Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Pueblo Native]

scsijon wrote:
> The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
> functions
> (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a replacement that
> has a
> scriptable interface. He would like whichever is used to both have
> windows
> and linux versions so he only has to create one version of source code.


I'm in the dark a little as to what exactly are you needing to script? 
Are you just needing for it to write an e-mail out and prepare it
through the mail client, or do you actually need to send the e-mail from
the program?  I'd check out Thunderbird in either case, as that is the
major client I know is available in both Windows and Linux versions.
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Mike McMullin]

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a transport firm.
> 
> They have no problem with it being linux providing everything they have now,
> they will have afterwards as they are expanding from the current four depots
> and twelve staff and have planned to have fifteen depots and about twenty five
> staff by the end of the year.
> 
> Unfortunately one of the principal packages they use was written for a Native
> Windows environment.
> 
> Fortunately the programmer is a local and after some "discussion" is willing
> to create a linux version as he is writing a major upgrade at present and
> providing I can help him, and with some answers
> 
> The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's functions
> (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a replacement that has a
> scriptable interface. He would like whichever is used to both have windows
> and linux versions so he only has to create one version of source code.
> 
> Any sugestions?

  IIRC Eudora runs under wine.

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Mike McMullin]

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 10:39 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> > I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a transport 
> > firm.
> > 
> > They have no problem with it being linux providing everything they have now,
> > they will have afterwards as they are expanding from the current four depots
> > and twelve staff and have planned to have fifteen depots and about twenty 
> > five
> > staff by the end of the year.
> > 
> > Unfortunately one of the principal packages they use was written for a 
> > Native
> > Windows environment.
> > 
> > Fortunately the programmer is a local and after some "discussion" is willing
> > to create a linux version as he is writing a major upgrade at present and
> > providing I can help him, and with some answers
> > 
> > The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's 
> > functions
> > (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a replacement that has a
> > scriptable interface. He would like whichever is used to both have windows
> > and linux versions so he only has to create one version of source code.
> > 
> > Any sugestions?
> 
>   IIRC Eudora runs under wine.

  I just had a look at the Eudora site, it's been discontinued, and
picked up by Mozilla as Penelope.  The company may not be able to use
this on their new systems.

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Rikard Johnels]

On Sunday 13 May 2007 17:05, Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 10:39 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
> > On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> > > I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a transport
> > > firm.
> > >
> > > They have no problem with it being linux providing everything they have
> > > now, they will have afterwards as they are expanding from the current
> > > four depots and twelve staff and have planned to have fifteen depots
> > > and about twenty five staff by the end of the year.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately one of the principal packages they use was written for a
> > > Native Windows environment.
> > >
> > > Fortunately the programmer is a local and after some "discussion" is
> > > willing to create a linux version as he is writing a major upgrade at
> > > present and providing I can help him, and with some answers
> > >
> > > The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
> > > functions (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a
> > > replacement that has a scriptable interface. He would like whichever is
> > > used to both have windows and linux versions so he only has to create
> > > one version of source code.
> > >
> > > Any sugestions?
> >
> >   IIRC Eudora runs under wine.
>
>   I just had a look at the Eudora site, it's been discontinued, and
> picked up by Mozilla as Penelope.  The company may not be able to use
> this on their new systems.

And why would they want run a windows application under wine when they WANT to 
migrate to Linux???

As stated above, what do you need of Eudora's functionality?
The mail client for reading? The addressbook for sending of mails?


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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Carlos E. R.]

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The Sunday 2007-05-13 at 17:31 +0200, Rikard Johnels wrote:

> > > > The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
> > > > functions (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a
> > > > replacement that has a scriptable interface. He would like whichever is
> > > > used to both have windows and linux versions so he only has to create
> > > > one version of source code.

...

> As stated above, what do you need of Eudora's functionality?
> The mail client for reading? The addressbook for sending of mails?


You just have to read above the original mail from the OP:

|> ... that has a scriptable interface. 

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[jdd]

Carlos E. R. wrote:

|> ... that has a scriptable interface. 


why not use "mail" ??

jdd


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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Sunday 2007-05-13 at 20:10 +0200, jdd wrote:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> > | > ... that has a scriptable interface. 
> 
> why not use "mail" ??

