Re: Can someone please verify this for me?

2003-10-11 Thread Nuno Souto
- Original Message - 



 I haven't tried using these before, but I do notice that your
 'create role' syntax appears to be incorrect for this usage.
 

Sorry for the late reply, folks.  Rugby World Cup got
in the way...  :D

Yeah, found out what the problem was after all.
I assumed that authid definer was redundant (which
was the case I was trying to get to work), so I left it
out of the statement.  That caused the 6565 error.
Once I put authid current_user or authid definer
back in the statement, all was well.  

It appears that a SET ROLE only works in a procedure, 
IF one explicitly indicates the authid clause in
the procedure (or package) creation. Without that, it's 6565.
With it, all works fine.

Go figure...

Thanks a lot for all the help from all the replies,
too many for me to thank individually.


Now, to make this work with a login trigger...
Cheers
Nuno Souto
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Re: any ever work with Use Cases to model a database?

2003-10-11 Thread Nuno Souto
- Original Message - 



 What experiences have you had? If not what kind of requirements documents do you 
 use? Im particularly interested in
people who have worked on projects with relational back ends and object oriented front 
ends. It seems very difficult to
get these two models to work together cohesively.


We used RUP and URL models as well as their use cases.
Worked quite well. Once the BAs finished their URL object model
and use case models, it was a matter basically of the lead Java
designer and the lead Oracle designer getting together and hacking
out a preliminary logical data model into Designer.
Then the Oracle guys went away for a few days to hack out the
final design, which then got reviewed by the Java designers to make
sure it did everything they expected.  Then it was on to the usual
entity-table antics of Designer...

All the db interface was handled by PL/SQL packages, one per table
or logical object.  All access was through these, using object
types as parameters.  It works well with JDBC and is tremendously
fast.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
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Importing LOB segments

2003-10-11 Thread Joshua Becker
Hi there,

I have been importin 2gig of LOBs and it is extremely slow, is there any way how to speed up this process...

rgds
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CBO and cartesian product

2003-10-11 Thread Dilip
Hi List,

DB version - 8174. (Oracle Apps 11.5.4).

One of the customized report started running very slowly. One query was taking more 
than 3 GB of TEMP tablespace for 'HASH' type segment and erroring out after 2 hours 
for a lack of space in TEMP. 

Tkprof showed that it is doing Cartesian Sort Merge Join. 
After running the same report under RBO, it is using Nested loops and report is 
completing in just 5 minutes.
The stats were collected last week-end. I couldn't find any reason for this CBO's 
behavior ? Has anybody experienced this before ?

Thanks,
~Dilip


 



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Weblogic, thin driver and lob segments

2003-10-11 Thread Gunnar Berglund
Hi all,

we are facing some serious problems with the following case:

we have an application which stores quite a lot of documents to database (average document size is 2mb). Application loads document template from database and when we are having 100-200 hundred users there will be a queue on a weblogic server in order to wait to handle those documents and saving the updates to database.

Do you have any ideas how to do this faster or is there something we haven't realized.

TIA
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Re: Weblogic, thin driver and lob segments

2003-10-11 Thread Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha
Hi Gunnar,

Can you please turn on event# 10046 at level 8 and
trace some of your sessions? You can then run 9i
tkprof on the trace files, to determine the most
expensive SQL statements, from a resource consumption
and wait perspective.

I am sure there is enough expertise on this list to
figure out where the problem may be, if you did post
the tkprof output files.

Cheers,

Gaja
 
--- Gunnar Berglund [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Hi all,
  
 we are facing some serious problems with the
 following case:
  
 we have an application which stores quite a lot of
 documents to database (average document size is
 2mb). Application loads document template from
 database and when we are having 100-200 hundred 
 users there will be a queue on a weblogic server in
 order to wait to handle those documents and saving
 the updates to database.
  
 Do you have any ideas how to do this faster or is
 there something we haven't realized.
  
