[opensuse] Re: New desktop
Doug McGarrett wrote: Fully agreed Although I confess being a silent PC geek and there is hardly anything that nerves me more than noisy PCs that I must work with for hours , this does not apply to keyboards. This is typed on a Model M style keyboard with 122 keys that I got from ebay for 10€. Looks like this http://www.shoppalstores.com/ibmmodelm/image//2002021-004.jpg The pictured keyboard is apparently a foreign version. I'm using 2 model Ms on my computers, and all the keys work with Linux or Windows, except probably the Scroll Lock, Print Screen, and Pause keys that I've never seen work on anything. My American model M's do not have any keys left of the Tab, Caps- Lock, Shift, Ctrl. And the bottom left alpha key is Z. Well, with Model M interchangeable keycaps foreign versions do not matter so much, you can always replace the keycaps with what is correct for your language. Mine is actually a 122 Keys Model (much larger and heavier) with 24 Functionkeys that was meant to be used with an AS/400 Console. And this is the reason, not all Keys generate a keycode on a PC which you can then (re)map according to your needs. Eberhard --doug, wa2say Unfortunately not all keys work with a PC, but all I need and much more is there. This one is also suitable for self-defence and in case you need a hammer but do not one, you do not need to buy one. They are great, they are even greater when your PC is silent and they are greatest when there is no one else in the room who is constantly complaining about your IBM klicky-keyboard noise. ;-) Lately I found a solution to the latter problem and bought my wife another Model M. Now we are both on Klickey-Keyboard, she never wants to use anything else keyboardwise and most important, we are in love, once again. ;-)) regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: New desktop
Doug McGarrett wrote: On Wednesday 08 August 2007 05:03, Eberhard Roloff wrote: Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Hi One missing thing in your list imho: How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? Anyone has any input to this? Any sites that can help me with the configuration, any do-it-yourself sites? As regards silence, the old IBM keyboards are absolutely the most wonderful and loud keyboards in existance. Some electronics/computer/ham-radio fleamarkets have these. If noise is no object, get one! They seem to last forever. No Windows keys, but you probably wouldn't care. --doug, wa2say Fully agreed Although I confess being a silent PC geek and there is hardly anything that nerves me more than noisy PCs that I must work with for hours , this does not apply to keyboards. This is typed on a Model M style keyboard with 122 keys that I got from ebay for 10€. Looks like this http://www.shoppalstores.com/ibmmodelm/image//2002021-004.jpg Unfortunately not all keys work with a PC, but all I need and much more is there. This one is also suitable for self-defence and in case you need a hammer but do not one, you do not need to buy one. They are great, they are even greater when your PC is silent and they are greatest when there is no one else in the room who is constantly complaining about your IBM klicky-keyboard noise. ;-) Lately I found a solution to the latter problem and bought my wife another Model M. Now we are both on Klickey-Keyboard, she never wants to use anything else keyboardwise and most important, we are in love, once again. ;-)) regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
On Thursday 09 August 2007 03:48, Eberhard Roloff wrote: Doug McGarrett wrote: On Wednesday 08 August 2007 05:03, Eberhard Roloff wrote: Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Hi One missing thing in your list imho: How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? Anyone has any input to this? Any sites that can help me with the configuration, any do-it-yourself sites? As regards silence, the old IBM keyboards are absolutely the most wonderful and loud keyboards in existance. Some electronics/computer/ham-radio fleamarkets have these. If noise is no object, get one! They seem to last forever. No Windows keys, but you probably wouldn't care. --doug, wa2say Fully agreed Although I confess being a silent PC geek and there is hardly anything that nerves me more than noisy PCs that I must work with for hours , this does not apply to keyboards. This is typed on a Model M style keyboard with 122 keys that I got from ebay for 10â¬. Looks like this http://www.shoppalstores.com/ibmmodelm/image//2002021-004.jpg The pictured keyboard is apparently a foreign version. I'm using 2 model Ms on my computers, and all the keys work with Linux or Windows, except probably the Scroll Lock, Print Screen, and Pause keys that I've never seen work on anything. My American model M's do not have any keys left of the Tab, Caps- Lock, Shift, Ctrl. And the bottom left alpha key is Z. --doug, wa2say Unfortunately not all keys work with a PC, but all I need and much more is there. This one is also suitable for self-defence and in case you need a hammer but do not one, you do not need to buy one. They are great, they are even greater when your PC is silent and they are greatest when there is no one else in the room who is constantly complaining about your IBM klicky-keyboard noise. ;-) Lately I found a solution to the latter problem and bought my wife another Model M. Now we are both on Klickey-Keyboard, she never wants to use anything else keyboardwise and most important, we are in love, once again. ;-)) regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: New desktop
Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Hi It's time to find me a new machine for home office and related work. But what is the best choice right now? It's a tough one. I need to balance the requirements and make choices like - 32 or 64? If you are buying secondhand or very low down, this question could be discussed, otherwise 64bit is what you get. - Motherboard Depends on your needs. I would suggest to buy one that is already on the market for a few monthes and thus, you do not get the exact latest and greatest but rather get information about bugs, performance and Linux compatibility - Disks That depends on your needs in regard to size and sound intensity - Graphics adapter For Linux, I woulkd currently choose Nvidia. The model depends on your needs - Low consumption vs performance Can't comment on this one, my knowledge is not sufficent. One missing thing in your list imho: How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? Anyone has any input to this? Any sites that can help me with the configuration, any do-it-yourself sites? Or irc channels where this is discussed? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
If you are buying secondhand or very low down, this question could be discussed, otherwise 64bit is what you get. Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? : How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? That is very important, agreed. -- Med venlig hilsen Kaare Rasmussen, Jasonic Jasonic Telefon: +45 3816 2582 Nordre Fasanvej 12 2000 Frederiksberg Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
If you are buying secondhand or very low down, this question could be discussed, otherwise 64bit is what you get. Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? It depends on how you define problems. You can run a complete 32bit install of openSUSE on a 64 bit system and it works without any issues. You can also run a complete 64 bit install of openSUSE... but... this may be where you have heard of problems. Certain plugins and media codecs are only available in 32 bit. This means you have to install and run some 32 bit libraries and applications if you are running a 64 bit install. It is possible, and depending on your needs may or may not be a problem for you. There is no harm (and barely any significant performance difference for most general computer use in my experience) to install a 32bit Linux install on a 64 bit computer... and then no issues with 32bit codecs, and certain 32bit binary drivers that and even applications you may want to use. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
On 8/8/07, Clayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are buying secondhand or very low down, this question could be discussed, otherwise 64bit is what you get. Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? It depends on how you define problems. You can run a complete 32bit install of openSUSE on a 64 bit system and it works without any issues. You can also run a complete 64 bit install of openSUSE... but... this may be where you have heard of problems. Certain plugins and media codecs are only available in 32 bit. This means you have to install and run some 32 bit libraries and applications if you are running a 64 bit install. It is possible, and depending on your needs may or may not be a problem for you. There is no harm (and barely any significant performance difference for most general computer use in my experience) to install a 32bit Linux install on a 64 bit computer... and then no issues with 32bit codecs, and certain 32bit binary drivers that and even applications you may want to use. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And in fact, in my experience, just the added pain and hassle of trying to work out how to get the 32-bit plugins to work on a 64-bit install just added to my decision that 32-bit is the way to go. I never noticed any particular application (or even the underlying OS) running any faster as 64-bit (and believe me, I was trying to do so in order to justify the pain of getting everything running correctly). -- Casey Stamper http://www.stampersite.com/wordpress -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: New desktop
Kaare Rasmussen wrote: If you are buying secondhand or very low down, this question could be discussed, otherwise 64bit is what you get. Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? : Just to clarify: I understood the OP's question to be about the hardware that he will buy to build his desktop from. In regard to software, imho for a desktop it does not matter. I had good experiences with both Lin 32bit and Lin 64bit on 64bit hardware. However my experience with win 64bit software will make me recommend win32bit software for 64bit hardware. But: I never had the privilege to test win 64bit server software. How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? That is very important, agreed. Imho, for a desktop nowadays, it comes very close to be the most important consideration since it is the machine's noisiness that either supports or distracts my mental attention. kind regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
Imho, for a desktop nowadays, it comes very close to be the most important consideration since it is the machine's noisiness that either supports or distracts my mental attention. Doesn't it (mostly) come down to CPU heat production? (And btw. which 64 bit CPU is using least power)? -- Med venlig hilsen Kaare Rasmussen, Jasonic Jasonic Telefon: +45 3816 2582 Nordre Fasanvej 12 2000 Frederiksberg Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