We'll have to wait till "scsijon" clarifies what they need.

- -- 
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   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[John Andersen]

On Sunday 13 May 2007, scsijon wrote:
 
>
> The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
> functions (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a replacement
> that has a scriptable interface. He would like whichever is used to both
> have windows and linux versions so he only has to create one version of
> source code.

As I understand it, Kmail has command line capabilities which
can be controlled thru Dcop.  

However "mail" command in linux has been available since dirt
and can (and often is) used to automate messages etc.



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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Mike McMullin]

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 19:56 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> The Sunday 2007-05-13 at 17:31 +0200, Rikard Johnels wrote:
> 
> > > > > The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
> > > > > functions (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a
> > > > > replacement that has a scriptable interface. He would like whichever 
> > > > > is
> > > > > used to both have windows and linux versions so he only has to create
> > > > > one version of source code.
> 
> ...
> 
> > As stated above, what do you need of Eudora's functionality?
> > The mail client for reading? The addressbook for sending of mails?
> 
> 
> You just have to read above the original mail from the OP:
> 
> |> ... that has a scriptable interface. 

  And that the scripts are there for Eudora, that being what is in use
now.  

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Pueblo Native]

John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 13 May 2007, scsijon wrote:
>  
>   
>> The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
>> functions (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a replacement
>> that has a scriptable interface. He would like whichever is used to both
>> have windows and linux versions so he only has to create one version of
>> source code.
>> 
>
> As I understand it, Kmail has command line capabilities which
> can be controlled thru Dcop.  
>
> However "mail" command in linux has been available since dirt
> and can (and often is) used to automate messages etc.
>
>   
Dirt 2.0 or 3.0? ;-)
But I was thinking, why do you even need an _external_ mail program. 
Depending upon your system, wouldn't using a SMTP control or even
library be easier, depending upon what you needed to do exactly.
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[John Andersen]

On Sunday 13 May 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
> John Andersen wrote:
 
> But I was thinking, why do you even need an _external_ mail program.
> Depending upon your system, wouldn't using a SMTP control or even
> library be easier, depending upon what you needed to do exactly.

As someone who has had to do that, I can tell you it gets fairly
complex, especially when a varying number of attachments are 
to be sent.  If you can find a library it would of course be easier
but there are still a zillion options you may have to implement
and you might end up writing it closer to the platform than you
really wanted.


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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Pueblo Native]

John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 13 May 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
>   
>> John Andersen wrote:
>> 
>  
>   
>> But I was thinking, why do you even need an _external_ mail program.
>> Depending upon your system, wouldn't using a SMTP control or even
>> library be easier, depending upon what you needed to do exactly.
>> 
>
> As someone who has had to do that, I can tell you it gets fairly
> complex, especially when a varying number of attachments are 
> to be sent.  If you can find a library it would of course be easier
> but there are still a zillion options you may have to implement
> and you might end up writing it closer to the platform than you
> really wanted.
>
>
>   
There is that, but is there a version of mail that works on Windows
applications exactly the way the linux version does?  I'm very likely
ignorant on that level if it does exist.
I can see three possible solutions in this case:

1.  Use a third party mailer that is used on both Windows and Linux and
have the application call that
2.  Build in mail capabilities to the application.
3.  Have each of the desktop clients use a web call to a local, secure
web server that does the mailing.
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Randall R Schulz]

On Sunday 13 May 2007 16:36, Pueblo Native wrote:
> ...
>
> There is that, but is there a version of mail that works on Windows
> applications exactly the way the linux version does?

Cygwin has something. Once upon a time, when I was forced to do 
development on the beast that is Windows, I integrated the mailing of 
change notices into CVS (all under Cygwin). The mail-sending tool is 
called "ssmtp" (simple SMTP). Naturally, it's scriptable, since it's a 
command-line tool.

With Cygwin, Windows can be tolerated and made to do useful work.




Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Registration Account]

I would bight the bullet now and commit to Thunderbird. I went through
this same process when 10.2 RC and Evolution were not compatible with
major bug (blocker) issue.

