RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, Any thoughts on the partitioning schemes I mentioned? Wouldn't this reduce the load on the daemon? In addition, might the daemon be processor affinitied or nice'd to a better level? I smell a solution, mate. I am most curious to hear your thoughts.. - Ross -Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 6:09 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Thanks for the input, Ross. As far as data corruption goes, it's neither semantic nor physical (well, there can be some semantic corruption in certain circumstances, but they're being worked on. We call them "bugs" here.) :>) Our developers seem to have inadvertantly gotten a grasp on the concept of an atomic transaction, and have coded many, many of them. As you know, MySQL does not do referential integrity, so all of our referential integrity is done at the application level. What appears to be happening is that during periods of heavy load the MySQL daemon occasionally gets confused in the midst of an "atomic" transaction and parts of the transaction are committed to the database while parts aren't. In fact, during periods of heavy load the MySQL daemon just gives up the ghost and dies. This is what we believe causes the data corruption. BTW, there's no concept of a rollback in MySQL, either. That can be a problem when a transaction doesn't complete. :>) Could we really be seeing semantic or physical corruption and not realizing it? Well, maybe. But, we've moved our biggest, most active customers from MySQL to Oracle and their data corruption problems disappear. MySQL definitely has its place in the world, and it had a place in ours back before we had customers beating on our databases. But, we're growing up now, and like all grown-up guys we're looking for bigger, more expensive toys. Oracle certainly fits that bill. :>) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:21 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, Love that last line. But, i'll resist the temptation to bite the bait. For you other stuff, i've embedded some newbie comments below...stuff you've likely seen, heard, or thought about before. thx Ross -Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 3:27 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service In addition, since MySQL has no concept of a transaction or rollback, data corruption is a constant problem. || Huh? Semantic corruption due to lack of developer transaction control is one thing. Actual, physical corruption is a CONTROLLER or DISK problem. Or izzit something else? Your developers should be able to manage transactions on the client, hell, all Oracle does is put x-action control in the db so the developers need to think less ( "less", not "not at all") about it.. If you are talking about a hardware problem, you gotta fix that...if it is semantic..i.e. code stepping on 'in flight' data, have a real sit down with your developers.
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Hang on to your wallets. Oracle announced that the latest returns would not meet the market expectations. Real $.10 Market $.12 stock dropped to $17 and change this morning. Maybe it was a fallout from BILL C@$$#&# ROR mª¿ªm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Thanks for the input, Ross. As far as data corruption goes, it's neither semantic nor physical (well, there can be some semantic corruption in certain circumstances, but they're being worked on. We call them "bugs" here.) :>) Our developers seem to have inadvertantly gotten a grasp on the concept of an atomic transaction, and have coded many, many of them. As you know, MySQL does not do referential integrity, so all of our referential integrity is done at the application level. What appears to be happening is that during periods of heavy load the MySQL daemon occasionally gets confused in the midst of an "atomic" transaction and parts of the transaction are committed to the database while parts aren't. In fact, during periods of heavy load the MySQL daemon just gives up the ghost and dies. This is what we believe causes the data corruption. BTW, there's no concept of a rollback in MySQL, either. That can be a problem when a transaction doesn't complete. :>) Could we really be seeing semantic or physical corruption and not realizing it? Well, maybe. But, we've moved our biggest, most active customers from MySQL to Oracle and their data corruption problems disappear. MySQL definitely has its place in the world, and it had a place in ours back before we had customers beating on our databases. But, we're growing up now, and like all grown-up guys we're looking for bigger, more expensive toys. Oracle certainly fits that bill. :>) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:21 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, Love that last line. But, i'll resist the temptation to bite the bait. For you other stuff, i've embedded some newbie comments below...stuff you've likely seen, heard, or thought about before. thx Ross -Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 3:27 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service In addition, since MySQL has no concept of a transaction or rollback, data corruption is a constant problem. || Huh? Semantic corruption due to lack of developer transaction control is one thing. Actual, physical corruption is a CONTROLLER or DISK problem. Or izzit something else? Your developers should be able to manage transactions on the client, hell, all Oracle does is put x-action control in the db so the developers need to think less ( "less", not "not at all") about it.. If you are talking about a hardware problem, you gotta fix that...if it is semantic..i.e. code stepping on 'in flight' data, have a real sit down with your developers.
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Walt,
Love
that last line. But, i'll resist the temptation to bite the bait.
For
you other stuff, i've embedded some newbie comments
below...stuff you've likely seen, heard, or thought about
before.
thx
Ross
-Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 3:27
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
It's the transaction/activity rate that causes MySQL to go in the tank.
