Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
* Harry ten Berge [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jun 02. 2006 22:01]: Am I correct to say that with the zmd/rug stuff you can actually push updates to machines? So it's not only polling for updates at the repository but a way to force this from a management console/gui thingy? Exactly ! Thats what 'ZENworks Linux Management' (ZLM) gives you. For security reasons, the server does not actually 'push' to the client but prepares tasks for the client and pings it. Klaus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
* Harry ten Berge [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jun 02. 2006 20:50]: Not to be cynical, but if it's not new, why doesn't it work properly? The components are not new but their integration is. And, what I really can't understand, is the ignorance of the impact that the whole issue will have on the very good reputation that SUSE had in the past. Be assured that we do not ignore this issue. However, we have to be very careful on making changes to the system as we want to fix bugs and not introduce new ones. Klaus -- Klaus Kämpf, Architect Systems Management, Research Development SuSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 01:20:02PM +0100, Thomas Hertweck wrote: This means, for instance, it's important to convince those people at Novell/SUSE in charge of the release that major changes in a late beta stage are not acceptable from a user's perspective. In our company, nobody would come up with an idea to make major changes in such a late stage of the development process - this was like calling for problems and trouble... I am sure that they are aware of that at Novell as well at this moment. Perhaps somebody from inside could explain this a bit more what the reaction of management is. Not verbatim, but just a general idea. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion (was: KDE supplementary moved to Build Service)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Janne Karhunen wrote: Having dozens of different semi-working RPM frontends/repository types is getting seriously out of hands. You need to follow up latest developments on the front daily to be able to install anything. It doesn't really help the user anymore, quite the opposite. I must admit I am getting the same impression. While it's nice to have options, I agree that it is getting out of hands. There is smart, apt-get, FOUS, rug, yum, YOU and whathavenot. Please let some sanity prevail here :) It would be nice to have *one* functional, integrated and supported tool to apply both updates and install packages from external repositories. But it looks as if Zen/rug is supposed to take that role now, it just isn't fully there yet... Bye, LenZ - -- - -- Lenz Grimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] -o) [ICQ: 160767607 | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/\\ http://www.lenzg.org/ V_V -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEgCnCSVDhKrJykfIRAkNYAJ49lRYoAVgZnPGz3N+eZo4qcL7IdACfclf4 aXUto/TatdBF0K2SbaYGqtw= =K7Rp -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
Lenz Grimmer wrote: Hi, Janne Karhunen wrote: Having dozens of different semi-working RPM frontends/repository types is getting seriously out of hands. You need to follow up latest developments on the front daily to be able to install anything. It doesn't really help the user anymore, quite the opposite. I must admit I am getting the same impression. While it's nice to have options, I agree that it is getting out of hands. There is smart, apt-get, FOUS, rug, yum, YOU and whathavenot. Please let some sanity prevail here :) It would be nice to have *one* functional, integrated and supported tool to apply both updates and install packages from external repositories. But it looks as if Zen/rug is supposed to take that role now, it just isn't fully there yet... Do you know that the package management made me re-think my long-standing SUSE usage? I really, really got frustrated with the state of package management in 10.1. But yesterday evening I decided to give it a last try: I switched over to smart. And boy oh boy, what is smart a great tool! It works out-of-the-box, is fast (compared to zmd 'ultra-fast' :-), and there's even a KDE-native update notice application! Back to the topic: what is exactly the reason that development of yet-another-package-solution was started (zmd/rug) and so on where smart offers in my opinion a very well starting point... Regards Harry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:31:42PM +0200, Harry ten Berge wrote:
Back to the topic: what is exactly the reason that development of
yet-another-package-solution was started (zmd/rug) and so on where smart
offers in my opinion a very well starting point...
The reason is basically that the enterprise version needs some
features that smart doesn't have.
The most important one is the handling of patches, i.e. groups
of rpms. We need a way to make it possible for the admin to
select/deselect such patches, e.g. when he decides that the patch
is too unsafe for his critical application.
Tools like smare just look at single rpms and check if a newer
version is available or not. This is not enough for the enterprise.
Btw, zmd/rug is not a new thing, it is based on the red carpet
system. What's new is the libzypp library.
Cheers,
Michael.
