Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Aleksandr Didenko]

Hi,

having or not having docker on Fuel master affects mostly Fuel node
deployment related scripts/manifests. If we need to fix a bug in Nailgun or
OSTF - we can fix it in their codebase and it does not really matter
whether we run Nailgin or OSTF inside docker or not. The same goes for all
the OpenStack deployment related manifests - fix will be the same in 9.0
without docker and in 8.0 with docker.
Removing docker may introduce a bunch of new bugs, but they will be only
9.0 specific and won't affect 8.0. So I don't think that removing docker in
master branch will affect bugfixing velocity for stable branch a lot.

Regards,
Alex

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk  wrote:

> +1
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Sergii Golovatiuk,
> Skype #golserge
> IRC #holser
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Mike Scherbakov  > wrote:
>
>> If there are no concrete points why we should wait, I'm +1 to go ahead
>> with merges.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 1:32 AM Oleg Gelbukh 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Evgeniy,
>>>
>>> True, and I fully support merging this particular change as soon as
>>> possible, i.e. the moment the 'master' is open for 9.0 development.
>>>
>>> -Oleg
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Oleg,

 With the same degree of confidence we can say that anything we have in
 the beginning of
 the release cycle is not urgent enough. We pushed early branching
 specifically for
 such big changes as Docker removal/Changing repos structures and
 merging invasive patches
 for new release features.

 Vladimir Kuklin,

 I'm not sure what do you mean by "fixing 2 different environments"?
 With environment without
 containers it will simplify debugging process.

 Thanks,

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Oleg Gelbukh 
 wrote:

> Hi
>
> Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker doesn't
> seem an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides moving 
> to
> full package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. So it could
> be easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already almost
> done and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before any other
> significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Oleg Gelbukh
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> Vladimir,
>>
>> I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
>> (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it 
>> is
>> not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
>> approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
>> create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention 
>> to
>> open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
>> creation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <
>> vkuk...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Vladimir
>>>
>>> I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we
>>> should startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on 
>>> fixing 2
>>> different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
>>> velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because 
>>> if
>>> we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays 
>>> and
>>> Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
>>> removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
>>> enjoying holidays?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>>>
 +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,

 Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
 changes as
 early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.

 Thanks,

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> -1
>
> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move
> stable branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. 
> We
> agreed that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new
> features. Let's avoid discussing this again.
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
> bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bulat Gaifullin
>> Mirantis 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Matthew Mosesohn]

Hi all,

I have one concern related to 8.0 bugfixing until GA. If we disable docker
deployment in master, we will need to target docker-specific patches for
8.0 first to master and then backport to stable/8.0, which is still in line
with our standard bugfixing strategy. It will mean we should leave docker
bits in master for now, but mark the deployment mode to "non-docker" as the
default. I doubt that raises concerns, but it will affect CI.

In the short term, we should consider adding a CI job that includes Fuel
Master deployment *with docker enabled* to support speedy bugfix patches.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Aleksandr Didenko 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> having or not having docker on Fuel master affects mostly Fuel node
> deployment related scripts/manifests. If we need to fix a bug in Nailgun or
> OSTF - we can fix it in their codebase and it does not really matter
> whether we run Nailgin or OSTF inside docker or not. The same goes for all
> the OpenStack deployment related manifests - fix will be the same in 9.0
> without docker and in 8.0 with docker.
> Removing docker may introduce a bunch of new bugs, but they will be only
> 9.0 specific and won't affect 8.0. So I don't think that removing docker in
> master branch will affect bugfixing velocity for stable branch a lot.
>
> Regards,
> Alex
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk <
> sgolovat...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Sergii Golovatiuk,
>> Skype #golserge
>> IRC #holser
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Mike Scherbakov <
>> mscherba...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If there are no concrete points why we should wait, I'm +1 to go ahead
>>> with merges.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 1:32 AM Oleg Gelbukh 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Evgeniy,

 True, and I fully support merging this particular change as soon as
 possible, i.e. the moment the 'master' is open for 9.0 development.