Our products are web applications and some of our hosted sites see hundreds of
thousands of hits a day. There are a few tables in our main application that
are constantly being updated by each hit (web page request). Since MySQL has
table-level locking only, performance can tank during peak periods.
|| Can mild db/application changes
be made to "spread the pain"? e.g. instead of updating "THE" , "order"
table,
add a key ( or use an
existing one!) to manually partition the table by date...by region...by
product typeby
order type...by
*customer*.or by more than one of the precedingthen, "after hours",
you can coalesce all
the "region"
tables back into one big grandaddy.
OR
|| if it really is just a few tables,
have you thoroughly investigated Solid State Disk? You can get
some
incredible speed ups
thereat a minimum, it can buy you time to do your app/db
tweaks
In
addition, since MySQL has no concept of a transaction or rollback, data
corruption is a constant problem.
|| Huh?
Semantic corruption due to lack of developer transaction control is one thing.
Actual, physical corruption
is a CONTROLLER or
DISK problem. Or izzit something else? Your developers should be able to
manage
transactions on the
client, hell, all Oracle does is put x-action control in the db so the
developers need to
think less ( "less",
not "not at all") about it.. If you are talking about a hardware
problem, you gotta fix
that...if it is
semantic..i.e. code stepping on 'in flight' data, have a real sit down with
your developers.
We have a cron job
that runs isamchk on a regular basis for our larger customers to try and nip
the corruption problems in the bud. Nevertheless, our Hosting Sysadmins spend
a good portion of each day fixing MySQL corruption problems.
|| i don't have the knowledge
to parse this, or to relate it to the
foregoing
Fortunately our product has an Oracle API, so we've moved a number of
our larger customers to Oracle. Their site performance is a bit slower overall
-- our products are "optimized" for MySQL -- but their performance no longer
completely tanks during peak periods and there is no data corruption at
all.
||
ok..
So
now we've decided to ramp up our Oracle usage (this is one of the reasons I
was hired) but since we are a young and relatively cash-poor company the
Mucky-mucks are hesitant about Oracle's cost. But then we show them what MySQL
is doing to our hosting environment and they become stressed out about losing
customers. The "between a rock and a hard place" scenario has sent them into
paroxysms of fear, because they realize they might actually have to quit using
free stuff and start spending money to keep up with the growing demand for the
company's products. They long for the good old days of a couple of years ago
when there were no customers, lots of venture capital, and the newly-created
products ran great on E-machines, Linux, and MySQL.
I guess you can say that we're suffering through the pain of
transitioning from an internet startup to a mature, growing company with a
seemingly bright future. It is not unlike going through puberty.
|| The metaphor seems to indicate
that as we get older, our hardware and uptime increase.
I,
of course, seem to have skipped the maturation process altogether and like
most males my age I am not young, but am still immature. I rather enjoy
it.
--Walt Weaver
Bozeman, Montana, USA
-Original Message-----From: Mohan, Ross
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:15
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Interesting stuff. (Especially about the ruminants.) When
you say mysql does not scale,
have you run into hard walls? if so, what is the data size, or is it
the transaction/activity rate
that tanksi'd be interested in hearing where, if at all, you are
"hitting the knee&q
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Ross, It's the transaction/activity rate that causes MySQL to go in the tank. Our products are web applications and some of our hosted sites see hundreds of thousands of hits a day. There are a few tables in our main application that are constantly being updated by each hit (web page request). Since MySQL has table-level locking only, performance can tank during peak periods. In addition, since MySQL has no concept of a transaction or rollback, data corruption is a constant problem. We have a cron job that runs isamchk on a regular basis for our larger customers to try and nip the corruption problems in the bud. Nevertheless, our Hosting Sysadmins spend a good portion of each day fixing MySQL corruption problems. Fortunately our product has an Oracle API, so we've moved a number of our larger customers to Oracle. Their site performance is a bit slower overall -- our products are "optimized" for MySQL -- but their performance no longer completely tanks during peak periods and there is no data corruption at all. So now we've decided to ramp up our Oracle usage (this is one of the reasons I was hired) but since we are a young and relatively cash-poor company the Mucky-mucks are hesitant about Oracle's cost. But then we show them what MySQL is doing to our hosting environment and they become stressed out about losing customers. The "between a rock and a hard place" scenario has sent them into paroxysms of fear, because they realize they might actually have to quit using free stuff and start spending money to keep up with the growing demand for the company's products. They long for the good old days of a couple of years ago when there were no customers, lots of venture capital, and the newly-created products ran great on E-machines, Linux, and MySQL. I guess you can say that we're suffering through the pain of transitioning from an internet startup to a mature, growing company with a seemingly bright future. It is not unlike going through puberty. I, of course, seem to have skipped the maturation process altogether and like most males my age I am not young, but am still immature. I rather enjoy it. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:15 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Interesting stuff. (Especially about the ruminants.) When you say mysql does not scale, have you run into hard walls? if so, what is the data size, or is it the transaction/activity rate that tanksi'd be interested in hearing where, if at all, you are "hitting the knee". I'd love to get out there someday. Absolutely beautiful country. thanks for the snapshot! -Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:01 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Well Ross, Our campus is out in the country (just about everywhere in Montana is out in the country) and we are, indeed, surrounded by docile ruminants. I'd like to say that during our off-time we go out and gaze lovingly at their udders, but there are other things we prefer to gaze at lovingly. Of course, we have no problems doing online dairy backups around here. :>) We use MySQL here and yes it's tunable. There's even word out on the street that soon MySQL may support the concept of a transaction. What a concept. MySQL has its place, but it's causing us no end of pain here. It doesn't scale well enough to support what we're doing. That's why we're painfully biting the bullet and paying the big bucks for Oracle. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:51 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a discouraging word. Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to folks is: "For your money, Oracle is the best database...if it were my money, it would be almost anything but.." MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Or
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
