RE: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Wow, this is scary thinking. Look only at expenses, not at the need that needs to be filled. Here's another example of that: http://www.vnunet.com/News/1130760 Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re:RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Hey, just wait around till the Oracle support bill shows up. No, better yet, leave before then. If he/she is making decisions based strickly on expense you might as well be one of the early rats, namely leave the ship before it sinks! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/11/2002 11:13 AM I would ask myself the question, Do I want to be working for someone this technically clueless? I foresee a long education process via-a-vis this guy (I'm assuming that it's a guy) or a never-ending struggle just to get the basic tools that you need to do your job. Mercadante, Thomas FTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L NDATFM [EMAIL PROTECTED] @labor.state.cc: ny.us Subject: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Sent by: root 04/11/2002 10:18 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Jay, I would provide a list of functions you perform daily and what would happen if they are not completed in a timely manner. I would also update my resume. Sounds like a pretty naive director of IT. Either he/she is making a play to move you out and get a prior buddy in place, or is a complete idiot, thinking of short-term money savings but is completely unaware of long-term result. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Jay, I would provide a list of functions you perform daily and what would happen if they are not completed in a timely manner. I would also update my resume. Sounds like a pretty naive director of IT. Either he/she is making a play to move you out and get a prior buddy in place, or is a complete idiot, thinking of short-term money savings but is completely unaware of long-term result. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
From discussions that I have had here, DB2 on the AS-400 IS implemented as
indexed flat files against which you write sql. It IS a database (says
rdbms right on the box).
Insight... I'm not sure why he is tied to the AS-400...
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate
positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director
of IT:
Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA.
Me: Then you probably were just using files.
Director: No, it was a database.
Me: Could you issue SQL commands?
Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those
mysteries of life.
My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of
the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary
database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle.
For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would
demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA.
Thanks,
Jay
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Author: Jay Hostetter
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Author: April Wells
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RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
On the AS400 IBM created DB2/400 that allowed DB2 to be ported to that platform. If they are not running DB2 on that platform, then they are using CICS-400 with VSAM files. Now. If you are performing queries from Oracle to DB2 (SQL Queries), that is being performed through Oracle's gateway product. If not, then they have installed DB2. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Product Architect Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 10:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Does it have DB2 as the database? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
I believe they have a form of DB2 called DB/400 (or something like that). I don't think Oracle runs on this platform. The Progress RDMS ran on it at one time, but it was a mess, so not anymore. My $0.02 worth, Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:08 AM Does it have DB2 as the database? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
It's been a while since I actually worked on a AS400 but from my understanding, DB2 is integrated into OS400, the operating system for the AS400. In the System/36 and System/38 worlds, you used RPG and a bunch of other utilities to create your programs and files. The files were flat files and I think when AS400 came out, this concept was still in place except now the files were stored in a database - DB2. I have seen one application on an AS400. There was no RI, no procs or triggers. The application had its roots in a System/36 system and had been re-written for the AS400. All the logic was in the app and DB2 just stored the data. Yes, you can run a utility (strsql I think) that brings up a screen and you can query the tables stored in the database using plain SQL. You can also bypass the app and directly insert/update/delete data aswell. hth mkb --- Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
