Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
- Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:25 AM They attack when they sense weakness. Lagging economy, dumb guy in charge. They never hit hard enough though. If its not a knockout punch then they're going down. Remember what happened after Pearl Harbor? I don't think these statements are very well-reasoned. I do not, in any way, condone this act, but it might be best to back off the natural emotional rage and be a bit more analytical. An effective and coherent response demands it. I really doubt that weakness or lagging economy, dumb guy in charge have anything to do with it. We have been suffering terrorist attacks for a decade, although this is, without a doubt, the most diabolical and devastating. The comparison of this atrocity and Pearl Harbor are quite understandable, but also quite wrong. Both events will have had the result of uniting us in our resolve, but the differences are much greater than the similarities. Pearl Harbor occurred during a declared war between well-defined sides consisting of states that were major world powers. The surprise attack was against a military installation with the express intent of crippling our military response capabilities (e.g. being a knockout punch). We knew immediately who did it. We had a well-defined opponent and the ensuing war was total and waged by all traditional means - including crippling the economy of the aggressor nation. While it can be reasonably argued that we have been in a declared war on terrorism for some time, it is a different kind of war entirely. Sneak attack is the norm rather than the exception. It is a prerequisite for terrorism - a declared terrorist attack simply would not work. (This is simply stating the rather obvious facts, not condoning the actions.) In that context, it could be argued that this was only the most recent event in a long running war. Another major distinction is in the motivation of the perpetrators. This I'll leave to those better qualified, but I doubt that anyone, even the terrorists and their supporters, actually believe that this action will deter a response or diminish its force, let alone deliver a knockout punch. A comparison to the mutually assured destruction (MAD) policy of the cold war is a better analogy. Most likely, this was done by terrorists who perceive that we have wronged them and want us to share their pain - MAD in a new form. Unfortunately, MAD doesn't work very well from our side this time since there are so many disperse terrorist groups in so many regions. Nuking half of the third world isn't an option. If the perpetrator is (as only an example!) Iraq, the determination of a response becomes much easier - we have a well-defined state as an enemy and all the avenues of warfare are open to us. However, what it the guilty party is, for example, a radical splinter faction of the Palestinian movement? Should we carpet bomb Jerusalem? Beirut? Place all Palestinians in concentration camps? As a society of law, we have always been in a knotty dilemma in this respect. A radical over-reaction, especially against the wrong target or with immense collateral damage, would be a much greater victory for the terrorists than even all the massive human and economic damage in New York. While maintaining the moral high ground may not provide immediate satisfaction, it is essential. We must make a strong military response, but let's make it an effective one this time. So far, we haven't been winning this war. The events of the day prove it. What may easily and quickly appease public opinion inside the US may perhaps be (have been? - I hope) the preferred course for US politicians, but it won't likely be best in the context of a rational and effective plan to eliminate or minimize terrorism. We in the US, have a history in this war, of knee-jerk emotional reactions and jumping to conclusions. I won't go into the details here, since it is only likely to generate heated discussion. Consider only the immediate reactions in the press to the Oklahoma City bombing. I have been watching both the US press and BBC today. The differences are stark. The BBC is quite sympathetic, but much more objective, analytical and responsible in their reporting. For example, they discussed past research by the US government that exposed severe weaknesses in our domestic airline security and outlined potential solutions - then talked about how the airlines and our politicians so strongly opposed them. We want security, but we don't want the inconvenience that goes with it. They also discussed some of our past responses to terrorist attacks and how a few of them were contrived to appease the public rather than punish the perpetrators. This isn't likely ever to be heard in the US press. We, as a nation, aren't good at confession. The US press is doing a great job on the factual reporting, but, in my