 -Oleg

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:

> Hi Oleg,
>
> With the same degree of confidence we can say that anything we have in
> the beginning of
> the release cycle is not urgent enough. We pushed early branching
> specifically for
> such big changes as Docker removal/Changing repos structures and
> merging invasive patches
> for new release features.
>
> Vladimir Kuklin,
>
> I'm not sure what do you mean by "fixing 2 different environments"?
> With environment without
> containers it will simplify debugging process.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Oleg Gelbukh 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker
>> doesn't seem an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides
>> moving to full package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. 
>> So
>> it could be easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already
>> almost done and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before 
>> any
>> other significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg Gelbukh
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Vladimir,
>>>
>>> I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
>>> (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and 
>>> it is
>>> not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
>>> approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If 
>>> we
>>> create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary 
>>> intention to
>>> open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
>>> creation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <
>>> vkuk...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 Vladimir

 I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we
 should startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on 
 fixing 2
 different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
 velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because 
 if
 we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays 
 and
 Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
 removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
 enjoying holidays?

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L 
 wrote:

> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>
> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Evgeniy L]

Hi Oleg,

With the same degree of confidence we can say that anything we have in the
beginning of
the release cycle is not urgent enough. We pushed early branching
specifically for
such big changes as Docker removal/Changing repos structures and merging
invasive patches
for new release features.

Vladimir Kuklin,

I'm not sure what do you mean by "fixing 2 different environments"? With
environment without
containers it will simplify debugging process.

Thanks,

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Oleg Gelbukh 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker doesn't
> seem an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides moving to
> full package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. So it could
> be easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already almost
> done and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before any other
> significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Oleg Gelbukh
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> Vladimir,
>>
>> I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
>> (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it is
>> not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
>> approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
>> create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention to
>> open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
>> creation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Vladimir
>>>
>>> I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we should
>>> startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 2
>>> different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
>>> velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
>>> we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays and
>>> Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
>>> removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
>>> enjoying holidays?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>>>
 +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,

 Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
 changes as
 early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.

 Thanks,

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> -1
>
> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
> branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
> that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features.
> Let's avoid discussing this again.
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
> bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bulat Gaifullin
>> Mirantis Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
>> wrote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrey Maximov
>> Fuel Project Manager
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <
>> vkuk...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks
>>>
>>> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
>>> master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>>>
>>> Here is why I propose to do so.
>>>
>>> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a
>>> lot of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might
>>> have 2 ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect
>>> velocity of bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing
>>> them in stable branches. This actually may significantly increase our
>>> bugfixing pace and put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Yours Faithfully,
>>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>>> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>>> Mirantis, Inc.
>>> +7 (495) 640-49-04
>>> +7 (926) 702-39-68
>>> Skype kuklinvv
>>> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>>> Moscow, Russia,
>>> www.mirantis.com 
>>> www.mirantis.ru
>>> vkuk...@mirantis.com
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>> 
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Oleg Gelbukh]

Evgeniy,

True, and I fully support merging this particular change as soon as
possible, i.e. the moment the 'master' is open for 9.0 development.

-Oleg

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:

> Hi Oleg,
>
> With the same degree of confidence we can say that anything we have in the
> beginning of
> the release cycle is not urgent enough. We pushed early branching
> specifically for
> such big changes as Docker removal/Changing repos structures and merging
> invasive patches
> for new release features.
>
> Vladimir Kuklin,
>
> I'm not sure what do you mean by "fixing 2 different environments"? With
> environment without
> containers it will simplify debugging process.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Oleg Gelbukh 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker doesn't
>> seem an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides moving to
>> full package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. So it could
>> be easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already almost
>> done and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before any other
>> significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg Gelbukh
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Vladimir,
>>>
>>> I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
>>> (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it is
>>> not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
>>> approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
>>> create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention to
>>> open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
>>> creation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Vladimir

 I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we should
 startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 2
 different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
 velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
 we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays and
 Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
 removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
 enjoying holidays?

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:

> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>
> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
> changes as
> early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> -1
>>
>> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
>> branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
>> that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features.
>> Let's avoid discussing this again.
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
>> bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bulat Gaifullin
>>> Mirantis Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrey Maximov
>>> Fuel Project Manager
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <
>>> vkuk...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 Folks

 This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
 master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.

 Here is why I propose to do so.

 Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a
 lot of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might
 have 2 ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect
 velocity of bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to 
 fixing
 them in stable branches. This actually may significantly increase our
 bugfixing pace and put 8.0 GA release on risk.