So you can cover his ass when a problem happens. On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Jay Hostetter wrote: We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alex INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Jay - I can see the manager's confusion. After all, one expects computers to become easier and require less effort to maintain as time goes by. I forwarded your question to another list that has some AS/400 programmers. -- On the AS400 you can run queries and use SQL even though the machine is configured to use files. Under the covers it is still AS400/DB2. -- The AS/400 has a full-featured database built into the operating system. Originally it didn't even have a name but IBM started calling it DB2/400 when they found out that some people didn't know it was there. And you don't need a DBA. Virtually all the functions that are performed by a DBA on an Oracle database, for example, are handled automatically by the AS/400 under the covers. -- Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Just tell him that with AS400 one doesn't need a CIO either and that will be the end of that. AS400 is a closed system, perfect for running canned apps, maintained by somebody and is, in essence, equivalent of outsourcing. For that, you don't need to have an IT, just a person to manage the contract. If the business need to adjust the applications frequently and to create it's own solution, AS400 would be just a little bit awkward, not to mention the fact that programmers knowing AS400 are very hard to come across and usually demand a premium salary. -Original Message- From: Jay Hostetter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: No DBAs needed on AS400 We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Jay, The AS400 machines are the heirs to the System 38 machines which were themselves derived from a 'Future System' which was so revolutionary that it was killed off by the IBM marketing on the eve of announcement for fear that it would frighten their System 360/370 customers (the cost of migrating to competition wouldn't have been higher than migrating to the 'future system' and they didn't take the risk). The operating system indeed has a built-in RDBMS, which may not have all the features of Oracle or UDB, but don't expect to make a bean-counter understand technical subtleties. After all, many people don't make the difference between Access and Oracle. Anyway, you have several ways to defend your position: a) Migration. Assuming they want to switch to something else, they will need somebody who knows the current system well. This in turn will help you learn the new system and find arguments to help preserve your job. b) Oracle doesn't need any DBA either. If you have no new application, no developer, if you don't upgrade anything, if volumes stay the same who needs a DBA? However, as soon as one of the premises is false ... - Original Message - From: Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:54:07 We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate posit= ions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT= :=0D =0D Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA.=0D Me: Then you probably were just using files.=0D Director: No, it was a database.=0D Me: Could you issue SQL commands?=0D Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of thos= e mysteries of life.=0D =0D =0D My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense o= f the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary= database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle.=0D =0D For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that woul= d demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA.=0D =0D Thanks,=0D Jay=0D =0D =0D --=0D Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com=0D --=0D Author: Jay Hostetter=0D INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=0D =0D Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051=0D San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists=0D To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message=0D to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in=0D the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L=0D (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may=0D also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).=0D --- -=0D Stephane Faroult Oriole Corporation Performance Tools Free Scripts -- http://www.oriole.com, designed by Oracle DBAs for Oracle DBAs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroul INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
I never worked on AS400, but this aligns with what I recall. I believe that the System/38 was the first IBM system that had an embedded database. (System 36 did not -- it used older technology.) And that was used as the basis for the AS400. If I recall correctly, the OS used the database to store pretty much everything including all the system parameters and data. I believe this pre-dates DB2 and was very likely not a true relational database -- though I could be wrong on that. I suspect that SQL query capabilities were added on afterwards, similar to what was done with Ingres and Informix. (Informix was just indexed files and you could bypass SQL and do indexed file reads for performance reasons. Ingres had its own query language before SQL (QUEL?).) You didn't need a DBA, because the OS controlled everything and I don't think there was any ability to tune the system. The AS400 was designed to be pretty much a hands-off system. Just plug it in and let it run. Marc Perkowitz Senior Consultant TWJ Consulting, LLP - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:33 AM It's been a while since I actually worked on a AS400 but from my understanding, DB2 is integrated into OS400, the operating system for the AS400. In the System/36 and System/38 worlds, you used RPG and a bunch of other utilities to create your programs and files. The files were flat files and I think when AS400 came out, this concept was still in place except now the files were stored in a database - DB2. I have seen one application on an AS400. There was no RI, no procs or triggers. The application had its roots in a System/36 system and had been re-written for the AS400. All the logic was in the app and DB2 just stored the data. Yes, you can run a utility (strsql I think) that brings up a screen and you can query the tables stored in the database using plain SQL. You can also bypass the app and directly insert/update/delete data aswell. hth mkb --- Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Marc Perkowitz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
