[opensuse-factory] nut UPS problems with USB ports
Hi, I have a Powerware 3105 UPS and am trying to get nut to work with it. The UPS communicates via a USB port. I have SuSE 10.0 which comes with nut 2.02 which does not support this UPS so I downloaded nut-2.0.3-10.src.rpm from the 10.1 factory depository and compiled it without any problems. Where the problem arrises is the port configuration and permissions. lsusb Bus 005 Device 001: ID : Bus 004 Device 002: ID 04b8:0110 Seiko Epson Corp. Perfection 1650 Bus 004 Device 001: ID : Bus 003 Device 001: ID : Bus 002 Device 006: ID 0592:0002 Powerware Corp. Bus 002 Device 001: ID : Bus 001 Device 001: ID : If I change the owner of /proc/bus/usb/002/006 to upsd:root I can get the bcmxcp_usb driver to load. The /etc/init.d/uspd script will not run because the port is defined as 'auto' as per the bcmxcp_usb man page Implemention. The script fails when testing for the port as there is no physical port defined in /etc/ups/ups.conf as stated above. The script I believe will only work with 'tty' devices where you have an actual port assigned, but USB ports appear to be configured differently. BTW I just checked the latest nut-2.0.3-13.src.rpm has the same problem with /etc/init.d/upsd script. How do I file a bug report as I'm using SuSE 10.0 but using the src.rpm from the current 10.1 factory repository. -- Regards, Graham Smith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] factory update RC1-RC2
Andreas Jaeger wrote: Yes, it should be possible with factory as source, nice, thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-announce] SUSE Linux 10.1 RC2 Release
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 12:33:15PM +0200, houghi wrote: On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 11:02:32AM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote: I'm glad to announce SUSE Linux 10.1 Codename Agama Lizard RC2. We have fixed the majority of bugs from RC1 and will release an RC3 next week. During the RC phase, we only provide delta ISOs of the media and update the factory tree as well. Is there some way of checking if the iso's I made are correct in size and so on before I start and try to install them? e.g. CD2 is 377M in size. Now that could be correct, or something could have gone wrong. applydeltaiso does check this itself by calculating the md5sum. Just read the last line that is printed on the screen. Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. pgp0JOtKe7WVk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-announce] SUSE Linux 10.1 RC2 Release
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 12:43:19PM +0200, Robert Schiele wrote: applydeltaiso does check this itself by calculating the md5sum. Just read the last line that is printed on the screen. I don't see a `last line` as it is in a for I in ... :-/ houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-announce] SUSE Linux 10.1 RC2 Release
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 12:44:56PM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote: On Saturday 22 April 2006 12:33, houghi wrote: Is there some way of checking if the iso's I made are correct in size and so on before I start and try to install them? e.g. CD2 is 377M in size. At the end applydeltaiso outputs the md5sum of the new iso. You can compare that md5sum with these: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/distribution/SL-10.1-RC2/delta-iso/MD5SUMS.full.iso My new cd2 (i386) is 634 megs however. OK, thanks. I get : SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-i386-CD1.iso: OK SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-i386-CD2.iso: FAILED SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-i386-CD3.iso: OK The others are still on the way. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-announce] SUSE Linux 10.1 RC2 Release
On Saturday 22 April 2006 12:58, houghi wrote: I don't see a `last line` as it is in a for I in ... :-/ It should look something like this (cd5) [..] xfntjp.noarch (bzip): applying delta xml-commons-apis.noarch (bzip): applying delta xml-commons-resolver.noarch (bzip): applying delta xml-commons.noarch (bzip): applying delta iso sucessfully re-created, md5sum: 19285e1d6ba62e50e89093660275fcc0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/download cb400f - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-announce] SUSE Linux 10.1 RC2 Release
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 01:11:08PM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote: On Saturday 22 April 2006 12:58, houghi wrote: I don't see a `last line` as it is in a for I in ... :-/ It should look something like this (cd5) I understand. However the moment I saw that it was the size it was, it was already working on CD3 and I could not go back far enough to see what CD2 had as output. :-/ I just have to try it again and see what happens. Thanks anyway. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] nut UPS problems with USB ports
Hello, Am Samstag, 22. April 2006 08:36 schrieb Graham Smith: How do I file a bug report as I'm using SuSE 10.0 but using the src.rpm from the current 10.1 factory repository. I'd say: file it against 10.1 - but please add a note that you are using this Factory package on a 10.0 system. If you have the possibility, you can also install 10.1 RC2 of course ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] RC2 update fails
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Glenn Holmer wrote: Just installed RC2 from delta'd ISOs, and on second boot the SUSEwatcher replacement has a red bang, so I click and select Update in the dialog for item kernel... and get another dialog with an angry red X and Dependency Resolution Failed, with message Resolver failed. I thought this stuff was fixed? How to diagnose for filing an issue? We need /var/log/zmd-* and /var/log/YaST2/* attached to a bug to be able to look into this ;) Regards Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] factory update RC1-RC2
