Re: Offshore protests

2003-09-22 Thread Ed Lewis
t;>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>demanding better
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>pay
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>for
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>starved database
> >>>>>>administrators. What do you think, should we mandate
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>9i OCP for
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>joining
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>union? If we were
> >>>>>>in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>White Heart pub
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>(or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>Purvis and
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>exchange the union stories.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>Mladen Gogala
> >>>>>>Oracle DBA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>-Original Message-
> >>>>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM
> >>>>>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>>>>>Subject: Offshore protests
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>protesting.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>Dennis Williams
> >>>>>>>DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> >>>>>>>Lifetouch, Inc.
> >>>>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >>>>>>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>Author: Orr, Steve
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Re: URGENT REPORTS

2003-09-26 Thread Ed Lewis



Gene,    
    Good stuff. Thanks for the tip.
        ed

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gene Sais 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:29 
  PM
  Subject: RE: URGENT REPORTS
  
  What I like about VNC, is that all you need for a client is a 
  browser.  http://ip.address:5800 
  gets you a nice java client connection.
  Gene>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/24/03 
  06:14PM >>>If y'all do choose a VNC route, I'd highly recommend 
  the free and GPL'dTightVNC from http://www.tightvnc.com/Better 
  compression, better security, and better performance then 
  otherRFB-compliant VNC flavors.RichRich 
  Jesse   
  System/Database 
  Administrator[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA-Original 
  Message-Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:20 PMTo: Multiple 
  recipients of list ORACLE-LSetting up vnc server and directing 
  DISPLAY to that is easier, I think. Ihave a Apps reports server setup 
  which has run for few years for now withvnc server.Tanel.-- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: 
  Jesse, Rich  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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Re: Upgrade gotchas - 8.1.7.4->9.2.0.3 on Windows

2003-06-19 Thread Ed Lewis
Title: Upgrade gotchas - 8.1.7.4->9.2.0.3 on Windows



Lisa,
    Just a follow-up question. 

I've set the ORA_SID_PFILE parameter in 
the
registry, but do not use a password file. 
When I start up the database it looks for the 
PFILE in the default directory instead of the 
path
specified in the registry. So, I'm required 
to
provide the  "pfile= " in my startup command, 
or
place the "pfile" in the default 
directory.
 
From what I understand, the value of 
ORA_SID_PFILE
in the registry will be used at database 
startup
automatically, so the "pfile = " parameter 
is
not required. Is this correct ?
 
I've checked metalink, but have been 
unsuccessful
in finding a solution. 
        
                
        thanks.
        
        ed
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Koivu, Lisa 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:40 
  PM
  Subject: Upgrade gotchas - 
  8.1.7.4->9.2.0.3 on Windows
  
  Thought I'd let you know since a couple of people 
  are planning upgrades to 9.2 on Windows (that I've heard from) - here's the 
  gotchas I ran into with my upgrade.  The databases were fine but other 
  stuff broke, of course.
  After upgrading, there's crap left in the registry 
  that refers to the older version of Oracle.  Backup Exec doesn't like 
  that.  I had to delete the old oracle_home out of the registry and 
  reboot. Suddenly all my backups were working.  Of course I only run one 
  oracle_home so I was able to remove this entry without consequence.
  Also, the install doesn't set the right path for 
  SQLPATH:  it sets it to a unix directory, \dbs.  Once I changed it 
  to OH\bin, my perl scripts were able to connect to sqlplus. They were failing 
  before...
  It also doesn't set ORA_sid_PWFILE at all.  
  This value needs to be there and be correct if you want to run startup without 
  specifying the pfile on the command line.
  I'm not getting any emails from the list for some 
  reason so I don't know if this will be well received... but I hope this helps 
  at least one person. 
  Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Stressmonkey    Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. 
  Lauderdale, FL, USA  33063 Office: 
  954-935-4117  Fax:    
  954-935-3639 Cell:    
  954-683-4459 
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  sender's business entity is not liable for any loss or damage arising in any 
  way from this message or its attachments."-- Please see 
  the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: 
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"union all" problems

2003-07-31 Thread Ed Lewis



Hi,
    We have a query which 
uses
a "union all".  After upgrading 
to
a patch release of Oracle this query
no  longer works. We get the
following error :
ERROR at line 1:ORA-03113: end-of-file on 
communication channel
ORA-24323: value not allowedError accessing package 
DBMS_APPLICATION_INFOERROR:ORA-03114: not connected to ORACLE
 
I've searched metalink, but have been unsuccessful
finding a solution.
 
