Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
On Saturday 05 January 2008 09:11:08 Tom Patton wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: > > Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : > > > Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2008 jdd: > > >> did you try to remove the line yourself in the file or to load the > > >> module manually after booting? > > > > > > jdd, did you actually read my message? > > > > I see: > > > > I simply open a root console, and "modprobe bttv". Both cards then > > return to service...without having to go into YAST for anything. > > > > so this don't seems to be a stopper. if this IS a workaround it should > > be fine to note it in bugzilla, but I have no tv card to test it > > That was me with the modprobe bttv comment...then someone else pointed > out the blacklist issue. I have removed the lines, but have not had to > reboot yet to see if that fixed it. I agree, it is easily dealt with as > Dear Tom, I have rebooted since and my tv card was there. Until recently with 10.3 I had no reason to go to bugzilla. My visit because of the TV card was my first and certainly not my last. I have some other bugs plaging me in 10.3. With former versions I never had to go to bugzilla for help. The list was enough for all my problems. Hope the coming versions are better. Constant -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
On 01/05/2008 Tom Patton wrote: > >From what I see, I think this only occurred when choosing "unknown > card", and I suspect the majority of tv cards have been working fine > all > along. Otherwise, there would have been much more traffic here in the > forum. This particular thread is the only one I've noticed about the > issue, and my comment today to the bug was only the 6th vote in its > lifetime... > > As for black-listing, that certainly seems appropriate as a protective > measure, and was documented. In this instance, it seems to be benign, > but I can imagine other situations and devices which could cause > serious > problems. > > Whatever > > Tom in NM I've had a TV card since my very first day with Linux. Most of the time they are a major pain in the A___ to get working properly. I can be done though.Took me a long time to learn the tricks. It's just that a TV card is such a non-essential that I never bothered to do much bitching about them. Just worked my way through the process. If the card doesn't work I just turn on the regular TV. End of problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 21:20 +0100, Wolfgang Woehl wrote: > Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 Tom Patton: > > > I do not see this as a major issue, or one that fuels the MS war. > > People who cannot fiddle around in root shells will definitely get the > impression of a major issue going down when their supported and functional tv > card stops working after an online update. > > Is it really that hard to understand what advice like "Oh, just open a > terminal, become root, edit out some lines from /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist and > reload a kernel module" does to ordinary people? > > > I'm > > reasonably certain that the root cause will eventually be resolved, and > > THEY will remove the black-list sheriff ANYWAY. > > They will probably not because there are loads of devices that need to be > blacklisted, potentially. > > > Imagine the odds of even BEING ABLE TO WORK_AROUND in a MS system!!! > > Good luck with THAT chore, sir. I'm sure this WOULD have been a windoz > > show-stopper, with the only hope to wait 6 months for an update!!! Give > > me SuSE ANY DAY! > > 3 months and counting ... > https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=330109 > > The ubiquitous notion of linux geeks that their distributions are superior to > any other commercial OS would gain some decent weight through serious > bug-squashing. Mindlessly repeating it over and over does not make it any > truer. It just makes us a laughing stock really. > > Wolfgang You missed my point, I think, in that a usable system is easily restored by slight manual intervention. And an even-better suggestion was already posted in the bug. However, I have now added a new comment to the bug, and perhaps that will bring it back into focus. >From what I see, I think this only occurred when choosing "unknown card", and I suspect the majority of tv cards have been working fine all along. Otherwise, there would have been much more traffic here in the forum. This particular thread is the only one I've noticed about the issue, and my comment today to the bug was only the 6th vote in its lifetime... As for black-listing, that certainly seems appropriate as a protective measure, and was documented. In this instance, it seems to be benign, but I can imagine other situations and devices which could cause serious problems. Whatever Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 Tom Patton: > I do not see this as a major issue, or one that fuels the MS war. People who cannot fiddle around in root shells will definitely get the impression of a major issue going down when their supported and functional tv card stops working after an online update. Is it really that hard to understand what advice like "Oh, just open a terminal, become root, edit out some lines from /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist and reload a kernel module" does to ordinary people? > I'm > reasonably certain that the root cause will eventually be resolved, and > THEY will remove the black-list sheriff ANYWAY. They will probably not because there are loads of devices that need to be blacklisted, potentially. > Imagine the odds of even BEING ABLE TO WORK_AROUND in a MS system!!! > Good luck with THAT chore, sir. I'm sure this WOULD have been a windoz > show-stopper, with the only hope to wait 6 months for an update!!! Give > me SuSE ANY DAY! 3 months and counting ... https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=330109 The ubiquitous notion of linux geeks that their distributions are superior to any other commercial OS would gain some decent weight through serious bug-squashing. Mindlessly repeating it over and over does not make it any truer. It just makes us a laughing stock really. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 18:10 +0100, Wolfgang Woehl wrote: > Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 jdd: > > Tom Patton a écrit : > >> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: > jdd, Tom, pardon my french, but do you realize how braindead this is? Writing > a boot script to fix a confirmed and resolvable bug which is starting to grow > really old and smelly in the pipeline? > > Instead of doing the right thing and go bug and *help* the people that have > the ability and responsibility to fix the bugs they've introduced way too > many linux folks tend to happily spend hours of creating hapless and > embarrassing workarounds. > > I think that's the dark side of geek culture: For any given problem we rather > create 10 ridiculous kludges instead of come up with the one obvious solution > (fixing the original problem). > > The irony of this: Linux geeks are totally unaware of the FUD this creates > among non-geeks who want to get rid of windows because of microsoft's FUD. > > Wolfgang I agree with you to a point. I did not have a chance to look into why the bttv driver failed to load on reboot, and then I noticed the other report here with the same issue, and thence the black-list information. I had my own work-thru going, and it was VERY low priority at the time. (For one reason, this pc typically runs weeks at a time, unless there is a kernel update or a power outage.) Perhaps I miss-read the bug report, but it sounded as tho the pci system failed to identify some generic cards, and so they shot-gunned it with the black-listing to opt out of loading the driver mindlessly without user intervention. That seems very prudent to me. Over-ruling that decision by commenting out the black-list seems to work in MY situation, and I don't have to manually load the bttv driver. I do not see this as a major issue, or one that fuels the MS war.I'm reasonably certain that the root cause will eventually be resolved, and THEY will remove the black-list sheriff ANYWAY. Imagine the odds of even BEING ABLE TO WORK_AROUND in a MS system!!! Good luck with THAT chore, sir. I'm sure this WOULD have been a windoz show-stopper, with the only hope to wait 6 months for an update!!! Give me SuSE ANY DAY! Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : jdd, Tom, pardon my french, but do you realize how braindead this is? Writing a boot script to fix a confirmed and resolvable bug which is starting to grow really old and smelly in the pipeline? Instead of doing the right thing and go bug and *help* the people that have the ability and responsibility to fix the bugs they've introduced way too many linux folks tend to happily spend hours of creating hapless and embarrassing workarounds. please note that I'm not able to make any fix, but O can give workaround. This is a first and important step jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
Tom Patton a écrit : On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:37 +0100, jdd wrote: Tom Patton a écrit : On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2008 jdd: did you try to remove the line yourself in the file or to load the module manually after booting? it's possible to make a small script to do this automatically - may be add it in boot.local. some years ago I had similar problem with the connection, I needed to launch the conection a long time *after* boot was finished. I did create a "boot.final" script lauched at the appreopriate time (boot.local is executed very early in the process) jdd Well GOODIE! Commenting out the lines in the blacklist file WORKS. I just re-booted the system, and both 4-port video cards loaded (and in the proper order, BTW) fine. So not only did the bttv driver install properly...but 10.3 "persistent - naming" seems to work much better than 10.2 used to!!! I'm happy now. Tom in NM very nice!! could you add in bugzilla a link to this thread in lists.opensuse.org for others convenience? