Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
To your p.s i think the code she submitted was more of a example of how its done not a patch as she is not a coder nor submitted the code as a official patch. Also you should note that most people are ignorant of LLs need to be able to push code back into a closed source and assume that GPL / opensource means LL can use it. Which actually would be a valid thought if ll's source was gpl on its own versions. I on the other have have a CLA signed. Hence why i said i would willingly re implement not port or copy. A version of my own doing and optimization. I think the major issue boils down to the feature is a major thing for sim owners. I think the disconnection between the populace and LL is apparent in this request as the residents see it as a critical feature and ll sees it in a different view. But this list is not one to argue philosophy nor semantics. The code in question on the approach to how its done is not a bad one IMHO. Yes server side could probably implement it better but none of the non LL on this list have access to such things and must make do with what we are given. From continued use its not apparent to be laggy actually but I could be mistaken. I strongly suggest this data (the end result) be includes as its value to your residents is quite critical. Dim. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Kelly Linden ke...@lindenlab.com wrote: There are multiple issues at play here: What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force build the data being requested. Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased responsibility. Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could have been quicker to expose better tools to them. Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features we feel deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end. These features almost always benefit from both viewer and server development. It is also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related functionality together so we can better prioritize the features and bugs that effect the Land product against each other. So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone, and kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do a more thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to prioritize this feature request against the many other feature requests for the Land product. - Kelly P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors agreement or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am guessing it is extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't create into the jira. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.comwrote: Just to iterate that it does work. [22:22] Counting scripts. Please wait. [22:22] Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5 Works for any object. The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts which is a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer scripts in object. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c miss_c...@yahoo.com wrote: It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers. I attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same exact files in each viewer that does this NOW. Did you even read my Jira?? I worked so hard to supply every bit of information. Unless you have allowed all these other viewers access to the server code, I think there has been a mistake, could you please reread my Jira. TY Miss -- *From:* Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com *To:* Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson es...@lindenlab.com *Cc:* miss c miss_c...@yahoo.com; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com *Sent:* Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request Actually no its a viewer feature...
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
The issue is all these crappy old obsolete resizers and texture changers. How about a different approach? Step one is complete. Some of us have worked and posted for free various versions of the fast resizers in one script. So there is no excuse for anyone to continue building new content using the obsolete versions. Step 2 would be to do the same for texture changers which is a different animal. Step 3 would be an official public awareness campaign to get creators on board. Step 4 might be some sort of program to get people to trade in their old script abusing shoes and hair on new versions that are not abusive. Step 5 might be to just kill the old abusive scripts when detected. Then LL can begin working on the other popular items notorious for infringing on others rights to a stable sim they are paying tier in. All this time an effort is going into mesh to get people to be aware of vertice counts. How about a similar effort around script resource abuse? Then you don't have to sandbag regions to get to a tool for estate owners to eject what they feel are script abusers. From: Kelly Linden ke...@lindenlab.com To: Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:55:57 AM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request There are multiple issues at play here: What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force build the data being requested. Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased responsibility. Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could have been quicker to expose better tools to them. Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features we feel deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end. These features almost always benefit from both viewer and server development. It is also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related functionality together so we can better prioritize the features and bugs that effect the Land product against each other. So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone, and kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do a more thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to prioritize this feature request against the many other feature requests for the Land product. - Kelly P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors agreement or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am guessing it is extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't create into the jira. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com wrote: Just to iterate that it does work. [22:22] Counting scripts. Please wait. [22:22] Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5 Works for any object. The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts which is a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer scripts in object. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c miss_c...@yahoo.com wrote: It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers. I attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same exact files in each viewer that does this NOW. Did you even read my Jira?? I worked so hard to supply every bit of information. Unless you have allowed all these other viewers access to the server code, I think there has been a mistake, could you please reread my Jira. TY Miss From: Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com To: Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson es...@lindenlab.com Cc: miss c miss_c...@yahoo.com; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request Actually no its a viewer feature...