 TIA
 gb
 
 
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Principal Technical Product Manager, 
Application Performance Management, Veritas Corporation
E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Phone: (650)-527-3180
Website: http://www.veritas.com

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Re: CBO and cartesian product

2003-10-11 Thread Tim Gorman
Here is the short answer:
=

   * Set OPTIMIZER_INDEX_CACHING to 90
   * Make sure that DB_FILE_MULTIBLOCK_READ_COUNT is not overly high
   * Also, consider gathering column-level statistics on some of the
 indexed columns involved, especially if the query in question
 uses literal data values on them

Here is the long answer:


Starting in the 8i timeframe, the CBO started borrowing some techniques from
data warehouse STAR joins when confronted with any type of query that
traversed two different entity-relationship heirarchies starting from the
same table.

Say you have three tables (to keep it simple).  One table is a child
entity to the other two tables, which are both parent entities in ERD
terms.  The CBO detects that both parent tables are much smaller than the
child table.

OK, so there is no relationship between the two parent tables -- they are
both related only through the large child table.

Now, think about what traditional join methods are possible:

1) start with one of the parent tables as the driving table, do a
   indexed nested-loop range-scan during the join to the child table,
   and then perform indexed nested-loop unique-scan during the final
   join to the other parent table
2) reverse the order of option #1.  Start with the other parent
   table, join to the child, and then join up to the remaining parent
3) start with the child table and join up (via indexed unique-scans)
   to the two parent tables

The weak point of both of these options is probably the access of the child
table.  Plain and simple, it is difficult to efficiently get rows from it.
It is likely that the index supporting the foreign-key relationship from
either parent table is not very efficient by itself, resulting in a very
expensive range-scan, requiring a massive number of logical I/Os and cost
calculated by the CBO.

So, the CBO in 8i started utilizing another option, which initially blew my
mind first time I saw it happen.  It was the point which I realized that the
CBO was _way_ smarter than humans...

This additional option is to perform a cartesian join between the two
parent tables, to come up with one result set.  Then, using the filtered
cartesian result set from that join, the CBO probes into the large child
table using the _combined_ keys from both parent tables!

Rather brilliant choice, in most cases.  The cartesian join, despite
everybody's visceral fear of it, is actually rather insignificant if the two
parent tables are small.  And it is even smaller if there are good
filtering predicates on those tables in the WHERE clause.

So, instead of having to retrieve rows from the large child table using one
or the other of the relatively ineffective indexes supporting each foreign
key, the CBO merges and uses both keys, resulting in a far more effective
access method into the child table.

So, chances are good that this is the situation you are facing.  Is this
correct?  Can you verify the basic relationships between the tables
involved?

So, now the question is:  why did the CBO make the wrong choice?

First, the default setting of the OPTIMIZER_INDEX_CACHING parameter (i.e.
0) represents a flaw in the basic costing algorithm used by the CBO.
Setting the parameter to 90 or so fixes this flaw.  For a more detailed
explanation, please feel free to view my paper Search for Intelligent Life
in the CBO, available online at http://www.EvDBT.com/papers.htm;.

Changing that alone may cause the CBO to rethink its decision to go with the
derived STAR-join scheme involving a cartesian join, and instead choose the
indexed nested-loops scheme which is the __only__ possible choice by the
RBO.  By discounting the cost of index-based access methods, the CBO (which
considers _all_ possible access methods and chooses the one with the lowest
cost) may now choose the index-based plan.  Once again, the RBO only
considered the one plan, which in this case turned into a bit of luck for
the RBO, making it look good.

You can experiment with this parameter change using ALTER SESSION, if you
like.  This is one of the _few_ occasions on which changing a parameter
actually has an impact on performance.

There are some other parameter settings which may impact how the CBO costs
this query.  For example, if DB_FILE_MULTIBLOCK_READ_COUNT is set higher
than its default value of 8 or 16, then the CBO will think that access plans
involving FULL table scans are cheaper than they are.

Another possible cause for the CBO's bad decision is it's default assumption
that data values in a column are evenly distributed.  Gathering stats for
indexed columns only gathers the number of distinct keys and the low/high
values, by default.  Therefore, the CBO has no choice except to assume an
even distribution of data, that each distinct data value is used by an equal
number of rows.  Gathering column-level statistics creates histograms in
the data dictionary that 

Re: Weblogic, thin driver and lob segments

2003-10-11 Thread Stephane Faroult
Gunnar Berglund wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 we are facing some serious problems with the following case:
 
 we have an application which stores quite a lot of documents to
 database (average document size is 2mb). Application loads document
 template from database and when we are having 100-200 hundred  users
 there will be a queue on a weblogic server in order to wait to handle
 those documents and saving the updates to database.
 
