Re: Next news from Germany
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 01:05:50PM +0200, la710 wrote: > Hi Karsten and everyone, > im running a tor server, too (fractal) . Like many german tor server > this one is hosted by the popular ISP Hetzner (Bavaria). shrek2 is hosted at Hetzner as well. It's a throwaway tor appliance (but for a cryptome mirror I haven't put up yet). > Im getting strongly concerned about the online warrant discussion and > wanted to ask how you feel about it. I never > got any letters from the BKA; I dont run an exit node. Im thinking I stopped getting letters from them the moment I switched to middleman. > about quitting my ISP contract and move > my server to somewhere else (outside germany). Unless you're using a corporate off-shore front, it doesn't matter where you host your server as long as it is easily traceable to you. > Karsten can you give me or us some more details about your BKA > trouble. Do you think this is a test from the "Verfassungsschutz/BKA" > how far you can "exploit" the german law right now and after you, we > all will get letters the next month. I don't think so. > I somehow feel very unconfident about my situation running a tor > server and I want to be abit prepared about some kind of > storm thats maybe coming up. This is precisely the reaction the authorities want to happen. It does perhaps make sense to temporarily switch off tor until we know whether the law will be exploited to the last letter. > Greetings > Johannes -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: Next news from Germany
Hi Karsten and everyone, im running a tor server, too (fractal) . Like many german tor server this one is hosted by the popular ISP Hetzner (Bavaria). Im getting strongly concerned about the online warrant discussion and wanted to ask how you feel about it. I never got any letters from the BKA; I dont run an exit node. Im thinking about quitting my ISP contract and move my server to somewhere else (outside germany). Karsten can you give me or us some more details about your BKA trouble. Do you think this is a test from the "Verfassungsschutz/BKA" how far you can "exploit" the german law right now and after you, we all will get letters the next month. I somehow feel very unconfident about my situation running a tor server and I want to be abit prepared about some kind of storm thats maybe coming up. Greetings Johannes On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:52 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: Eugen Leitl wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 06:22:48PM +0300, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: It seems that way. I run more than one node in Germany and I don't have Which Bundesland? Don't try this in Bavaria... As I understand it, Frankfurt and Berlin are nice places to run a server or two. a problem. It's a sad state of affairs that people are being forced to shut down their nodes. I'm sorry the police are questioning you, I do hope that they'll eventually understand that they have nothing to gain by doing this. Of course they have plenty to win. No Tor exit nodes in Germany -- no problem. They can't win that battle. Tor is already adapting to stop blocking and this has an added benefit, it makes a great deal more nodes to seize. Then, iterate across the world. I'd like to make a comment about living in a free country but I've yet to really find one. I have some protection under the law but I realize that it's only as good as my ability to pay for lawyers. And/or make anonymizing services illegal, so only criminals have anonymity. This sounds like you need to ensure your government doesn't take this route. Or find a strong economic case for anonymous communication. And there's a very good chance this is going to work. I want to doubt you but I think it's possible. A serious crackdown could happen to a specific piece of software or protocol. It happened in Japan with Winny, right? I think that Tor is different but only time will tell. Regards, Jacob
Re: Next news from Germany
Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 06:22:48PM +0300, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: > >> It seems that way. I run more than one node in Germany and I don't have > > Which Bundesland? Don't try this in Bavaria... As I understand it, Frankfurt and Berlin are nice places to run a server or two. > >> a problem. It's a sad state of affairs that people are being forced to >> shut down their nodes. I'm sorry the police are questioning you, I do >> hope that they'll eventually understand that they have nothing to gain >> by doing this. > > Of course they have plenty to win. No Tor exit nodes in Germany -- no problem. > They can't win that battle. Tor is already adapting to stop blocking and this has an added benefit, it makes a great deal more nodes to seize. > Then, iterate across the world. > I'd like to make a comment about living in a free country but I've yet to really find one. I have some protection under the law but I realize that it's only as good as my ability to pay for lawyers. > And/or make anonymizing services illegal, so only criminals have anonymity. This sounds like you need to ensure your government doesn't take this route. Or find a strong economic case for anonymous communication. > And there's a very good chance this is going to work. I want to doubt you but I think it's possible. A serious crackdown could happen to a specific piece of software or protocol. It happened in Japan with Winny, right? I think that Tor is different but only time will tell. Regards, Jacob
Re: Next news from Germany
On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 06:22:48PM +0300, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: > It seems that way. I run more than one node in Germany and I don't have Which Bundesland? Don't try this in Bavaria... > a problem. It's a sad state of affairs that people are being forced to > shut down their nodes. I'm sorry the police are questioning you, I do > hope that they'll eventually understand that they have nothing to gain > by doing this. Of course they have plenty to win. No Tor exit nodes in Germany -- no problem. Then, iterate across the world. And/or make anonymizing services illegal, so only criminals have anonymity. And there's a very good chance this is going to work. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: Next news from Germany
Olaf Selke wrote: > Jacob Appelbaum wrote: >> I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble. > > we're used to have trouble running TOR exit gateways in Germany ;-) > > Today I've been questioned by the Police as well as by the German > Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution aka > "Verfassungsschutz" to provide infos regarding sessions originating from > my exit gateway anonymizer.blutmagie.de. > It seems that way. I run more than one node in Germany and I don't have a problem. It's a sad state of affairs that people are being forced to shut down their nodes. I'm sorry the police are questioning you, I do hope that they'll eventually understand that they have nothing to gain by doing this. Regards, Jacob
Re: Next news from Germany
Jacob Appelbaum wrote: > > I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble. we're used to have trouble running TOR exit gateways in Germany ;-) Today I've been questioned by the Police as well as by the German Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution aka "Verfassungsschutz" to provide infos regarding sessions originating from my exit gateway anonymizer.blutmagie.de. regards, Olaf
Re: Next news from Germany
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am a german TOR admin ("knuffel"). I have running a mixmaster remailer too
> ("awxcxn").