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
SNIP~P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors agreement or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am guessing it is extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't create into the jira. SNIP~kelly linden commented on VWR-23200: It would be helpful to get more specifics on exactly what information is desired. I have not used many TPVs so it isn't immediately apparent what feature set you are requesting. Am I correct to guess that you are asking for a list of avatars and how many scripts each avatar has on them? I was trying to give you the examples you specifically asked for. You already have this code as it is in your agreement to be TPVD approve you must give the code over and have it opensourced. I have been very excited over the viewer code base and all the improvements that you guys have made, because of the lack of sim tools this is a very needed function. Sending my Jira to the Land team almost seems like certain death because they haven't added any useful tools in the 4 years I have been here in SL. I have to have this feature and that's why I pushed it, I want to migrate over to 2.0 completely, but it looks like I cant now. I would rather deal with unrezzed textures, lack of media, lack of all the new fun features, than not be able to manage my sim and this is MY number one tool to do it with. The resizing scripts kill SL, we are talking thousands upon thousands, upon thousands, just think how it is with 50 people in a sim. I spend so much time chasing these scripts, several times a day, these scripts bring my sim to its knees. The script counter is my only weapon against it. Guess no mesh or streaming media for me, back to Phoenix. Anne: Ever so often I too send out pleas for designers to stop using these, they wont, they say its the customers responsibility to remove them, not their problem. From: Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:52:53 AM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request The issue is all these crappy old obsolete resizers and texture changers. How about a different approach? Step one is complete. Some of us have worked and posted for free various versions of the fast resizers in one script. So there is no excuse for anyone to continue building new content using the obsolete versions. Step 2 would be to do the same for texture changers which is a different animal. Step 3 would be an official public awareness campaign to get creators on board. Step 4 might be some sort of program to get people to trade in their old script abusing shoes and hair on new versions that are not abusive. Step 5 might be to just kill the old abusive scripts when detected. Then LL can begin working on the other popular items notorious for infringing on others rights to a stable sim they are paying tier in. All this time an effort is going into mesh to get people to be aware of vertice counts. How about a similar effort around script resource abuse? Then you don't have to sandbag regions to get to a tool for estate owners to eject what they feel are script abusers. From: Kelly Linden ke...@lindenlab.com To: Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:55:57 AM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request There are multiple issues at play here: What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force build the data being requested. Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased responsibility. Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could have been quicker to expose better tools to them. Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features we feel deserve to
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
I'm probably gonna get roasted here, but I actually agree with the decision to move it to the land team, even with the understanding that these tools might not be as fast to be complimented as they would be with a purely viewer approach. here's my reasons: 1) If changing the server code means it can be done with less stress on the sim, that means sim resources can be better allocated for a smoother functioning sim. 2) by making it a combination of viewer AND simulator code, they open up the possibility of adding in additional tools that are based of these or work in conjunction with these with less work later on. 3) This opens up the possibility of script monitoring and replacement later on to do exactly what Ann is talking about with objects which are no modify and whose creators no longer support their products, no longer have the old versions to base new versions off of, have left SL, or have died. 4) Might inspire additional tools that we haven't thought of. I honestly think kicking this to the land team would be a good idea as long as they understand that they need to put some priority on this. That said, it might be wise to clone the issue back to vwr simply so a public one is available to access and where progress can be tracked by the community. Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:52:53 -0700 From: missannoto...@yahoo.com To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request The issue is all these crappy old obsolete resizers and texture changers. How about a different approach? Step one is complete. Some of us have worked and posted for free various versions of the fast resizers in one script. So there is no excuse for anyone to continue building new content using the obsolete versions. Step 2 would be to do the same for texture changers which is a different animal. Step 3 would be an official public awareness campaign to get creators on board. Step 4 might be some sort of program to get people to trade in their old script abusing shoes and hair on new versions that are not abusive. Step 5 might be to just kill the old abusive scripts when detected. Then LL can begin working on the other popular items notorious for infringing on others rights to a stable sim they are paying tier in. All this time an effort is going into mesh to get people to be aware of vertice counts. How about a similar effort around script resource abuse? Then you don't have to sandbag regions to get to a tool for estate owners to eject what they feel are script abusers. From: Kelly Linden ke...