 Do you have any ideas how to do this faster or is there something we
 haven't realized.
 
 TIA
 gb

Is saving to database really the thing to do in such a case? Can't you
just save pointers to the documents? Also, if I understand you well, in
MSWord-speak people load a .dot and save a .doc; do you really have to
save the formatted document? Couldn't you save something saying 'this is
the model' and 'this is the associated data'? In other words, use a
'style-sheet' logic? The really useful data in a document is often
something relatively small ...

-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
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RAC and Standby Dr

2003-10-11 Thread Rajesh . Rao
Folks,

A project team here is flirting with the idea of having standby databases
for the two production RAC nodes. The two standy nodes will be at a DR
site. Any gotchas with this configuration?

Regards
Raj

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Re: Optimizer related init parameters

2003-10-11 Thread Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha
Vivek and list,

I don't think any reasonable person will be able to
say with a high-level of certainty whether the values
that you have suggested, are optimal for your
environment. The answer is a huge - IT DEPENDS.

Having said that, here are some things you may want to
take into consideration:

1) From a functionality perspective
OPTIMIZER_INDEX_CACHING and OPTIMIZER_INDEX_COST_ADJ
were meant to do the same thing. It just happened to
end up as 2 different parameters with 2 different code
paths, which pretty much do the same(similar) thing.
So usually, it is enought to set either one or the
other, although setting both in my experience has
generated no harm.

So, if you want to optimizer to show bias towards
index scans, then setting OPTIMIZER_INDEX_CACHING to a
high value (90 or higher) will achieve that. Right now
your value of 50, tells the optimizer that only 50% of
the time, will it find index blocks in the DB buffer
cache. This will affect the optimizer's decision
making.

Tim Gorman has a very simple formula to calculate the
appropriate value on your system for
OPTIMZER_INDEX_COST_ADJ, stated in his paper
Searching for intelligence in the Oracle Optimizer
(or something to that effect) on his site
http://www.evdbt.com. It basically calculates a ratio
of the average time for db file sequential read/db
file scattered read from v$system_event, for your
system.

On a related topic, I think it is relevant to mention
here that to carte-blanche curtail full-table-scans,
may not work to the long-term benefit of your
applications. However, I will assume here that you are
aware of the core point - amount of logical I/O to
be the most important (if not only) determinant when
deciding whether FTS is better than index scans.

2) John Kanagaraj did some work and testing to
determine that setting OPTIMIZER_MAX_PERMUTATIONS to a
low value (2000 if I remember right), has a positive
impact on the plans that is generated, especially in
an Oracle Apps environment. You should check it out.

3) Julian Dyke and Steve Adams have performed some
good tests and research on OPTIMIZER_DYNAMIC_SAMPLING.
But, I think the jury is still out on what the optimal
value for this might be. I guess 4 is good enough.
But, realize that this parameter is relevant when you
have partial statistics in your schema. Otherwise, I
don't think there is any impact of this parameter.

Final notes:

1) All of these parameters can be set at the session
level. I would urge you to perform extensive tests
before making global init.ora changes.

2) At the end of the day, you should ask yourself, why
you are embarking on this effort of changing these
values. If you have enough trace data to warrant
these changes, then by all means. Otherwise, you may
be setting yourself up for surprises in the future.


Cheers,

Gaja
--- VIVEK_SHARMA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 How Good/advisable are the following 4 parameters'
 Values in a Hybrid
 Application?
 
 Are there any know ill-effects of the same?
 
  
 
 Application - Banking (Hybrid)
 
 Solaris 9 
 
 Oracle 9.2 
 
  
 
  
 
  optimizer_max_permutations=8000
  optimizer_index_cost_adj=10
  optimizer_index_caching=50
  optimizer_dynamic_sampling=4
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 Some INFO :-
 
 Database has 6000 Concurrent Users accessing 
 
 We do ONLY INDEX Scans with exceptional FTS .
 
 FTS if present occur only on SMALL Tables (a few
 Hundred Rows)
 
 FTS if unchecked greatly harm our performance
 
 Stripe Unit Size 64K
 
 Oracle Block Size 8K
 
  
 
 Will Give any info required
 
  
 
 Thanks
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 


=
Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha
Principal Technical Product Manager, 
Application Performance Management, Veritas Corporation
E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Phone: (650)-527-3180
Website: http://www.veritas.com

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Re: A funny thing happened today on the way to OraPerf.com ...