jdd wrote: I really don't like the delta iso process, even if I understand the necessity. I wasn't quite sure either, but it works just fine. I retrieved the deltas last night, started the applydeltaiso, then went to bed. /Per Jessen, Zürich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] factory update RC1-RC2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 jdd wrote: I really don't like the delta iso process, even if I understand the necessity. but I beg the net install is still possible, with factory as source? How to use smart to upgrade packages with Factory: http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2006/04/how-to-use-smart-with-suse-linux.html - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFESiucr3NMWliFcXcRAlEmAKCyK58AmA3TWsUK28PoK161/JP47QCdFJAB buCIcoQxhkrC/LUY6ktCnT8= =zT0t -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-announce] SUSE Linux 10.1 RC2 Release
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 03:16:41PM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Martin Schlander [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Saturday 22 April 2006 12:33, houghi wrote:
Is there some way of checking if the iso's I made are correct in size and
so on before I start and try to install them? e.g. CD2 is 377M in size.
At the end applydeltaiso outputs the md5sum of the new iso. You can compare
that md5sum with these:
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/distribution/SL-10.1-RC2/delta-iso/MD5SUMS.full.iso
applydeltaiso will verify the MD5SUM itself, AFAIK it stores it in
the delta.
I used the following:
for I in `seq 5`;do applydeltaiso SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1-i386-CD${I}.iso \
SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1_RC2-i386-CD${I}.delta.iso \
SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-i386-CD${I}.iso;done
And therefore did not see the message. In the past this always worked 100%
and also now the other 4 iso's were perfect. Just CD2 was not. No idea
why. A second applydeltaiso on CD2 worked perfectly.
houghi
--
Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es
ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk
und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun
- Johannes Müller-Elmau
-
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[opensuse-factory] applydeltaiso error
When running applydeltaiso to CD1 I get the following error: payload uncompress error Any clue as to what this means? I have over 27g of free disk space. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] RC2 update fails
On Saturday 22 April 2006 07:11, Christoph Thiel wrote: We need /var/log/zmd-* and /var/log/YaST2/* attached to a bug to be able to look into this ;) #168607 -- Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) I love virtuosity. I love danger. -Pierre Boulez, 2005 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] ALSA sound disappeared
Hi all, I have an issue with RC1 (I know, RC2 is ot now, but maybe the problem remains): I have a Soundblaster live 24 which uses driver CA0106. After installation it worked quite well for almost a week. 3 days ago the system booted without any sound. I tried: alsamixer: front analog is on 88% alsaconf: worked well, found the card, played the test sound - but I couldn't hear it. silence. /etc/init.d/alsasound restart (and stop and start...) got ...done but no sound... dmesg: nothing regarding ALSA modprobe snd-ca0106: nothing Any hints? Regards, Martin P.S.: YES, speakers are on P.P.S.: YES, when I boot into windows sound is perfectly there. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] Delta-ISO problem for CD1
Hi, Until now I could apply the delta ISOs without problems. Now I cannot create the CD1. I verified, the md5sum for the RC1-CD1 is OK, the md5sum for the delta-iso is OK, but after applying, the result CD is NOT OK, both according to applydeltaiso and a manual checking of the md5sum: md5sum SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1-x86_64-CD1.iso 6fcd57b438477ebb90162236678ebefc SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1-x86_64-CD1.iso md5sum SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1_RC2-x86_64-CD1.delta.iso ad44f70c5eee8ee7001fce102b229899 SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1_RC2-x86_64-CD1.delta.iso The result of applydeltaiso: md5sum mismatch, iso is corrupt Manual checking: md5sum SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-x86_64-CD1.iso d55dadb1b636d3fe3433a7ecb5e1dc32 SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-x86_64-CD1.iso It should be 47f3cf67680c0cafdf64911c0eabfc53 . Any idea what can I do? Andras -- Quanta Plus developer - http://quanta.kdewebdev.org K Desktop Environment - http://www.kde.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] RC1 xgl/compiz cube inside out
Kudos to the team for the incredible progress from the time of the late betas to RC1 - I've loaded RC1 onto my laptop and am quite pleased with it. I decided to play around with the Xgl stuff. I followed the directions, or so I thought, and I have some very cool effects going on now, but the the desktops all appear on the *inside* of the cube - very odd. Is there some setting I've accidentally tweaked? Where would I change that? Joe - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] Solved: [opensuse-factory] RC1 xgl/compiz cube inside out
J Sloan wrote: Kudos to the team for the incredible progress from the time of the late betas to RC1 - I've loaded RC1 onto my laptop and am quite pleased with it. I decided to play around with the Xgl stuff. I followed the directions, or so I thought, and I have some very cool effects going on now, but the the desktops all appear on the *inside* of the cube - very odd. Is there some setting I've accidentally tweaked? Where would I change that? Never mind, I found a setting for that in gconf-editor... Joe - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] making the community grow