1. The availability to write add-ons specific to your needs
2. Continual Clear Development Path
3. Not written or constrained now or in the future (add-ons excepted) to
another mail server - Groupwise.
4. Appalling  development and response to bug fixes submitted on
Evolution. ( I logged an Evolution Bug that was Major and the programmer
apologised for the 2 month delay saying " Sorry for the delay but I
don't get down to many bugs  that are or below Major).
5. Complexity in Kmail for a new user - over engineered to the max and
possible future dependants on KDE Desktop
6. Second example recently where Evolution was dependant on Gnome Desktop.
7. Mega serious attitude/cultural issues with KDE in relation to bugs.
8. Here to stay - Designed to run with Linux O/S Kernel not particular
Desktop.
9. Add-on GPL - so many of them - seems like they are common place and
should fulfil  your "scripting needs".
10. Standard Mbox and Vcard formatting of files.
11. Sideways function maintenance of product for MS Windows/ Mac/Linux/Unix
12. Standard GPL on whole package.
13. Solid and being a Mozilla product - huge commitment.
14. Bugs and suggestions well received.
15. GUI current issues with Evolution KDE desktop.
16. Make no mistake - Evolution is designed as the Desktop client where
Groupwise is the server in mixed Netware/Linux environments.
17. If you commit to SLED you will have to install Thunderbird via
download - Not part of SLED CD/DVD.
18. Lead time - months to correct beta 'blocker' bug in RC of 10.2.
19. No backward updates of suse.de applications. Example if you have
Open Office and run 10.1 you wont get enhancements auto scheduled for
version 10.2 updates. - exception security issues.

Personal comments only - Without Prejudice - Acknowledged Personal Opinions
1. Complete lack of faith in QA, clear development path of suse.de
maintained applications and apart from security no apparent need to fix
bugs of past release before new release.

Apparent that suse.de has structural issues with development.  Quote
inserted into a bug report "Whose handling NFS".next entry "nnn"
I think" or try "xxx"

Open Suse really appears to be the testing ground for SLED as
overwhelming issues when upgrading from version to version. No QA issue
in RC containing far too many unresolved beta bug fixes in new version -
lest previous one.

That's all I can think of and why with the issues of 10.2 KDE/Evolution
- Totally unacceptable QA control by suse.de and severely clearly
viewpoint, that Evolution forms part of the default package Grouping of
Gnome Desktop and Kmail/KDE  - This is very obvious we are not meant to
pick and choose applications not assigned to desktop by default.

OMG! Boy can I rave on...
Scott :-X

scsijon wrote:
> I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a
> transport firm.
>
> They have no problem with it being linux providing everything they
> have now,
> they will have afterwards as they are expanding from the current four
> depots
> and twelve staff and have planned to have fifteen depots and about
> twenty five
> staff by the end of the year.
>
> Unfortunately one of the principal packages they use was written for a
> Native
> Windows environment.
>
> Fortunately the programmer is a local and after some "discussion" is
> willing
> to create a linux version as he is writing a major upgrade at present and
> providing I can help him, and with some answers
>
> The main problem left is that it uses a mail program as part of it's
> functions
> (currently Eudora) and I need to provide him with a replacement that
> has a
> scriptable interface. He would like whichever is used to both have
> windows
> and linux versions so he only has to create one version of source code.
>
> Any sugestions?
>
> scsijon
>


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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Will Stephenson]

On Monday 14 May 2007, Registration Account said:
> I would bight the bullet now and commit to Thunderbird. I went through
> this same process when 10.2 RC and Evolution were not compatible with
> major bug (blocker) issue.

I hope you don't mind if I refute some of your assertions.  I feel that 
Thunderbird is a fine program, but such an outspoken attack on the 
alternatives is unjustified.  

I would also ask you to consider that the use of large applications that stand 
alone with no infrastructure shared with the rest of the desktop wastes an 
opportunity for code reuse, resulting in a bigger memory footprint and a 
slower system.

> 3. Not written or constrained now or in the future (add-ons excepted) to
> another mail server - Groupwise.

You need to review your understanding of cause and effect.  Just because 
Novell develops XYZ and Novell sells GroupWise doesn't mean that XYZ would 
ever be constrained to or written around GroupWise.  GW is an enterprise 
sized system - however, many Novell customers and the overwhelming majority 
of community members do not need an enterprise sized mail system - hence we 
also put a lot of work into making POP, SMTP and IMAP as good as any other 
client.