As a quick fix, we changed the "union all" to a "union",
and that worked.
We'll still like to find the root cause though.
 
The environment is AIX 4.3.3.  It worked with
Oracle 8.1.7.2, but after upgrading to 8.1.7.4
we get this error.
 
Has anyone experienced this ? thanks.
 
        ed
 


Re: "union all" problems

2003-08-01 Thread Ed Lewis



Yes, this is a trace file that 
contains
ORA-07445: exception encountered: core 
dump...
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jamadagni, Rajendra 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 3:39 
  PM
  Subject: RE: "union all" problems
  
  What does the trace file says on the server ??? do you see a ora-7445 
  trace file?
   
  Raj
   
  Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot 
  com All Views expressed in this 
  email are strictly personal. QOTD: 
  Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art ! 
  
-Original Message-----From: Ed Lewis 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:59 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
"union all" problems
Hi,
    We have a query which 
uses
a "union all".  After upgrading 
to
a patch release of Oracle this 
query
no  longer works. We get the
following error :
ERROR at line 1:ORA-03113: end-of-file 
on communication channel
ORA-24323: value not allowedError accessing package 
DBMS_APPLICATION_INFOERROR:ORA-03114: not connected to ORACLE
 
I've searched metalink, but have been unsuccessful
finding a solution.
 
As a quick fix, we changed the "union all" to a "union",
and that worked.
We'll still like to find the root cause though.
 
The environment is AIX 4.3.3.  It worked with
Oracle 8.1.7.2, but after upgrading to 8.1.7.4
we get this error.
 
Has anyone experienced this ? thanks.
 
        ed
 


Re: AIX 4.3.3 / 8.1.7 & Timed Statistics & Tuning Question

2003-02-06 Thread Ed Lewis
Title: AIX 4.3.3 / 8.1.7 & Timed Statistics & Tuning Question



Lisa,
    We've been using 
timed_statistics=true
at our site for over 
a year, without any problems.
 
        
ed

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Koivu, Lisa 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:23 
  AM
  Subject: AIX 4.3.3 / 8.1.7 & Timed 
  Statistics & Tuning Question
  
  Good morning everyone - 
  Quick poll for those of you on 8.1.7 and AIX 
  4.3.3:  
  Do you have TIMED_STATISTICS = true?  Have you 
  encountered any problems with it? 
  The databases I inherited have this set false all 
  over the place, hence my tuning efforts are really limited.  However I 
  don't want to change it without checking around first. 
  And a tuning question: 
  This environment (peoplesoft) is very very low on 
  memory.  When the app servers and databases are up there's less than 50MB 
  of memory free.  Adding hardware is not a choice here. 
  The databases have 100MB set for the SGA.  It 
  really looks like not much thought went into some of the parm settings.  
  
  What I've read about tuning says that you must have 
  a goal in mind.  Well, afaik nothing is "broken", nothing is suffering - 
  then again, no one really paid much attention to Oracle.  It was up, 
  fine, move on.  Am I on the wrong path if my goal for tuning is to figure 
  out if I can reduce the size of the SGA and redo logs without adversely 
  affecting performance? 
  Any comments are appreciated.  Thanks everyone 
  
  Lisa Koivu Oracle Dingbat Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 
  Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, 
  USA  33063 Office: 954-935-4117  
  Fax:    954-935-3639 
  Cell:    954-683-4459 



Re: DBArtisan

2003-03-03 Thread Ed Lewis
Suzy,
We use it here, but only for Oracle.
I highly recommend it. It's very useful
for everyday tasks,  for reverse-engineering 
database objects, as well as other things. 
The support has also been good.


- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:08 AM


> 
> Anyone using DBArtisan?  Any good/bad feedback about this product?  
> Someone in our office is looking at the Cross-Platform version that
> works with Oracle, Sybase and MSSQL.
> 
> Thanks,
> Suzy
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Suzy Vordos
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Re: Re:Resource Management

2002-10-18 Thread Ed Lewis
Dick,
 Which version of Oracle ?
Was your test with 2 different user ID's ?
Our problem is that all users log on
with the same user id, which seems
to diminish the product's effectiveness.

thanks.
ed


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:54 PM


> Kirti,
>
> I've toyed with the product due to a perceived need here.  The
experiment
> was to have two users loggin to the database both running very nasty
queries (we
> have the GOD of obfuscated SQL here).  On the first pass, with no resource
> management in place both queries ran successfully in 30 minutes but boy
did the
> server take a hit (4 processors with < 10% idle across them).  On the
second
> pass we put resource management in place for one user really clamping down
on
> it.  The first user's query completed in 10 minutes where as the second
user
> took 45 minutes to complete and the server didn't even break a sweat (one
> processor was 100% idle throughout).  I'd like to do more with it, but
> PeopleSoft does things in a way the precludes resource manager from being
> effective.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Deshpande; Kirti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   10/18/2002 8:00 AM
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> Anyone using Oracle's Database Resource Manager?
> Does it really work as outlined in the Docs?
> Care to share your experience?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Kirti
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Deshpande, Kirti
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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export with "first rows"

2002-08-15 Thread Ed Lewis



Hello,
    We have the optimizer mode set 
to "first rows"
on our (25gb) database to meet a vendor 
requirement. 
When I do an 
"direct" export, it runs for 6-7 hours.
 
When I change the optimizer mode to "choose" 
it
runs in around an hour.
It also runs in an hour when I set 
the the optimizer
mode to "first rows", and run stats on the 
"sys" schema.
 
I'm curious why this occurs. Has anyone 
experienced
this ? Any ideas why this happens ? Is this normal 
behavior ?
I could not find anything on metalink. 
thanks.
 
Oracle 8.1.7.2, aix 4.3.3.
 
        
    ed  


controlling CPU usage through Oracle

2002-08-27 Thread Ed Lewis



Hi,
    I'm looking for a way to control 
CPU usage of
particular queries on a database.
    After exploring, and 
implementing ways of optimizing the code,
these queries can run anywhere from 45 
seconds
to 2 minutes.  
    This database is 1 of 5 on this 
box. So, although it's important
to build effective queries, it's also important in 
this 
environment that these queries do not impact the 
other
4 databases. 
    What I want to do is place a 
limit on CPU usage
without terminating the query. I've looked at 
profiles
with the "cpu_per_call" and "cpu_per_session" 
settings.
I have never used profiles, but from what I 
understand, 
these will kill the session once they reach a 
threshold.
    I'm also looking at database 
resource management.
This may be more appropriate for this 
situation.
    Has anyone used this, and if so 
what are you
experiences ? Would you recommend it ?
Would the only way to 
control CPU usage on this
box, be through the operating system ?
 
I welcome any suggestions. I appreciate your 
time.
 
The environment is Oracle 8.1.7.2, AIX 
4.3.3.
 


Re: controlling CPU usage through Oracle

2002-08-28 Thread Ed Lewis



Raj,
    Thanks for your 
input.
From what I understand with profiles, 
the session will be terminated once a 
threshold is reached.
    In this particular case, I 
cannot 
terminate the session. I need to be 
able
to control the CPU usage of a session, 
without
ending it. 
 If this cannot be done 
within Oracle, then
maybe it can be accomplished through the 
OS.
 
        
thanks.
        
                
ed
 
 
        
         

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jamadagni, Rajendra 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:48 
  PM
  Subject: RE: controlling CPU usage 
  through Oracle
  
  You could use profiles to control CPU usage as well, more info is in 
  manuals.
   
  Raj
  __
  Rajendra 
  Jamadagni  
      MIS, ESPN Inc.
  Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN 
  dot com
  Any opinion expressed here is 
  personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. 
  QOTD: Any clod can have facts, 
  but having an opinion is an 
  art!
  