jdd wrote: Rajko M wrote: Not enough people are active, and it will not be better after 10.1 is out. Then it comes 10.2, ... , 10.X . not completely right. any new version add to interest Interest yes, but all active people are busy, permanently. So we are on our own to solve how to attract more people to contribute, how to advertise existence of openSUSE, make people feel that their contributions are worth for opensuse.org. I added to the Tasks page. I did some formating edit to your contribution. If you agree, YaST is good example, but it is not alone, so it would be nice to reformulate paragraph to refer to in general that we need more documentation, and than list few examples. I think that we need to be better indexed in search motors. We need to be more usefull for the users. Agree, but search engines will index opensuse with time, and there is not much to do. It's good to say how one must download, install (and there is a lack versus install), bugfix, fine tune it's SUSE Linux. Fine tune is still white zone on the map, but that is not only SUSE problem. It is computer operating system problem :-( But people don't install SUSE Linux to play with it (not only :-). They install it to _work_ with it. And we try to attract Windows users, so we need doc to explain how to make things. I already wrote french doc about *dealing with a photo collection *dealing with video tape editing *installing a small house Linux server You begun a GIMP use page (if I understand well) I can call that playing with GIMP, but the purpose is right what you described. Most of the users are not developers, and like to have working computer, some application(s) and to build from there. The future of distribution building is development, as it is now, and *usage*. Explain what can be done, define what is your distribution capable for, and what it is not. Don't let someone else define what computer should do and than try to catch up. I can write in english but I'm pretty short to translate from french to english. So feel free to do so if you can and if you think it's usefull. Sorry Jean. My bad. I can understand few languages, write somehow in fewer, but French I can understand very little and then only if the text is rich in words based in Latin. I used to call them international words :-) We need whitepapers, we need all sort of things that make openSUSE valuable :-) Agree. That would be the problem I have in mind talking about opensuse.org site design. It is wiki, but it has to be organized, and that will never be reached with one man band. When you said we need all sorts of things showed where is the problem. One man can't think of all things that might be needed. We have to begin somewhere with specific tasks that have name. Are they important or not, let time decide. Mine would be to play with graphic, and try to get someone on board. we also need time :-))) but this will have jdd Time. The only time I can have is The Time (if I pay subscription). -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] making the community grow
Rajko M wrote: Majority asking for forum... don't start the thread again. I don't like forum. I'm on the french Alionet forum because I want to make opensuse known, but I think the discussion ended in favor of forum and I accept that. but this was not done. I remember having waited 6 month the french wiki. Now We, french, are 6 month late :-( and when the wiki come I was nearly leaving... and could have leave. Voluntieers are always busy people. they can be busy with us if we give them what they need, or for completely different things if not. I remember old times at university. We where using gestetner to copy courses. We had to put the sheets of papers on a table and turn around taking a sheet at a time, to make the book. anytime a student come to see us we said go help, turn with us :-) and we had hundreds of companions. Then with buy a machine to make the collection. one year off we have less than ten people working. we didn't retain the volunteers. So we need to identify * things to make the people come at least once * small jobs, the easier the better that anybody can do. right now I can see some of these jobs: * bug hunting. bugzilla is a little intimidating. the main problem is that it's entirely in english. should it be possible to have the bugzilla screens translated? I know one must understand a little english to help, but I had myself quite difficulties to go there the first time. may be we should open a bug report wiki page, at least on non_english wikis? * wiki typo editing: here the login process is a brake. May be a forum could be a better entry point for beginners * categorisation : we need really to better document this jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] making the community grow
So we need to identify * things to make the people come at least once * small jobs, the easier the better that anybody can do. right now I can see some of these jobs: * bug hunting. bugzilla is a little intimidating. the main problem is that it's entirely in english. should it be possible to have the bugzilla screens translated? I know one must understand a little english to help, but I had myself quite difficulties to go there the first time. may be we should open a bug report wiki page, at least on non_english wikis? * wiki typo editing: here the login process is a brake. May be a forum could be a better entry point for beginners * categorisation : we need really to better document this Yes, I think it would be good to have either wikis or forums for newbies for bug-reporting. For both english and non-english groups. And more experienced community users - perhaps those wiki/forum leaders should resubmit bugs to bugzilla. Of course this is only possible, if there are enough volunteers willing to resubmit english-newbie and nonenglish bugs to professional bugzilla language.
[opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
jdd wrote: * bug hunting. bugzilla is a little intimidating. the main problem is that it's entirely in english. should it be possible to have the bugzilla screens translated? I know one must understand a little english to help, but I had myself quite difficulties to go there the first time. If a reporter does not communicate well enough in English to exchange information with the support-person on the other side, I don't think having the bugzilla interface in the local language will help. /Per Jessen, Zürich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
If a reporter does not communicate well enough in English to exchange information with the support-person on the other side, I don't think having the bugzilla interface in the local language will help. I agree, but it still can be done through non-english (say french) wiki - while (the french) wiki leader fills the bugs in the english bugzilla.
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
Alexey Eremenko wrote: If a reporter does not communicate well enough in English to exchange information with the support-person on the other side, I don't think having the bugzilla interface in the local language will help. I agree, but it still can be done through non-english (say french) wiki - while (the french) wiki leader fills the bugs in the english bugzilla. So you would have the wiki-leader of language wiki translate back and forth whenever there is an update to a report? I think that is asking a lot of the wiki lead. As for bugzilla itself, there are already local language versions available: http://www.bugzilla.org/download/#localizations /Per Jessen, Zürich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Saturday 22 April 2006 07:17, Alexey Eremenko wrote: Localised versions of bugzilla are useless - because most community Novell developers speak english, and perhaps one additional language. But other developers won't be able to work on the same bug, unless it's described in English. The Peer review process described on The Cathedral The Bazaar only works if there is one common language. My primary-language is *not* English, but I perfectly understand the need for a common language -both- for development and for everyday life. And if that common language happens to be English - then alright. Bugs written in non-english won't be resolved until somebody translates them. Maybe since SUSE was German - it would be possible to make German bugzilla (as there are plenty of SUSE German developers)- but this trick will not work for other languages. For other languages - having a community leader (wiki or forum) as a translator is the only way to go. Besides, Google has very effective language translation tools. After you select your 'from' and 'to' languages, you enter the page to be translated. You can even navigate in the translated pages. Pretty cool stuff if you haven't tried it before. regards, Carl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 09:03:43AM -0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote: If a reporter does not communicate well enough in English to exchange information with the support-person on the other side, I don't think having the bugzilla interface in the local language will help. I agree, but it still can be done through non-english (say french) wiki - while (the french) wiki leader fills the bugs in the english bugzilla. Then a wikipage explaining what is what might be more interesting. A French (or any other language) bugzilla will confuse users. They will the be submitting bugs in their native language and these then will be ignored or there needs to be asked to translate them. Living in Belgium and having worked for many international companies, I can tell you that having one language for something like this with some people not being able to participate is better then having more people participate, be an even higher percentage not being able to understand what the others are talking about. In numbers: Say there are 100 people in each group and 50% speaks Enlish as well. German, French and Spanish people. If you do it in English, you have 150 people who can communicate and solve problems. If you do each his or her own language, you only have 100 people you can work with. Yes, that is an extremely simplified example. Also do not forget that there are many, many more then just 3 languages. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Alexey Eremenko wrote: Bugs written in non-english won't be resolved until somebody translates them. Maybe since SUSE was German - it would be possible to make German bugzilla (as there are plenty of SUSE German developers)- but this trick will not work for other languages. Having non-english bugs in bugzilla renders them virtually useless, since only a very limited number of people (depending on $language) will be able to handle those bugs. Moreover finding duplicates, classifing bugs, collaborating on bugs and much more will be impossible. Apart from that, translating back and forth with a $wiki_leader won't scale well, I guess. Regards Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 09:17:56AM -0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote: Maybe since SUSE was German - it would be possible to make German bugzilla (as there are plenty of SUSE German developers)- but this trick will not work for other languages. Then only German speaking people would be able to file bugs or give feedback on those particular bugs. What will happen is that there will be a German and an English bug. You can't have them as duplicate, because then either group would not understand it. Having just one language is the best of the worst. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
Apart from that, translating back and forth with a $wiki_leader won't scale well, I guess. True, this will work with few bugs - and won't scale well - but there is no other option I know of. 1) You said about Google Translation service ? Can you give me a link ? 2) How many languages are supported ? 3) How good the translation is ?
