RE: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
I think that's dependent on the servlet container. I know that Orion/oc4j is much faster than Tomcat with JSPs. If I were forced to use Tomcat, then velocity would be more compelling. Personally, I find velocity easier to use because it just seems more focused to the task at hand with MVC view rendering. The "if" and "foreach" constructs seem much more intuitive than their tag-based counterparts in JSP. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hani Suleiman Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 8:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP My measurement is that they're exactly the same speed, when both are optimised correctly (at least, in webwork) On Feb 22, 2004, at 8:13 AM, Konstantin Priblouda wrote: > > --- remigijus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Ok it sounds nice, I'm not against velocity, I'm just curious. >> How many hits you are getting per day and peak load? >> What hardware and software do you use? >> Did you tryed to look at Freemarker, how can you compare Freemarker >> vs Velocity. > > My perception is that velocity rendering is 5 times faster as alerady > compiled jsp. > > Freemarker seems to be equivalent to velocity. > > regards, > > = > [ Konstantin Pribluda ( ko5tik ) ] Zu Verstärkung > meines Teams suche ich ab Sofort einen Softwareentwickler[In] für die > Festanstellung. > Arbeitsort: Mainz > Skills: Programieren, Kentnisse in OpenSource-Bereich [ > http://www.pribluda.de ] > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > > --- > SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. > Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD > software kit from IBM. Click Now! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click > ___ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
remigijus wrote: But got one more question. Why are you going to drop JBoss? I thought to start using JBoss in my new projects. Well, we're not using anything in JBoss that is not also available in Tomcat, so what's the point of having it? It's just bloat. Chews up memory, and the UCL system is... ehrm.. interesting. Good enough? ;-) /Rickard --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
- Original Message - From: "Rickard Öberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP > remigijus wrote: > > Ok it sounds nice, I'm not against velocity, I'm just curious. > > How many hits you are getting per day and peak load? > > What hardware and software do you use? > > We do load tests sometimes, but it's hard to compare that with reality. > > In reality, we do have one web hotel server which currently hosts 57 > customers, and with a total of 14.600 (dynamic) pages. I'd guess about > 10 of those are so-called high-volume sites. We have no HTML output > caching, so if Velocity didn't perform the server would crash. This is > currently a 3Ghz/1.5Gb/Linux box, with Apache/JBoss/Tomcat as > infrastructure and our CMS running inside of that. For the next version > we're switching to Apache/Tomcat only. > Ok now I feel much better and even confident, when I see you supplied figures. I think question JSP vs templates is closed. Now I'm ready to say to my customer the server will run even after world war three. But got one more question. Why are you going to drop JBoss? I thought to start using JBoss in my new projects. > > Did you tryed to look at Freemarker, how can you compare Freemarker vs > > Velocity. > > I got allergic to Jonathans "Freemarker rules"-rants early on, and hence > never bothered with it. > > Velocity *is* limited. Which is why it fits our purposes perfectly. YMMV. > > /Rickard > > > > > --- > SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. > Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with > a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click > ___ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
Erik Jõgi wrote: Rickard Öberg wrote ... 2) Great performance 3) Templates does not have to be in files (JSP files do) ... where does the performance win over JSPs come from? As JSPs are compiled into servlets, how do you beat that? Don't know, don't care. It's just faster :-) That's probably not inherent though; it may very well be that it is possible to make a JSP compiler that creates equally fast output. However, since JSP's are converted into classes you will run into memory management problems on sites with many pages, as the JSP-servlet-classes are tougher to cache than AST's for Velocity templates. if you don't put your templates into separate files, then where do you put them? and how do you specify in xwork.xml which one to pick as the view? Typically we have a template file with a default, but in a number of cases we allow it to be edited by the end-customer. The edited version is stored in a database, along with all the other content. The Velocity is therefore a part of a customized Portlet configuration. It just happens to be a very rendering-related configuration option. We also very often use Velocity for non-HTML cases, such as generating emails. It's nice to be able to have one way to generate all dynamic text, whether it's HTML or emails, and which customers can edit without having to call us. /Rickard --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