2003-10-11 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
Gaja, Anjo -

The question was: Is the data that users have uploaded to OraPerf now 
available to Veritas? It's a fair question that deserves more than a no 
need for any concern answer :-)..

Perhaps it would be good if Anjo explained why and how this happened. 
You know I love you, Gaja, but why the Hell should I suddenly contact 
you about Anjo's pet?

Mogens

Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha wrote:

Hi Paul,

Long time no talk/see. Hope things are well with you.
I personally don't think there is any need for concern
here. OraPerf still remains as a free analyzer, just
the way it did when it was Anjo's site. OraPerf is now
provided as a service, as part of the Veritas
Architect Network. The same old good stuff, with more
resources supporting the site. If you have any further
concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me -
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,

Gaja

--- Paul Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

and I ended up here:

http://oraperf.veritas.com/index.html

Hmm. so now Veritas has the statspack reports that I
uploaded previously.
I don't know what to think.
Maybe they'll see the source code, and the sales
staff will think - too far gone for any of our
utils and leave me alone?
Pd

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=
Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha
Principal Technical Product Manager, 
Application Performance Management, Veritas Corporation
E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Phone: (650)-527-3180
Website: http://www.veritas.com

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Re: Desupport of RBO

2003-10-11 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
I'm pretty sure that RBO is still there in 10g :-), but that it will not 
be enhanced, P2 and beyond issues won't be fixed, etc. But to be 
certain, I have asked Graham Wood.

Mogens

Cary Millsap wrote:

I'm pretty sure that RBO is *gone* in 10g. If I understood correctly
what I learned this week, there will be no more RBO, just one optimizer
code path called the Oracle Query Optimizer. Also, if I understand
correctly, the RULE hint will have exactly the same functionality as
the HEY, DUDE hint: none.
...But I haven't tested it.

Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com
Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:49 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
i dont think they are totally removing the RBO from 10g. Ive seen
conflicting reports. I think tom kyte hinted that it is gone, then I
read somewhere else that its still going to be there. 

RBO is necessary if you use layered complex views. CBO often times
doesnt hold up. Its a pretty bad design. But some people use it. I see
it mostly with cross-platform apps. They tell you to always use RBO.  

if the RBO is totally gone they will need to totally re-architecture
their products. So I dont know if Oracle will do this.
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/10/07 Tue PM 02:04:31 EDT
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Desupport of RBO
OK, dumb question.  Does this mean the rule hint won't be possible? 
Application I support mostly uses CBO but there have been cases where
   

we had to
 

resort to RBO hint.  'course it'll be some time before we can consider
   

v10...
 

Kip

|Hi Jared,

|haven't seen it, too. But the fact
|was spreaded over the newsgroups.
|We still have some 3rd party apps that don't use
|*any* feature above Oracle 7 (well, almost). Queries with
|the RULE hint where it's not necessary.
|But if we change a thing, support will be lost.
|So we decided to rewrite the whole app.
|Lucky me: enough work for the next years.
|Greetings,
|Guido
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07.10.2003  01.34 Uhr 
|First time I've seen this note:  189702.1
|Jared

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Re: Using ' in Update statement

2003-10-11 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
Tom has a small staff to help him answer the questions. I find the 
comment from Raj to be less than fair and intelligent - or we all 
misunderstood what he meant (including me).

Mogens

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't know whether Tom does all of the asktom site on his
own time, but I doubt it.
His website doesn't do much to hurt sales of his book, so he
also has a greater financial interest.  Money is a good motivator.
Tom is also a VP at Oracle, and does some pretty good PR
for his employer via his web site.  I imagine he is able to spend
more time on the job answering questions than what would be
practical for most people on this list.
Many of us answer questions here for a variety of reasons.