Can't help you there. The AS/400 evolved from the S/34, S/36, and S/38 line of IBM machines. My 77-yr-old stepfather (at the time, 62-yrs-old) bought a S/38 for his trucking company in NJ, complete with payroll, GL, AR, AP, etc software. He didn't have an IT department, needless to say. They just wheeled the machine in, the IBM guy set it up, then he (my stepfather) watched the IBM guy run everything for 2-3 days, then he picked up the manual (he wasn't even a mechanic, just a driver who built a company) and ran the system for years until he sold the company and retired. Did backups and everything. Had his drivers deliver the tapes in a firebox to his two other truck terminals. He is always a little amused that I can make a full-time living on computers... It's not hyperbole -- it's fact. IBM built some sweet machines for years, and the AS/400 is not only easy to operate but also the fastest commercial machine on the planet to this day. I've always suspected that was one reason why Oracle never bothered to port to AS/400, because DB2/400 was waiting there to slap them silly... Fatal flaw: they don't talk to non-AS/400s or non-mainframes easily. Hence open systems. It's an old story. Remeber: technical merit doesn't always win the day. After all, just compare the relative fortunes of DEC (or IBM) against Microsoft. If your new director is determined to go the AS/400 route (which includes isolating your company from just about everything except what runs on AS/400 and IBM mainframes), then you'd better brush up on your resume... Sorry... - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:54 AM We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
We have DB2 running on an AS400 and have a DB2 DBA. She does those unimportant things like backup/restore, source control, duhveloper control, database reorgs and all sorts of other junk. She is busy all the time. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 10:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never worked on AS400, but this aligns with what I recall. I believe that the System/38 was the first IBM system that had an embedded database. (System 36 did not -- it used older technology.) And that was used as the basis for the AS400. If I recall correctly, the OS used the database to store pretty much everything including all the system parameters and data. I believe this pre-dates DB2 and was very likely not a true relational database -- though I could be wrong on that. I suspect that SQL query capabilities were added on afterwards, similar to what was done with Ingres and Informix. (Informix was just indexed files and you could bypass SQL and do indexed file reads for performance reasons. Ingres had its own query language before SQL (QUEL?).) You didn't need a DBA, because the OS controlled everything and I don't think there was any ability to tune the system. The AS400 was designed to be pretty much a hands-off system. Just plug it in and let it run. Marc Perkowitz Senior Consultant TWJ Consulting, LLP - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:33 AM It's been a while since I actually worked on a AS400 but from my understanding, DB2 is integrated into OS400, the operating system for the AS400. In the System/36 and System/38 worlds, you used RPG and a bunch of other utilities to create your programs and files. The files were flat files and I think when AS400 came out, this concept was still in place except now the files were stored in a database - DB2. I have seen one application on an AS400. There was no RI, no procs or triggers. The application had its roots in a System/36 system and had been re-written for the AS400. All the logic was in the app and DB2 just stored the data. Yes, you can run a utility (strsql I think) that brings up a screen and you can query the tables stored in the database using plain SQL. You can also bypass the app and directly insert/update/delete data aswell. hth mkb --- Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Marc Perkowitz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
In the late 80's and early 90's I worked on an AS/400. We also had NO DBA, and the box looked and ran like we had NO DBA. Back then IBM pushed AS/400's as a put it in and forget it/don't worry about it box. And as a result our database looked and ran like a POS. I remember submitting jobs, and after 1 hour of elapsed run time the job had 1 second of cpu. That's when I made my decision to switch to Oracle and Unix. I'm sure AS/400's are fine quality machines, and I'm not trying to bash them here (everything has it's place in the market). If your looking for justification, find out if IBM offers training for AS/400 DBA's. Use the course description as ammunition as to why he should have had a DBA or ask him who carried out the tasks the class described. Also check out books on Amazon for same. Then describe the tasks that a Oracle DBA performs and ask him who he expects to perform them. He's just rattling your cage, time to rattle his. (This email is dedicated to Earl Fisher at Famous Footwear and all the irreparable damage he caused me) Brian P. MacLean Oracle DBA, OCP8i Jay Hostetter jhostetter@decommunica To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] tions.comcc: Sent by: Subject: No DBAs needed on AS400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/11/02 06:54 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Thank you for all the replies that I have received. It sounds like a version of DB2 comes along with the OS, or a full fledged version of DB2 can be installed. From what