I heard one reason that was done is because one of those costs is tax deductable, but not the other (don't remember which). Henry -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Cool, thanks for the info Sarah, I hadn't seen that split. I'll check it when I get our next bill. I will be glad to be able to only pay for upgrades which I use, and not the support, which I have not used in over 5 years. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Walt, Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a chance to say we only need one of those pieces! Sarah Satterthwaite Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc Cambridge, MA "Weaver, Walt" wrote: > > Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone > up considerably in the past six months or so? > > We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard > Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they > were in November. > > Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an > inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? > > Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were > included in product support? > > Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for > a MySQL certification. :>) > > --Walt Weaver > Bozeman, Montana, USA > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Weaver, Walt > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sarah Satterthwaite INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this email is intended for the personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may also be privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Celltech Group immediately on: +44 (0)1753 534655, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Celltech Group plc 216 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4EN, Berkshire, UK Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2159282 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Maser, Donna (SEA) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Interesting stuff. (Especially about the ruminants.) When you say mysql does not scale, have you run into hard walls? if so, what is the data size, or is it the transaction/activity rate that tanksi'd be interested in hearing where, if at all, you are "hitting the knee". I'd love to get out there someday. Absolutely beautiful country. thanks for the snapshot! -Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:01 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Well Ross, Our campus is out in the country (just about everywhere in Montana is out in the country) and we are, indeed, surrounded by docile ruminants. I'd like to say that during our off-time we go out and gaze lovingly at their udders, but there are other things we prefer to gaze at lovingly. Of course, we have no problems doing online dairy backups around here. :>) We use MySQL here and yes it's tunable. There's even word out on the street that soon MySQL may support the concept of a transaction. What a concept. MySQL has its place, but it's causing us no end of pain here. It doesn't scale well enough to support what we're doing. That's why we're painfully biting the bullet and paying the big bucks for Oracle. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:51 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a discouraging word. Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to folks is: "For your money, Oracle is the best database...if it were my money, it would be almost anything but.." MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :>) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
NO! RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:45 PM > Does anyone know - will I still have access to Metalink if I will not pay for the support? > > TIA, > Michael Netrusov, > www.atelo.com > (202) 262 8469 > (877) 528 0090 > > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 20:20 > > > > Cool, thanks for the info Sarah, I hadn't seen that split. I'll check it > > when I get our next bill. I will be glad to be able to only pay for > > upgrades which I use, and not the support, which I have not used in over 5 > > years. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:00 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Walt, > > > > Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for > > support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that > > it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a > > chance to say we only need one of those pieces! > > > > Sarah Satterthwaite > > Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc > > Cambridge, MA > > > > "Weaver, Walt" wrote: > > > > > > Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service > > gone > > > up considerably in the past six months or so? > > > > > > We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard > > > Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they > > > were in November. > > > > > > Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an > > > inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? > > > > > > Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were > > > included in product support? > > > > > > Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track > > for > > > a MySQL certification. :>) > > > > > > --Walt Weaver > > > Bozeman, Montana, USA > > > -- > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > -- > > > Author: Weaver, Walt > > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Sarah Satterthwaite > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > > > The information contained in this email is intended for the > > personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may > > also be privileged information. If you are not the intended > > recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received > > this document in error and that any review, distribution or > > copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have > > received this communication in error, please notify Celltech > > Group immediately on: > > > > +44 (0)1753 534655, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > Celltech Group plc > > 216 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4EN, Berkshire, UK > > > > Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2159282 > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Maser, Donna (SEA) > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Michael Netrusov >
Re: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Does anyone know - will I still have access to Metalink if I will not pay for the support? TIA, Michael Netrusov, www.atelo.com (202) 262 8469 (877) 528 0090 - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 20:20 > Cool, thanks for the info Sarah, I hadn't seen that split. I'll check it > when I get our next bill. I will be glad to be able to only pay for > upgrades which I use, and not the support, which I have not used in over 5 > years. > > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:00 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Walt, > > Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for > support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that > it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a > chance to say we only need one of those pieces! > > Sarah Satterthwaite > Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc > Cambridge, MA > > "Weaver, Walt" wrote: > > > > Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service > gone > > up considerably in the past six months or so? > > > > We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard > > Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they > > were in November. > > > > Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an > > inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? > > > > Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were > > included in product support? > > > > Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track > for > > a MySQL certification. :>) > > > > --Walt Weaver > > Bozeman, Montana, USA > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Weaver, Walt > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Sarah Satterthwaite > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > The information contained in this email is intended for the > personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may > also be privileged information. If you are not the intended > recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received > this document in error and that any review, distribution or > copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify Celltech > Group immediately on: > > +44 (0)1753 534655, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > Celltech Group plc > 216 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4EN, Berkshire, UK > > Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2159282 > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Maser, Donna (SEA) > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Netrusov INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'List