remigijus wrote: Ok it sounds nice, I'm not against velocity, I'm just curious. How many hits you are getting per day and peak load? What hardware and software do you use? We do load tests sometimes, but it's hard to compare that with reality. In reality, we do have one web hotel server which currently hosts 57 customers, and with a total of 14.600 (dynamic) pages. I'd guess about 10 of those are so-called high-volume sites. We have no HTML output caching, so if Velocity didn't perform the server would crash. This is currently a 3Ghz/1.5Gb/Linux box, with Apache/JBoss/Tomcat as infrastructure and our CMS running inside of that. For the next version we're switching to Apache/Tomcat only. Did you tryed to look at Freemarker, how can you compare Freemarker vs Velocity. I got allergic to Jonathans "Freemarker rules"-rants early on, and hence never bothered with it. Velocity *is* limited. Which is why it fits our purposes perfectly. YMMV. /Rickard --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
My measurement is that they're exactly the same speed, when both are optimised correctly (at least, in webwork) On Feb 22, 2004, at 8:13 AM, Konstantin Priblouda wrote: --- remigijus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ok it sounds nice, I'm not against velocity, I'm just curious. How many hits you are getting per day and peak load? What hardware and software do you use? Did you tryed to look at Freemarker, how can you compare Freemarker vs Velocity. My perception is that velocity rendering is 5 times faster as alerady compiled jsp. Freemarker seems to be equivalent to velocity. regards, = [ Konstantin Pribluda ( ko5tik ) ] Zu Verstärkung meines Teams suche ich ab Sofort einen Softwareentwickler[In] für die Festanstellung. Arbeitsort: Mainz Skills: Programieren, Kentnisse in OpenSource-Bereich [ http://www.pribluda.de ] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
RE: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
--- Erik_Jõgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rickard Öberg wrote > > ... > > 2) Great performance > > 3) Templates does not have to be in files (JSP > files do) > > ... > > where does the performance win over JSPs come from? > As JSPs are compiled > into servlets, how do you beat that? Did you looked into source code of those servlets? Try it, and your questions will disapear :) > if you don't put your templates into separate files, > then where do you > put them? and how do you specify in xwork.xml which > one to pick as the > view? You supply template name and then velocity engine decides where to get it from ( through several resource loaders ) There is a plenty of those around - from classpath, from inside war, from database, from my own breed CMS... Velocity is configurable. regards, = [ Konstantin Pribluda ( ko5tik ) ] Zu Verstärkung meines Teams suche ich ab Sofort einen Softwareentwickler[In] für die Festanstellung. Arbeitsort: Mainz Skills: Programieren, Kentnisse in OpenSource-Bereich [ http://www.pribluda.de ] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
RE: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
> Rickard Öberg wrote > ... > 2) Great performance > 3) Templates does not have to be in files (JSP files do) > ... where does the performance win over JSPs come from? As JSPs are compiled into servlets, how do you beat that? if you don't put your templates into separate files, then where do you put them? and how do you specify in xwork.xml which one to pick as the view? regards, erik --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
--- remigijus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ok it sounds nice, I'm not against velocity, I'm > just curious. > How many hits you are getting per day and peak load? > What hardware and software do you use? > Did you tryed to look at Freemarker, how can you > compare Freemarker vs > Velocity. My perception is that velocity rendering is 5 times faster as alerady compiled jsp. Freemarker seems to be equivalent to velocity. regards, = [ Konstantin Pribluda ( ko5tik ) ] Zu Verstärkung meines Teams suche ich ab Sofort einen Softwareentwickler[In] für die Festanstellung. Arbeitsort: Mainz Skills: Programieren, Kentnisse in OpenSource-Bereich [ http://www.pribluda.de ] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