I have heard about their AS400 system, they can access their files directly - without going through a database. This reminds me of my COBOL days on VMS. It sounds like DB2 can be configured to use files, which would mean that you could either update the file directly or go through DB2 - is this correct? I can also make another VMS relation here - we had a tool called DataTrieve which you could configure to use regular files. You could then issue SQL like statements through DataTrieve against your files. Is DB2 like this? Somebody needed to configure DataTrieve before it could reference a file - what about DB2? Unless they never changed/added files on the AS400. Comments were made that DB2 and AS400s are not open. Does this mean that you couldn't write a client/server program to access data on DB2 (say using C++ from Windows 2000)? I'm off to find on-line docs... Answers to some questions: Does it have DB2 as the database? He didn't say that it was running DB2. If you are performing queries from Oracle to DB2 (SQL Queries), that is being performed through Oracle's gateway product. We are not doing this. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/11/02 10:44AM Jay - I can see the manager's confusion. After all, one expects computers to become easier and require less effort to maintain as time goes by. I forwarded your question to another list that has some AS/400 programmers. -- On the AS400 you can run queries and use SQL even though the machine is configured to use files. Under the covers it is still AS400/DB2. -- The AS/400 has a full-featured database built into the operating system. Originally it didn't even have a name but IBM started calling it DB2/400 when they found out that some people didn't know it was there. And you don't need a DBA. Virtually all the functions that are performed by a DBA on an Oracle database, for example, are handled automatically by the AS/400 under the covers. -- Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Title: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Comments were made that DB2 and AS400s are not open. Does this mean that you couldn't write a client/server program to access data on DB2 (say using C++ from Windows 2000)? RUMBA/400 formerly pc support connects to the AS400 from a windows pc. Last I knew, the AS400 data need to be converted from EBCDIC into the wrkdoc area for ASCII in order for Rumba/400 to work with it correctly. -Original Message- From: Jay Hostetter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Thank you for all the replies that I have received. It sounds like a version of DB2 comes along with the OS, or a full fledged version of DB2 can be installed. From what I have heard about their AS400 system, they can access their files directly - without going through a database. This reminds me of my COBOL days on VMS. It sounds like DB2 can be configured to use files, which would mean that you could either update the file directly or go through DB2 - is this correct? I can also make another VMS relation here - we had a tool called DataTrieve which you could configure to use regular files. You could then issue SQL like statements through DataTrieve against your files. Is DB2 like this? Somebody needed to configure DataTrieve before it could reference a file - what about DB2? Unless they never changed/added files on the AS400. Comments were made that DB2 and AS400s are not open. Does this mean that you couldn't write a client/server program to access data on DB2 (say using C++ from Windows 2000)? I'm off to find on-line docs... Answers to some questions: Does it have DB2 as the database? He didn't say that it was running DB2. If you are performing queries from Oracle to DB2 (SQL Queries), that is being performed through Oracle's gateway product. We are not doing this. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/11/02 10:44AM Jay - I can see the manager's confusion. After all, one expects computers to become easier and require less effort to maintain as time goes by. I forwarded your question to another list that has some AS/400 programmers. -- On the AS400 you can run queries and use SQL even though the machine is configured to use files. Under the covers it is still AS400/DB2. -- The AS/400 has a full-featured database built into the operating system. Originally it didn't even have a name but IBM started calling it DB2/400 when they found out that some people didn't know it was there. And you don't need a DBA. Virtually all the functions that are performed by a DBA on an Oracle database, for example, are handled automatically by the AS/400 under the covers. -- Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
This is interesting, even though it is 2 years old: http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/db2/todba.htm It seems to be saying (if I may summarize): As we catch up to the features and functionality of Oracle, you will need a DBA. Jay -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: No DBAs needed on AS400