Re: Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Hi.. This may sound like a 'sick' question. But are we all 'safe' .. I mean are all our listers 'back' in safe health? Regards -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Cyril Thankappan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
aag! Pearl Harbor did not occur during a declared war. Sheesh I didn't go to the Disney flick. I hope that's not where that came from. Your analogy to mutually assured destruction doesn't fit. You may be thinking more along the lines of massive retaliation a policy pushed by John Foster Dulles, Eisehhower's Secretary of State. Part of the Pearl harbor scenario fits quite well. America has been violated, and not just an American Territory as was Hawaii in 1941, but America herself. It would be outrageous to suggest anger is not an appropriate emotion at this time. However anger which lashes out at innocents is completely wrong as is anger which assumes facts not in evidence. The axiom that revenge is best served cold holds true. It didn't take an expose by the BBC to expose weaknesses in our airport security. I did see a visibly shaken Yassir Arafat expressing his shock on the BBC broadcast. I don't recall seeing that on American news, but then I could have easily missed it. I am no fan of Arafat and believe he is encouraging the terrorist attacks on Israel. I don't know what are response will be. It may be that some of Shrek's friends will be paying visits. I doubt these incidents are domestic such as Oklahoma City. I never thought Oklahoma City bombing was the work of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists. I kept asking, Why would they target Oklahoma City? If it domestic, it's one for the courts. I don't know how exactly to punish countries which harbor terrorists. Usually the regimes are unaffected and the people suffer. Violations of embargoes grow rampant over time. Military attacks often unite People under the most despicable of leaderships. History is rife with everyday people fighting valliantly under such circumstances. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:25 AM They attack when they sense weakness. Lagging economy, dumb guy in charge. They never hit hard enough though. If its not a knockout punch then they're going down. Remember what happened after Pearl Harbor? I don't think these statements are very well-reasoned. I do not, in any way, condone this act, but it might be best to back off the natural emotional rage and be a bit more analytical. An effective and coherent response demands it. I really doubt that weakness or lagging economy, dumb guy in charge have anything to do with it. We have been suffering terrorist attacks for a decade, although this is, without a doubt, the most diabolical and devastating. The comparison of this atrocity and Pearl Harbor are quite understandable, but also quite wrong. Both events will have had the result of uniting us in our resolve, but the differences are much greater than the similarities. Pearl Harbor occurred during a declared war between well-defined sides consisting of states that were major world powers. The surprise attack was against a military installation with the express intent of crippling our military response capabilities (e.g. being a knockout punch). We knew immediately who did it. We had a well-defined opponent and the ensuing war was total and waged by all traditional means - including crippling the economy of the aggressor nation. While it can be reasonably argued that we have been in a declared war on terrorism for some time, it is a different kind of war entirely. Sneak attack is the norm rather than the exception. It is a prerequisite for terrorism - a declared terrorist attack simply would not work. (This is simply stating the rather obvious facts, not condoning the actions.) In that context, it could be argued that this was only the most recent event in a long running war. Another major distinction is in the motivation of the perpetrators. This I'll leave to those better qualified, but I doubt that anyone, even the terrorists and their supporters, actually believe that this action will deter a response or diminish its force, let alone deliver a knockout punch. A comparison to the mutually assured destruction (MAD) policy of the cold war is a better analogy. Most likely, this was done by terrorists who perceive that we have wronged them and want us to share their pain - MAD in a new form. Unfortunately, MAD doesn't work very well from our side this time since there are so many disperse terrorist groups in so many regions. Nuking half of the third world isn't an option. If the perpetrator is (as only an example!) Iraq, the determination of a response becomes much easier - we have a well-defined state as an enemy and all the avenues of warfare are open to us. However, what it the guilty party is, for example, a radical splinter faction of the Palestinian movement?