> 5. Complexity in Kmail for a new user - over engineered to the max and
> possible future dependants on KDE Desktop

We make the easy things easy and the hard things possible.  Just doing the 
former is unacceptable IMO.  

With regard to desktop dependency doubts, our KDE 3 packaging of KMail depends 
only on kdelibs3, and kdebase3 for SMTP.  It does not require you to use 
KMail under a KDE desktop, nor are there any difference in features if you do 
not.  Our password manager, kwallet, and our out of process smtp, imap and 
pop subsystems all function indepedently of what is running the desktop.  

The KDE 4 packaging will take this separation even further so that you can 
install separate applications from a KDE module.  Instead of kdelibs3, 
kdebase3 and kdepim3 you can install libkde4, kdepimlibs and kde4-kmail, 
which are much smaller packages.

> 7. Mega serious attitude/cultural issues with KDE in relation to bugs.

I beg your pardon?

> 8. Here to stay - Designed to run with Linux O/S Kernel not particular
> Desktop.

The KDE project celebrated its 10th anniversary last year, and is larger than 
ever.  Additionally we design to run with any *nix kernel, and KDE 4 will 
bring KMail and family to OSX and Windows platforms, to ease users' migration 
to a completely Free Software desktop.

> 9. Add-on GPL - so many of them - seems like they are common place and
> should fulfil  your "scripting needs".
> 10. Standard Mbox and Vcard formatting of files.

Check - for KMail and Evolution too, I think

> 12. Standard GPL on whole package.

Check.  GPL and LGPL on libs, like Mozilla*.

> 15. GUI current issues with Evolution KDE desktop.

?

> 19. No backward updates of suse.de applications. Example if you have
> Open Office and run 10.1 you wont get enhancements auto scheduled for
> version 10.2 updates. - exception security issues.

10.2 is the update to 10.1.  But we do provide these backward updates on an 
unsupported basis in the KDE:Backports obss repository.

Will
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[scsijon]

At 12:39 AM 5/14/2007, Mike McMullin wrote:

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> I have b





> Any sugestions?

  IIRC Eudora runs under wine.

--


and that was my current sugestion to them, however I have no 
experience with wine

and it's on my todo list.

scsijon 


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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[scsijon]

At 01:31 AM 5/14/2007, Rikard Johnels wrote:

On Sunday 13 May 2007 17:05, Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 10:39 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
> > On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> > > I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a transport
> > > firm.
> > >





> > > Any sugestions?
> >
> >   IIRC Eudora runs under wine.
>
>   I just had a look at the Eudora site, it's been discontinued, and
> picked up by Mozilla as Penelope.  The company may not be able to use
> this on their new systems.

And why would they want run a windows application under wine when 
they WANT to

migrate to Linux???

As stated above, what do you need of Eudora's functionality?
The mail client for reading? The addressbook for sending of mails?



i have no detailed idea, i'm not the programmer, just the installer

but from what i understand, there are database links to move the 
various unit (palate) records
between the sending > receiving offices using the mail system. 
Aparently Eudora's scripting

is easy to use and very database compatable, acording to the programmer.

It's not simple, but it does work for them and saves having to have 
direct or permanent links.


scsijon

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Theo v. Werkhoven]

Tue, 15 May 2007, by [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> At 01:31 AM 5/14/2007, Rikard Johnels wrote:
> >On Sunday 13 May 2007 17:05, Mike McMullin wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 10:39 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
> >> > On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> >> > > I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a 
> >transport
> >> > > firm.
> >> > >
> 
> 
> 
> >> > > Any sugestions?
> >> >
> >> >   IIRC Eudora runs under wine.
> >>
> >>   I just had a look at the Eudora site, it's been discontinued, and
> >> picked up by Mozilla as Penelope.  The company may not be able to use
> >> this on their new systems.
> >
> >And why would they want run a windows application under wine when 
> >they WANT to
> >migrate to Linux???
> >
> >As stated above, what do you need of Eudora's functionality?
> >The mail client for reading? The addressbook for sending of mails?
> 
> 
> i have no detailed idea, i'm not the programmer, just the installer
> 
> but from what i understand, there are database links to move the 
> various unit (palate) records
> between the sending > receiving offices using the mail system. 
> Aparently Eudora's scripting
> is easy to use and very database compatable, acording to the programmer.
> 
> It's not simple, but it does work for them and saves having to have 
> direct or permanent links.