Re: [opensuse] making the community grow
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Christian Boltz wrote: Am Freitag, 21. April 2006 14:19 schrieb houghi: To realy know if more people are helping out, it would be nice to see some pre- and post-openSUSE bugzilla numbers. Quoting AJ's mail in opensuse-announce (schedule update) from thursday: Thank you all for your support for SUSE Linux 10.1, with this version we received for the first time more feedback from the community than from engineers inside Novell I'd say this is quite impressing ;-) It definitely is! AJ: Can you please add some more statistics? I'll try to anser this question with some rough numbers rates. Once 10.1 is out, we will hopefully have the time to dig into bugzilla and come up with some real numbers. - what percentage of bug reports came from the community for 10.0? IIRC we had some 1/3 communtiy to 2/3 Novell / SUSE repored bugs for 10.0. This has changed for 10.1, where we approximately have the same numbers in reverse. - what percentage of bug reports for 10.1 came from the old [1] beta testers? (I don't want to split the community into old and new - I'm just interested in the numbers ;-) The 1/3 of community reported bugs was distributed into 1/3 new and 2/3 old, if I rember correctly -- but I'd have to go and check those numbers again. Hints how I can query this on myself are also welcome - especially, I could not find a search option for reporter is member of group XY :-( It's not that easy to gather those numbers from bugzilla -- what I did some month ago was downloading csv formated exports from bugzilla queries with a lot of different collums turned on and then parsing those with a spcial script. Regards Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Alexey Eremenko wrote: 1) You said about Google Translation service ? Can you give me a link ? Actually I didn't, but here is the link: http://www.google.com/language_tools 2) How many languages are supported ? No clue. 3) How good the translation is ? If you are imaginative, you should be able to get the idea of what the original text content ;) IMO this isn't an option for bugzilla, as the error ratio and the additional overhead won't scale as well. Regards Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
2) How many languages are supported ? No clue. Unfortunately only 8 languages are support. (with English this totals 9). That's too bad...
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Saturday 22 April 2006 07:50, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Apart from that, translating back and forth with a $wiki_leader won't
scale well, I guess.
True, this will work with few bugs - and won't scale well - but there
is no other option I know of.
1) You said about Google Translation service ? Can you give me a link ?
2) How many languages are supported ?
3) How good the translation is ?
Link: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
The 'en' is for English... maybe try 'fr' for French or 'sp' ('es'?) for
Espanol?
I browsed through an entire Japanese site and many related links using this
feature and the translation was decent enough that I had no problem
understanding what was going on.
Carl
-
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Re: [opensuse] bug fix support by community
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Henne Vogelsang wrote: Quote from http://en.opensuse.org/Tasks Documentation * Document the new media handling and alternatives (autofs, ivman) in the SDB. * Document libzypp/zmd/rug on the Libzypp page. Libzypp contains some information, but rug is only documented by example, there's no wiki page for rug. zen-updater, zen-remover and zen-installer seem to be undocumented. If you are doing this coordinate in bug #163279 please. Ive just added * Document the rpm-md+ format we use in the 10.1 update directory. Please ask on the factory mailinglist if you have any questions about it. Thanks -- at the moment this is still kind of a moving target ;( I'd actually want to avoid having someone reverse engineer the format now, because my hope is that we get some decent documentation on the format and its semantics, from the people that worked on this stuff. Regards Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Saturday 22 April 2006 07:59, Alexey Eremenko wrote: 2) How many languages are supported ? No clue. Unfortunately only 8 languages are support. (with English this totals 9). That's too bad... Give it about a year ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
Carl Hartung schrieb: Besides, Google has very effective language translation tools. After you select your 'from' and 'to' languages, you enter the page to be translated. You can even navigate in the translated pages. Pretty cool stuff if you haven't tried it before. Maybe. In my experience, any machine translation will corrupt the original meaning so much that nobody will be able to understand it. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
On Saturday 22 April 2006 08:21, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: Maybe. In my experience, any machine translation will corrupt the original meaning so much that nobody will be able to understand it. When did you last use Google language tools to study a problem like this? I often use Google to research error messages and, quite often, find relevant links to non-English pages. I open those pages using Google language tools and can usually figure out enough of what I need ... not always, of course, but usually. regards, Carl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
Carl Hartung schrieb: On Saturday 22 April 2006 08:21, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: Maybe. In my experience, any machine translation will corrupt the original meaning so much that nobody will be able to understand it. When did you last use Google language tools to study a problem like this? A few minutes before sending my mail. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
On Saturday 22 April 2006 08:38, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: A few minutes before sending my mail. For the first time? ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] gnuplot is it working on 10.1?