@lindenlab.com To: Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:55:57 AM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request There are multiple issues at play here: What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force build the data being requested. Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased responsibility. Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could have been quicker to expose better tools to them. Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features we feel deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end. These features almost always benefit from both viewer and server development. It is also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related functionality together so we can better prioritize the features and bugs that effect the Land product against each other. So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone, and kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do a more thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to prioritize this feature request against the many other feature requests for the Land product. - Kelly P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors agreement or what
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
On 27 September 2010 23:22, Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com wrote: I think the major issue boils down to the feature is a major thing for sim owners. I think the disconnection between the populace and LL is apparent in this request as the residents see it as a critical feature and ll sees it in a different view. But this list is not one to argue philosophy nor semantics. This thread is all of 17 hours old. It's premature to say that somehow we're already going against the wishes of our resident base when we haven't even had time to explore the many options here, let alone prioritise them. The code in question on the approach to how its done is not a bad one IMHO. Yes server side could probably implement it better but none of the non LL on this list have access to such things and must make do with what we are given. From continued use its not apparent to be laggy actually but I could be mistaken. In which case, we should consider that before we rush to an implementation which may end up worsening the problem that land owners need fixed. It's in everyone's interest to provide something like this. Reducing lag is a key part of the Fast, Easy, Fun initiative. Giving land owners better tools to deal with sim load is a great way to divide-and-conquer on the many causes of lag, not to mention making our highest-paying customers happier. But if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right, and the Land team needs time to design and prioritise it properly. -- Yoz ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Am Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 10:09:07 schrieb Ann Otoole: I give you an image of what thousands of people are wearing and dozens more buy daily for less than L$200: http://annotoole.com/images/nuclearshoes.png (not my product btw) 11456kb each shoe? seriously? So 20 avatars in a club with these uses 458MB of region memory? Yes. A public awareness campaign is sorely needed. for that it needs to be known what shoe that is, who makes it, and the link to the SLU and blogorums post that makes the public actually aware... i mean, checking with the script floater AFTER you bought the shoes isn't going to make that creator aware of what shit he/she sells by reducing their sales. therefor: name shame and blame please. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com wrote: this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like this. It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over scripted shoes. If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as well. Better for LL to step up first. I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations, proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them, is unacceptable. No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story. I just wish everyone was aware of how much resources they take, and that means having the right tools for it. The upcoming script limits project were aimed at doing that, but I guess it is suspended for the moment. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Sorry for top quoting... There Are already a lot if monoscript based on a single script for whole item, but lazyness of creator is high and is more easy say is a LL fault the lag, But this is about OT here. ;) -- Sent by iPhone Il giorno 28/set/2010, alle ore 11:27, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com wrote: this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like this. It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over scripted shoes. If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as well. Better for LL to step up first. I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations, proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them, is unacceptable. No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story. I just wish everyone was aware of how much resources they take, and that means having the right tools for it. The upcoming script limits project were aimed at doing that, but I guess it is suspended for the moment. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Simple thing for snapshots?
On 2010-09-27, at 13:21, Daniel Smith wrote: I have long thought we should be able to apply tags to inventory items (I even talked with P about this in 2006..) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1406 This suggestion was only restricted to prims in an effort to reduce the ZOMG WASTE responses. The more general the better. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Am Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 11:27:22 schrieb Marine Kelley: On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com wrote: this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like this. It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over scripted shoes. If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as well. Better for LL to step up first. I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations, proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them, is unacceptable. No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story. could that by any chance be one of the reasons why that shop strictly refuses to make demo versions available... so that people could check the script load on those shoes before they buy? bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Could be... I have not set foot there for almost a year now. lol On 28 September 2010 12:44, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.dewrote: Am Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 11:27:22 schrieb Marine Kelley: On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com wrote: this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like this. It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over scripted shoes. If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as well. Better for LL to step up first. I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations, proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them, is unacceptable. No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story. could that by any chance be one of the reasons why that shop strictly refuses to make demo versions available... so that people could check the script load on those shoes before they buy? bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Agreed, Yoz, it's definitely worth doing right and while it may be possible to get some stats with a viewer-based solution it makes sense that this should fall to the land team. Trilo On Sep 28, 2010, at 1:57 AM, Yoz Grahame wrote: On 27 September 2010 23:22, Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com wrote: I think the major issue boils down to the feature is a major thing for sim owners. I think the disconnection between the populace and LL is apparent in this request as the residents see it as a critical feature and ll sees it in a different view. But this list is not one to argue philosophy nor semantics. This thread is all of 17 hours old. It's premature to say that somehow we're already going against the wishes of our resident base when we haven't even had time to explore the many options here, let alone prioritise them. The code in question on the approach to how its done is not a bad one IMHO. Yes server side could probably implement it better but none of the non LL on this list have access to such things and must make do with what we are given. From continued use its not apparent to be laggy actually but I could be mistaken. In which case, we should consider that before we rush to an implementation which may end up worsening the problem that land owners need fixed. It's in everyone's interest to provide something like this. Reducing lag is a key part of the Fast, Easy, Fun initiative. Giving land owners better tools to deal with sim load is a great way to divide-and-conquer on the many causes of lag, not to mention making our highest-paying customers happier. But if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right, and the Land team needs time to design and prioritise it properly. -- Yoz ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Need Help Testing STORM-255
As I do not have a 'build farm' like @ LL maybe one of the other OS devs that build on mac could help you out with with that Trilo. From: Trilo Byte [mailto:trilobyte5...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:27 AM To: WolfPup Lowenhar Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Need Help Testing STORM-255 If you've got a link to a compiled build for Mac, I'll be happy to install and give it a test. Cheers TriloByte Zanzibar On Sep 27, 2010, at 7:06 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar wrote: Ok folk I need some help Testing the change set posted in: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-255 I'm testing it on Windows 7 32 bit. I need others to test it on other operating systems in both 32 and 64 environments. Please post to the jira the OS your testing it on. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3163 - Release Date: 09/27/10 13:56:00 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] USER STORY (was script count feature request)
USER STORY As an OWNER, I'd like to be able to ban certain objects, or to disable scripts in any object in my parcel/sim/estate. Further more, when a resident cannot enter my parcel/sim/estate because of an object or a script they are wearing or sitting on, they get an informative message, such as Owner does not permit you to enter until you disable those damn shoe scripts! 8-) As for the discussion of viewer vs land, I remind people to not let the prefect kill the good. Do the quick fix viewer side, and then let the server side folks implement the right solution later. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Hello, everyone. We've had a good first few weeks of the Snowstorm team. It took a little longer than we'd hoped, but we have launched the Viewer 2 Beta for version 2.2.0, and we're continuing to move forward (new beta very soon). Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Both of them have worked on my team for a long time now, and I consider them both friends as well as colleagues. Please join me in thanking them and wishing them the best in the future. They will be missed. Cheers to both, Q ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Thanks Tofu Aimee... and where is Jack based now? --Tammy Nowotny Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: Hello, everyone. We've had a good first few weeks of the Snowstorm team. It took a little longer than we'd hoped, but we have launched the Viewer 2 Beta for version 2.2.0, and we're continuing to move forward (new beta very soon). Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Both of them have worked on my team for a long time now, and I consider them both friends as well as colleagues. Please join me in thanking them and wishing them the best in the future. They will be missed. Cheers to both, Q ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Thank you Aimee and Tofu. Your departure is a great loss for LL and Second Life as a whole. Latif On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) q...@lindenlab.com wrote: Hello, everyone. We've had a good first few weeks of the Snowstorm team. It took a little longer than we'd hoped, but we have launched the Viewer 2 Beta for version 2.2.0, and we're continuing to move forward (new beta very soon). Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Both of them have worked on my team for a long time now, and I consider them both friends as well as colleagues. Please join me in thanking them and wishing them the best in the future. They will be missed. Cheers to both, Q ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Best wishes to Tofu and Aimee for the future. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
