Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
It's pretty much what the first draft should have looked like. Can't imagine what interfered with the process to get it in the state it was originally. On 25/04/2010 8:58 PM, Nexii Malthus wrote: > Definitely much more acceptable now. > > Thanks Joe > > - Nexii > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Thickbrick Sleaford > mailto:thickbrick.sleaf...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > On Tuesday 20 April 2010 17:02:26 Joe Linden wrote: > > Boy, > > > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, > believe me. This > > update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag > I'm hosting > > today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so > there would > > be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, > both of which > > are effective on 4/30. > > > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > > > > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > > > -- joe > > > > This is somewhat belated, but: Thank you Joe! > > The TPVp is still not ideal from my perspective, but it is now > certainly > something I think an open source community can work with. > > I still wish it would not force viewers to enforce DRM, > specifically in cases > where the user has an appropriate license from the creator that > supersedes the > DRM. But I guess this is pretty much a given when a user chooses > to create > their content in a grid that is very much DRM-centric. Hopefully > the DRM will > be extended soon to include an "export ok" flag, now that the TPVp > made it a > critical thing. > > Anyway, thanks for listening! > > -- > Thickbrick > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated > posting privileges > > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- Tateru Nino http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
Definitely much more acceptable now. Thanks Joe - Nexii On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Thickbrick Sleaford < thickbrick.sleaf...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday 20 April 2010 17:02:26 Joe Linden wrote: > > Boy, > > > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. > This > > update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting > > today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would > > be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of > which > > are effective on 4/30. > > > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > > > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > > > -- joe > > > > This is somewhat belated, but: Thank you Joe! > > The TPVp is still not ideal from my perspective, but it is now certainly > something I think an open source community can work with. > > I still wish it would not force viewers to enforce DRM, specifically in > cases > where the user has an appropriate license from the creator that supersedes > the > DRM. But I guess this is pretty much a given when a user chooses to create > their content in a grid that is very much DRM-centric. Hopefully the DRM > will > be extended soon to include an "export ok" flag, now that the TPVp made it > a > critical thing. > > Anyway, thanks for listening! > > -- > Thickbrick > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
On Tuesday 20 April 2010 17:02:26 Joe Linden wrote: > Boy, > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. This > update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting > today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would > be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of which > are effective on 4/30. > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > -- joe > This is somewhat belated, but: Thank you Joe! The TPVp is still not ideal from my perspective, but it is now certainly something I think an open source community can work with. I still wish it would not force viewers to enforce DRM, specifically in cases where the user has an appropriate license from the creator that supersedes the DRM. But I guess this is pretty much a given when a user chooses to create their content in a grid that is very much DRM-centric. Hopefully the DRM will be extended soon to include an "export ok" flag, now that the TPVp made it a critical thing. Anyway, thanks for listening! -- Thickbrick ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
On 04/20/2010 03:41 PM, Jonathan Irvin wrote: "4. You assume all risks, expenses, and defects of any Third-Party Viewers that you use. Linden Lab shall not be responsible or liable for any Third-Party Viewers." That sure sounds like what you all have been wanting. The risk is on the user, not so much the developer. That sounds to me like exactly the change people wanted in the first place. This also means I can dive into the viewer source. I spose I should be gettin' on it now... --GC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
"4. You assume all risks, expenses, and defects of any Third-Party Viewers that you use. Linden Lab shall not be responsible or liable for any Third-Party Viewers." That sure sounds like what you all have been wanting. The risk is on the user, not so much the developer. Jonathan Irvin Cell: +1-318-426-5253 Email: djfoxys...@gmail.com On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Martin wrote: > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Joe Linden wrote: > > Boy, > > > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. > This > > update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting > > today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would > be > > no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of which > are > > effective on 4/30. > > > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > > > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > > > -- joe > > > im going to try and make this meeting myself but could somebody please > make sure that all of the information is either done or relayed in > text > (and could somebody please get all of the voice stuff sorted before > the meeting so we don't spend half the meeting tripping over the > audio) > -- > Robert L Martin > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Joe Linden wrote: > Boy, > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. This > update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting > today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would be > no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of which are > effective on 4/30. > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > -- joe > im going to try and make this meeting myself but could somebody please make sure that all of the information is either done or relayed in text (and could somebody please get all of the voice stuff sorted before the meeting so we don't spend half the meeting tripping over the audio) -- Robert L Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
