Re: [opensource-dev] V2.X & V1.X support on the same machine

[mysticaldemina]

I guess it is time to unsubscribe from this group. I don't have time to read
the constant flow of emails like this.

-Original Message-
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Dzonatas
Sol
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:43 PM
To: Dzonatas Sol; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com; Philip Rosedale
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] V2.X & V1.X support on the same machine

Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> They've had an adult grid that is suppose to be fast, easy,... and fun.
>
> They've had an teen grid that is suppose to be ... easy... fast... clean?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> ___  Life
>

I believe I found a solution.

The svn code should be for only "kids"... even people who decide to make 
their avatars like "kids"... so a split code base "right there" where 
the more known "adult" possibility can be found in the hg repository.

I think that provides several options to get LL out of its corner.

We know there is confusion between "shared" code base and "split" code 
base... yet we understand this.

It's the same feel... they need to earn it to grow up... but its got to 
be their choice to know what they lost. Some have already taken that 
choice...

.. they just haven't quite... you know.

-- "."  [Fixt.]





-- 
--- https://twitter.com/Dzonatas_Sol ---
Web Development, Software Engineering, Virtual Reality, Consultant

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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[mysticaldemina]

I have to say, making new users a top priority was one of the most
disappointing things I have heard LL say.  Usually paying customers get top
priority.  What about people that have been with them for years and
supported them.  What about all these designers that sweat hours to make
products.  I think this gets to the core of V2, most of us weren't asking
for a new viewer, we were asking for many other things.  And when I see
press releases that say how V2 will be the new state of the art viewer and
we get something that shows such little understanding of the communities
needs, it shows that this is not a technical problem, but something much
deeper in how LL develops products.

So much of the user interface, V1.23 as well, makes designing take much
longer than it should.  Like having to rezz objects to edit their contents.
Ever have to rezz hundreds of boxes to update something? Or correct the
permissions.  Have to rezz a box to get to its contents I think is one of
the most difficult things for new people.  Having to rezz objects to get to
stuff, then copy to inventory, then find it in inventory, etc.  All this
time on making a new viewer could have been used to make inventory better.

I think the whole conversation on V1.23 UI compared to V2 UI I find totally
sad.  Architecturally it seems to me the goal should be a UI layer that can
be implemented many different ways because with this many people one viewer
is not the solution for everyone.  I personally see at least 4 UI
implementations that are needed, 1) web based light weight.  2) Mobile,
maybe no 3D.  3. Typical user.  4. Power user or designer.  Most other
companies are able to do this from one code base.  Additionally I can see
some other tools that could exist for developers, script debuggers, terrain
editors, offline clothes editors, lots of stuff.  Trying to make power users
and designers use the same edit tools that new users use I think will limit
your content creation.  

On a side note, I often have to logged out of SL because it is consuming to
much resources on my computer, but I would prefer to stay logged in to
support my customers and be involved in the groups I am in.  Why can't I
have an option to turn off rendering?  Maybe it exist and I don't know it?

What also gets left out of all these conversations is why I have to go to an
external open source community, and thank god they exist, to use a network
layer.  Why doesn't LL take this layer more seriously and have supported
network layer, developer API's etc. to write bots and other applications
that can use the SL platform.  As much as bots get a bad name there are real
applications that need them.

What about a scripting language on the client side so I can create commands
to reduce repetitive things?

So I really have to ask myself has anything really changed.  And I would
have to say from what I have seen so far I don't hear anything that really
helps me be creating content faster, cheaper, better.








-Original Message-
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Corrimal
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:25 AM
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

On Tuesday 17 August 2010 00:39:53 Mike Monkowski wrote:
> Bryon Ruxton wrote:
> > I think addressing the hurdles that prevent people still on 1.23 to
> > move to 2.0 before you get into
> > 
> >  "Rapid, effective deployment of new features and functionality." is the
> > 
> > most urgent priority in my opinion.
> 
> Seconded.

Thirded.
The "Top Priority" should NOT be getting new users (while it of course
should 
be high on the list), but it should be keeping the old, established users
from 
leaving in disgust... you know, the ones that are already spending money,
own 
sims, have a Second Life. How many big shops / brands have closed lately
with 
statements like "I dont like SL anymore"...?


