Re: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores
. I have seen any features that needed feedback from variety of groups have been discussed at the events like summit, mini-summit, video conferencing, etc. The invitations have been public and for events that have limited seats (like video conference), open notices have been given to help FCFS principle. Also, please do add timeliness in the feedback as a part of the concern. A few of the non-drivers have not provided timely feedback that has caused disgruntlement within subset of the community members. We need to resolve that. So, the takeaway looks like we need a priority list of the features that will be the focus of the cycle. We take the help of such committed drivers (who often provide great feedback outside of the specs as well) and help drive the program forward by making core reviewers aware of the needed reviews. I hope that answers your questions. I have attempted to jot this down very late in the night and may have missed some things; I apologize about the same. Please do raise any outstanding concerns and I will make best attempt in formulating the answers to the same in writing; some things are just intuitive and better communicated verbally :-) I appreciate your concern raised out in the open and touching very important points about our process. As an effervescent and dynamic community, we should plan to move towards a better process model get something documented in this cycle and help clear any concerns for the members who are less frequent visitors to the ML. Looking forward to having such great conversations more often across all OpenStack projects. [1] https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/new-projects-requirements.rst I agree glance-drivers is another responsibility, which is why I said that it'd be totally ok to just opt-out from doing it. I believe we're just arguing whether we should let cores opt-in to drivers or just opt-out from it. TBH, I think core-reviewers should participate in the specs reviews because it takes more than a spec to actually implement a feature and sooner or later, reviewers will have to go back to the spec and read it in order to provide a proper review to a patch. Scaling drivers is not just a matter of adding more people to the team, you also need to have a specific workflow that drivers can follow in order to provide good reviews not just to the specs but to the patches themselves. In addition to this, there are specs that require patches to be submitted to give a better understanding of what the feature is about. That being said, if we look at the review/approval stats for our specs repo, most of the approvals were done by the PTL, whereas the rest of the team mostly did +2s and very few approvals that I didn't dug into very much. This basically shows that our review process for specs depends the PTL approving them, which TBH I'm not fully against to. As a PTL, it is good to have a good visibility of the things that are happening in the project. Therefore, knowing what specs have been approved is definitely a good thing. The above plays nice with a broader set of reviewers that would provide as much feedbacj to the specs as possible and then sync back to the rest of the team or, at the very least, the PTL. As I mentioned in one of my previous emails, we do this in oslo.* and it's worked quite well, I believe. I personally trust our core-reviewers team to have them all added to drivers and encourage them to review the specs w/o approving. In addition to that, each of our specs require a core-reviewer to be added in the reviewers section. It makes little sense to me to have core reviewers added to specs and those same reviewers not having a voice/vote on the specs. Yes, they can comment, I know, but still. I hope it's clearer where I'm coming from. Cheers, Flavio Best, -Nikhil From: Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 4:34 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores On 20/04/15 19:34 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: -Original Message- From: Flavio Percoco [mailto:fla...@redhat.com] Sent: 20 April 2015 15:04 To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores Hello Glance folks, and not Glance folks :D Here's a thought. I believe, based on the size of our project/community/reviewers team, we should just give access to all glance- cores to glance-drivers. Few considerations: 1) Many of our reviewers have been part of Glance even before I became part of it. It just makes no sense to me that these folks that have put efforts, time and that have helped making Glance what it is today don't have a voice on the specs. Commenting seems to not be enough, apparently. 2) I'd like to encourage a more open communication in our specs review process and including all our current
Re: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores
at the events like summit, mini-summit, video conferencing, etc. The invitations have been public and for events that have limited seats (like video conference), open notices have been given to help FCFS principle. Also, please do add timeliness in the feedback as a part of the concern. A few of the non-drivers have not provided timely feedback that has caused disgruntlement within subset of the community members. We need to resolve that. So, the takeaway looks like we need a priority list of the features that will be the focus of the cycle. We take the help of such committed drivers (who often provide great feedback outside of the specs as well) and help drive the program forward by making core reviewers aware of the needed reviews. I hope that answers your questions. I have attempted to jot this down very late in the night and may have missed some things; I apologize about the same. Please do raise any outstanding concerns and I will make best attempt in formulating the answers to the same in writing; some things are just intuitive and better communicated verbally :-) I appreciate your concern raised out in the open and touching very important points about our process. As an effervescent and dynamic community, we should plan to move towards a better process model get something documented in this cycle and help clear any concerns for the members who are less frequent visitors to the ML. Looking forward to having such great conversations more often across all OpenStack projects. [1] https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/new-projects-requirements.rst Best, -Nikhil From: Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 4:34 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores On 20/04/15 19:34 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: -Original Message- From: Flavio Percoco [mailto:fla...@redhat.com] Sent: 20 April 2015 15:04 To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores Hello Glance folks, and not Glance folks :D Here's a thought. I believe, based on the size of our project/community/reviewers team, we should just give access to all glance- cores to glance-drivers. Few considerations: 1) Many of our reviewers have been part of Glance even before I became part of it. It just makes no sense to me that these folks that have put efforts, time and that have helped making Glance what it is today don't have a voice on the specs. Commenting seems to not be enough, apparently. 