I'm said to hear Tofu and Aimee a no longer going to be here as Linden's I do hope they will still be around to help though even if it is only as members of the open source community, under slightly different names. -Original Message- From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Kent Quirk (Q Linden) Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 2:33 PM To: opensource-dev Subject: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes Hello, everyone. We've had a good first few weeks of the Snowstorm team. It took a little longer than we'd hoped, but we have launched the Viewer 2 Beta for version 2.2.0, and we're continuing to move forward (new beta very soon). Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Both of them have worked on my team for a long time now, and I consider them both friends as well as colleagues. Please join me in thanking them and wishing them the best in the future. They will be missed. Cheers to both, Q ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3164 - Release Date: 09/28/10 02:34:00 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
What surprises me is that 'people who made much of the success possible' are 'leaving'? Is this a pattern? I really cannot imagine the kind of pressure you LLs are working under, I mean what kind of workplace is LL?? R On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Ponzu lee.po...@gmail.com wrote: Best wishes to Tofu and Aimee for the future. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.' *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333 Blog http://deepsemaphore.posterous.com/, LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll , Play2Train http://www.play2train.org ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
They aren't leaving by choice. LL fired all the UK based lindens. I won't go into saying how stupid a decision it was. But I do wish tofu and Aimee the best of luck, and I hope they find really good jobs soon. Take care Aimee and Tofu, godspeed, and please feel free to friend one or more of my alts so you can stay in touch :) cummere mayo Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:31:35 -0600 From: moriz.gu...@gmail.com To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes What surprises me is that 'people who made much of the success possible' are 'leaving'? Is this a pattern? I really cannot imagine the kind of pressure you LLs are working under, I mean what kind of workplace is LL?? R On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Ponzu lee.po...@gmail.com wrote: Best wishes to Tofu and Aimee for the future. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.' Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333 Blog, LinkedIn, Play2Train ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Best wishes Tofu and Aimee, if you survived LL you can survive anything. So you'll be ok ! It's sad to see two good devs leave though. On 28 September 2010 21:45, Erin Mallory angel_of_crim...@hotmail.comwrote: They aren't leaving by choice. LL fired all the UK based lindens. I won't go into saying how stupid a decision it was. But I do wish tofu and Aimee the best of luck, and I hope they find really good jobs soon. Take care Aimee and Tofu, godspeed, and please feel free to friend one or more of my alts so you can stay in touch :) cummere mayo -- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:31:35 -0600 From: moriz.gu...@gmail.com To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes What surprises me is that 'people who made much of the success possible' are 'leaving'? Is this a pattern? I really cannot imagine the kind of pressure you LLs are working under, I mean what kind of workplace is LL?? R On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Ponzu lee.po...@gmail.com wrote: Best wishes to Tofu and Aimee for the future. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.' *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333 Blog http://deepsemaphore.posterous.com/, LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll , Play2Train http://www.play2train.org ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-DevPlease read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes (more Lindens fired)
Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Shakes head. This is pathetic. One wonders when they were told. What should be foremost for the Snowstorm project is to give the developer community a sense of belonging, of a team, and to have ample reason to spend their cycles contributing here. .. Because, after all, there are a variety of venues where a talented dev can contribute to the viewer. LL is not the only game in town, and that is a good thing. In my mind, this is another in a series of roadblocks to success. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of.. well, I can speak for me.. I wont speak for the community. Another big roadblock is Oz... the guy was only at LL for 3 months before announcing no 1.x UI at SLCC. Why is someone with next to no SL experience in such a key role, determining much of the outcome of the viewer? He has next to no history - the community does. It is Tofu and Aimee that should be allowed to work remotely, and it is Oz that should be in a role where his heavy handedness does not become a roadblock to success. The trends are very clear to me. The 1.x and 2.x codebases cannot compete with something like Unity (in 2 years, they would still not be close to where a potential Unity 2.6 foundation would be, if started today). A 3.x codebase with full plugin support from day 1 might have a chance. All roads are leading to OpenSim + Unity client. Tofu and Aimee, thanks for your adept efforts. You will be missed. Daniel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes (more Lindens fired)
