Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Linkodas wrote: > Weedy wrote: >> Linkodas wrote: >>> Hi list/community, >>> >>> we would like to introduce new router supporting OpenWRT. >> Sweet >> >>> This board is referenced to low-cost and low-power solutions. >> Sweet^2 >> >>> Below are preliminary specifications: >>> >>> PCB form factor: Pico-ITX (10cm x 7.2cm, fanless) >>> >>> Onboard CPU: Cortina Systems CS3516 (300Mhz ARM9 Core) >> 300 feels slow, but arm9 is supposed to be quite efficient right? > > 400 MIPS according to specs. There is also dual core version of this chip. Dual core sounds VERY cool. >>> Onboard DDR SDRAM: 128Mb 333Mhz 32bit >> I would make this a SODIMM, 128 is low if I'm going to buy a board > > Since our memory bus is 32-bit it is a little bit problematic with > SODIMM. There is 32-bit SODIMMs, but they are rare and expensive... Dual channel? If you can't make it user upgradeable try and make it 256MB please. With 400mhz and possibly dual core 128 is kinda crappy. It means we need to swap on the rom if we try and do anything interesting. >>> Onboard NAND FLASH: 128Mb (or more) >> Related to above: Too much, go for 32Mb and solder on more ram if you >> can't make it a SODIMM >> >>> Onboard LAN: 2x 10/100Mbps Ethernet >> Last year I would have said "WHY NOT GIGABIT" but since I've switched to >> a high quality gigabit switch plugged into my WRT I don't need more then >> 2 ports on the router device. (Not like we have gigabit internet yet :/) > > It can be Gigabit! We considered 10/100, because of hardware price and > it is unlikely that CPU will generate such traffic... Although it is > capable > of doing hardware NAT at Gigabit between Ethernet ports. As I said Gigabit on a 2 port router (one WAN one LAN) is useless, keep it cheap. >>> Onboard SATA: 2x SATA >> This is why you don't need more then 32mb on-board. There are plenty of >> CF <-> SATA adaptors you can buy for $10 off DX. (Also raid0 SDcard <-> >> SATA) >> >>> Onboard connectors: 2x SATA, 2x mini-PCI slots, 1x mini-PCI Express >>> (with USB 2.0 interface), 1x UART, 1x Pico-ITX power, 1x JTAG, GPIO >>> ports >> So the miniPCIE runs in usb mode? Or both USB and native? > > Only USB. There is no PCIe controller on this CPU. :( thems the breaks. I will agree with the other emails. CF slot built in would be awesome. > >>> Back panel connectors: 2x RJ-45 LAN, 2x USB 2.0, 3x antenna (GSM, 3G, >>> Wifi, Wimax, other), 1x RS232 >> :O GSM >> >>> Management: Watch Dog Timer, Brown-out Reset, RTC with battery >> Battery backed RTC \o/ >> >> What is the target price? depending how close to $100 this stays this >> could kick some serious ass. (if it comes with a case and power supply >> then I guess it can cost more, but a naked board should be close to $100 >> or be insanely over-powered and like $300) > > We think 100$ is realistic for naked board. Nice. > Thank you very much for all comments. No problem. ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 11:45:45PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: > I don't want to believe that CF is connected to GPIO - too many signals. > CF = IDE so I think that their CPU just has IDE. You are right, i took a second look on the IDE driver code and it seems that there is a IDE controller. -- Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santi...@crfreenet.org) OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net) "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so." signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Ondrej Zajicek wrote: On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 10:42:49PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: I would suggest to add bootable CF or SD card connector (or two). There are two use cases for such cards: - Installation of Debian Linux (or another 'normal' Linux distribution compiled for ARM). It is much simpler to install such distribution on CF or SD card than on internal NAND flash. - Persistent storage of system logs and other runtime writable data. I agree it is good idea. SATA/USB to CF or SD is best solution IMO. It should be possible to implement CF or SD card slot using a couple of GPIOs. It will be very ssslllooowww... and will use a lot of CPU resources. At least comparing to SATA converter or even USB adapter. AFAIK Mikrotik Routerboard 532 has CF card slot connected in such way and it is sufficient for these purposes. External devices on USB or SATA are viable alternative (especially USB flash memory), but they are often less convenient than internal card slot. I don't want to believe that CF is connected to GPIO - too many signals. CF = IDE so I think that their CPU just has IDE. Our CPU also has IDE, but it is hard to use it since its pins are muxed with NAND flash pins... IMO the best option is to use USB<->MMC/SD chip with internal connector. Thanks for comments. ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Markus Wigge wrote: Hi, * SIM card slot for mini-PCI express would be great! * Gigabit ethernet instead of FE. * SDHC-slot or CF-Slot to complete the list for our needs: * the case should be DIN rail mountable * Powersupply should accept 24V for industrial usage * the SIM Reader should be accessible through a slot in the enclosure. I don't like the idea to open the case just for switching the SIM. * For the Alix.6b2 board we need 4 antenna holes 2x UMTS, 2x WLAN each with main and aux The idea of SATA-CF adapters is crap. For commercial use you need a ready-to-go device where you don't have to build in such stuff manually. Ideally I'd like to order it, plug in a CF card and boot it. It seems for me that your needs are pretty specific. Currently our goal is general purpose board for other companies/integrators to make final product. We plan to make money from customizations. bye, Markus ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 10:42:49PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: >> I would suggest to add bootable CF or SD card connector (or two). >> There are two use cases for such cards: >> >> - Installation of Debian Linux (or another 'normal' Linux >>distribution compiled for ARM). It is much simpler to install >>such distribution on CF or SD card than on internal NAND flash. >> >> - Persistent storage of system logs and other runtime writable >>data. > > I agree it is good idea. SATA/USB to CF or SD is best solution IMO. > >> It should be possible to implement CF or SD card slot using >> a couple of GPIOs. > > It will be very ssslllooowww... and will use a lot of CPU resources. > At least comparing to SATA converter or even USB adapter. AFAIK Mikrotik Routerboard 532 has CF card slot connected in such way and it is sufficient for these purposes. External devices on USB or SATA are viable alternative (especially USB flash memory), but they are often less convenient than internal card slot. -- Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo Ondrej 'SanTiago' Zajicek (email: santi...@crfreenet.org) OpenPGP encrypted e-mails preferred (KeyID 0x11DEADC3, wwwkeys.pgp.net) "To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so." signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Dirk Nehring wrote: On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:27:26PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: Hi list/community, we would like to introduce new router supporting OpenWRT. It is only in development stage and we are looking for community opinion regarding its features and possibilities. There still currently a chance to change something and take into community response. This board is referenced to low-cost and low-power solutions. Any comments and opinions are very welcome! Below are preliminary specifications: PCB form factor: Pico-ITX (10cm x 7.2cm, fanless) Onboard CPU: Cortina Systems CS3516 (300Mhz ARM9 Core) Onboard DDR SDRAM: 128Mb 333Mhz 32bit Onboard NAND FLASH: 128Mb (or more) Onboard LAN: 2x 10/100Mbps Ethernet Onboard SATA: 2x SATA Onboard connectors: 2x SATA, 2x mini-PCI slots, 1x mini-PCI Express (with USB 2.0 interface), 1x UART, 1x Pico-ITX power, 1x JTAG, GPIO ports Back panel connectors: 2x RJ-45 LAN, 2x USB 2.0, 3x antenna (GSM, 3G, Wifi, Wimax, other), 1x RS232 Management: Watch Dog Timer, Brown-out Reset, RTC with battery Operating system: OpenWRT with newest 2.6 Linux Kernel. Bootloader: U-boot Sounds great. My wishlist: * SIM card slot for mini-PCI express would be great! Definitely * Gigabit ethernet instead of FE. Still considering... There is a chance for Gigabit. Please see my comments on other post about GE. * SDHC-slot or CF-Slot Please see my other comments. Dirk Thank you for comments. ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Linkodas wrote: > RHS Linux User wrote: > >> >> >> 1. GPIO -> SPI/Serial to peripheral(s) with or without their own >> processor >>MMC/SD (of course) >> >>BIG DDR - Suggest 256MB min. DDR >> module plug-in? > > Please see my previous comment on GPIO usage. > Even if it is slow, MMC would be nice to store configuration on. How expensive is a card holder in quantity? The spring loaded ones are a little pricey, but the simple ones are ~ 1USD / quantity 100. RoHS too. http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=94352-5007 Mark ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Gregers Petersen wrote: Dear Linkedas Team Linkodas wrote: Hi list/community, It is always interesting and positive to read that OpenWrt makes new hardware do tricks :) Your questions are somewhat difficult to answer without having access to the hardware in question - so, feel free to donate a couple of these devices to OpenWrt.org? Currently we don't have any real hardware. It is in early development stage. I hope we will be able to donate couple boards when we will have them. In as much as you'r asking for community comments and support for your development work it will require more information, involvement - and, not least a person(s) to talk to. We are used and willing to work with community! ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