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 03:04:38PM +0200, Richard Bos wrote: Due to this article http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/11/2112243 about CD freshness I installed gnuplot. But it does not appear to work. Am I doing something wrong, or is it does plain broken?? You are doing something wrong. on101:/usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo gnuplot /usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo/battery.dat gnuplot 50.00 0.036990 2.50 0.007039 ^ /usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo/battery.dat, line 4: invalid command The 4th line in the data file is just the 1st datafile: demo head /usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo/battery.dat # # $Id: battery.dat,v 1.1.1.1 1998/04/15 19:16:41 lhecking Exp $ # 50.00 0.036990 2.50 0.007039 and the --help says: demo gnuplot --help Usage: gnuplot [OPTION]... [FILE] [FILE] is a gnuplot file. Not any random file. Looks to me it is broken Looks wrong to you. Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. pgpEbLAbul8bM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse] gnuplot is it working on 10.1?
Richard Bos wrote: Due to this article http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/11/2112243 about CD freshness I installed gnuplot. But it does not appear to work. Am I doing something wrong, or is it does plain broken?? on101:/usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo gnuplot /usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo/battery.dat gnuplot 50.00 0.036990 2.50 0.007039 ^ /usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo/battery.dat, line 4: invalid command The 4th line in the data file is just the 1st datafile: demo head /usr/share/doc/packages/gnuplot/demo/battery.dat # # $Id: battery.dat,v 1.1.1.1 1998/04/15 19:16:41 lhecking Exp $ # 50.00 0.036990 2.50 0.007039 and the --help says: demo gnuplot --help Usage: gnuplot [OPTION]... [FILE] Looks to me it is broken I have no 10.1, but I use gnuplot all the time on 10.0, and I think it's not broken according to your log. battery.dat is a data file, containing columns of floating point values - it is not a command file with gnuplot commands. However, the FILE in gnuplot [OPTION]... [FILE] should be a command file. Conclusion: you've used gnuplot the wrong way. You can try to start gnuplot (without any further options) in the demo directory, then use the following command at the gnuplot prompt: plot 'battery.dat' u 1:2 w l or something like that. This will plot column 2 vs. column 1 (with lines). Gnuplot has a manual as well as internal help (try help at the gnuplot prompt). You should read that first before complaining about broken software. Cheers, Th. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 02:21:01PM +0200, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: Carl Hartung schrieb: Besides, Google has very effective language translation tools. After you select your 'from' and 'to' languages, you enter the page to be translated. You can even navigate in the translated pages. Pretty cool stuff if you haven't tried it before. Maybe. In my experience, any machine translation will corrupt the original meaning so much that nobody will be able to understand it. If you understand the subject, google (Or the original, babelfish) is enough to get an idea what people are talking about. I have used Babelfish for a couple of years now and it does this great. I would not use it the other way around. http://babelfish.altavista.com is the original. Google is just a rip-off. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating. (was: making the community grow)
On Saturday 22 April 2006 09:35, houghi wrote: http://babelfish.altavista.com has 12. Thanks, Houghi! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] bugzilla enhancement
I see in the mailing list that some problem arise with bugzilla. myself, I'm often blocked by not knowing how to answer a question. So I think bugzilla screens should be split vertically like Yast screens are, with a help part. What kind of bug for what kind of component, for example. and with a default option. It's probably better to have a bug qualified default than qualified in a wrong category. When somebody wants to give several attachments and a comment, it's not obvious how to do this. It seems that if you fill a comment then go to attachments, the comment is lost after need info, the reassignment should be made much more visible, I forgot it all the time :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
Carl Hartung wrote: On Saturday 22 April 2006 08:38, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: A few minutes before sending my mail. For the first time? ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carl it works for figure out type of messages, but bug report should be precise, and even then it is not easy to figure out where to start. -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