Scripting languages like Python, Perl, Ruby etc have libraries for
both sending and receiving email, and parsing RFC2822 + MIME data.
Those languages are mature on all relevant platforms, and all have
good development tools.
Why would you you a proprietary system when you can use a open (and
free) system?

Theo
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Jerry Feldman]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:40:07 +0200
"Theo v. Werkhoven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Scripting languages like Python, Perl, Ruby etc have libraries for
> both sending and receiving email, and parsing RFC2822 + MIME data.
> Those languages are mature on all relevant platforms, and all have
> good development tools.
> Why would you you a proprietary system when you can use a open (and
> free) system?
I have been using claws-mail (www.claws-mail.org) for a number of
years. It includes a perl plugin for advanced searches. While Eudora is
an excellent product, IMHO, you are probably better off using a product
that is natively built on Linux. Claws supports both Windows and Linux,
is actively maintained. You can build from source or install from RPMs.
The two features that I like are that it fully supports MH folders (as
well as MBOX), and it can access the jpilot address book directly. My
wife has Eudora, and I find that claws has much of the same
functionality. But, one capability that claws does not have is the
ability to send html (IMHO a good thing). 

However, I would love to see how Eudora performs under WINE or
Crossover Office (Crossover Office is a commercial product that
incorporates WINE and is tested for many Windows apps. The CodeWeavers
team also hosts and supports WINE). 


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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[Pueblo Native]

Jerry Feldman wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:40:07 +0200
> "Theo v. Werkhoven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   
>> Scripting languages like Python, Perl, Ruby etc have libraries for
>> both sending and receiving email, and parsing RFC2822 + MIME data.
>> Those languages are mature on all relevant platforms, and all have
>> good development tools.
>> Why would you you a proprietary system when you can use a open (and
>> free) system?
>> 
> I have been using claws-mail (www.claws-mail.org) for a number of
> years. It includes a perl plugin for advanced searches. While Eudora is
> an excellent product, IMHO, you are probably better off using a product
> that is natively built on Linux. Claws supports both Windows and Linux,
> is actively maintained. You can build from source or install from RPMs.
> The two features that I like are that it fully supports MH folders (as
> well as MBOX), and it can access the jpilot address book directly. My
> wife has Eudora, and I find that claws has much of the same
> functionality. But, one capability that claws does not have is the
> ability to send html (IMHO a good thing). 
>   

Thanks for the alert.  I'm going to have to check this one out on my
spare time.
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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[scsijon]

At 11:56 PM 5/17/2007, Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:40:07 +0200
"Theo v. Werkhoven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Scripting languages like Python, Perl, Ruby etc have libraries for
> both sending and receiving email, and parsing RFC2822 + MIME data.
> Those languages are mature on all relevant platforms, and all have
> good development tools.
> Why would you you a proprietary system when you can use a open (and
> free) system?


firstly, to theo
it works!
the programmer (DEFINATELY NOT ME) knows her current package code "backwards"
she is just starting with linux and will still need to support 
windows as she has other

clients that use the same program in the windows environment.



I have been using claws-mail (www.claws-mail.org) for a number of
years. It includes a perl plugin for advanced searches. While Eudora is
an excellent product, IMHO, you are probably better off using a product
that is natively built on Linux. Claws supports both Windows and Linux,
is actively maintained. You can build from source or install from RPMs.
The two features that I like are that it fully supports MH folders (as
well as MBOX), and it can access the jpilot address book directly. My
wife has Eudora, and I find that claws has much of the same
functionality. But, one capability that claws does not have is the
ability to send html (IMHO a good thing).


I will have a look at it and see if it will suit her



However, I would love to see how Eudora performs under WINE or
Crossover Office (Crossover Office is a commercial product that
incorporates WINE and is tested for many Windows apps. The CodeWeavers
team also hosts and supports WINE).


I am setting up a wine environment at present and will have a go at installing
Eudora and openoffice2 (easy to use database) next week together with
some"rough" code she has created to try it out with.
One of the wine people has Eudora working, they say ok with little hastles
and little delays.

thanks to eveyone for help so far, will give feedback at end of month.

scsijon


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