 --
 Yours Faithfully,
 Vladimir Kuklin,
 Fuel Library Tech Lead,
 Mirantis, Inc.
 +7 (495) 640-49-04
 +7 (926) 702-39-68
 Skype kuklinvv
 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
 Moscow, Russia,
 www.mirantis.com 
 www.mirantis.ru
 vkuk...@mirantis.com


 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Mike Scherbakov]

If there are no concrete points why we should wait, I'm +1 to go ahead with
merges.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 1:32 AM Oleg Gelbukh  wrote:

> Evgeniy,
>
> True, and I fully support merging this particular change as soon as
> possible, i.e. the moment the 'master' is open for 9.0 development.
>
> -Oleg
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>
>> Hi Oleg,
>>
>> With the same degree of confidence we can say that anything we have in
>> the beginning of
>> the release cycle is not urgent enough. We pushed early branching
>> specifically for
>> such big changes as Docker removal/Changing repos structures and merging
>> invasive patches
>> for new release features.
>>
>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>>
>> I'm not sure what do you mean by "fixing 2 different environments"? With
>> environment without
>> containers it will simplify debugging process.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Oleg Gelbukh 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker doesn't
>>> seem an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides moving to
>>> full package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. So it could
>>> be easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already almost
>>> done and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before any other
>>> significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Oleg Gelbukh
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 Vladimir,

 I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
 (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it is
 not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
 approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
 create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention to
 open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
 creation.




 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
 wrote:

> Vladimir
>
> I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we
> should startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 2
> different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
> velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
> we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays and
> Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
> removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
> enjoying holidays?
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>
>> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>>
>> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
>> changes as
>> early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
>>> branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
>>> that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new 
>>> features.
>>> Let's avoid discussing this again.
>>>
>>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
>>> bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 +1

 Regards,
 Bulat Gaifullin
 Mirantis Inc.



 On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
 wrote:

 +1

 Regards,
 Andrey Maximov
 Fuel Project Manager

 On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <
 vkuk...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> Folks
>
> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from
> the master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>
> Here is why I propose to do so.
>
> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a
> lot of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we 
> might
> have 2 ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect
> velocity of bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to 
> fixing
> them in stable branches. This actually may significantly increase our
> bugfixing pace and put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>
>
>
> --
> Yours Faithfully,
> Vladimir Kuklin,
> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
> 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Sergii Golovatiuk]

+1

--
Best regards,
Sergii Golovatiuk,
Skype #golserge
IRC #holser

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Mike Scherbakov 
wrote:

> If there are no concrete points why we should wait, I'm +1 to go ahead
> with merges.
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 1:32 AM Oleg Gelbukh 
> wrote:
>
>> Evgeniy,
>>
>> True, and I fully support merging this particular change as soon as
>> possible, i.e. the moment the 'master' is open for 9.0 development.
>>
>> -Oleg
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Oleg,
>>>
>>> With the same degree of confidence we can say that anything we have in
>>> the beginning of
>>> the release cycle is not urgent enough. We pushed early branching
>>> specifically for
>>> such big changes as Docker removal/Changing repos structures and merging
>>> invasive patches
>>> for new release features.
>>>
>>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what do you mean by "fixing 2 different environments"? With
>>> environment without
>>> containers it will simplify debugging process.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Oleg Gelbukh 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi

 Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker doesn't
 seem an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides moving to
 full package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. So it could
 be easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already almost
 done and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before any other
 significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.

 --
 Best regards,
 Oleg Gelbukh

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> Vladimir,
>
> I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
> (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it 
> is
> not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
> approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
> create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention 
> to
> open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
> creation.
>
>
>
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin  > wrote:
>
>> Vladimir
>>
>> I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we
>> should startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 
>> 2
>> different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
>> velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
>> we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays 
>> and
>> Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
>> removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
>> enjoying holidays?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>>>
>>> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
>>> changes as
>>> early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 -1

 We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move
 stable branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We
 agreed that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new
 features. Let's avoid discussing this again.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
 bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> Regards,
> Bulat Gaifullin
> Mirantis Inc.
>
>
>
> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Regards,
> Andrey Maximov
> Fuel Project Manager
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <
> vkuk...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> Folks
>>
>> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from
>> the master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>>
>> Here is why I propose to do so.
>>
>> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a
>> lot of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we 
>> might
>> have 2 ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect
>> velocity of bug fixing as you need to fix bugs 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Vladimir Kuklin]

Vladimir

I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we should
startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 2
different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays and
Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
enjoying holidays?

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:

> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>
> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
> changes as
> early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> -1
>>
>> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
>> branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
>> that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features.
>> Let's avoid discussing this again.
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin > > wrote:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bulat Gaifullin
>>> Mirantis Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrey Maximov
>>> Fuel Project Manager
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Folks

 This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
 master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.