--
Michael Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
Michael Schroeder wrote: On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:31:42PM +0200, Harry ten Berge wrote: Back to the topic: what is exactly the reason that development of yet-another-package-solution was started (zmd/rug) and so on where smart offers in my opinion a very well starting point... The reason is basically that the enterprise version needs some features that smart doesn't have. The most important one is the handling of patches, i.e. groups of rpms. We need a way to make it possible for the admin to select/deselect such patches, e.g. when he decides that the patch is too unsafe for his critical application. Tools like smare just look at single rpms and check if a newer version is available or not. This is not enough for the enterprise. Btw, zmd/rug is not a new thing, it is based on the red carpet system. What's new is the libzypp library. Cheers, Michael. Not to be cynical, but if it's not new, why doesn't it work properly? And, what I really can't understand, is the ignorance of the impact that the whole issue will have on the very good reputation that SUSE had in the past. Regards Harry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:50:23PM +0200, Harry ten Berge wrote: Not to be cynical, but if it's not new, why doesn't it work properly? That already has been explained and not only once. And, what I really can't understand, is the ignorance of the impact that the whole issue will have on the very good reputation that SUSE had in the past. What ignorance? People are awrae of the impact. The question is what we as a community can do to explain people what is happening and what is been done to solve it. (this is openSUSE, right?) This is what I do 1) Explain what the problem is 2) Explain what the solution is for now 3) Explain what is being done to solve the issue. It is as if a kid fell in the water and everybody is standing at the side saying how terrible it is and all the time the kid is drowning. So instead of standing at the side, jump in, or are you (multiple people) afraid to get wet? -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
houghi wrote: On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 08:50:23PM +0200, Harry ten Berge wrote: Not to be cynical, but if it's not new, why doesn't it work properly? That already has been explained and not only once. And, what I really can't understand, is the ignorance of the impact that the whole issue will have on the very good reputation that SUSE had in the past. What ignorance? People are awrae of the impact. The question is what we as a community can do to explain people what is happening and what is been done to solve it. (this is openSUSE, right?) This is what I do 1) Explain what the problem is 2) Explain what the solution is for now 3) Explain what is being done to solve the issue. It is as if a kid fell in the water and everybody is standing at the side saying how terrible it is and all the time the kid is drowning. So instead of standing at the side, jump in, or are you (multiple people) afraid to get wet? No. Seriously. I'm not afraid to get wet. But the problem is that I find it at this stage difficult to handle your point 2 and 3. So what is being done about it? The only thing I'm hearing so far is that there will be an update any time soon. What is soon? But you're right about the community thing. That's why I asked what is wrong with smart. But that's clarified now... Besides that, I really don't know what we can do about it in the community. The one thing I can think of is a general discussion about package management for 10.2. I don't mean the technical implementation, because Novell has decided that zmd/rug is the solution. But the huge amount of different repository types, the way you must add additional repos For newbies (I've got some friends I convinced to try 10.1) it's way to difficult. That is something we think about in the community... Harry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
So what is being done about it? The only thing I'm hearing so far is that there will be an update any time soon. What is soon? Next week hopefully. We have a test repo online already and fixing the last critical bugs. But you're right about the community thing. That's why I asked what is wrong with smart. But that's clarified now... Besides that, I really don't know what we can do about it in the community. The one thing I can think of is a general discussion about package management for 10.2. I don't mean the technical implementation, because Novell has decided that zmd/rug is the solution. But the huge amount of different repository types, the way you must add additional repos For newbies (I've got some friends I convinced to try 10.1) it's way to difficult. That is something we think about in the community... See opensuse-factory, where AJ started one... Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
Marcus Meissner wrote: So what is being done about it? The only thing I'm hearing so far is that there will be an update any time soon. What is soon? Next week hopefully. We have a test repo online already and fixing the last critical bugs. But you're right about the community thing. That's why I asked what is wrong with smart. But that's clarified now... Besides that, I really don't know what we can do about it in the community. The one thing I can think of is a general discussion about package management for 10.2. I don't mean the technical implementation, because Novell has decided that zmd/rug is the solution. But the huge amount of different repository types, the way you must add additional repos For newbies (I've got some friends I convinced to try 10.1) it's way to difficult. That is something we think about in the community... See opensuse-factory, where AJ started one... Ok, I'll take a look... On a side note: do you know if there are plans to develop a KDE native updater applet? Regards Harry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:45:10PM +0200, Harry ten Berge wrote: Marcus Meissner wrote: So what is being done about it? The only thing I'm hearing so far is that there will be an update any time soon. What is soon? Next week hopefully. We have a test repo online already and fixing the last critical bugs. But you're right about the community thing. That's why I asked what is wrong with smart. But that's clarified now... Besides that, I really don't know what we can do about it in the community. The one thing I can think of is a general discussion about package management for 10.2. I don't mean the technical implementation, because Novell has decided that zmd/rug is the solution. But the huge amount of different repository types, the way you must add additional repos For newbies (I've got some friends I convinced to try 10.1) it's way to difficult. That is something we think about in the community... See opensuse-factory, where AJ started one... Ok, I'll take a look... On a side note: do you know if there are plans to develop a KDE native updater applet? Yes. We even have found a student who wants to do it ;) http://code.google.com/soc/suse/about.html Btw, the previous YOU watcher just run a commandline program (online_update)... It could be ported to just call rug... ;) Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
Am Freitag, 2. Juni 2006 21:52 schrieb Marcus Meissner: On a side note: do you know if there are plans to develop a KDE native updater applet? Yes. We even have found a student who wants to do it ;) http://code.google.com/soc/suse/about.html Btw, the previous YOU watcher just run a commandline program (online_update)... It could be ported to just call rug... ;) How about patching the old SuSE-Watcher to just call smart .. That would be nice ;-) Greets Michael Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 09:26:30PM +0200, Harry ten Berge wrote: This is what I do 1) Explain what the problem is 2) Explain what the solution is for now 3) Explain what is being done to solve the issue. It is as if a kid fell in the water and everybody is standing at the side saying how terrible it is and all the time the kid is drowning. So instead of standing at the side, jump in, or are you (multiple people) afraid to get wet? No. Seriously. I'm not afraid to get wet. But the problem is that I find it at this stage difficult to handle your point 2 and 3. 2) Use smart and remove zmd and such. 3) People are working and testing at this very moment. You have already been pointed to opensuse-factory. Look first here: http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-factory/2006-May/ Skip all the makeSUSEdvd stuff, because that is solved. snip Besides that, I really don't know what we can do about it in the community. 1) 2) and 3) ;-) The one thing I can think of is a general discussion about package management for 10.2. I don't mean the technical implementation, because Novell has decided that zmd/rug is the solution. But the huge amount of different repository types, the way you must add additional repos For newbies (I've got some friends I convinced to try 10.1) it's way to difficult. That is something we think about in the community... It is. There are some small discussions about that in opensuse-factory as well. I personally think implementing *.repo is a good way. Just click it and you are done. It is always good to here what newbies think, because most of us are so close and things become so obvious, that we forget how a newbie sees it. Let yourself be heard in factory. Otherwise it is just jdd and me taking up space. :-) -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
