RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Walt,
Any
thoughts on the partitioning schemes I mentioned?
Wouldn't this reduce the load on the daemon?
In
addition, might the daemon be processor affinitied or nice'd to
a better level?
I smell
a solution, mate.
I am
most curious to hear your thoughts..
-
Ross
-Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 6:09
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Thanks for the input, Ross.
As
far as data corruption goes, it's neither semantic nor physical (well, there
can be some semantic corruption in certain circumstances, but they're being
worked on. We call them "bugs" here.) :)
Our
developers seem to have inadvertantly gotten a grasp on the concept of an
atomic transaction, and have coded many, many of them. As you know, MySQL does
not do referential integrity, so all of our referential integrity is done at
the application level. What appears to be happening is that during periods of
heavy load the MySQL daemon occasionally gets confused in the midst of an
"atomic" transaction and parts of the transaction are committed to the
database while parts aren't. In fact, during periods of heavy load the MySQL
daemon just gives up the ghost anddies. This is what we believe causes
the data corruption.
BTW,
there's no concept of a rollback in MySQL, either. That can be a problem when
a transaction doesn't complete. :)
Could we really be seeing semantic or physical
corruption and not realizing it? Well, maybe. But, we've moved our biggest,
most active customers from MySQL to Oracle and their data corruption problems
disappear.
MySQL definitely has its place in the world, and it
had a place in ours back before we had customers beating on our databases.
But, we're growing up now, and like all grown-up guys we're looking for
bigger, more expensive toys. Oracle certainly fits that bill.
:)
--Walt Weaver
Bozeman, Montana, USA
-Original Message-From:
Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01,
2001 2:21 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription
Service
Walt,
Love that last line. But, i'll resist the temptation to bite the
bait.
For you other stuff, i've embedded some newbie
comments
below...stuff you've likely seen, heard, or thought about
before.
thx
Ross
-Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001
3:27 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription
Service
In addition, since MySQL has no concept of a
transaction or rollback, data corruption is a constant problem.
||
Huh? Semantic corruption due to lack of developer transaction
control is one thing. Actual, physical
corruption
is a CONTROLLER or
DISK problem. Or izzit something else? Your developers should be able to
manage
transactions on
the client, hell, all Oracle does is put x-action control in the db so the
developers need to
think less (
"less", not "not at all") about it.. If you are talking about a
hardware problem, you gotta fix
that...if it is
semantic..i.e. code stepping on 'in flight' data, have a real sit down
with your developers.
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Hang on to your wallets. Oracle announced that the latest returns would not meet the market expectations. Real $.10 Market $.12 stock dropped to $17 and change this morning. Maybe it was a fallout from BILL C@$$## ROR mm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
I heard one reason that was done is because one of those costs is tax deductable, but not the other (don't remember which). Henry -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Cool, thanks for the info Sarah, I hadn't seen that split. I'll check it when I get our next bill. I will be glad to be able to only pay for upgrades which I use, and not the support, which I have not used in over 5 years. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Walt, Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a chance to say we only need one of those pieces! Sarah Satterthwaite Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc Cambridge, MA "Weaver, Walt" wrote: Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sarah Satterthwaite INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this email is intended for the personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may also be privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Celltech Group immediately on: +44 (0)1753 534655, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Celltech Group plc 216 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4EN, Berkshire, UK Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2159282 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Maser, Donna (SEA) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Thanks
for the input, Ross.
As far
as data corruption goes, it's neither semantic nor physical (well, there can be
some semantic corruption in certain circumstances, but they're being worked on.
We call them "bugs" here.) :)
Our
developers seem to have inadvertantly gotten a grasp on the concept of an atomic
transaction, and have coded many, many of them. As you know, MySQL does not do
referential integrity, so all of our referential integrity is done at the
application level. What appears to be happening is that during periods of heavy
load the MySQL daemon occasionally gets confused in the midst of an "atomic"
transaction and parts of the transaction are committed to the database while
parts aren't. In fact, during periods of heavy load the MySQL daemon just gives
up the ghost anddies. This is what we believe causes the data
corruption.