Here's my list of reasons:

* it's an interesting topic
* it's a topic that covers something I need to do
* it's a topic that is not easily answered from the manuals, and
  the person posing the question could use some help.
* it's a topic regarding something I have already learned to solve
* I will learn something by participating
The last one covers many more threads than I could possibly
be involved in, so I try to limit it to those that will be of use to
me somehow.
Jared





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 10/10/2003 12:54 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L
	   
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Subject:RE: Using ' in Update statement





You guys are mean !! Tom Kyte would have given me 10 ways of writing
the statement, would have traced every one of them under different 
versions
and on different platforms, pointed out the number of logical reads,
elapsed time, et all, and told me which one is better.

Regards
Raj


  
   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   
   disys.comTo: Multiple recipients of 
list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   Sent by: cc:   
   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Subject: RE: Using ' in 
Update statement  
   ity.com 
   
  
   
  
   
   10/10/2003 
   
   01:54 PM   
   
   Please respond 
   
   to ORACLE-L 
   
  
   
  
   





What he said.

 
  Mladen Gogala  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To:Multiple recipients of
  Sent by:  list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:  
Subject:RE: Using ' in
Update statement  
   10/10/2003 09:14 AM
   Please respond to ORACLE-L
 





Here is the reason for that: this list would not be useful to
me if it was devoted to answering beginner's questions. List
would get flooded, I would stop reading as would many other
people. It has already happened. This list is a very valuable resource
to me and I would hate to lose it to the people asking things
like how to set prompt in sqlplus. Usenet groups are the proper place
for that.
People can learn the basics by reading books and manuals and I don't
have much sympathy for the people who don't want to read but post their
questions to this list instead. I am trying to help when I think that
help is needed, but I am also trying to discourage trivial questions
asked for 10th time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing for my actions, I'm just
explaining them. This is my last reply in this thread because I don't
intend to create a flame war on this list. 

Re: FW: Oracle Performance Software from Veritas

2003-10-11 Thread Mogens Nørgaard
It went very well. Gaja was flying, and it was good to see 15 members of 
the OakTable playing air guitar at the same time on stage.

The girls were crazy with Gaja, and for good reasons. I have decided to 
make a musical next year, too. This massive mass of talent must not be 
wasted.

Mogens

PS: The whole thing was videoed, but I'm waiting for the stuff from the 
guy that did it.

Rachel Carmichael wrote:

and how WAS the musical? jgps, mp3 files please

--- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

May I just add that his real name is Gaja Vahatneyhatneyhatney. That
is 
what I called him in BAARF. The Musical..

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   

Our good friend Gaja Vaidyanatha is now with Veritas,
so this isn't really too surprising.  :)
Jared





*David Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED]*
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10/06/2003 01:59 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
	   
   To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   cc:
   Subject:FW: Oracle Performance Software from
 

Veritas
   



Just got this email from Veritas...apparently they are getting into
 

the database performance business for Oracle (and SQL Server too I 
think).

Best regards,

*David B. Wagoner*
Database Administrator
Arsenal Digital Solutions
the most trusted source for
  STORAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES
The contents of this e-mail message may be privileged and/or 
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return e-mail or by telephone (919-466-6700), and please delete
 

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message and all attachments from your system.
Thank you.
-Original Message-*
From:* VERITAS Software [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2003 3:40 PM*
To:* David Wagoner*
Subject:* Trial Software for Oracle environment
 	  	  	 
	  		 
		
 	  	
/#

*Do something about it.*

*_Download_* http://www.veritas.com/offer?a_id=3851* a free trial
 

of 
   

VERITAS Indepth(tm) for Oracle.*

Easier said than done. Usually it's difficult, if not impossible,
 

to 
   

pinpoint the root cause of performance slowdowns. Countless hours
 

are 
   

spent troubleshooting and analyzing applications with few results
 

to 
   

show for it.

*That's about to change. *With VERITAS Indepth for Oracle, you can 
identify specific application bottlenecks, resolve them faster, and
 

maintain promised service levels to users.

Download VERITAS Indepth for Oracle to see how you can:

   * *Monitor* the Oracle environment continuously and capture
 performance data for current, short term, and long-term
 performance analysis.
   * *Drill down and identify* a performance problem caused by a
 resource bottleneck or a poorly written SQL statement.
   * *Resolve performance problems* faster with detailed steps and
 displays statistics relevant to each step in the Oracle
 

access
   

 path.

 *_Download Now_* http://www.veritas.com/offer?a_id=3851

	  	 
		
		
		


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VERITAS Software, 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043, United
 

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We welcome your comments. Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]






 

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