Here's my personal "Like/Dislike" list about 2.x, with my own personal 
suggestions for improvements or what to port from 1.x:

Like: the general feel of the new UI and the more streamlined menu
Dislike: The color scheme (makes a lot of stuff hard to read);
Suggestion: port the color scheme from 1.x (old one, not the lightblue one),

or maybe the orageisch scheme from the starlight skin

Dislike: the sidebar, and all that comes with it
(Strong) Suggestion: make all UI elements that are not part of the menu, the

toolbar or the chat bar non-modal dialogs where possible, modal dialogs only

where necessary.

Dislike: the fact that a lot of textures for profiles and such have changed 
size, forcing people to redo their profiles and "About Land", breaking them 
for 1.23 users by doing so
Suggestion: get the old sizes back (see http://is.gd/elgvO)

(Totally) Dislike: The way the profile shows first life and second life tab
at 
the same time. If I wanted to flaunt my RL I would be on facebook

Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[mysticaldemina]

Gosh, couldn't we have simple meshes instead of display names?  C#
scripting, shared libraries, there are 100 features I think I could list
that are to me are more important than this.  Slim client back so I can talk
to people when I can't be logged into the full client.


-Original Message-
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of malachi
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:46 PM
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

I understand this is all coming about to make it easier for people. Fine  
and dandy there. But isn't this just limiting the overall number of users  
that will be allowed to create accounts? I mean there are only so many  
combinations of characters that could be created with the last name  
Resident. I think if you are worried about residents walking away from the  
registration page because of a 'limited' list of last names, perhaps the  
official second life page could be a bit more like the regapi's that are  
out there. like it used to be in the good old days. when one could just  
select their last name from the entire list of last names, and not from a  
randomized pick of 12. just my 2 cents sorry to bother anyone.

malachi


On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:04:19 -0400, Kelly Linden   
wrote:

> You will be Andromeda Quonset across all viewers and all scripts. All
> existing scripts and new scripts using the existing functions will  
> continue
> to get Andromeda Quonset. You will *never* be Andromeda Resident (unless  
> you
> make another account after the change takes effect). Andromeda Resident
> would be a completely separate account from Andromeda Quonset, just as
> Andromeda Omega would be today. 'Resident' is just the final last name,  
> and
> is treated specially on new viewers to be hidden from view when  
> displayed.
>
> Your account will NOT change to Andromeda Resident. It will NOT change to
> Andromeda.Quonset Resident. Resident will not be tacked onto the end of  
> any
> existing avatar's name.
>
> All existing script library calls will forever more continue to return  
> the
> 'full name'. Existing lists of avatars will continue to match their list  
> of
> avatars. There will be some potential confusion for new residents who  
> will
> identify as "John12345" or "John Smith" but not "John12345 Resident".
>
> There will be entirely new LSL function calls to handle display names.
>
>  - Kelly
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Andromeda Quonset <
> andromedaquon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Indeed.  Wasn't there an issue in recent weeks/month with regard to the
>> forum software and the case of the first letter of a name?
>>
>>
>> At 04:23 PM 8/17/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> The fact that people have lower case first names isn't always a typo, in
>> many cases it is intended.  Please do not force capitalization on names.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Bryon Ruxton  wrote:
>>  As you are implementing this, you may to consider forcing  
>> capitalization
>> via
>> JavaScript or else on the first name (from the official actual username)
>> e.g. "first Linden" look bad as if there is a typo in there and such  
>> proper
>> nouns are normally capitalized.
>>
>> I have always found it annoying to see lowercase first names. It is
>> probably
>> mostly a result of omissions, but also tends to happen more frequently  
>> with
>> younger users. And as we "officially" will get 16 and 17 years old it is
>> much more likely to happen.
>>
>> It happens a lot in shopping carts or any web user database if you don't
>> automatically capitalize first and last names or addresses by code,  
>> which I
>> now tend to do to prevent such inconsistence in postage labels, etc...
>> It would make for a more consistent database too.
>>
>> On 8/17/10 2:41 PM, "Brian McGroarty"  wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Lance Corrimal
>> > < lance.corri...@eregion.de> wrote:
>> >> ...
>> >>  
>> http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2010/08/17/display-
>> >> names-bringing-greater-self-expression-to-second-life
>> >>
>> >> ... I guess that means the end for logging in with 1.x based viewers,
>> >> does it?
>> >
>> > Old viewers will continue to work. Old accounts would continue to log
>> > in as they do today. New accounts log in with their username as their
>> > first name and "Resident" as the last name. (For the difference
>> > between username and Display Name, see the FAQ linked at the end of
>> > the blog post).
>> >
>> > Under the hood, for all legacy viewers and scripts, the only real
>> > change is that new accounts created after some point will only ever
>> > have "Resident" as a last name. The new Display Names won't replace
>> > usernames in any location within an old viewer.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>  http://wiki.secondli

Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[mysticaldemina]

Seems like twitter has a pretty good solution.  Display names are unique.
And your login account isn't public so you have better security.  Default
your display name to your current SL name.  After that people can request
the name they want.  As far as scripts, chat, everything else, that use your
text version of your name, they all change on other systems and we get by.

 

Mystical

 

  _  

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Smith
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:53 PM
To: Baloo Uriza; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

 

 

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:

> I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:
>
> What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
> displayname?

I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything, this
brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many people might
have the same name.





Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?  Based on the feedback here and
on the blog, so many people are upset about this very question that the
Lindens will pretty much have to address the issue.  The documentation trail
on this is a mile long.  If they do nothing, situations will occur that will
end up in court.  Bet on it.

4 year SL'er, Daniel

-- 
Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California
http://daniel.org/resume

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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[mysticaldemina]

I guess I am sure.

Username is unique, you have to request it.  No two people will have the
same user name.  Sure people can fake it, but no two people will have the
same one at the same time.  And it is possible one person will use a name
for a while then someone else will use that name.  With all the email
regarding this not sure I am following what will be done but I suggest we
assign our current SL name to the username and after that let people request
a new one if it isn't being used.

My name is available and can be changed any time, it is not unique.  It is
informational.

My email is used to log into my twitter account and is not shared publicly
which I think is a more secure way to do things because it is harder for
people to figure out how I log into the account.  In SL we tell everyone
what your account name is.

Sure people fake things, so thanks for the feedback but not sure what your
point is.  Seems SL could do a name verification process like Twitter.

I think the main thing about twitter is I have never been confused between
username and display name.

This seems similar to the needs of SL, so was just sharing I thought it has
worked well.

M.




-Original Message-
From: Opensource Obscure [mailto:o...@autistici.org] 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 4:23 AM
To: mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com
Cc: Daniel Smith; Baloo Uriza; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?


On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:08:07 -0400,  wrote:

> Seems like twitter has a pretty good solution.  Display names are

unique.

> And your login account isn't public so you have better security.



Are you sure? As far as I know, things are quite different:



- login account (that Twitter calls "Username") is public



- in my case, Username = "oobscure"

- full name (properly "Name") in my case is "Opensource Obscure"

- in your case, Name = Username = "MysticalDemina"



- other people publicly use my Username to "mention" me ("@oobscure")

- Twitter website and 3rd party apps show these names in various ways

- you can change both Username and Name in any moment

- by changing your Username, your Twitter URL changes too



Twitter fake personalities indeed exist and that's why Twitter

also implemented the "Verified name" thing, that implies 

an identity verification process.



Opensource Obscure

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Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...

[mysticaldemina]

I don't think anyone disagrees with.  The problem is you can't get a
homestead unless you have a full sim already and so you need to rent from
someone and this puts you dependent on someone else which is frustrating for
people.  So to log in one day and see all your hard work returned to your
lost and found isn't a pleasant experience and seems SL if they are serious
about the user experience would have some better ways to handle this.

 

I don't know if you rent from someone else if you can do a restore of your
region to the new location.  But seems like there are ways to make this
better if not just let people rent homesteads which to me I believe would be
a huge market.

 

Anyway this whole subject is off topic for this mailing list and probably
should be on the SL forums.

 

M.

 

 

  _  

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Joel Foner
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:49 AM
To: Aleric Inglewood
Cc: opensource-dev
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's
customers...

 


After being a paying customer for more than a year, renting a homestead,
and thus paying Linden Lab ~ USD$ 1000 or so ... they just take the sim
offline, with no opening to even discuss the matter.

