Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
Please note that should be #openstack-sdks (plural) ! > On Nov 13, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: > > The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's > not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget > about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the > right people in a conversation to make a decision. > > I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk > the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the > openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are > happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are > incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is > already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing > forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the > whole space of a more usable API for users. > > This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum > events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. > > Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) A little bit of data to inform the decision. I threw together a quick n' dirty spreadsheet [1] to see what the user overlap is like. 16 of the 39 in #openstack-api are already in #openstack-sdks. I'm actually not super opinionated on it. But I suppose I'd lean towards folding it in. Would like to hear what others in the API WG think. Everett [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12i1bSIu38yLXnAiasNjb4Nzhy1yaHmVOQ3kFr1GIFIk/edit?usp=sharing __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
As a -sdks regular, I wouldn't mind some of the API folks crashing the channel :) If it makes sense, then why not. There are already some folks that are involved in both efforts (Everett). Steve From: Sean Dague To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" Date: 2015/11/13 07:59 AM Subject:[openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk? The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the right people in a conversation to make a decision. I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the whole space of a more usable API for users. This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) -Sean -- Sean Dague http://dague.net __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
Cool with me. On 11/13/2015 07:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the right people in a conversation to make a decision. I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the whole space of a more usable API for users. This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) -Sean __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: > I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk > the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the > openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are > happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are > incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is > already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing > forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the > whole space of a more usable API for users. > As part of another project crashing in -sdks I am fine with this. ;) I like the idea of some consolidation, ever since Keystone left -dev it's been REALLY quite there too. dt -- Dean Troyer dtro...@gmail.com __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On 11/13/2015 07:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the right people in a conversation to make a decision. I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the whole space of a more usable API for users. This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) i don't necessarily have an outright objection to this, but i would like explore the future possibilities of this change. i think there is possibility for the api-wg to grow and take on more responsibility within the openstack community and i'm curious about the net effect down the road if that expansion were to occur. are there any side-effects we should be aware of as we merge the two channels/communities into one namespace? i realize there is some overlap of engineering/design that takes place on these channels, i'm just concerned about the idea of merging the two and then at some point in the future wanting to separate them. i'm not proposing these thoughts to quash the idea of joining, i'd just like to more fully understand the longer term implications of a merge. anyone with more experience in this community-oriented side of things have some light to shed? thanks, mike __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On 11/16/2015 09:34 AM, michael mccune wrote: > On 11/13/2015 07:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: >> The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's >> not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget >> about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the >> right people in a conversation to make a decision. >> >> I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk >> the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the >> openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are >> happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are >> incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is >> already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing >> forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the >> whole space of a more usable API for users. >> >> This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum >> events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. >> >> Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) > > i don't necessarily have an outright objection to this, but i would like > explore the future possibilities of this change. > > i think there is possibility for the api-wg to grow and take on more > responsibility within the openstack community and i'm curious about the > net effect down the road if that expansion were to occur. are there any > side-effects we should be aware of as we merge the two > channels/communities into one namespace? > > i realize there is some overlap of engineering/design that takes place > on these channels, i'm just concerned about the idea of merging the two > and then at some point in the future wanting to separate them. i'm not > proposing these thoughts to quash the idea of joining, i'd just like to > more fully understand the longer term implications of a merge. > > anyone with more experience in this community-oriented side of things > have some light to shed? Typically the only real reason to spin off another channel is that there are now too many conversations happening all at once that are unrelated and people are finding it is impeding their ability to get work done. I can't imagine this happening any time within the next couple of years. An average day in #openstack-api is < 20 messages (from a quick spot check in IRC logs). I feel there is a lot of benefits in having these groups that do related work all doing it in one channel. Even though it's a number