 Here is why I propose to do so.

 Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot
 of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2
 ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
 bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in stable
 branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
 put 8.0 GA release on risk.



 --
 Yours Faithfully,
 Vladimir Kuklin,
 Fuel Library Tech Lead,
 Mirantis, Inc.
 +7 (495) 640-49-04
 +7 (926) 702-39-68
 Skype kuklinvv
 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
 Moscow, Russia,
 www.mirantis.com 
 www.mirantis.ru
 vkuk...@mirantis.com


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-- 
Yours Faithfully,
Vladimir Kuklin,
Fuel Library Tech Lead,
Mirantis, Inc.
+7 (495) 640-49-04
+7 (926) 702-39-68
Skype kuklinvv
35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
Moscow, Russia,
www.mirantis.com 
www.mirantis.ru
vkuk...@mirantis.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

Vladimir,

I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
(separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it is
not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention to
open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
creation.




Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
wrote:

> Vladimir
>
> I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we should
> startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 2
> different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
> velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
> we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays and
> Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
> removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
> enjoying holidays?
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>
>> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>>
>> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
>> changes as
>> early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
>>> branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
>>> that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features.
>>> Let's avoid discussing this again.
>>>
>>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
>>> bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 +1

 Regards,
 Bulat Gaifullin
 Mirantis Inc.



 On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
 wrote:

 +1

 Regards,
 Andrey Maximov
 Fuel Project Manager

 On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
 wrote:

> Folks
>
> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
> master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>
> Here is why I propose to do so.
>
> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot
> of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2
> ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
> bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in 
> stable
> branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
> put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>
>
>
> --
> Yours Faithfully,
> Vladimir Kuklin,
> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
> Mirantis, Inc.
> +7 (495) 640-49-04
> +7 (926) 702-39-68
> Skype kuklinvv
> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
> Moscow, Russia,
> www.mirantis.com 
> www.mirantis.ru
> vkuk...@mirantis.com
>
>
> __
> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Unsubscribe:
> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> 
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>
>

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>>>
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>
>
> --
> Yours Faithfully,
> Vladimir Kuklin,
> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
> Mirantis, Inc.
> +7 (495) 640-49-04
> +7 (926) 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Oleg Gelbukh]

Hi

Although I agree that it should be done, the removal of Docker doesn't seem
an urgent feature to me. It is not blocking anything besides moving to full
package-based deployment of Fuel, as far as I understand. So it could be
easily delayed for one milestone, especially if it is already almost done
and submitted for review, so it could be merged fast before any other
significant changes land in 'master' after it is open.

--
Best regards,
Oleg Gelbukh

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> Vladimir,
>
> I have other activities planned for the time immediately after SCF
> (separating UI from fuel-web, maybe it is even more invasive :-)) and it is
> not a big deal to postpone this feature or another. I am against the
> approach itself of postponing something because it is too invasive. If we
> create stable branch master becomes open. That was our primary intention to
> open master earlier than later when we decided to move stable branch
> creation.
>
>
>
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
> wrote:
>
>> Vladimir
>>
>> I am pretty much for removing docker, but I do not think that we should
>> startle our developers/QA folks with additional efforts on fixing 2
>> different environments. Let's just think from the point of development
>> velocity here and at delay such changes for at least after NY. Because if
>> we do it immediately after SCF there will be a whole bunch of holidays and
>> Russian holidays are Jan 1st-10th and you (who is the SME for docker
>> removal) will be offline. Do you really want to fix things instead of
>> enjoying holidays?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Evgeniy L  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,
>>>
>>> Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such
>>> changes as
>>> early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
>>> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>>>
 -1

 We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
 branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
 that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features.
 Let's avoid discussing this again.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin <
 bgaiful...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> Regards,
> Bulat Gaifullin
> Mirantis Inc.
>
>
>
> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov 
> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Regards,
> Andrey Maximov
> Fuel Project Manager
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin  > wrote:
>
>> Folks
>>
>> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
>> master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>>
>> Here is why I propose to do so.
>>
>> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot
>> of regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 
>> 2
>> ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
>> bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in 
>> stable
>> branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
>> put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Yours Faithfully,
>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>> Mirantis, Inc.
>> +7 (495) 640-49-04
>> +7 (926) 702-39-68
>> Skype kuklinvv
>> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>> Moscow, Russia,
>> www.mirantis.com 
>> www.mirantis.ru
>> vkuk...@mirantis.com
>>
>>
>> __
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Unsubscribe:
>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>> 
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Evgeniy L]

+1 to Vladimir Kozhukalov,

Entire point of moving branches creation to SCF was to perform such changes
as
early as possible in the release, I see no reasons to wait for HCF.