* Kaare Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [08-08-07 05:15]: If you are buying secondhand or very low down, this question could be discussed, otherwise 64bit is what you get. Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? Yes, but there are 32-bit versions of FireFox and flash that work fine on the x86_64 systems. I use 32-bit FireFox on my x86_64 system w/o a problem. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Imho, for a desktop nowadays, it comes very close to be the most important consideration since it is the machine's noisiness that either supports or distracts my mental attention. Doesn't it (mostly) come down to CPU heat production? (And btw. which 64 bit CPU is using least power)? The size of the case will affect fan requirements. A small case will require more fans and large fans can be quieter for the same airflow. Also, the choise of disk drives can affect noise levels too. Even case colour can make a difference. A black case will radiate more heat, reducing the load on the fans. Since on some systems fans are controlled by temperature, this will reduce noise. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/8/07, Patrick Shanahan wrote: Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? Yes, but there are 32-bit versions of FireFox and flash that work fine on the x86_64 systems. I use 32-bit FireFox on my x86_64 system w/o a problem. Can you elaborate a little more on this? I just recently installed 10.2 64-bit on a Sun Ultra 40 (dual amd 246 chips). I can install the i586 version of firefox, but it can't get it to talk to the network at all. It's as if I don't even have a plumbed ethernet interface. So firefox will run, but all attempts at connecting to the internet fail. Reinstall the 64-bit version of firefox, and I can browse no problem. - -- Andy Harrison public key: 0x67518262 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFGueUsNTm8fWdRgmIRAh19AJ4i/6OWc/mlggyXOEqDl0aFxNZtawCg9tX+ JleaqwRGr7sHU4DTa1dB+ag= =P5ii -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
* Andy Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] [08-08-07 11:50]: On 8/8/07, Patrick Shanahan wrote: Yes, but there are 32-bit versions of FireFox and flash that work fine on the x86_64 systems. I use 32-bit FireFox on my x86_64 system w/o a problem. Can you elaborate a little more on this? I just recently installed 10.2 64-bit on a Sun Ultra 40 (dual amd 246 chips). I can install the i586 version of firefox, but it can't get it to talk to the network at all. It's as if I don't even have a plumbed ethernet interface. So firefox will run, but all attempts at connecting to the internet fail. Reinstall the 64-bit version of firefox, and I can browse no problem. I have *no* idea :^( but the first place I would look is in the is the Preferences - Advanced - Network - Connection all I did was install the 32-bit edition originally from the iso, and updated regularly. I use smart and it automagically installs the correct additions/codex. 12:12 wahoo:~ smart query --installed MozillaFirefox *plug* *flash* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
Andy Harrison wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/8/07, Patrick Shanahan wrote: Aren't there still problems with some applications, plugins for Firefox, binary drivers for graphics adapters? Yes, but there are 32-bit versions of FireFox and flash that work fine on the x86_64 systems. I use 32-bit FireFox on my x86_64 system w/o a problem. Can you elaborate a little more on this? I just recently installed 10.2 64-bit on a Sun Ultra 40 (dual amd 246 chips). I can install the i586 version of firefox, but it can't get it to talk to the network at all. It's as if I don't even have a plumbed ethernet interface. So firefox will run, but all attempts at connecting to the internet fail. Reinstall the 64-bit version of firefox, and I can browse no problem. I have no such problem with the 32 bit versions of Firefox and Seamonkey on my 64 bit system. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/8/07, Patrick Shanahan wrote: I have *no* idea :^( but the first place I would look is in the is the Preferences - Advanced - Network - Connection all I did was install the 32-bit edition originally from the iso, and updated regularly. I use smart and it automagically installs the correct additions/codex. 12:12 wahoo:~ smart query --installed MozillaFirefox *plug* *flash* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I tried the i586 MozillaFirefox package again, no luck. I tried using tcpdump while using it and it doesn't even make a single attempt at a network connection. What other packages do you have are 32-bit? Do I have to install the 32-bit version of all of these? # smart query --installed '*ozilla*' [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- Andy Harrison public key: 0x67518262 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFGug1lNTm8fWdRgmIRAkNGAKD10rH7P6YKjg7o1s/rt8m3R71QKACfaPGH m+6phpVEs5NKSefM0qFKnOk= =D+g8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: New desktop
Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Imho, for a desktop nowadays, it comes very close to be the most important consideration since it is the machine's noisiness that either supports or distracts my mental attention. Doesn't it (mostly) come down to CPU heat production? (And btw. which 64 bit CPU is using least power)? CPU heat production: This is only part of the problem and generally the easiest one to rectify by buying a good cpu cooler with a very large (and therefore slow and quiet) fan.. The other major noise source is usually your GPU(s) and there is also your powersupply-fan(s) and eventually your harddisk(s) and optical drive(s), if you are unlucky you may also find one case fan or more. CPU power consumption From hardware magazines I think I understand that AMD currently only has a slight power consumption advantage when the machine is idle. At any other machine state, Intel consumes less. Well, imho it is debatable, whether a desktop does spend by far most of its life idling around. At the same time, AMD currently cannot beat Intel performancewise. Now, as I understand it, within a given CPU brand the lowest model usually consumes the least power and there are special versions of cpus around that consume even less. For me privately, I always go for AMD nevertheless since they are cheaper and performance is not an issue for me these days, since all of them (Intel and AMD) have far more horsepower than I can possibly use.. From my perspective, A good start for reading on the subject could be this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/ Should you be able to read and understand german, I would definitely recommend www.silenthardware.de kind regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: New desktop
Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Imho, for a desktop nowadays, it comes very close to be the most important consideration since it is the machine's noisiness that either supports or distracts my mental attention. Doesn't it (mostly) come down to CPU heat production? (And btw. which 64 bit CPU is using least power)? CPU heat production: This is only part of the problem and generally the easiest one to rectify. The other major noise source is usually your GPU(s) and there is also your powersupply-fan(s) and eventually your harddisk(s) and optical drive(s) CPU power consumption From hardware magazines I think I understand that AMD currently only has a slight power consumption advantage when the machine is idle. At any other machine state, Intel consumes less. Well, imho it is debatable, whether a desktop does spend by far most of its life idling around. At the same time, AMD currently cannot beat Intel performancewise. Now, as I understand it, within a range the lowest model usually consumes the least power and there are special versions of cpus around that consume even less. For me privately, I always go for AMD nevertheless since they are cheaper and performance is not an issue for me these days, since all of them have far more horsepower than I can possibly use.. From my perspective, A good reading on the subject could be this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/ If you speak german, I would definitely recommend silenthardware.de kind regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
On Wednesday 08 August 2007 05:03, Eberhard Roloff wrote: Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Hi One missing thing in your list imho: How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? Anyone has any input to this? Any sites that can help me with the configuration, any do-it-yourself sites? As regards silence, the old IBM keyboards are absolutely the most wonderful and loud keyboards in existance. Some electronics/computer/ham-radio fleamarkets have these. If noise is no object, get one! They seem to last forever. No Windows keys, but you probably wouldn't care. --doug, wa2say -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
Doug McGarrett wrote: On Wednesday 08 August 2007 05:03, Eberhard Roloff wrote: Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Hi One missing thing in your list imho: How silent will your computer need to be and what will you be able to spend for silence? Anyone has any input to this? Any sites that can help me with the configuration, any do-it-yourself sites? As regards silence, the old IBM keyboards are absolutely the most wonderful and loud keyboards in existance. Some electronics/computer/ham-radio fleamarkets have these. If noise is no object, get one! They seem to last forever. No Windows keys, but you probably wouldn't care. --doug, wa2say I bought some a few years ago, for $5 each. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
On Wednesday 08 August 2007 14:12, Eberhard Roloff wrote: ... From my perspective, A good start for reading on the subject could be this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/ Should you be able to read and understand german, I would definitely recommend www.silenthardware.de Also: http://www.noisemagic.de/ they are quite long on the market and have some basic information in English. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
On Wednesday 08 August 2007 17:47, James Knott wrote: ... I bought some a few years ago, for $5 each. Oh, please tell me where! There hasn't been a good keyboard since, as far as I can recall. Maybe I should spend more time at Weird Stuff (http://www.weirdstuff.com/)... RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: New desktop
As regards silence, the old IBM keyboards are absolutely the most wonderful and loud keyboards in existance. Some electronics/computer/ham-radio fleamarkets have these. If noise is no object, get one! They seem to last forever. No Windows keys, but you probably wouldn't care. I swear by my Cherry Linux Keyboard :-) http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/cymotion-line/cymotion-line_master_linux.htm The keys think and rattle in a nice traditional way. Ha. And... no Windows key.. they've replaced it with a nice penguin key. C -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