-Original Message-From: Ed Lewis 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:18 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
controlling CPU usage through Oracle
Hi,
    I'm looking for a way to 
control CPU usage of
particular queries on a database.
    After exploring, and 
implementing ways of optimizing the code,
these queries can run anywhere from 45 
seconds
to 2 minutes.  
    This database is 1 of 5 on 
this box. So, although it's important
to build effective queries, it's also important 
in this 
environment that these queries do not impact 
the other
4 databases. 
    What I want to do is place a 
limit on CPU usage
without terminating the query. I've looked at 
profiles
with the "cpu_per_call" and "cpu_per_session" 
settings.
I have never used profiles, but from what I 
understand, 
these will kill the session once they reach a 
threshold.
    I'm also looking at database 
resource management.
This may be more appropriate for this 
situation.
    Has anyone used this, and if 
so what are you
experiences ? Would you recommend it 
?
Would the only way to 
control CPU usage on this
box, be through the operating system 
?
 
I welcome any suggestions. I appreciate your 
time.
 
The environment is Oracle 8.1.7.2, AIX 
4.3.3.
 


Re: rman question(allocating channels)

2002-08-28 Thread Ed Lewis



Joe,
    I have the same situation.
I my case I used 2 channels, and
so around a 25-30% decrease in
the backup time for a 30gb database.
   Once I increased it to 3 
channels
the payback was minimal. It also
became very cpu intensive, 
so I kept the setting at 2.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JOE 
  TESTA 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:38 
  AM
  Subject: rman question(allocating 
  channels)
  
  I've tried to find this in the docs to no avail.
   
  If I'm writing out an RMAN backup to one disk(yes this is not ideal), 
  then does it make sense to allocate multiple channels?
   
  Are multiple channels related to CPUs or to destinations?
   
  thanks, joe
   
   


Re: Re[2]: controlling CPU usage through Oracle

2002-08-29 Thread Ed Lewis

Kevin,
Thanks for your input.
Just to clarify;  I only want to control this
one database. I want to limit its resources
so it does not impact the other 4 databases on
the box. So, in that case would resource
manager be beneficial ?
Also, besides profiles, and resource manager,
does anyone know of any other tools provided
by Oracle which would limit resources ?
Or, any 3rd party tools that my be beneficial ?

I thank everyone for providing their input;
it's much appreciated.


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:23 PM


I don't think Resource Manager is going to do the trick here (I just read
about it over the last week while preparing for OCP exam 4).  Resource
Manager would work great for a single database but Ed is trying to divvy up
resources between 5 databases.

I don't have any good solution.  I suppose if everything running on this one
database was less important than anything on the other 4 databases, you
could renice the one database.  I think that would be ok provided all
components of the one database were at the same nice level.

Kevin Kennedy
First Point Energy Corporation

If you take RAC out of Oracle you get OLE!  What can this mean?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 9:52 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

-Original Message-
From: Ed Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: controlling CPU usage through Oracle


Hi,
I'm looking for a way to control CPU usage of
particular queries on a database.
After exploring, and implementing ways of optimizing the code,
these queries can run anywhere from 45 seconds
to 2 minutes.
This database is 1 of 5 on this box. So, although it's important
to build effective queries, it's also important in this
environment that these queries do not impact the other
4 databases.
What I want to do is place a limit on CPU usage
without terminating the query. I've looked at profiles
with the "cpu_per_call" and "cpu_per_session" settings.
I have never used profiles, but from what I understand,
these will kill the session once they reach a threshold.
I'm also looking at database resource management.
This may be more appropriate for this situation.
Has anyone used this, and if so what are you
experiences ? Would you recommend it ?
Would the only way to control CPU usage on this
box, be through the operating system ?

I welcome any suggestions. I appreciate your time.

The environment is Oracle 8.1.7.2, AIX 4.3.3.