Alexey Eremenko wrote: So except for wiki leader back and forth translations it will no go. A wiki leader can actually translate tens of bugs effectively - maybe a hundred (small bugs) - but not scale to thousands. Anyways - this is the most effective thing for now. Now to solve small problem. Who is the wiki leader? I'm not aware of any that are assigned or volunteer this :-) You touched a weak point of this group. We still have no organization with assigned or voluntarily accepted tasks. No one can say ask Joe how it is going in his area. Nobody is owner of anything and can take pride in accomplished work, and without that we'll score some points on enthusiasm, but not that much as we can. I agree with general idea to have person(s) that will look in forums and newsgroups for problem reports, questions etc, and take initiative to filter out true bugs from hardware problems, user (in)experience etc. Than tell user that they reported the bug and if necessary ask for more details. Apropos bug report. A lot of users know that they have a problem, not that it is a called bug and that it is possible to file something called bug report. How many of them have ever heard about bugzilla? And all that users are valuable source of information. -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 10:41:17AM -0500, Rajko M wrote: You touched a weak point of this group. We still have no organization with assigned or voluntarily accepted tasks. No one can say ask Joe how it is going in his area. Nobody is owner of anything and can take pride in accomplished work, and without that we'll score some points on enthusiasm, but not that much as we can. So look at http://en.opensuse.org/Tasks and assign yourself to do whatever you like. People are not apointed, people must step up. When nobody steps up, nothing will be done. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Zope 2.9.2 Installation Problem
Yo everybody I'm installing Zope 2.9.2 on 10.1 RC1. 10.1 has the correct version of python 2.4.2. but the zope make install script fails. My investigation shows it does not like the OpenSuse python configuration, specifically I need to turn off the python disutils.cfg which I did it with following command: mv /usr/lib64/python2.4/distutils/distutils.cfg /usr/lib64/python2.4/distutils/distutils.cfg.save Then zope installs and works no problem the distutils.cfg file contains: [install] prefix=/usr/local To be honest I'm not sure of the what/why/when of this. can anyone explain to me what effect the renaming of the file has? and while you are at it, maybe the idea behind setting it up so in SUSE? Jerry Westrick - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Zope 2.9.2 Installation Problem
On Saturday 22 April 2006 20:32, Marcus Rueckert wrote: On 2006-04-22 20:26:04 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote: To be honest I'm not sure of the what/why/when of this. can anyone explain to me what effect the renaming of the file has? and while you are at it, maybe the idea behind setting it up so in SUSE? http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-packaging/2006-Apr/0003.html hope this helps darix Yep, that is just about what I expected, but the zope people seams to have a problem with the usage of the prefix variables and such They installation uses the home variable which is then rejected by the python setup stuff as Cannot not specify both prefix and home! Of course they are very sticky on using a python compiled from scratch, and refuse any discusions on using a Distro's python The way they say Distro makes it sound like a word... Don't get me wrong I really like Zope2, and I'm really gratefull for all the effort and time the've put in to, but I really don't want to have to support and debug 2 identical pythons: one for programming in zope, and one for programming out of zope... Okay after I've installed the python, I now rename the distuls.cfg back? Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Zope 2.9.2 Installation Problem
On 2006-04-22 21:02:54 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote: Yep, that is just about what I expected, but the zope people seams to have a problem with the usage of the prefix variables and such They installation uses the home variable which is then rejected by the python setup stuff as Cannot not specify both prefix and home! Of course they are very sticky on using a python compiled from scratch, and refuse any discusions on using a Distro's python The way they say Distro makes it sound like a word... Don't get me wrong I really like Zope2, and I'm really gratefull for all the effort and time the've put in to, but I really don't want to have to support and debug 2 identical pythons: one for programming in zope, and one for programming out of zope... Okay after I've installed the python, I now rename the distuls.cfg back? maybe look at he zope rpms from suse. maybe those give you an hint how to install your zope. maybe you can provide 2.9 rpms for the community?:) darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: bugzilla is a little intimidating.