Thanks,

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> -1
>
> We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable
> branch creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed
> that once stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features.
> Let's avoid discussing this again.
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin 
> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bulat Gaifullin
>> Mirantis Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov  wrote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrey Maximov
>> Fuel Project Manager
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks
>>>
>>> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
>>> master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>>>
>>> Here is why I propose to do so.
>>>
>>> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot of
>>> regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2
>>> ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
>>> bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in stable
>>> branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
>>> put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Yours Faithfully,
>>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>>> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>>> Mirantis, Inc.
>>> +7 (495) 640-49-04
>>> +7 (926) 702-39-68
>>> Skype kuklinvv
>>> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>>> Moscow, Russia,
>>> www.mirantis.com 
>>> www.mirantis.ru
>>> vkuk...@mirantis.com
>>>
>>>
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[openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Vladimir Kuklin]

Folks

This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the master
node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.

Here is why I propose to do so.

Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot of
regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2
ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in stable
branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
put 8.0 GA release on risk.



-- 
Yours Faithfully,
Vladimir Kuklin,
Fuel Library Tech Lead,
Mirantis, Inc.
+7 (495) 640-49-04
+7 (926) 702-39-68
Skype kuklinvv
35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
Moscow, Russia,
www.mirantis.com 
www.mirantis.ru
vkuk...@mirantis.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Andrew Maksimov]

+1

Regards,
Andrey Maximov
Fuel Project Manager

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
wrote:

> Folks
>
> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the master
> node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>
> Here is why I propose to do so.
>
> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot of
> regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2
> ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
> bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in stable
> branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
> put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>
>
>
> --
> Yours Faithfully,
> Vladimir Kuklin,
> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
> Mirantis, Inc.
> +7 (495) 640-49-04
> +7 (926) 702-39-68
> Skype kuklinvv
> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
> Moscow, Russia,
> www.mirantis.com 
> www.mirantis.ru
> vkuk...@mirantis.com
>
> __
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Bulat Gaifullin]

+1

Regards,
Bulat Gaifullin
Mirantis Inc.



> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov  wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> Regards,
> Andrey Maximov
> Fuel Project Manager
> 
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin  > wrote:
> Folks
> 
> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the master 
> node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF. 
> 
> Here is why I propose to do so.
> 
> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot of 
> regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2 ways 
> of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of bug 
> fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in stable 
> branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and put 
> 8.0 GA release on risk.
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Yours Faithfully,
> Vladimir Kuklin,
> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
> Mirantis, Inc.
> +7 (495) 640-49-04
> +7 (926) 702-39-68
> Skype kuklinvv
> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
> Moscow, Russia,
> www.mirantis.com 
> www.mirantis.ru 
> vkuk...@mirantis.com 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Proposal to Delay Docker Removal From Fuel Master Node

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

-1

We already discussed this and we have made a decision to move stable branch
creation from HCF to SCF. There were reasons for this. We agreed that once
stable branch is created, master becomes open for new features. Let's avoid
discussing this again.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bulat Gaifullin 
wrote:

> +1
>
> Regards,
> Bulat Gaifullin
> Mirantis Inc.
>
>
>
> On 15 Dec 2015, at 22:19, Andrew Maksimov  wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Regards,
> Andrey Maximov
> Fuel Project Manager
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Vladimir Kuklin 
> wrote:
>
>> Folks
>>
>> This email is a proposal to push Docker containers removal from the
>> master node to the date beyond 8.0 HCF.
>>
>> Here is why I propose to do so.
>>
>> Removal of Docker is a rather invasive change and may introduce a lot of
>> regressions. It is well may affect how bugs are fixed - we might have 2
>> ways of fixing them, while during SCF of 8.0 this may affect velocity of
>> bug fixing as you need to fix bugs in master prior to fixing them in stable
>> branches. This actually may significantly increase our bugfixing pace and
>> put 8.0 GA release on risk.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Yours Faithfully,
>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>> Mirantis, Inc.
>> +7 (495) 640-49-04
>> +7 (926) 702-39-68
>> Skype kuklinvv
>> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>> Moscow, Russia,
>> www.mirantis.com 
>> www.mirantis.ru
>> vkuk...@mirantis.com
>>
>> __
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
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>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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