Title: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 I believe that there are ODBC and JDBC drives for OS/400... - Original Message - From: Godlewski, Melissa To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Comments were made that DB2 and AS400s are not "open". Does this mean that you couldn't write a client/server program to access data on DB2 (say using C++ from Windows 2000)? RUMBA/400 formerly pc support connects to the AS400 from a windows pc. Last I knew, the AS400 data need to be converted from EBCDIC into the wrkdoc area for ASCII in order for Rumba/400 to work with it correctly. -Original Message- From: Jay Hostetter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: No DBAs needed on AS400 Thank you for all the replies that I have received. It sounds like a version of DB2 comes along with the OS, or a full fledged version of DB2 can be installed. From what I have heard about their AS400 system, they can access their files directly - without going through a database. This reminds me of my COBOL days on VMS. It sounds like DB2 can be configured to use files, which would mean that you could either update the file directly or go through DB2 - is this correct? I can also make another VMS relation here - we had a tool called DataTrieve which you could configure to use regular files. You could then issue SQL like statements through DataTrieve against your files. Is DB2 like this? Somebody needed to configure DataTrieve before it could reference a file - what about DB2? Unless "they" never changed/added files on the AS400. Comments were made that DB2 and AS400s are not "open". Does this mean that you couldn't write a client/server program to access data on DB2 (say using C++ from Windows 2000)? I'm off to find on-line docs... Answers to some questions: Does it have DB2 as the database? He didn't say that it was running DB2. If you are performing queries from Oracle to DB2 (SQL Queries), that is being performed through Oracle's gateway product. We are not doing this. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/11/02 10:44AM Jay - I can see the manager's confusion. After all, one expects computers to become easier and require less effort to maintain as time goes by. I forwarded your question to another list that has some AS/400 programmers. -- On the AS400 you can run queries and use SQL even though the machine is configured to use files. Under the covers it is still AS400/DB2. -- The AS/400 has a full-featured database built into the operating system. Originally it didn't even have a name but IBM started calling it DB2/400 when they found out that some people didn't know it was there. And you don't need a DBA. Virtually all the functions that are performed by a DBA on an Oracle database, for example, are handled automatically by the AS/400 under the covers. -- Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: No DBAs needed on AS400
Going to show my age here ... Actually IMAGE is a network database and not a hierarchical one. It is patterned after a database called TOTAL that back in the days preceding Oracle, Sybase,etc. was installed almost everywhere. While you didnt need a DBA it was good to have people that were knowledgable in normalization and many of the same principles in use today to create your databases. I cut my 'DBA' teeth on TOTAL and did some work with IMAGE many moons ago. A great tool in its time but would be seen as a dinosaur today. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jay, We still have one of those dinosaurs running here called HP's TurboImage database. It also does not need a DBA, actually it does not understand what a DBA is. The database is hierachtical with the constraints set during creation. I constantly have fun with the older ManMan developers as we move them into PeopleSoft. They have no idea of what's going on under the covers. SQL is a foreign language to them, their all use to TurboImage intrinsics and a SQL*Plus look alike tool called Quiz. It's kind of fun, you have to use a dataset (they call them databases), report out columns, and then set conditions. Kind of like writing SQL with the from clause first. This type of structure has to be carried into the application programs as well, namely you've got to call the dbopen intrinsic before you can use a dataset. BTW, that's in C syntax 'dbopen(MANDB.MDATABAS.MMV090)' (the HP3000 MPEi/x directory structure is kind of strange). There is no such thing as rollback or read consistent view and recovery consists of going back to the last backup, all of which are cold, and having everyone re-enter their transactions. OH, yes, there is no such thing as a user. If you have the ability to loggon to the HP3000, you can use the database and everything is wide open. No ideas of security. Problem with TurboImage is that to modify a database you have to rebuild it using an HP utility and then you have to rebuild all of your application programs, or else they crash. Developers do that task as needed and when they mess up, well all hell can and does break loose. Also you need to run these third party utilities each night so that there is room for the dataset to grow and you have to fix broken chains all the time. There is no concept of an instance either. Your application program directly accesses the data files/datasets, so 'impeded' sessions are a common occurance and if an application messes up it can require a system reboot to clear the problems. Sure you don't need a DBA, but you sure as heck need an operator. Problem is that most operators don't get paid as well as a DBA. If your new CIO is in that mindset I'd recommend polishing your resume, cause your gonna need it. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/11/2002 5:54 AM We are going through a merger, and management is looking to eliminate positions. Here is a brief summary of my discussion with the new director of IT: Director: Back when I we were using an AS400, we didn't need a DBA. Me: Then you probably were just using files. Director: No, it was a database. Me: Could you issue SQL commands? Director: Yes. But we didn't need a DBA. I guess it was just one of those mysteries of life. My thoughts are that he is using the term database in the generic sense of the word (our files are our database), or he was using some proprietary database that doesn't even begin to compare to Oracle. For those of you who know AS400s, I would appreciate some insight that would demonstrate why he needs to keep me as a DBA. Thanks, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