There have been numerous times since the new TOS came out that i've wanted to go inworld and have refused to do so for fear of liability under this policy. Thank you for fixing it, now I might be able to play with the new plugins API without fear. With those changes, this is a policy that personally I am much more comfortable accepting. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Joe Linden wrote: > Boy, > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. This > update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting > today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would be > no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of which are > effective on 4/30. > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > -- joe > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Boy Lane wrote: >> >> As this did not make it into the mailing list yet but is rather important, >> LL changed the TPV policy again, quiet, in the background. >> >> I don't know how this affects the legal validity of that document >> people agreed by clickwrapping since the new ToS popup, I just >> want to make you aware of that. >> >> Robin ran a diff and the actual changes can be found here: >> http://pastebin.com/Yd1j1EdE >> >> Major changes as I see them, the terms "...you develop and distribute" >> are gone, and one new paragraph was introduced. >> "Nothing in this Policy is intended to modify the terms of the GPL." >> >> Someone in LL seems to have woken up, but damage is done >> nevertheless. >> >> Boy >> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -- “Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
Thanks Joe, I was not aware that there is an ongoing discussion. Which would be 3am in the middle of the night for me anyway. But thumbs up for the initiative. Boy - Original Message - From: Joe Linden To: Boy Lane Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again) Boy, There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. This update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of which are effective on 4/30. I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 -- joe On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Boy Lane wrote: As this did not make it into the mailing list yet but is rather important, LL changed the TPV policy again, quiet, in the background. I don't know how this affects the legal validity of that document people agreed by clickwrapping since the new ToS popup, I just want to make you aware of that. Robin ran a diff and the actual changes can be found here: http://pastebin.com/Yd1j1EdE Major changes as I see them, the terms "...you develop and distribute" are gone, and one new paragraph was introduced. "Nothing in this Policy is intended to modify the terms of the GPL." Someone in LL seems to have woken up, but damage is done nevertheless. Boy ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
Agreed, this is a major improvement. Thanks, Joe. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Latif Khalifa wrote: > I second that Gigs, very positive changes indeed. > > My thanks to Joe for making this happen. > > Latif > > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Gigs wrote: > > These look like positive changes that address some of the concerns. > > > > Thank you for your efforts Joe. > > > > Joe Linden wrote: > >> Boy, > >> > >> There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. > >> This update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm > >> hosting today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so > >> there would be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, > >> both of which are effective on 4/30. > >> > >> I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > >> > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > >> > >> -- joe > >> > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
I second that Gigs, very positive changes indeed. My thanks to Joe for making this happen. Latif On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Gigs wrote: > These look like positive changes that address some of the concerns. > > Thank you for your efforts Joe. > > Joe Linden wrote: >> Boy, >> >> There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. >> This update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm >> hosting today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so >> there would be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, >> both of which are effective on 4/30. >> >> I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: >> http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 >> >> -- joe >> > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
These look like positive changes that address some of the concerns. Thank you for your efforts Joe. Joe Linden wrote: > Boy, > > There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. > This update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm > hosting today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so > there would be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, > both of which are effective on 4/30. > > I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: > http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 > > -- joe > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
Boy, There was nothing quiet, or "in the background" about it, believe me. This update is the topic of conversation at the noon PDT brown bag I'm hosting today. The changes were pushed live ahead of the meeting, so there would be no question they are incorporated in to the TPV and TOS, both of which are effective on 4/30. I'll see those of you still interested in the subject at noon here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 -- joe On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Boy Lane wrote: > As this did not make it into the mailing list yet but is rather important, > LL changed the TPV policy again, quiet, in the background. > > I don't know how this affects the legal validity of that document > people agreed by clickwrapping since the new ToS popup, I just > want to make you aware of that. > > Robin ran a diff and the actual changes can be found here: > http://pastebin.com/Yd1j1EdE > > Major changes as I see them, the terms "...you develop and distribute" > are gone, and one new paragraph was introduced. > "Nothing in this Policy is intended to modify the terms of the GPL." > > Someone in LL seems to have woken up, but damage is done > nevertheless. > > Boy > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
Interesting changes, worthy of some thoughtful consideration. Have to run this one back past the lawyers and see what they say. On 20/04/2010 11:45 PM, Boy Lane wrote: > As this did not make it into the mailing list yet but is rather important, > LL changed the TPV policy again, quiet, in the background. > > I don't know how this affects the legal validity of that document > people agreed by clickwrapping since the new ToS popup, I just > want to make you aware of that. > > Robin ran a diff and the actual changes can be found here: > http://pastebin.com/Yd1j1EdE > > Major changes as I see them, the terms "...you develop and distribute" > are gone, and one new paragraph was introduced. > "Nothing in this Policy is intended to modify the terms of the GPL." > > Someone in LL seems to have woken up, but damage is done > nevertheless. > > Boy > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges > > -- Tateru Nino http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Quiet amendments of TPV (again)
As this did not make it into the mailing list yet but is rather important, LL changed the TPV policy again, quiet, in the background. I don't know how this affects the legal validity of that document people agreed by clickwrapping since the new ToS popup, I just want to make you aware of that. Robin ran a diff and the actual changes can be found here: http://pastebin.com/Yd1j1EdE Major changes as I see them, the terms "...you develop and distribute" are gone, and one new paragraph was introduced. "Nothing in this Policy is intended to modify the terms of the GPL." Someone in LL seems to have woken up, but damage is done nevertheless. Boy ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