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Re: Re:RE: Re[2]: controlling CPU usage through Oracle

2002-08-29 Thread Ed Lewis

Dick and Dennis,
The application here is the same, where all
users are logged in as the same user via
the application server.
But in my case, I want to throttle all the
users who use this id. Wouldn't ORM be beneficial in that
situation ? thanks.

ed

> Dennis,
>
> You've got that right.  Damned PeopleSoft!  We were hoping we might be
able
> to leverage ORM to control PeopleSorft query users.  No such luck since
everyone
> is PeopleSoft.  Now on the other hand, if you've got the LUXURY of having
people
> logged in with their own usernames you certainly can throttle down those
you
> want, almost to a crawl.
>
dick goulet

> Dick - My understanding is that Oracle Resource Manager controls resources
> based on userid. In other words, if a third-party application or an
> application server uses the same Oracle userid for access, then Oracle
> Resource Manager wouldn't help much. Is that what you've seen?
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
>
> Ed,
>
> The only way your going to do this is through Oracle Resource Manager.
> You'll need an 8.1.x Enterprise database.  Then you can setup your
resource
> plans and groups to manage who gets how much CPU at a time.  Any of the
> operating level tools out there cannot get down to the level of
granularity
> your
> asking for since all of the activity happens within Oracle.  All those
tools
> can
> do is control the amount of CPU that Oracle gets which has a global effect
> that
> hampers all users of the database.
>
> Dick Goulet

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Re: Re:RE: Re[2]: controlling CPU usage through Oracle

2002-08-29 Thread Ed Lewis
Title: RE: Re:RE: Re[2]: controlling CPU usage through Oracle



Tony,
    No, as of now it does not have 
that functionality.
    Thanks for your 
input.
        
   ed

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aponte, Tony 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 1:33 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Re:RE: Re[2]: controlling 
  CPU usage through Oracle
  
  Just some thoughts.  Does your OS have any domain 
  partitioning features that you can use to create separate "servers"?  You 
  could carve out a portion of the CPU resources into a small domain and 
  dedicate it to your problem child.  The net effect would be to throttle 
  the problem database by denying it the resources used by the 
others.
  How about using processor sets do achieve the same 
  thing.  I'm thinking along the lines of two sets, one with a very low 
  number of CPU's.  You would then bind your problem child to the small set 
  and the rest to the other.
  HTH Tony Aponte 



visual workbench problem

2002-07-10 Thread Ed Lewis



Hello,
    I'm installing "Oracle's Visual 
Workbench
for Oracle Procedural gateways for IBM 
Mqseries"
version 8.0.4.1.0 on W2k. (that's a 
mouthful)
 
When I run the program I get the 
following error : 
"error while connecting to the repository, protocol 
violation"
 
I searched metalink for a solution, and one 
recommendation
was to replace the "class111.zip" from the 
install,
with the 8.1.7 version of the same 
file.
 
After doing that, I ran the program and got the 
following :
 
"the database has no (compatible) repository 
installed.
  Do you want to install/upgrade a repository 
? "
At this point I was not allowed to respond; the 
response
was "greyed-out".
 
The repository though is created and is 
running
on AIX, Oracle 8.1.7.2.
 
I was also able to connect to the repository from 
my client
using sqlplus.
 
Any help is appreciated. thanks.
 
        
    ed 
 
 


aix tools

2001-08-24 Thread Ed Lewis



Hi,
   Can anyone tell me where I 
can
download a copy of "top" to run on
aix 4.3.3 ?
   thanks for your help.
 
        
    ed lewis
   


backup of large databases

2001-10-26 Thread Ed Lewis



Hello,
    I'm curious how people handle 
the backups for
    large/very large databases; 
200gb or greater.
  
    My questions are not targeted 
towards any
    specific hardware platform, but 
we are using
    Oracle 8.1.7. I'm assuming that 
archiving is enabled.
 
Are backups done 
nightly, or because of
    time constraints are they done 
weekly ?
If weekly, do you feel 
comfortable having to possibly
    apply a week of archives, in the case of a recovery ?
  
    Do you use disk or tape 
?
  
Do you use RMAN or other 
backup tools ?
 
What are 
the customer's expections for recovery and
how do they effect your 
backup strategy ? 
 
    I appreciate your 
input.
 
    
ed