2) I'd like to encourage a more open communication in our specs review process and including all our current *code* reviewers seems like a good step forward towards that. Things that I'd love to thing and to avoid are: - I'd love to avoid all kind of private emails/conversations. Specs can either be discussed in the review (which is what it's for), team meetings or mailing list. - I'd love for specs to get more attention from other folks. In other words, I'd like to scale our specs review process. There are specs that have sitten there for a bit. - Our *code* reviewers know Glance's code, I want them to have a way to express a stronger opinion/vote. 3) Although this doesn't seem to work for other projects, I believe Glance is not such a big community for this to fail. If anything, it should help us to manage the load a bit better. If there are core-reviewers that simply don't want to do spec reviews, that's fine. 4) If there are non-core reviewers that want to be part of the glance-drivers team then we can vote as we do for new cores. I have to admit that I'm having a hard time to imagine a case like this but... who knows? right? 5) It used to be like this and many of us just found themselves out of the glance-drivers team without notice. It's probably an unexpected side effect of disconnecting LP/gerrit and splitting the teams. Not a big deal, but... Thoughts? Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco Hi Flavio, Thanks for your trust towards us. While I think this is great gesture (specially towards us new members) I do not think this is exactly the safest option at the moment. We have had active discussion and steep learning curve to the specs over past cycle and I think we need to sort that out first. Second concern I have is that looking our core-reviewers now, we are actually fairly young group since the last flush (give or take half of us have been even core less than a year). I will jump bit around on this so please try to hang on. For your point 3) I do agree. I think we can get there fairly soon if that is what people wants, but as mentioned I'd like to get our processes cleared first. I'd like to address points 4 and 5 on single hit and _if_ we in future include whole core in the drivers we keep
[openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores
Hello Glance folks, and not Glance folks :D Here's a thought. I believe, based on the size of our project/community/reviewers team, we should just give access to all glance-cores to glance-drivers. Few considerations: 1) Many of our reviewers have been part of Glance even before I became part of it. It just makes no sense to me that these folks that have put efforts, time and that have helped making Glance what it is today don't have a voice on the specs. Commenting seems to not be enough, apparently. 2) I'd like to encourage a more open communication in our specs review process and including all our current *code* reviewers seems like a good step forward towards that. Things that I'd love to thing and to avoid are: - I'd love to avoid all kind of private emails/conversations. Specs can either be discussed in the review (which is what it's for), team meetings or mailing list. - I'd love for specs to get more attention from other folks. In other words, I'd like to scale our specs review process. There are specs that have sitten there for a bit. - Our *code* reviewers know Glance's code, I want them to have a way to express a stronger opinion/vote. 3) Although this doesn't seem to work for other projects, I believe Glance is not such a big community for this to fail. If anything, it should help us to manage the load a bit better. If there are core-reviewers that simply don't want to do spec reviews, that's fine. 4) If there are non-core reviewers that want to be part of the glance-drivers team then we can vote as we do for new cores. I have to admit that I'm having a hard time to imagine a case like this but... who knows? right? 5) It used to be like this and many of us just found themselves out of the glance-drivers team without notice. It's probably an unexpected side effect of disconnecting LP/gerrit and splitting the teams. Not a big deal, but... Thoughts? Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgpjvArMypqkP.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores
-Original Message- From: Flavio Percoco [mailto:fla...@redhat.com] Sent: 20 April 2015 15:04 To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: [openstack-dev] [Glance] Open glance-drivers to all glance-cores Hello Glance folks, and not Glance folks :D Here's a thought. I believe, based on the size of our project/community/reviewers team, we should just give access to all glance- cores to glance-drivers. Few considerations: 1) Many of our reviewers have been part of Glance even before I became part of it. It just makes no sense to me that these folks that have put efforts, time and that have helped making Glance what it is today don't have a voice on the specs. Commenting seems to not be enough, apparently. 2) I'd like to encourage a more open communication in our specs review process and including all our current *code* reviewers seems like a good step forward towards that. Things that I'd love to thing and to avoid are: - I'd love to avoid all kind of private emails/conversations. Specs can either be discussed in the review (which is what it's for), team meetings or mailing list. - I'd love for specs to get more attention from other folks. In other words, I'd like to scale our specs review process. There are specs that have sitten there for a bit. - Our *code* reviewers know Glance's code, I want them to have a way to express a stronger opinion/vote. 3) Although this doesn't seem to work for other projects, I believe Glance is not such a big community for this to fail. If anything, it should help us to manage the load a bit better. If there are core-reviewers that simply don't want to do spec reviews, that's fine. 4) If there are non-core reviewers that want to be part of the glance-drivers team then we can vote as we do for new cores. I have to admit that I'm having a hard time to imagine a case like this but... who knows? right? 5) It used to be like this and many of us just found themselves out of the glance-drivers team without notice. It's probably an unexpected side effect of disconnecting LP/gerrit and splitting the teams. Not a big deal, but... Thoughts? Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco Hi Flavio, Thanks for your trust towards us. While I think this is great gesture (specially towards us new members) I do not think this is exactly the safest option at the moment. We have had active discussion and steep learning curve to the specs over past cycle and I think we need to sort that out first. Second concern I have is that looking our core-reviewers now, we are actually fairly young group since the last flush (give or take half of us have been even core less than a year). I will jump bit around on this so please try to hang on. For your point 3) I do agree. I think we can get there fairly soon if that is what people wants, but as mentioned I'd like to get our processes cleared first. I'd like to address points 4 and 5 on single hit and _if_ we in future include whole core in the drivers we keep the drivers group still separated and individual members to that group nominated on similar open manner as we do for our cores. Now last but not least to your point 2) (sorry, I have really no input on 1)). I do strongly agree with you on this. As the specs are supposed to be not just an overview of the proposed functionality but also touched quite deeply to the technical aspects and as you pointed out that would be great to engage more of the code folks to the specs, there would be room for stronger opinion. What I would propose as alternative instead of including glance-core to glance-drivers would be change in the acls of the glance-specs repo. How about we give -2..+2 vote to glance-core glance-drivers and keep the workflow +1 on glance-drivers only? This would give us stronger say on the direction but would keep the decision of taking the spec out of review (merge) on the drivers until we can figure out/agree and _document_ how we are going to process the specs. Best, Erno Meeting-the-half-way Kuvaja ;) __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