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Ian, Just so you know you must have missed it, they did have the Arafat interview on. Good point by the way that it wasn't a war for us yet:) Kev -Original Message- Ian A. Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:40 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L aag! Pearl Harbor did not occur during a declared war. Sheesh I didn't go to the Disney flick. I hope that's not where that came from. Your analogy to mutually assured destruction doesn't fit. You may be thinking more along the lines of massive retaliation a policy pushed by John Foster Dulles, Eisehhower's Secretary of State. Part of the Pearl harbor scenario fits quite well. America has been violated, and not just an American Territory as was Hawaii in 1941, but America herself. It would be outrageous to suggest anger is not an appropriate emotion at this time. However anger which lashes out at innocents is completely wrong as is anger which assumes facts not in evidence. The axiom that revenge is best served cold holds true. It didn't take an expose by the BBC to expose weaknesses in our airport security. I did see a visibly shaken Yassir Arafat expressing his shock on the BBC broadcast. I don't recall seeing that on American news, but then I could have easily missed it. I am no fan of Arafat and believe he is encouraging the terrorist attacks on Israel. I don't know what are response will be. It may be that some of Shrek's friends will be paying visits. I doubt these incidents are domestic such as Oklahoma City. I never thought Oklahoma City bombing was the work of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists. I kept asking, Why would they target Oklahoma City? If it domestic, it's one for the courts. I don't know how exactly to punish countries which harbor terrorists. Usually the regimes are unaffected and the people suffer. Violations of embargoes grow rampant over time. Military attacks often unite People under the most despicable of leaderships. History is rife with everyday people fighting valliantly under such circumstances. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:25 AM They attack when they sense weakness. Lagging economy, dumb guy in charge. They never hit hard enough though. If its not a knockout punch then they're going down. Remember what happened after Pearl Harbor? I don't think these statements are very well-reasoned. I do not, in any way, condone this act, but it might be best to back off the natural emotional rage and be a bit more analytical. An effective and coherent response demands it. I really doubt that weakness or lagging economy, dumb guy in charge have anything to do with it. We have been suffering terrorist attacks for a decade, although this is, without a doubt, the most diabolical and devastating. The comparison of this atrocity and Pearl Harbor are quite understandable, but also quite wrong. Both events will have had the result of uniting us in our resolve, but the differences are much greater than the similarities. Pearl Harbor occurred during a declared war between well-defined sides consisting of states that were major world powers. The surprise attack was against a military installation with the express intent of crippling our military response capabilities (e.g. being a knockout punch). We knew immediately who did it. We had a well-defined opponent and the ensuing war was total and waged by all traditional means - including crippling the economy of the aggressor nation. While it can be reasonably argued that we have been in a declared war on terrorism for some time, it is a different kind of war entirely. Sneak attack is the norm rather than the exception. It is a prerequisite for terrorism - a declared terrorist attack simply would not work. (This is simply stating the rather obvious facts, not condoning the actions.) In that context, it could be argued that this was only the most recent event in a long running war. Another major distinction is in the motivation of the perpetrators. This I'll leave to those better qualified, but I doubt that anyone, even the terrorists and their supporters, actually believe that this action will deter a response or diminish its force, let alone deliver a knockout punch. A comparison to the mutually assured destruction (MAD) policy of the cold war is a better analogy. Most likely, this was done by terrorists who perceive that we have wronged them and want us to share their pain - MAD in a new form. Unfortunately, MAD doesn't work very well from our side this time since there are so many disperse terrorist groups in so many regions. Nuking half of the third world isn't an option. If the perpetrator is (as only an example!)