RHS Linux User wrote: Hi, New Router board VERY good idea We hope so. I AM willing to get envolved to help with whatever (BSE(EE),MSEE, etc.). Sorry, but I don't understand what you want to say here... Features I need: VERY cheap basic unit available. Good OEM package. I hope this is what we will be able to offer. Full sources for whole design. OEM engineers available. Copies of current engineering package for PCBs, VHDL, Code, etc. Design available in form suitable for use with open source tools!! Not very likely... If we were CPU manufacturers then I understand that providing whole design is good idea. Currently our business model is to provide customization services and sell sub-products/components like this board. Provision for add on modules: Piggy back or plug-in feature modules. And the usual feature set you probably already have identified. 1. GPIO -> SPI/Serial to peripheral(s) with or without their own processor MMC/SD (of course) BIG DDR - Suggest 256MB min. DDR module plug-in? Please see my previous comment on GPIO usage. 2. I TOO see NO NEED for large on PCB flash. Just boot flash with rest of load on plug-in MMC card warm regards to all, Wiz (pen name) Thank you very much for comments. ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Ondrej Zajicek wrote: On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:27:26PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: Hi list/community, we would like to introduce new router supporting OpenWRT. It is only in development stage and we are looking for community opinion regarding its features and possibilities. There still currently a chance to change something and take into community response. I would suggest to add bootable CF or SD card connector (or two). There are two use cases for such cards: - Installation of Debian Linux (or another 'normal' Linux distribution compiled for ARM). It is much simpler to install such distribution on CF or SD card than on internal NAND flash. - Persistent storage of system logs and other runtime writable data. I agree it is good idea. SATA/USB to CF or SD is best solution IMO. It should be possible to implement CF or SD card slot using a couple of GPIOs. It will be very ssslllooowww... and will use a lot of CPU resources. At least comparing to SATA converter or even USB adapter. A nice and useful feature is also onboard piezobuzzer like one on newer Mikrotik Routerboards. Since our board will have GPIO on standard header it should be no problem to connect such custom devices. Thank you very much for your comments. ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Weedy wrote: Linkodas wrote: Hi list/community, we would like to introduce new router supporting OpenWRT. Sweet This board is referenced to low-cost and low-power solutions. Sweet^2 Below are preliminary specifications: PCB form factor: Pico-ITX (10cm x 7.2cm, fanless) Onboard CPU: Cortina Systems CS3516 (300Mhz ARM9 Core) 300 feels slow, but arm9 is supposed to be quite efficient right? 400 MIPS according to specs. There is also dual core version of this chip. Onboard DDR SDRAM: 128Mb 333Mhz 32bit I would make this a SODIMM, 128 is low if I'm going to buy a board Since our memory bus is 32-bit it is a little bit problematic with SODIMM. There is 32-bit SODIMMs, but they are rare and expensive... Onboard NAND FLASH: 128Mb (or more) Related to above: Too much, go for 32Mb and solder on more ram if you can't make it a SODIMM Onboard LAN: 2x 10/100Mbps Ethernet Last year I would have said "WHY NOT GIGABIT" but since I've switched to a high quality gigabit switch plugged into my WRT I don't need more then 2 ports on the router device. (Not like we have gigabit internet yet :/) It can be Gigabit! We considered 10/100, because of hardware price and it is unlikely that CPU will generate such traffic... Although it is capable of doing hardware NAT at Gigabit between Ethernet ports. Onboard SATA: 2x SATA This is why you don't need more then 32mb on-board. There are plenty of CF <-> SATA adaptors you can buy for $10 off DX. (Also raid0 SDcard <-> SATA) Onboard connectors: 2x SATA, 2x mini-PCI slots, 1x mini-PCI Express (with USB 2.0 interface), 1x UART, 1x Pico-ITX power, 1x JTAG, GPIO ports So the miniPCIE runs in usb mode? Or both USB and native? Only USB. There is no PCIe controller on this CPU. Back panel connectors: 2x RJ-45 LAN, 2x USB 2.0, 3x antenna (GSM, 3G, Wifi, Wimax, other), 1x RS232 :O GSM Management: Watch Dog Timer, Brown-out Reset, RTC with battery Battery backed RTC \o/ What is the target price? depending how close to $100 this stays this could kick some serious ass. (if it comes with a case and power supply then I guess it can cost more, but a naked board should be close to $100 or be insanely over-powered and like $300) We think 100$ is realistic for naked board. Thank you very much for all comments. ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Hi, New Router board VERY good idea I AM willing to get envolved to help with whatever (BSE(EE),MSEE, etc.). Features I need: VERY cheap basic unit available. Good OEM package. Full sources for whole design. OEM engineers available. Copies of current engineering package for PCBs, VHDL, Code, etc. Design available in form suitable for use with open source tools!! Provision for add on modules: Piggy back or plug-in feature modules. And the usual feature set you probably already have identified. 1. GPIO -> SPI/Serial to peripheral(s) with or without their own processor MMC/SD (of course) BIG DDR - Suggest 256MB min. DDR module plug-in? 2. I TOO see NO NEED for large on PCB flash. Just boot flash with rest of load on plug-in MMC card warm regards to all, Wiz (pen name) On Tue, 5 May 2009, Weedy wrote: > Ondrej Zajicek wrote: > > On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:27:26PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: > >> Hi list/community, > >> > >> we would like to introduce new router supporting OpenWRT. > >> It is only in development stage and we are looking for community opinion > >> regarding its features and possibilities. There still currently a chance > >> to change something and take into community response. > > > > I would suggest to add bootable CF or SD card connector (or two). > > There are two use cases for such cards: > > > > - Installation of Debian Linux (or another 'normal' Linux > >distribution compiled for ARM). It is much simpler to install > >such distribution on CF or SD card than on internal NAND flash. > > > > - Persistent storage of system logs and other runtime writable > >data. > > > > It should be possible to implement CF or SD card slot using > > a couple of GPIOs. > > > > A nice and useful feature is also onboard piezobuzzer like one on > > newer Mikrotik Routerboards. > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > openwrt-devel mailing list > > openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org > > https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11164 > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19904 > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15665 > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17790 > ___ > openwrt-devel mailing list > openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org > https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel > ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
Hi, > * SIM card slot for mini-PCI express would be great! > * Gigabit ethernet instead of FE. > * SDHC-slot or CF-Slot to complete the list for our needs: * the case should be DIN rail mountable * Powersupply should accept 24V for industrial usage * the SIM Reader should be accessible through a slot in the enclosure. I don't like the idea to open the case just for switching the SIM. * For the Alix.6b2 board we need 4 antenna holes 2x UMTS, 2x WLAN each with main and aux The idea of SATA-CF adapters is crap. For commercial use you need a ready-to-go device where you don't have to build in such stuff manually. Ideally I'd like to order it, plug in a CF card and boot it. bye, Markus ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] Introduce new router board
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:27:26PM +0300, Linkodas wrote: > Hi list/community, > > we would like to introduce new router supporting OpenWRT. > It is only in development stage and we are looking for community opinion > regarding its features and possibilities. There still currently a chance > to change something and take into community response. > This board is referenced to low-cost and low-power solutions. > Any comments and opinions are very welcome! > > Below are preliminary specifications: > > PCB form factor: Pico-ITX (10cm x 7.2cm, fanless) > > Onboard CPU: Cortina Systems CS3516 (300Mhz ARM9 Core) > Onboard DDR SDRAM: 128Mb 333Mhz 32bit > Onboard NAND FLASH: 128Mb (or more) > Onboard LAN: 2x 10/100Mbps Ethernet > Onboard SATA: 2x SATA > > Onboard connectors: 2x SATA, 2x mini-PCI slots, 1x mini-PCI Express > (with USB 2.0 interface), 1x UART, 1x Pico-ITX power, 1x JTAG, GPIO ports > > Back panel connectors: 2x RJ-45 LAN, 2x USB 2.0, 3x antenna (GSM, 3G, > Wifi, Wimax, other), 1x RS232 > > Management: Watch Dog Timer, Brown-out Reset, RTC with battery > > Operating system: OpenWRT with newest 2.6 Linux Kernel. > Bootloader: U-boot Sounds great. My wishlist: * SIM card slot for mini-PCI express would be great! * Gigabit ethernet instead of FE. * SDHC-slot or CF-Slot Dirk ___ openwrt-devel mailing list openwrt-devel@lists.openwrt.org https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-devel