BTW,
there's no concept of a rollback in MySQL, either. That can be a problem when a
transaction doesn't complete. :)
Could
we really be seeing semantic or physical corruption and not realizing it? Well,
maybe. But, we've moved our biggest, most active customers from MySQL to Oracle
and their data corruption problems disappear.
MySQL
definitely has its place in the world, and it had a place in ours back before we
had customers beating on our databases. But, we're growing up now, and like all
grown-up guys we're looking for bigger, more expensive toys. Oracle certainly
fits that bill. :)
--Walt
Weaver
Bozeman, Montana, USA
-Original Message-From: Mohan,
Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:21
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Walt,
Love
that last line. But, i'll resist the temptation to bite the bait.
For
you other stuff, i've embedded some newbie comments
below...stuff you've likely seen, heard, or thought about
before.
thx
Ross
-Original Message-From: Weaver, Walt
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 3:27
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
In
addition, since MySQL has no concept of a transaction or rollback, data
corruption is a constant problem.
|| Huh?
Semantic corruption due to lack of developer transaction control is one
thing. Actual, physical corruption
is a CONTROLLER or
DISK problem. Or izzit something else? Your developers should be able to
manage
transactions on the
client, hell, all Oracle does is put x-action control in the db so the
developers need to
think less ( "less",
not "not at all") about it.. If you are talking about a hardware
problem, you gotta fix
that...if it is
semantic..i.e. code stepping on 'in flight' data, have a real sit down with
your developers.
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a discouraging word. Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to folks is: For your money, Oracle is the best database...if it were my money, it would be almost anything but.. MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Title: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Well Ross, Our campus is out in the country (just about everywhere in Montana is out in the country) and we are, indeed, surrounded by docile ruminants. I'd like to say that during our off-time we go out and gaze lovingly at their udders, but there are other things we prefer to gaze at lovingly. Of course, we have no problems doing online dairy backups around here. :) We use MySQL here and yes it's tunable. There's even word out on the street that soon MySQL may support the concept of a transaction. What a concept. MySQL has its place, but it's causing us no end of pain here. It doesn't scale well enough to support what we're doing. That's why we're painfully biting the bullet and paying the big bucks for Oracle. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message-From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:51 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Walt, you have just shattered my picture of you as a gentle man surrounded by docile ruminants, never uddering a discouraging word. Yes, it's amazing, the price of the software. My line to folks is: "For your money, Oracle is the best database...if it were my money, it would be almost anything but.." MySQL *is* tunable.could be fun -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Walt, Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a chance to say we only need one of those pieces! Sarah Satterthwaite Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc Cambridge, MA "Weaver, Walt" wrote: Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sarah Satterthwaite INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle's Updates Subscription Service
Does anyone know - will I still have access to Metalink if I will not pay for the support? TIA, Michael Netrusov, www.atelo.com (202) 262 8469 (877) 528 0090 - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 20:20 Cool, thanks for the info Sarah, I hadn't seen that split. I'll check it when I get our next bill. I will be glad to be able to only pay for upgrades which I use, and not the support, which I have not used in over 5 years. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Walt, Last summer we noticed our support bill was split into two pieces--one for support and one for upgrades. You can still buy both. I didn't notice that it was a lot more in total than before, but it does give a cost cutter a chance to say we only need one of those pieces! Sarah Satterthwaite Case, Shiller, Weiss, Inc Cambridge, MA "Weaver, Walt" wrote: Say, is it just me or has the cost of the Updates Subscription Service gone up considerably in the past six months or so? We're currently pricing out what it'll cost us to purchase 8.1.7 Standard Edition and the numbers we're getting are a heck of a lot higher than they were in November. Has the cost of CD-ROM's gone up that much? Is the economy now in an inflationary period? Where's Allen Greenspan when you need him? Whatever happened to those hazy, golden, halcyon days when upgrades were included in product support? Sometimes, Oracle just sucks. I'm seriously considering getting on track for a MySQL certification. :) --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sarah Satterthwaite INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this email is intended for the personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may also be privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Celltech Group immediately on: +44 (0)1753 534655, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Celltech Group plc 216 Bath Road, Slough, SL1 4EN, Berkshire, UK Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2159282 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Maser, Donna (SEA) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Netrusov INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You