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
I was going to write a huge message detailing my excellent knowledege of Wordl war II history, but I cannot argue against someone who accepts that war was not declared, but insists there was a declared war. We speak a different language. I respectfully suggest you check on the history of World War II in the Pacific. There wasn't much fighting going on. Lots of capitulation to Japanese demands, some local resistance, but certainly no war. I do agree we were preparing for war with Japan long before Pearl Harbor. You have redefined MAD. Abraham Lincoln, Once asked, If you call the tail of a dog a leg, how many legs does it have? Five, someone answered. No, said Lincoln, Four. Calling a leg a tail doesn't make it so. I didn't mean to convey that either you or I suppported massive retaliation. I did mean to convey that Nuking Half the Third World is more inline with that policy as opposed to MAD as the rest of the world understands it. I will not answer any other OT posts for a week. I too am done with this topic as far as the group is concerned. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MacGregor, Ian A. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:40 AM aag! Pearl Harbor did not occur during a declared war. Sheesh I didn't go to the Disney flick. I hope that's not where that came from. Will all due respect, you are dead wrong. This isn't based on some movie, it is based on historical fact. WWII started in 1939, not December 1941. A formal declaration of war between Japan and the US was inevitable long before Pearl Harbor. Japan was allied with the other Axis powers and we were already firmly committed to the Allied side. Our formal declaration of war on Japan was the day after - Dec 8, 1941, but a declared war had already been going on for over two years - and we had already taken sides. Your analogy to mutually assured destruction doesn't fit. You may be thinking more along the lines of massive retaliation a policy pushed by John Foster Dulles, Eisehhower's Secretary of State. MAD certainly does fit - in the context I stated. MAD is the common name for the functional policy the evolved from evolved then, although it likely never appeared under that name on any official documents. MAD worked, for both sides, as an effective deterrent in the cold war. A policy of threatened massive retaliation simply dosn't work well as a deterrent against terrorism. History provides ample proof, including the events of yesterday. I never thought Oklahoma City bombing was the work of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists. But our national press immediately, and with no evidence, leapt to exactly that conclusion. That was my point. I don't know how exactly to punish countries which harbor terrorists. Usually the regimes are unaffected and the people suffer. Violations of embargoes grow rampant over time. Military attacks often unite People under the most despicable of leaderships. History is rife with everyday people fighting valliantly under such circumstances. Agreed in whole. That is what makes fighting terrorism so extremely difficult. -Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] PS: I will now respect Jared's wishes and discontinue all further discussions on this topic. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: MacGregor, Ian A. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Since you are acting extremely arrogant, severely distorting what I said, and insisting on having the last word, I'll have to break my pledge not to respond and spell it out for you. Ian says: I was going to write a huge message detailing my excellent knowledege of Wordl war II history, but I cannot argue against someone who accepts that war was not declared, but insists there was a declared war. Facts: Sept 3, 1939 - Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany. Sept 10, 1939 - Canada declares war on Germany; Battle of the Atlantic begins Although the US proclaimed neutrality, we were functionally allied with Britain, et al as early as 1939. (What do you think the battle of the Atlantic was over?) The US had not declared war on anyone, nor had anyone declared war on us - as of the morning of Dec 7, 1941. I have never said otherwise, in spite of your constant distortions. At the time of Pearl Harbor, WWII had been underway and declared (between our allies England/Canada/etc. and Japan's ally Germany) for over two years. We were obviously aligned. That is what I said in my initial post - nothing more. I never said that there was a formal declaration of war between the US and Japan prior to Pearl Harbor. That was your distortion. Ian says: I respectfully suggest you check on the history of World War II in the Pacific. There wasn't much fighting going on. Lots of capitulation to Japanese demands, some local resistance, but certainly no war. I do agree we were preparing for war with Japan long before Pearl Harbor. OK. That's fair I'll double check... Facts: July 1937 - 2nd Sino-Japanese War breaks out Dec 1937 - atrocities committed by Jananese during the occupation of Nanking (See: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/nanking.html) Mar. 31, 1939 - Yonai announces occupation of Hainan and Spratly Islands Aug. 20, 1939 - Zhukov defeats Japan at Nomonhan on Mongolian border May 16, 1940 - Sayre advised FDR that Japan wanted to retire gracefully from burdensome China war June 22, 1940 - Petain closed Indochina route to Chiang Sept. 4, 1940 - Hull warned Konoye to stay out of Indochina Sept. 22,1940 - Japanese troops crossed into Indochina; Vichy