houghi wrote: On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 10:41:17AM -0500, Rajko M wrote: You touched a weak point of this group. We still have no organization with assigned or voluntarily accepted tasks. No one can say ask Joe how it is going in his area. Nobody is owner of anything and can take pride in accomplished work, and without that we'll score some points on enthusiasm, but not that much as we can. So look at http://en.opensuse.org/Tasks and assign yourself to do whatever you like. People are not apointed, people must step up. When nobody steps up, nothing will be done. houghi Assigned looks in far future where it will be honor to be project leader on opensuse.org, for now volunteers wanted :-) And, I already do mine playing around with a graphic. -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] RC3 delta's rc1 or rc2?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On my test machine I have run out of disk space. I need to delete either the rc1 iso or the rc2 iso. What/which iso should I keep for the rc3 delta-iso's? Thanks, - -- Boyd Gerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQFESo69VtBjDid73eYRAuZuAJ9llxEWnJo08hg6GYrZz9/6M0F3RACfTf2x 8Xr+J8G9jOn6VEs5Gnridc4= =lz1Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Zope 2.9.2 Installation Problem
On Saturday 22 April 2006 21:14, Marcus Rueckert wrote: On 2006-04-22 21:02:54 +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote: maybe look at he zope rpms from suse. maybe those give you an hint how to install your zope. maybe you can provide 2.9 rpms for the community?:) darix Tempting Darix, it's tempting... But as usual I'm short on time, and I would need quite a bit to learn RPM, Source RPM's, etc... But someday, when I do have some, I'd rather build SUSE-Firewall-3 based on fwbuilder... maybe I can steal some time next month, to learn some of RPM's and How-to build SUSE RPM's Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Prb with 10.0 applydeltaiso for SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1_RC2-Addon-BiArch.delta.iso
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have been unable to create the SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-Addon-BiArch.delta.iso using... $ applydeltaiso rc1/SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1-Addon-BiArch.iso rc2/non-oss/SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC1_RC2-Addon-BiArch.delta.iso rc2/iso/SUSE-Linux-10.1-RC2-Addon-BiArch.iso I created a bug report. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=168623 Thanks, - -- Boyd Gerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQFEStBrVtBjDid73eYRAsKrAJ45+fCggVyjg1UfnRx9j5ZAaksCHQCgjYO3 vPvGKqeQ6UDdXBGJ49LE75U= =m0RC -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-wiki] automatic login
login on the wiki is still the primary brake against users. I don't really understand how it works. of course I must login once :-) after that I need to be active not to be unlogged. But the non-activity time is short. sometimes so short I haven't time to end the page I write. and the login question happen to make me lose a page after a quite long time (an hour or so, if I try to connect, I'm connected without passwd. How many times exactly? Would it be possible to use cookies to make this automatic along 2/3 days? to be practical, Mozilla gives me a passwd menu, so login is easy, but have no spellchecker (at least no installed) and konqueror have a spellchecker, but asks me to type the pass each time. if not too rough for secirity reason, automatic login should be quite a good thing. (it's the case on the french Alionet forum, I have never to type a passwd) thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-wiki] site map
jdd wrote: Lyle Greg Lisle wrote: A site map would be real nice, but unless it could be generated automagically, it would take way too much time to keep up with changes. My guess is we need to work with the category structure. In particular, we need to make it hierarchical. Keep the number of top categories below 20. That would make finding things a lot easier. In addition, it would be nice if descriptions could be placed on the 'special' pages, including 'categories'. true. categories are very powerfull thing, must be better documented (on our wiki, for our users). I made this: http://fr.opensuse.org/Liste_des_catégories to display categories with they page content, but it needs to be done by hand. learning the category/sub category is good, browsing the pages to make then into categories also. I noticed on wikipedia that I couldn't create a new page without it being open to add category nearly on the fly (as fast as I even lost some edit text :-) of course this mean special categorizer are working :-) really I think that when the french wiki will be up to date enough I will spend most of my time on this, but for now there are more urgent works :-) jdd Looking at your list, and a list I have been messing with, I propose the following top Categories with some subs. One of the beautiful characteristics of hypertext is that we don't have to decide which category a page goes into. Applications What's available (equivalents) Web apps Office apps Games Graphics GUIs Community OpenSUSE Teams Users Meetings News Promotion Development Algorithms Protocols Drivers Usability Projects Virtualization Documentation Documentation Standards Wiki Graphics for Docs Hardware Compatibility Howtos Release Information (Implementations?) Support Data Base Wishlists and maybe Translations --- L Greg Lisle