Aimee Tofu - the information you've shared is only matched by your great attitudes! i know i've sensed only a small part of the awesome work y'all have been doing - i totally agree with all the others that you will be missed. Best wishes for everything!! - AK ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Tofu and Aimee, I haven't been as closed to the Snowstorm efforts as others, but I've observed the results of your focus and hard work. Best of luck in wherever you end up working. Best, - JB On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) q...@lindenlab.comwrote: Hello, everyone. We've had a good first few weeks of the Snowstorm team. It took a little longer than we'd hoped, but we have launched the Viewer 2 Beta for version 2.2.0, and we're continuing to move forward (new beta very soon). Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Both of them have worked on my team for a long time now, and I consider them both friends as well as colleagues. Please join me in thanking them and wishing them the best in the future. They will be missed. Cheers to both, Q ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Hey People! Please excuse me while i say something for all the n00bs in the world, whether their inexperience is their fault or not, and without judging anyone's learning speed, patience, or whatever else those with criticize the others who are without for lacking. Maybe i'm just challenged myself, but i haven't found anything, anywhere that comes even close to being a one stop resource for builders, scripters, land owners, etc. Even the user guide stuff could use better organization and a more engaging presentation. It's not like a bunch of us don't have the skills needed to put together a totally killer instruction manual for SecondLife like the one you don't get (but really ought to) for FL (First Life). It's the time, charter, all the other stuff you have to have to eat pay tier for in all your lives that gets in the way of doing what i guess too many people don't value enough to hire someone to do a good job of. It's pretty sad, too, because i think there's easily enough active SL premium residents that 10 cents a month from each of them would fund an awesome project, maybe even with some revenue opportunities for LL. What i mean is sometthing like a book that's a website (best with continually updated information) that does the A to Z thing for all the builder scripter tasks with regular resident landowner sections to go with it. Not just recipes, but recipes with explanations. A lot of the material needed to start a project like that has already been written, it just needs to be all put all together and organized better. The next step could be to get together a list of all the things people build and script for a comprehensive set of tutorials that covered everything from t-shirts and shoes to complete avatars, vehicles, weapons, shopping malls, and applications for all those advanced features that curious people screw everyone else up with while they experiment. The finished product would have to include a complete set of sample textures, scripts, animations, etc., along with usage tips for at least all the common RL tools, like Photoshop, Blender, Qavimator, and so on. Links to other websites like Adobe,Cinemacchiato Machinima and all that are great for support, but something that has a unified Look Feel has to happen first. If people already aren't using the material functionality available, that says the stuff hasn't been made attractive enough, or easy enough to understand, or obviously useful enough for them to be unable to stop themselves from taking advantage of the help instruction. The point is, if we want people to behave and do things right, it's not all that productive to just expect them to figure it all out for themselves, especially when there's so much bad info going around - some of it produced by people with social adjustment issues and plain malicious intent. And, it's kinda rude to tell someone to take their whatever and go hang out in another sim without trying to help them learn how to do better. Not having enough understanding just creates resentment and more unhelpful behavior. Sorry about the long message. - AK On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] My latest build, objects on self are back in Mouselook
On 9/28/2010 20:41, Ponzu wrote: Just reporting. Not a big deal. Wasn't this fixed? Actually, I sort of like it. My hair hangs over my eyes, and I am looking out thru my glasses, just like real life 8-) I've not seen a fixed daily build - makes using aimed weaponry or piloting a mouselook-steered vehicle nigh impossible. As far as I can tell this one has persisted in all viewers since 2.1 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] My latest build, objects on self are back in Mouselook
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yup, jiras on both since then too. I'm surprised it wasn't listed as a known issue on the beta. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/ECC-2 https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/ECC-3 On 9/28/2010 6:45 PM, Dave Booth wrote: On 9/28/2010 20:41, Ponzu wrote: Just reporting. Not a big deal. Wasn't this fixed? Actually, I sort of like it. My hair hangs over my eyes, and I am looking out thru my glasses, just like real life 8-) I've not seen a fixed daily build - makes using aimed weaponry or piloting a mouselook-steered vehicle nigh impossible. As far as I can tell this one has persisted in all viewers since 2.1 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMop1vAAoJEIdLfPRu7qE2NbAIAKmVmXeDjxdxmdUnu+4wGYV1 XgNoCIL8ItXEbr0YprPdfJJ1X9K8sJBXpKXS2cd77mVUpoWZFI3LWicGBFKDdeOQ +AfqcB8bbR98PwRU4IMiYphyxN5CVk4BnaxJl1h22DUDgyMB6S5zGwUb/bJnvAso V2Py9YC/uBUsq0unHPfQSKV40LYThZrPblqe7hyCixWspXKYdnuP6Vrwq9bCrhLv BRyOLvJXfIfjZhrHTDKzb6EJz7OvkP32sbd795j4eKmYytYOIpuBSRAuySi3faiS Hv0vM5vftBrLfFhDCgA8si+wjxvhd7+zXzubqvppVxNVoiWoLrr/3uzfb/Zbfn0= =snEB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Need Help Testing STORM-255
Worked on my iMac...Added comment to Jira On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:06 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar wolfpu...@earthlink.netwrote: Ok folk I need some help Testing the change set posted in: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-255 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