forced to agree Sept. 27, 1940 - Tripartite Pact with Japan, Germany, Italy Nov. 30, 1940 - FDR gave $100m loan to Chiang and 50 planes to Chennault's secret group of U.S. volunteer airmen, the Flying Tigers, helping Chiang at Chungking Apr. 13, 1941 - Matsuoka signs Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact May 9, 1941 - Japan-Thailand Treaty threatens Burma and Malay July 25, 1941 - Japan announces Indochina protectorate July 28, 1941 - Japan begins military occupation of bases to prepare for invasions of Malay July 30, 1941 - U.S. gunboat Tutiula damaged by Japan planes near Chungking Aug. 20, 1941 - Col. William Farthing report emphasizes B-17 defense of Pearl Sept. 3, 1941 - FDR rejects Konoye summit until major principles agreed on first Sept. 4, 1941 - FDR closes Panama Canal to Japanese shipping Oct. 15, 1941 - FDR tells Churchill: Japan situation definitely worse. I think they are headed north. etc The (partial list) above sure sounds a lot like war to me. Can anyone honestly read the reference above to the events in Nanking and say it was not war? There seem to have been a lot of such local resistance in China - and elsewhere. If the actions of Japan in China and Indochina between 1937 and Dec 7, 1941 do not constitute war, what exactly does? Also, does eventual capitulation to vastly superior military forces mean it was not war? If so, then was the Gulf War against Iraq not a war? The question here is not even about who is splitting hairs about the definition of war, as I was originally going to suggest. The history books seem to acknowledge this as war. It even has a name - 'The Second Sino-Jananese War. Perhaps everyone, except Ian of course, is wrong though. Ian says: You have redefined MAD. Abraham Lincoln, Once asked, If you call the tail of a dog a leg, how many legs does it have? Five, someone answered. No, said Lincoln, Four. Calling a leg a tail doesn't make it so. I didn't mean to convey that either you or I suppported massive retaliation. I did mean to convey that Nuking Half the Third World is more inline with that policy as opposed to MAD as the rest of the world understands it Clever answer! Too bad it is entirely inapplicable. I've heard the Lincoln quote before and use it also, but I fail to see the relevance to this discussion. I have not redefined MAD, as you argue so often and so vehemently. As for your insistance that mutual assured destruction and massive retalitation are somehow completely separate, perhaps a neutral reference might help clear this up. Try http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/34119.html . Therein is a paragraph that says: During the cold war, the nuclear strategies of the United States and the USSR ranged from straightforward deterrence to the threat of
Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Looks like the Pentagon was also just bombed. Denise Gwinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
we just lost the 2nd tower. Mark Leith wrote: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Drake INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Actually the World Trade Center is no more. Both towers have collapsed in on themselves. As for the economy, it will have global implications. Rachel, are you on today? How close is all this to you? Rodd Original Message On 9/11/01, 9:25:27 AM, Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding OT: STOP THE PRESS!!: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Terror attacks hit U.S. September 11, 2001 Posted: 1457 GMT People walk away from the World Trade Center as ash rains down. NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings. * In the first attack, a plane hit the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapsed. * About an hour later, a plane crashed into the Pentagon, part of which later collapsed. * American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in tragic accidents: Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard and Flight 77 from Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both planes were en route to Los Angeles * United Airlines Flight 93 airliner headed from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, crashed near Somerset, Pennsylvania -- police said initial reports indicated no survivors. It was not known if this was connected to the attacks. United also said it was deeply concerned about Flight l75 from Boston to Los Angeles. * The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated. * In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports. * All international flights were diverted to Canada. * Israel has evacuated all its missions around the world. * President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes apparent terrorist attacks and a national tragedy. * In Chicago, the Sears Tower was evacuated; United Nations in New York evacuated. * The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta was evacuated. CDC was preparing bioterrorism teams in case they become necessary. * The New York Port Authority said it had closed all bridges and tunnels into the city. * New York's Bellevue Hospital was designated command central for handling the catastrophe. Several hospitals have already reported receiving victims with burns and head injuries. * U.S. stock markets were closed after the New York attacks. -- Chris J. Guidry P.Eng. ATCO Electric, Metering Services Phone: (780) 420-4142 Fax: (780) 420-3854 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rodd Holman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 09:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!! Actually the World Trade Center is no more. Both towers have collapsed in on themselves. As for the economy, it will have global implications. Rachel, are you on today? How close is all this to you? Rodd Original Message On 9/11/01, 9:25:27 AM, Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding OT: STOP THE PRESS!!: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