Why? Because of something I did? No. The reason is that Linden
Lab isn't interested in the "little people". Unless you have a FULL
sim of USD$ 300 per month, you don't count. 

 

There is a simple answer for this. You are the customer of your landlord in
this case, not Linden Lab. Yes, you have a Second Life account, but you are
not renting your land from Linden Lab. You are renting your land from
another avatar in Second Life. Linden Lab is not a party to your decision to
rent... so why are they accountable if some other avatar bails out and
decides to "level their city block"? If the landlord decided to stop
renting, boot everyone off and re-terraform the region for some completely
different use, would you think Linden Lab would have any responsibility for
stopping that or somehow compensating you? It's the landlord's land, and
they can do anything with it they choose to, including shut it down, leave,
take it over from the renters, or shut it down and let no one else in at
all.

 

Joel

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Re: [opensource-dev] Blocking viewers.

[mysticaldemina]

Its an illusion OpenSim is cheaper if you look at total cost of ownership
and include all time related to managing it.

Seems this is the wrong mailing list for this.  Please take it to the forums
or your blog.

M.

-Original Message-
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Carlo Wood
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:53 PM
To: malachi
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com; Anders Arnholm
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Blocking viewers.

This is not a bad idea at all, except that LL is here for
the money so they will refuse it. But opensim might use the idea.

You just have to adjust a bit ;).

Instead of having people pay for a server 24/7, you could
allow them to pay for a certain period of the day (many
would find 2 hours per day enough). Then the same machine
that would host their sim could be used for other sims
during the other 22 hours. I'm sure that with that method
it should be possible to cut the price of sims to 25%.

But then again, Linden Lab is about to screw us all already
in this regard by going to limit the resources of every (private)
sim to the tiny share that one would have when the sim is fully
loaded. So, that means that you can only use those resources
that otherwise would have been available if the sim was loaded to
the max 24/7 (which is clearly isn't the case on 99.9% of the sims).
As a direct result the same hardware can be used for more sims
at the same time while you still pay the same (using virtual
hosting). The price SHOULD be cut to 10%, so in effect it's the
same idea, but now with all financial benefit exclusively for LL.

On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 09:28:06AM -0400, malachi wrote:
> or we could do what that one episode of the outer limits called stasis  
> where they take and split the population of the world into 3 groups.  
> alphas betas and elites. then every 72 hours the alphas and betas switch  
> on a cryogenic freeze. half the population sleep while the other half run

> about working and what not. and the elite stay away all the time. Lindens

> are the elite i suppose. now if we can just get the system to let only  
> half of the people log in for 3 days. and the other half stay offline. and

> alternate. we would experience much less lag i think lol

-- 
Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] The Plan for Snowglobe

[mysticaldemina]

I think it goes further than that.  The trick to making it simple is to make
it so intuitive that the user knows instinctively what to do.  This
basically means creating things that we are already familiar with.  It is
not intuitive to navigate, need a navigation HUD that is so obvious you know
what to do.  The use of inventory is not intuitive and you have to figure
out how to wear stuff, how to take stuff off.  What I am even wearing.  I
can't preview easy.  Just as an example should be a changing room or
something.  How do I know I can do animations, how do I see which ones do
what?  The user interface is using a 2D solution that hasn't evolved in 20
years.  Not intuitive to know where to go.  Maps, other things need to be
more familiar.  The grid map is so uninteresting and not intuitive.
Showcase and search are not clear.

 

This whole problem of new user experience is more than viewer 1, or viewer
2, it has to do with the whole concept of how users understand what they see
and relate that to what they know.  Nothing about this interface, except the
actual 3D space is familiar in anyway.  I think this is why I find the
viewer 2 UI so disappointing; it brought nothing new to the table on how to
do user-interfaces.

 

A few things that could help is making the user interface more active,
meaning objects that can do something show they can do something when the
mouse if over them.  A Tool tips area on the screen that gives you
information about the object your mouse is over some where on the screen.
Option for descriptive menus that explain option, or short menus.   Wizards
that tell you what step you are on.

 

People say it isn't a game, but many games have made significant progress in
user interface design, I don't see any of this being implemented.

 

All I have heard about viewer 2 UI is it solved some of the technical issues
to maintain the complexity of the UI.  I haven't really heard how it solves
the use cases of the user or content designer.  User wears clothes.  User
navigates.  User puts new object in world, User creates and object.  User
finds an object in their inventory.  User wants to find something to do.