> Both were running on a dedicated root server.
>
> Half a year ago I have had my first trouble with the german BKA. The hoster
> of my
> server got a letter from the BKA and closed my server without any respect to
> the law.
> I contact the press an a few days later the server was back and online.
>
> A few month ago I got an anonymous tip, a telecommunication surveillance
> is/was
> running against me and I am listed in a "known" database.
I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble.
> I have a german website with some stuff about anonymity. It will go
> down in 2-3 weeks. May be, some german gay want to download and
> save some of my work. I will prepare an offline version of the website:
>
> http://www.anon-web.de
>
I have a copy of this website now. If you want to have someone else run
it, I'd be happy to host it. With or without the domain.
Regards,
Jacob
Re: Next news from Germany
Sorry to hear about your leaving but I believe this is the safest
thing to do at this point short of leaving the country. Thanks for
warning us and I encourage everybody else to do this. If you are going
to be leaving the tor community (you will stop running your server,
hidden service, mirror etc.) please let us know. You don't need to
leave an explanation (although it is helpful) but we just need to know
that you are safe.
Good luck,
Comrade Ringo Kamens
On 7/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I am a german TOR admin ("knuffel"). I have running a mixmaster remailer too
("awxcxn").
Both were running on a dedicated root server.
Half a year ago I have had my first trouble with the german BKA. The hoster of
my
server got a letter from the BKA and closed my server without any respect to
the law.
I contact the press an a few days later the server was back and online.
A few month ago I got an anonymous tip, a telecommunication surveillance is/was
running against me and I am listed in a "known" database.
Over the last months, I tried to figure out, what happens.
I contact the data protection official of Germany for help.
Like me, he did not get any information because the prosecution
denied any information with the reason:
"Any information will compromise the security of Germany or one of its parts."
( § 19 Absatz 6 Bundesdatenschutzgesetz )
I compromise the security of Germany, seems I am a terrorist or something like
that.
The anti-terrorism-law in Germany is not a joke, nothink I want to feel by
myself.
I contact a lawyer and he said, this is not a game, it is real!
Conclusion: The TOR node "knuffel" is down and will not come back.
Please remove it from the directory. All my contact addresses and online
identities related to this kind of stuff will be closed next time.
I have a german website with some stuff about anonymity. It will go
down in 2-3 weeks. May be, some german gay want to download and
save some of my work. I will prepare an offline version of the website:
http://www.anon-web.de
Greetings
Karsten N.
___
Jetzt neu! Schützen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 3 Monate
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Re: Next news from Germany
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:03:02 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I have a german website with some stuff about anonymity. It will go > down in 2-3 weeks. May be, some german gay want to download and > save some of my work. I will prepare an offline version of the > website: > > http://www.anon-web.de i've mirrored your site at https://anon-web.aioe.org/ which will be available in the next hours (you'll need the daily update of DNS cache). if you wish to continue to develop this site, i'm ready to offer you a sort of "hosting" that allows you to write it without legal risks. Note that the german law doesn't forbid to publish any kind of technical documentation so your site is still legal also in germany.
Next news from Germany
Hi,
I am a german TOR admin ("knuffel"). I have running a mixmaster remailer too
("awxcxn").
Both were running on a dedicated root server.
Half a year ago I have had my first trouble with the german BKA. The hoster of
my
server got a letter from the BKA and closed my server without any respect to
the law.
I contact the press an a few days later the server was back and online.
A few month ago I got an anonymous tip, a telecommunication surveillance is/was
running against me and I am listed in a "known" database.
Over the last months, I tried to figure out, what happens.
I contact the data protection official of Germany for help.
Like me, he did not get any information because the prosecution
denied any information with the reason:
"Any information will compromise the security of Germany or one of its parts."
( § 19 Absatz 6 Bundesdatenschutzgesetz )
I compromise the security of Germany, seems I am a terrorist or something like
that.
The anti-terrorism-law in Germany is not a joke, nothink I want to feel by
myself.
I contact a lawyer and he said, this is not a game, it is real!
Conclusion: The TOR node "knuffel" is down and will not come back.
Please remove it from the directory. All my contact addresses and online
identities related to this kind of stuff will be closed next time.
I have a german website with some stuff about anonymity. It will go
down in 2-3 weeks. May be, some german gay want to download and
save some of my work. I will prepare an offline version of the website:
http://www.anon-web.de
Greetings
Karsten N.
___
Jetzt neu! Schützen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 3 Monate
kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=00