and the State Department in DC. WTC 1 and 2 are down pray for the familes.. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Looks like the Pentagon was also just bombed. Denise Gwinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Re. NY, a canadian news site posted this phone number if you have friends / relatives in NYC: FRIENDS/FAMILY IN NYC ? CALL 1-800-387-3124 The url for this site is www.bourque.com Pat. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
I emailed her as soon as I heard. I haven't seen any messages from her. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually the World Trade Center is no more. Both towers have collapsed in on themselves. As for the economy, it will have global implications. Rachel, are you on today? How close is all this to you? Rodd Original Message On 9/11/01, 9:25:27 AM, Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding OT: STOP THE PRESS!!: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and/or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We accept no liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: April Wells INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Hi. Rachel is fine, but currently offline. Her office is about 2 miles north of WTC. The NYOUG General Meeting scheduled for tomorrow (Sept. 12) has been cancelled. Paul Rodd Holman wrote: Actually the World Trade Center is no more. Both towers have collapsed in on themselves. As for the economy, it will have global implications. Rachel, are you on today? How close is all this to you? Rodd Original Message On 9/11/01, 9:25:27 AM, Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding OT: STOP THE PRESS!!: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Drake INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
Not just the pentagon, the world trade centres in New York were crashed by 2 planes as well. -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 09/11/2001 10:45 PM Looks like the Pentagon was also just bombed. Denise Gwinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: CHAN Chor Ling Catherine (CSC) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
I actually think the next 12 months the government will step in an freeze the ecomony, then we will have post war boom near after. Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually the World Trade Center is no more. Both towers have collapsed in on themselves. As for the economy, it will have global implications. Rachel, are you on today? How close is all this to you? Rodd Original Message On 9/11/01, 9:25:27 AM, Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding OT: STOP THE PRESS!!: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
All those people. We may look back at this as the day the history of the world was changed. I fear this has enormous implications for the way in which our society has previously conducted itself. My heart aches. David A. Barbour Oracle DBA, OCP AISD 512-414-1002 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
They attack when they sense weakness. Lagging economy, dumb guy in charge. They never hit hard enough though. If its not a knockout punch then they're going down. Remember what happened after Pearl Harbor? -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Looks like the Pentagon was also just bombed. Denise Gwinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). * * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherman, Edward INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!!
I'm sorry for scaring people, I left the office and had no internet connection until I got home. But I was in touch with people from the list, I see they kept you all up to date From: April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: STOP THE PRESS!! Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:10:26 -0800 I emailed her as soon as I heard. I haven't seen any messages from her. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually the World Trade Center is no more. Both towers have collapsed in on themselves. As for the economy, it will have global implications. Rachel, are you on today? How close is all this to you? Rodd Original Message On 9/11/01, 9:25:27 AM, Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding OT: STOP THE PRESS!!: List, I am sure many of you Americans will have woken to this news, or maybe you got to work before it happened: I just saw on the news the World Trade Centre in NY, has just taken two direct hits from two separate aeroplanes!! Suspected to be a terrorist assault. Full video the lot!! They hit around the top of the buildings.. My heart goes out to those in the buildings.. What will THIS do for the American economy? Mark === Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281 Sales Marketing | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283 Cool Tools UK Ltd | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://www.cool-tools.co.uk Maximising throughput performance -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and/or price sensitive. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We accept no liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: April Wells INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