 

Few other notes, is it is stressful to learn something new, need to reward
the user.  Give them something, make it fun.  Play videos that show them,
then they do it.  Don't know, but lots that can be done.

 

M.

 

 

  _  

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Patnad
Babii
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 12:18 PM
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] The Plan for Snowglobe

 

I agree with you Dilly, what i've found over time, is that alot of people
just prefer to skip reading, they like things visually and orally. 

 

I've found a tutorial by googling quickly
http://www.mmocrunch.com/2010/07/16/microvolts-releases-tutorial-video/, of
what i think would work best for SL's first exprience. Something built in
the viewer with animations and voice (or not) . 

 

I know they changed orientation island recently (in the last year) i think
it is a good step forward, but apparently it needs more. 

 

Its true that the MMO based tutorial seem to be the appropriate approach for
what SL is, the more guidance the better i would say and always allow people
to skip part of it (if they are ready, let them just go). 

 

I see the tutorial as some kind of a checklist, where you have the different
checkpoint, like Navigation, Inventory, Clothing, Purchasing and if they are
willing enought they could even try the building tutorial were they are
shown the first steps of building.

 

 

 

 

 

From: dilly dobbs   

Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 11:22 AM

To: Tateru Nino   

Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com 

Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] The Plan for Snowglobe

 

Ok if its not the interface that is the issue, then i have an other idea
also, after speaking to a lot of mmo players they are lost when it comes to
second life.  Why not have some "quests" to start the game for them.  For
instance learn to tp to this location to get clothes and put them on.  Make
it more like a game with a limited number of opening/learning the interface
'quests' so to speak.  There has to be some way to keep all of the sign ups.


 

I my self have tried to bring a lot of other mmo players into the grid and
there biggest humps is learning the interface and then finding something to
do. 

 

We have a very valuable mind trust in this group, we should be able to come
up with something to hook them so to speak. 

 

This would make it better for us all.

 

Just my opinion. 


I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by 

Douglas Adams 



On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Tateru Nino  wrote:

On 11/09/2010 11:33 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:
>On 09/11/2010 08:03 AM, Tateru Nino wrote:
>> On 11/09/2010 10:2

Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers

[mysticaldemina]

Alright, this is the most incorrect post I have ever seen so I would guess
you have used Unity for maybe a total of an one hour.

 

First of all you can use any network technology you like.  It does come with
a very basic P2P network, but you can use many game server that you like
included some that support fail over and fault tolerance configurations.  In
fact there are those using SL's server and rendering prims and sculpties in
Unity.

 

The scripting language can also use C# and supports a way more complete set
of functions then is available in SL.  This list is so long I don't know
where to start on functionality it supports that LSL doesn't support.

 

Not sure your point about FPS, it has Ambers Occlusion culling, beast
lighting and deferred lighting which lets it create FPS you can't do in SL
for the same amount of content.

 

So if you are going to comment on Unity please do your homework and don't
mislead people.

 

M.

 

 

 

  _  

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Brandon
Husbands
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:20 PM
To: Robert Exile In Paradise Murphey
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe
even official) SL Viewers

 

Unity is the biggest POS i have ever used 
Not well designed. IMHO. Its like trying to do SL in javascript.
Not literally but you know what i mean. 

It was never designed for a heavy network transport now multi player / mmo
style.

A FPS maybe but nothing on a grand scale.



On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey
 wrote:

On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 18:15 -0400, Glen Canaday wrote:
> That's why I suggested Ogre instead. I personally think it would be a
> better fit and more productive to look at. Others may have different
> opinions.

Well, I run Linux and agree that being shut out after
years of being supported would be suboptimal for me.

Running in a VM is an exercise that only a masochist can love
compared to an application natively supported.

Plus, a VM position forces people to purchase additional OSes
just to support one (or a handful) of apps, which add massive
overheard in additional administration. At-home-VM is a
temporary workaround, not a "platform strategy".
Remember - SL is supposed to be Fast, Easy, Fun... not an
enterprise-level support nightmare just to boot and run in
the first place.

Unity3D seems like a lot of "lose" to me: for the same amount
of effort to switch to that, re-base on something else that keeps
the same supported set of platforms or extends it without dropping
already supported platforms.