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 jdd: > Tom Patton a écrit : >> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: >>> I simply open a root console, and "modprobe bttv". Both cards then >>> return to service...without having to go into YAST for anything. >> I agree, it is easily dealt with as >> is...at least for me. I guess it would be a problem if I am not home >> and the power fails...the wife would not have root access to restore the >> camera system. I'll reboot tomorrow morning and advise if it then >> auto-loads bttv. > it's possible to make a small script to do this automatically - may be > add it in boot.local. jdd, Tom, pardon my french, but do you realize how braindead this is? Writing a boot script to fix a confirmed and resolvable bug which is starting to grow really old and smelly in the pipeline? Instead of doing the right thing and go bug and *help* the people that have the ability and responsibility to fix the bugs they've introduced way too many linux folks tend to happily spend hours of creating hapless and embarrassing workarounds. I think that's the dark side of geek culture: For any given problem we rather create 10 ridiculous kludges instead of come up with the one obvious solution (fixing the original problem). The irony of this: Linux geeks are totally unaware of the FUD this creates among non-geeks who want to get rid of windows because of microsoft's FUD. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:37 +0100, jdd wrote: > Tom Patton a écrit : > > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: > >> Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : > >>> Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2008 jdd: > >>> > did you try to remove the line yourself in the file or to load the > module manually after booting? > >>> > > it's possible to make a small script to do this automatically - may be > add it in boot.local. > > some years ago I had similar problem with the connection, I needed to > launch the conection a long time *after* boot was finished. I did > create a "boot.final" script lauched at the appreopriate time > (boot.local is executed very early in the process) > > jdd > > Well GOODIE! Commenting out the lines in the blacklist file WORKS. I just re-booted the system, and both 4-port video cards loaded (and in the proper order, BTW) fine. So not only did the bttv driver install properly...but 10.3 "persistent - naming" seems to work much better than 10.2 used to!!! I'm happy now. Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
Tom Patton a écrit : On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2008 jdd: did you try to remove the line yourself in the file or to load the module manually after booting? jdd, did you actually read my message? I see: I simply open a root console, and "modprobe bttv". Both cards then return to service...without having to go into YAST for anything. so this don't seems to be a stopper. if this IS a workaround it should be fine to note it in bugzilla, but I have no tv card to test it That was me with the modprobe bttv comment...then someone else pointed out the blacklist issue. I have removed the lines, but have not had to reboot yet to see if that fixed it. I agree, it is easily dealt with as is...at least for me. I guess it would be a problem if I am not home and the power fails...the wife would not have root access to restore the camera system. I'll reboot tomorrow morning and advise if it then auto-loads bttv. Tom in NM it's possible to make a small script to do this automatically - may be add it in boot.local. some years ago I had similar problem with the connection, I needed to launch the conection a long time *after* boot was finished. I did create a "boot.final" script lauched at the appreopriate time (boot.local is executed very early in the process) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 18:59 +0100, jdd wrote: > Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : > > Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2008 jdd: > > > >> did you try to remove the line yourself in the file or to load the > >> module manually after booting? > > > > jdd, did you actually read my message? > > I see: > > I simply open a root console, and "modprobe bttv". Both cards then > return to service...without having to go into YAST for anything. > > so this don't seems to be a stopper. if this IS a workaround it should > be fine to note it in bugzilla, but I have no tv card to test it > That was me with the modprobe bttv comment...then someone else pointed out the blacklist issue. I have removed the lines, but have not had to reboot yet to see if that fixed it. I agree, it is easily dealt with as is...at least for me. I guess it would be a problem if I am not home and the power fails...the wife would not have root access to restore the camera system. I'll reboot tomorrow morning and advise if it then auto-loads bttv. Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Re: insmod a TV card
Wolfgang Woehl a écrit : Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2008 jdd: did you try to remove the line yourself in the file or to load the module manually after booting? jdd, did you actually read my message? I see: I simply open a root console, and "modprobe bttv". Both cards then return to service...without having to go into YAST for anything. so this don't seems to be a stopper. if this IS a workaround it should be fine to note it in bugzilla, but I have no tv card to test it jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