of discreet outputs, the "hallway track" of having api producers and consumers doing their business all in front of each other should quite help in ensuring that we all make something better. -Sean -- Sean Dague http://dague.net __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On 11/16/2015 09:42 AM, Sean Dague wrote: On 11/16/2015 09:34 AM, michael mccune wrote: On 11/13/2015 07:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the right people in a conversation to make a decision. I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the whole space of a more usable API for users. This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) i don't necessarily have an outright objection to this, but i would like explore the future possibilities of this change. i think there is possibility for the api-wg to grow and take on more responsibility within the openstack community and i'm curious about the net effect down the road if that expansion were to occur. are there any side-effects we should be aware of as we merge the two channels/communities into one namespace? i realize there is some overlap of engineering/design that takes place on these channels, i'm just concerned about the idea of merging the two and then at some point in the future wanting to separate them. i'm not proposing these thoughts to quash the idea of joining, i'd just like to more fully understand the longer term implications of a merge. anyone with more experience in this community-oriented side of things have some light to shed? Typically the only real reason to spin off another channel is that there are now too many conversations happening all at once that are unrelated and people are finding it is impeding their ability to get work done. I can't imagine this happening any time within the next couple of years. An average day in #openstack-api is < 20 messages (from a quick spot check in IRC logs). I feel there is a lot of benefits in having these groups that do related work all doing it in one channel. Even though it's a number of discreet outputs, the "hallway track" of having api producers and consumers doing their business all in front of each other should quite help in ensuring that we all make something better. thanks for the clarifications Sean, i appreciate the extra resolution and i agree that having both these groups able to comment on similar issues in a common place seems ideal. regards, mike __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On 11/16/2015 11:09 AM, michael mccune wrote: > On 11/16/2015 09:42 AM, Sean Dague wrote: >> On 11/16/2015 09:34 AM, michael mccune wrote: >>> On 11/13/2015 07:58 AM, Sean Dague wrote: The #openstack-api IRC channel is quite quiet most days. As such it's not something that people are regularly checking in on, or often forget about (I know I've been guilty of that). Plus we don't always have the right people in a conversation to make a decision. I'd like to propose we drop the channel entirely and make #openstack-sdk the home of API working group conversations. That's where all the openstackclient, openstackclientconfig, and sdk conversations are happening. It's where the end consumers of any API WG effort are, so are incredibly good sounding boards for things we are doing. There is already a large overlap between the two channels, so just pushing forward on that means more critical mass for conversations around the whole space of a more usable API for users. This came up at the last API WG meeting, but those are pretty low quorum events, so this is a thing we should definitely decide over ML instead. Please express your feelings here and lets make it happen. :) >>> >>> i don't necessarily have an outright objection to this, but i would like >>> explore the future possibilities of this change. >>> >>> i think there is possibility for the api-wg to grow and take on more >>> responsibility within the openstack community and i'm curious about the >>> net effect down the road if that expansion were to occur. are there any >>> side-effects we should be aware of as we merge the two >>> channels/communities into one namespace? >>> >>> i realize there is some overlap of engineering/design that takes place >>> on these channels, i'm just concerned about the idea of merging the two >>> and then at some point in the future wanting to separate them. i'm not >>> proposing these thoughts to quash the idea of joining, i'd just like to >>> more fully understand the longer term implications of a merge. >>> >>> anyone with more experience in this community-oriented side of things >>> have some light to shed? >> >> Typically the only real reason to spin off another channel is that there >> are now too many conversations happening all at once that are unrelated >> and people are finding it is impeding their ability to get work done. I >> can't imagine this happening any time within the next couple of years. >> An average day in #openstack-api is < 20 messages (from a quick spot >> check in IRC logs). >> >> I feel there is a lot of benefits in having these groups that do related >> work all doing it in one channel. Even though it's a number of discreet >> outputs, the "hallway track" of having api producers and consumers doing >> their business all in front of each other should quite help in ensuring >> that we all make something better. > > thanks for the clarifications Sean, i appreciate the extra resolution > and i agree that having both these groups able to comment on similar > issues in a common place seems ideal. Ok, I'm going to assume with no real disagreement we're agreed here. I'm moving the api-wg notifications to #openstack-sdks now - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251357/1/gerritbot/channels.yaml,cm -Sean -- Sean Dague http://dague.net __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On 11/30/2015 08:45 AM, Sean Dague wrote: Ok, I'm going to assume with no real disagreement we're agreed here. I'm moving the api-wg notifications to #openstack-sdks now - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251357/1/gerritbot/channels.yaml,cm ok, i think we've got a few spots in the documentation that refer to openstack-api. we can start the process of adjusting all those to openstack-sdks. mike __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [api] consolidate IRC change with #openstack-sdk?
On Nov 30, 2015, at 7:58 AM, michael mccune wrote: > > On 11/30/2015 08:45 AM, Sean Dague wrote: >> Ok, I'm going to assume with no real disagreement we're agreed here. I'm >> moving the api-wg notifications to #openstack-sdks now - >> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251357/1/gerritbot/channels.yaml,cm > > ok, i think we've got a few spots in the documentation that refer to > openstack-api. we can start the process of adjusting all those to > openstack-sdks. I updated the couple of places I could find on the wiki. I also sent out a personalized message to everyone in the now defunct #openstack-api channel on Freenode. See you in #openstack-sdks (don't forget it's plural!) Everett __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
