit binaries! The linker by default 
link 32 bit binaries! This has caused endless of troubles for people wanted to 
have their software working on your platform and the porters wanted to port 
software to your platform! I have asked many people, apart from the reason you 
are being a minor platform ('outdated', 'dead OS', 'too little market 
share',...) this insanity is the second reason why they all afraid!

When would we could be as normal as other 64 bit system, when people no longer 
have to pass CC='gcc -m64' CXX='g++ -m64' before any configure scripts with a 
very high rate of failure just to have 64 bit binaries generated, I wonder?

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Qt5 republished

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

As an old ghost from the past I will haunt you again, too.

Remember I have asked you on illumos.org/issues to package qtwebkit, too, so we 
could have the Otter Browser and SMPlayer/SMTube, which use qtwebkit, available 
on OI?

This time I asked for it again. But if you are annoyed please let me know, I 
will stop asking, I don't want to make anyone feels bad.


 On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 19:51:03 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > Hi,
 > Cristian reported that some of the libraries provided by the qt5 package
 > were not updated correctly:
 > 
 > https://www.illumos.org/issues/13439
 > 
 > The package has been republished and this is now fixed.
 > 
 > Aurélien
 > 
 > -- 
 > ---
 > Praise the Caffeine embeddings
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] How to remaster the OpenIndiana's usb/iso image?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

My friend has a very powerful computer with 32 cores (including hyper 
threading) and 64 GB of RAM. My computer only has 4 cores and 8 GB of RAM. He 
rarely uses it, though. Most of the time he's outside to filming. He only uses 
it a bit on weekend to do the rendering job. I'm allowed to use this computer. 
The only requirement is I'm not allowed to touch the hard disk.

So I workaround this by using Live USB Stick. They could serve the same role as 
an installed system. First, I use MX Snapshot to dump the MX Linux I'm using on 
my computer to an ISO image then I use MX Live USB Maker to create the Live USB 
Stick. This live system already has everything I needed, all of the 
applications and my settings are there. VirtualBox even usable in this form. I 
attach an external SSD and use it to store my VM images. The live system 
doesn't need to be fast, so an USB stick is enough, but the VM images need to 
be on a fast device to help performance. With this setup, I used VirtualBox to 
setup OpenIndiana VM to build Pale Moon from source myself so I always have the 
latest version of it and I even have resources left to tinkering with another 
OI VM and watching youtube's 4K videos in the mean while on the MX Linux host. 
Building Pale Moon on my own machine is very slow but it's blazing fast on this 
system.

Almost forgot, for some unknown reasons, maybe because of a buggy UEFI 
firmware, the external SSD is unable to boot. Only USB sticks are allowed to 
boot.

Yes, my setup is a bit weirded. Maybe it doesn't fit with OI at all. But I 
really hope someday I could use OI in place of MX Linux for this job.

 On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 19:48:49 +0700 Till Wegmueller  
wrote 

 > We use distro constructor to build our images. But It's definitely not 
 > easy to use. 
 >  
 > BTW what do you want to accomplish? It sounds like that you try to make 
 > OI confine to a workflow that you are used to which does not exist here. 
 > Have you tried using exising workflows from OI first to get yourself 
 > familiar? 
 >  
 > Do you need a system to compile things and throw awaY? Have a look into 
 > zones and vagrant. We even have scripts in oi-userland to use zones for 
 > clean builds. And officially supported vagrant images. including a 
 > vagrantfile in oi-userland so you can just type "vagrant up" in the repo 
 > root and it gets you a complete environment to compile and package 
 > software. No need to reinvent the wheel here. 
 >  
 > -Till 
 >  
 > On 09.01.21 08:03, Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss wrote: 
 > > On MX Linux, we have the technology to doing so. It's very straight 
 > > forward using graphical tools. 
 > > 
 > > Let me describe what I wanted to do. For example, the OI live system 
 > > doesn't have the compiler tool chain installed. I want to make a usb/iso 
 > > image of OI with the build-essential package installed. How could I do it? 
 > > 
 > > I imagined the procedure could be: 
 > > 
 > > Install OI into disk. Update the system and install the build-essential 
 > > package. Then using rsync to sync the running system into a directory. 
 > > Extract the OI usb/iso image. After that, using lofiadm to make a .zlib 
 > > image of that directory to replace the .zlib image on the OI usb/iso 
 > > image. Then using appropriate tools to rebuild the OI usb/iso image. 
 > > 
 > > Would that work? Thanks. 
 > > 
 > > p/s: It's much better if OI has the graphical tools to help doing it like 
 > > MX Linux does, though. 
 > > 
 > > ___ 
 > > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > > 
 >  
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Will OpenIndiana switch to SquashFS?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

 On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 19:42:25 +0700 Till Wegmueller  
wrote 

 > Hi 
 >  
 > You don't need a writable root filesystem. Especially on a live 
 > environment. SmartOS for exmple is a "Live" environment in that sense 
 > but it's rootfs is completelty read-only so nobodies changes get lost. 
 > IMHO aufs on top of a live system is more of a easy way to brick your 
 > system rather than a help. You want to update the live system with apt 
 > and then boot a new one? You are going to be in a whole lot of trouble then. 
  >  
 > -Till 
 > 

No. This is impossible even with Linux. The writable root file system is only 
during the working session, after reboot or power off it's lost. Unless you 
setup it to use persistent. Linux is capable of using persistent file. But I 
don't think OpenIndiana is able to do so. Persistent is also painfully slow if 
you are using an USB 2.0 stick like me. So I don't use persistent.