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Cool, thanks for the info Sarah, I hadn't seen that split. I'll check it when I get our next bill. I will be glad to be able to only pay for upgrades which I use, and not the support, which I have not used in over 5 years. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Walt, Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a chance to say we only need one of those pieces! Sarah Satterthwaite Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc Cambridge, MA "Weaver, Walt" wrote: > > Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone > up considerably in the past six months or so? > > We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard > Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they > were in November. > > Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an > inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? > > Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were > included in product support? > > Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for > a MySQL certification. :>) > > --Walt Weaver > Bozeman, Montana, USA > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Weaver, Walt > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sarah Satterthwaite INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this email is intended for the personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may also be privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Celltech Group immediately on: +44 (0)1753 534655, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Celltech Group plc 216 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4EN, Berkshire, UK Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2159282 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Maser, Donna (SEA) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Walt, Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a chance to say we only need one of those pieces! Sarah Satterthwaite Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc Cambridge, MA "Weaver, Walt" wrote: > > Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone > up considerably in the past six months or so? > > We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard > Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they > were in November. > > Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an > inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? > > Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were > included in product support? > > Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for > a MySQL certification. :>) > > --Walt Weaver > Bozeman, Montana, USA > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Weaver, Walt > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sarah Satterthwaite INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Man I
would love to live in Montana. All that beautiful land and
such...land.
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Weaver, WaltSent:
Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:01 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription
Service
Well
Ross, Our campus is out in the country (just about everywhere in Montana is
out in the country) and we are, indeed, surrounded by docile ruminants. I'd
like to say that during our off-time we go out and gaze lovingly at their
udders, but there are other things we prefer to gaze at
lovingly.
Of
course, we have no problems doing online dairy backups around here.
:>)
We
use MySQL here and yes it's tunable. There's even word out on the street that
soon MySQL may support the concept of a transaction. What a
concept.
MySQL has its place, but it's causing us no end of
pain here. It doesn't scale well enough to support what we're doing. That's
why we're painfully biting the bullet and paying the big bucks for
Oracle.
--Walt Weaver
Bozeman, Montana, USA
-Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001
8:51 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription
Service
Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle
man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a
discouraging word.
Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to
folks is: "For your money, Oracle is the best
database...if it were my money, it would be almost
anything but.."
MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun
-Original Message- From:
Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates
Subscription Service gone up considerably in the
past six months or so?
We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase
8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting
are a heck of a lot higher than they were in
November.
Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy
now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen
Greenspan when you need him?
Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when
upgrades were included in product support?
Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering
getting on track for a MySQL
certification. :>)
--Walt Weaver Bozeman,
Montana, USA -- Please see
the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services -- (858)
538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego,
California -- Public Internet
access / Mailing Lists
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT
spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY,
include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the
name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like
subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Well Ross, Our campus is out in the country (just about everywhere in Montana is out in the country) and we are, indeed, surrounded by docile ruminants. I'd like to say that during our off-time we go out and gaze lovingly at their udders, but there are other things we prefer to gaze at lovingly. Of course, we have no problems doing online dairy backups around here. :>) We use MySQL here and yes it's tunable. There's even word out on the street that soon MySQL may support the concept of a transaction. What a concept. MySQL has its place, but it's causing us no end of pain here. It doesn't scale well enough to support what we're doing. That's why we're painfully biting the bullet and paying the big bucks for Oracle. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:51 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a discouraging word. Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to folks is: "For your money, Oracle is the best database...if it were my money, it would be almost anything but.." MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :>) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a discouraging word. Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to folks is: "For your money, Oracle is the best database...if it were my money, it would be almost anything but.." MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :>) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :>) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