Ok it sounds nice, I'm not against velocity, I'm just curious. How many hits you are getting per day and peak load? What hardware and software do you use? Did you tryed to look at Freemarker, how can you compare Freemarker vs Velocity. - Original Message - From: "Rickard Öberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP > Eric Webb wrote: > > Since moving to web application frameworks (jakarta turbine and ww2) > > I've exclusively used velocity. I find velocity's syntax to be simple, > > clean, and sufficently powerful for constructing views. I mean, when > > you get down to it, a view is simply html (in most cases), and velocity > > does it nicely. Custom macros and the #parse() marco allow me to create > > modular .vm files that can be reused many many times. > > > Ditto that. We've built our CMS/Portal product to use WW/Velocity > exclusively, and we're VERY happy with that. The major pro's we've seen are: > 1) Clean syntax > 2) Great performance > 3) Templates does not have to be in files (JSP files do) > > All in all, much recommended. > > /Rickard > > > > --- > SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. > Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with > a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click > ___ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
Eric Webb wrote: Since moving to web application frameworks (jakarta turbine and ww2) I've exclusively used velocity. I find velocity's syntax to be simple, clean, and sufficently powerful for constructing views. I mean, when you get down to it, a view is simply html (in most cases), and velocity does it nicely. Custom macros and the #parse() marco allow me to create modular .vm files that can be reused many many times. Ditto that. We've built our CMS/Portal product to use WW/Velocity exclusively, and we're VERY happy with that. The major pro's we've seen are: 1) Clean syntax 2) Great performance 3) Templates does not have to be in files (JSP files do) All in all, much recommended. /Rickard --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
Re: [OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
Most of the JSP work i have done was in the model 1 style (ie: lots of business domain code in the jsp files). I found it very exciting at the time, and was able to do a lot of interesting things. Since moving to web application frameworks (jakarta turbine and ww2) I've exclusively used velocity. I find velocity's syntax to be simple, clean, and sufficently powerful for constructing views. I mean, when you get down to it, a view is simply html (in most cases), and velocity does it nicely. Custom macros and the #parse() marco allow me to create modular .vm files that can be reused many many times. If you are just looking to get something started, i think velocity has a much lower bar of entry. You just have to read one page: http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/user-guide.html , and you pretty know everything there is to know. Some of the down sides about velocity, IDE and HTML editor support can vary. the # syntax used in velocity has confused some of the editors i've used in the past. JSP support is undoubtly better given it's larger market acceptance, and the fact that is conforms to the XML/HTML (bracket <>) form. Undoubtedly, JSP can do all that velocity can and much much more. Most of this advanced functionality is unknown to me, and could be very useful to you. I just find the JSP syntax a little too bulky for my tastes, and velocity is fitting nicely. Cheers, eric Erik Jõgi wrote: Hello, Following the 'Tomcat out of memory' thread in this list I got the impression that several people were suggesting to Velocity instead of JSPs for for the views. I haven't got any experience with Velocity besides looking at the stuff that is part of WebWork but for some reason I have had the impression that JSPs with taglibs and stuff are a more higher-level language than Velocity. Am I mistaken with that idea? Also if I put the question this way - I am starting a new project with WebWork2 and I don't have much of experience with neither JSPs nor Velocity then what would you suggest I choose? best regards, erik --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id56&alloc_id438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
[OS-webwork] Velocity vs. JSP
Hello, Following the 'Tomcat out of memory' thread in this list I got the impression that several people were suggesting to Velocity instead of JSPs for for the views. I haven't got any experience with Velocity besides looking at the stuff that is part of WebWork but for some reason I have had the impression that JSPs with taglibs and stuff are a more higher-level language than Velocity. Am I mistaken with that idea? Also if I put the question this way - I am starting a new project with WebWork2 and I don't have much of experience with neither JSPs nor Velocity then what would you suggest I choose? best regards, erik --- SF.Net is sponsored by: Speed Start Your Linux Apps Now. Build and deploy apps & Web services for Linux with a free DVD software kit from IBM. Click Now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1356&alloc_id=3438&op=click ___ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