A writable root file system sometimes very useful. You could do many useful 
things with the live system as it's an already installed system if you have 
plenty of RAM and when you reboot or power off, without a persistent everything 
will be reset to it original state.

BTW, I think we should stop our discussion here, since I'm already have all of 
the information I need. Thank you all.

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to dump a snapshot of the running system into iso image?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

It's not like a ZFS snapshot. What I'm describing is something can be archived 
with the MX Snapshot tool of MX Linux: https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-snapshot

It's also some kind of remastering the system. MX Linux has many sophisticated 
tools to deal with this problem. I think Linux in the general is a long way 
ahead of OpenIndiana regarding the live system technology.

The MX Snapshot tool: https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-snapshot

The MX Remaster CC tool: https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-remastercc

The MX Live USB Maker tool: https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-live-usb-maker

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[OpenIndiana-discuss] How to remaster the OpenIndiana's usb/iso image?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

On MX Linux, we have the technology to doing so. It's very straight forward 
using graphical tools.

Let me describe what I wanted to do. For example, the OI live system doesn't 
have the compiler tool chain installed. I want to make a usb/iso image of OI 
with the build-essential package installed. How could I do it?

I imagined the procedure could be:

Install OI into disk. Update the system and install the build-essential 
package. Then using rsync to sync the running system into a directory. Extract 
the OI usb/iso image. After that, using lofiadm to make a .zlib image of that 
directory to replace the .zlib image on the OI usb/iso image. Then using 
appropriate tools to rebuild the OI usb/iso image.

Would that work? Thanks.

p/s: It's much better if OI has the graphical tools to help doing it like MX 
Linux does, though.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Will OpenIndiana switch to SquashFS?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Thanks for your clarification. But you didn't answer the second part of my 
question. Hope someone will address it.

I do have another question. Everyone of us knows that a read-only root file 
system is not enough for a live system. There always a need for some 
overlayfs/unionfs/aufs to have a writable root file system. So what is the 
technology used on OI? Thanks.


 On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 16:41:18 +0700 Peter Tribble  
wrote 

 > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 6:37 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss < 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: 
 >  
 > > Most Linux distributions now employing SquashFS for their live system so 
 > > they are blazing fast even though being run from a slow USB 2.0 stick. I'm 
 > > posting this mail on one of such live system. I found OpenIndiana is using 
 > > another technology: 
 > > https://ptribble.blogspot.com/2012/10/those-strange-zlib-files.html 
 > > 
 > > Does this technology comparable to SquashFS? And if SquashFS is better, is 
 > > there any plan to switch to SquashFS? 
 > > 
 >  
 > The illumos distributions have alway used a compressed filesystem for the 
 > live image. 
 > There's no difference to squashfs in that respect - we're just normally 
 > compressing the 
 > whole image. There's no benefit to changing to a different scheme that's 
 > essentially 
 > identical. 
 >  
 > We do actually have a direct equivalent to squashfs already - dcfs. I've 
 > not seen it used 
 > much, although it was used on SPARC to compress the files in the boot 
 > archive. (On x86, 
 > the bootloader can read a compressed boot archive, so you don't need it 
 > there.) 
 >  
 > -- 
 > -Peter Tribble 
 > http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ 
 > ___ 
 > openindiana-discuss mailing list 
 > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss 
 > 


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[OpenIndiana-discuss] Will OpenIndiana switch to SquashFS?

[Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss]

Most Linux distributions now employing SquashFS for their live system so they 
are blazing fast even though being run from a slow USB 2.0 stick. I'm posting 
this mail on one of such live system. I found OpenIndiana is using another 
technology: https://ptribble.blogspot.com/2012/10/those-strange-zlib-files.html

Does this technology comparable to SquashFS? And if SquashFS is better, is 
there any plan to switch to SquashFS?

I found when I dd-ed the .usb image into my usb, it only fills a small extent 
of my storage space. How could I extend it to fit to all of my storage space? 
Could I make a partition from the unused space to store data?

Linux is too good at being a live system. The MX Live USB Creator handled all 
of this for me. I'm posting from a live MX Linux system. Nowadays, finding a 
live system not being a Linux distro is hard. So I really appreciate 
OpenIndiana.

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