OGRE may be a great suggestion, especially in light of the RealXtend
folks having already broken a LOT of the ground of an "SL client
that uses OGRE rendering." Why re-reinvent their wheel?
Maybe talk to them about Naali and see what goes from there?

--
Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey
Promise her anything, but give her Exxon unleaded.



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Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers

[mysticaldemina]

Obviously these are subjective statements but I think your statements are
based on an incomplete understanding of the tool and probably limited
experience using it.  

 

Not sure how you can say it is clunky.  I have a scene hierarchy where I can
list and see every object in my seen. It's like seeing every prim in my
region.  I can select any object and view it in the inspector.

 

Scripts are assigned to objects and not copied and duplicated into each
prim.  I can edit a script once and every object that uses it gets that
update.

 

In the inspector I can see every public value of the script and change its
value without having to actually edit the script.

 

I can use assets directly from my disk without having to upload them when
creating.  That is much faster than waiting for SL to do things.

 

Scripts can access to every bone in the skeleton system and I can override
animations to adjust the bones to a given scene's needs, for instance if two
avatars are a different height and I can adjust the bones to make their
hands connect so they can really walk hand in hand.

 

I can create keyed animations in Unity or use animations from other
programs.  Animates can throw events which can trigger code to do things.
>From scripts you can create and edit the animations and their key data.  You
can layer animations, set their weights.  You can sync the length of layers.
Cross fade animations.

 

You have materials like you do in Maya.

 

I can create custom shaders.

 

You can have spot lights, point lights and directional lights.

 

You can create your own skyboxes.

 

You can use water any where, not limited to just one plane with the water
shader.

 

I can use meshes.  Any object in the scene can have a skeleton.

 

I can edit meshes and vertices in real-time allowing me to create
parameterized content in real-time.

 

I can load assets from a URL or through websockets.

 

I can load textures from a URL or through websockets.

 

There is a profiler that lets me see in great detail what the engine is
doing.

 

I can use Visual Studio to develop my scripts with all the features of
Visual Studio.

 

I can run a debugger and debug the scripts and libraries I am using in the
scene.

 

I can do baked lighting including ambient occlusion inside the tool

 

I can do occlusion culling so I can have very large scenes.

 

I can control what assets are loading and stream the rest in the background.

 

I can use libraries of code.

 

>From one code base I can be published to many platforms including web and
mobile phone.  Linux is the big one they are missing a native support for.

 

Should I go on?

 

 

This is a group that is focused on Second Life client so not trying to
convince anyone to switch.  But I do think it is fair that people give
accurate information based on real experience and not guessing.  I think if
you understood the tool more you will see your statements are based on
inaccurate understanding of the tool. 

 

I personally do believe that the game development platforms will outpace
anyone doing proprietary client development and as such the days are quickly
approaching where you won't be able to justify the cost of developing your
own client rendering engines when you can get the features off the shelf for
$1200 that would cost you way more to do yourself.  I also believe you won't
stay up and will find yourself quickly falling behind.

 

M.

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: Brandon Husbands [mailto:xot...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 9:57 PM
To: mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com
Cc: Robert Exile In Paradise Murphey; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe
even official) SL Viewers

 

Actually its not inaccurate. The tools themselves are clunky.. And i am not
taking this as a lsl vs their language. I am talking about the engine
itself.  From a lower level perspective.  Unity is really more of a
middleware when it comes to graphics engines. sure you can use any network
you want but in a whole as what it offers as a base is not what would be
able to be used for something on the scale of sl. 

Also as a user you would not have those midddle ware tools that you see
unless you want the whole thing to be clunky.

Its rigging and control system is designed for rapid prototyping and higher
level designig.

I would put unity as an equivilant to making a mod for a fps with "good"
tools unlike most mod systems. 

But as a complete engine from a graphics and other standpoints The hero
engine blows that away. Actually there are quite a few game engines that
surpass unity. And if we take thoes its like compairing writing with QT vs
flash. (not quick time... but QT).

Flash is great as a packaged thing but its limited. Now unity can me
modified and such to some extent but no where whats needed for a SL type of
thing. 

And for the record I am not a fan boi of any engine or system. But i have
developed a mmo from the gro