RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Patrice, This is great stuff, thanks. "Boivin, Patrice J" To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: mpo.gc.ca> Subject: RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/28/01 05:10 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Here are my comments, speaking from personal experience as an Oracle DBA for 3 years on Tru64 UNIX and NT databases. I am also doubling as the NT administrator now. There is another Oracle DBA (more experienced than me), and there are 3 UNIX system administrators. 10 NT servers (2 old OWS 3.0.1.1., 2 iAs 9i, 1 used to have 5 7.3.4.4. instances on it, one has 3 8.1.7. instances on it), with 5 Digital (sorry, Compaq) Tru64 UNIX servers, with 1-3 instances on them). This is my perception at this point. Microsoft marketing is very strong. Managers use Windows9x/ME, so they think WindowsNT/2000 is easy too. Heck they know little about computers and they can run MS Office and Outlook no problem, imagine what the techies downstairs could do with the server OS from Microsoft! Most managers don't use computers - they need the latest laptops etc. for office status purposes, but they don't use them for much more than running MS Office and Outlook. They read ComputerWorld and they see PC Magazine and PC World in the pharmacies, that's about it. They also notice that none of the UNIX vendors ever advertise on TV (what's up with that?). The people who decide where to spend the money are not the people who have to work with the systems. In a good shop they would consult the people below, but often they end up deciding first and arguing (or delaying purchase indefinitely) if the techies down below question their decision). Do they take into account replacing all their servers to keep NT/2000 running? I imagine their existing machines can't run NT or Windows2000. The point someone else made about training is a valid one, management may be thinking that training is not required at all for NT because it's a Windows OS and the techies can do anything, or that MCSEs are a dime a dozen now so staff costs will be lower. Problem is, they will need more staff to keep the NT servers going than for an equivalent number of UNIX machines - once a UNIX box runs, it runs reliably. UNIX machines are not affected by the likes of NIMDA, BackOrifice and other tools out there. Most hackers don't have grudges against UNIX systems, but they certainly do against Microsoft. Have you updated your virus files lately? If using McAfee, is your engine up to date? Have you checked your Event Viewer security log? Has auditing even been enabled on your system? You realize that auditing is shut off by default on NT. (also not taught in the NT4 MCSE classes). Anyone with a copy of a server's ERD can crack the passwords of all the user accounts that server has seen since the OS was installed. If someone gets the ERD from your BDC or PDC, you are royally screwed. How many ERDs are lying around in your computer room? Do contractors / term / casual employees ever go in there, and do any of them have any reason to be unhappy with the way your company is treating them? If one ERD is missing, how long will it take for anyone to notice? The attitude that "NT is just Windows" doesn't help security at all, the OS has to be taken seriously. If your machines have to be secure, get ready to spend time doing it. More time than if it was a UNIX host. We
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
I forgot to mention, two years ago I tried to use the NT Performance Monitor to track usage of five Oracle 7.3.4.4. databases on one NT server, and learned that Performance Monitor only lets you monitor one database at once. I don't know if this is still the case with 8i and Win2K, but it tells me that NT wasn't written to track multiple copies of the same program, it was designed to run one copy of each program. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- From: Boivin, Patrice J [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:10 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT Here are my comments, speaking from personal experience as an Oracle DBA for 3 years on Tru64 UNIX and NT databases. I am also doubling as the NT administrator now. There is another Oracle DBA (more experienced than me), and there are 3 UNIX system administrators. 10 NT servers (2 old OWS 3.0.1.1., 2 iAs 9i, 1 used to have 5 7.3.4.4. instances on it, one has 3 8.1.7. instances on it), with 5 Digital (sorry, Compaq) Tru64 UNIX servers, with 1-3 instances on them). This is my perception at this point. Microsoft marketing is very strong. Managers use Windows9x/ME, so they think WindowsNT/2000 is easy too. Heck they know little about computers and they can run MS Office and Outlook no problem, imagine what the techies downstairs could do with the server OS from Microsoft! Most managers don't use computers - they need the latest laptops etc. for office status purposes, but they don't use them for much more than running MS Office and Outlook. They read ComputerWorld and they see PC Magazine and PC World in the pharmacies, that's about it. They also notice that none of the UNIX vendors ever advertise on TV (what's up with that?). The people who decide where to spend the money are not the people who have to work with the systems. In a good shop they would consult the people below, but often they end up deciding first and arguing (or delaying purchase indefinitely) if the techies down below question their decision). Do they take into account replacing all their servers to keep NT/2000 running? I imagine their existing machines can't run NT or Windows2000. The point someone else made about training is a valid one, management may be thinking that training is not required at all for NT because it's a Windows OS and the techies can do anything, or that MCSEs are a dime a dozen now so staff costs will be lower. Problem is, they will need more staff to keep the NT servers going than for an equivalent number of UNIX machines - once a UNIX box runs, it runs reliably. UNIX machines are not affected by the likes of NIMDA, BackOrifice and other tools out there. Most hackers don't have grudges against UNIX systems, but they certainly do against Microsoft. Have you updated your virus files lately? If using McAfee, is your engine up to date? Have you checked your Event Viewer security log? Has auditing even been enabled on your system? You realize that auditing is shut off by default on NT. (also not taught in the NT4 MCSE classes). Anyone with a copy of a server's ERD can crack the passwords of all the user accounts that server has seen since the OS was installed. If someone gets the ERD from your BDC or PDC, you are royally screwed. How many ERDs are lying around in your computer room? Do contractors / term / casual employees ever go in there, and do any of them have any reason to be unhappy with the way your company is treating them? If one ERD is missing, how long will it take for anyone to notice? The attitude that "NT is just Windows" doesn't help security at all, the OS has to be taken seriously. If your machines have to be secure, get ready to spend time doing it. More time than if it was a UNIX host. Web servers should use something other than IIS, IIS is popular because... it's freeware. The Gardner Group earlier this year advised people not to use IIS, because it is not secure. iAS went with Apache on Windows, which is a bit of an oxymoron, Apache should be running on UNIX. iAS made the right decision, but it illustrates that the OS ends up running a UNIX web server ported to NT. Like it is used to run a UNIX-based database (Oracle) on NT. Why not just use UNIX? To do remote admin, they will have to purchase a 3rd party tool like PC Duo if they are using NT. NT ass
Re: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Thank you very much to all that responded and contributed their time. I'll be saving this thread! I got more anecdotal evidence than I thought I might. Can it be true that few more-formal "reports" have been written on this subject? It sure seems like a hot-button issue. Thanks again, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:15 AM Patrice, Thank you very much for the time you spent putting this together. It is VERY informative, and I am keeping it forever! thanks again! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Patrice, Thank you very much for the time you spent putting this together. It is VERY informative, and I am keeping it forever! thanks again! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:10 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Here are my comments, speaking from personal experience as an Oracle DBA for 3 years on Tru64 UNIX and NT databases. I am also doubling as the NT administrator now. There is another Oracle DBA (more experienced than me), and there are 3 UNIX system administrators. 10 NT servers (2 old OWS 3.0.1.1., 2 iAs 9i, 1 used to have 5 7.3.4.4. instances on it, one has 3 8.1.7. instances on it), with 5 Digital (sorry, Compaq) Tru64 UNIX servers, with 1-3 instances on them). This is my perception at this point. Microsoft marketing is very strong. Managers use Windows9x/ME, so they think WindowsNT/2000 is easy too. Heck they know little about computers and they can run MS Office and Outlook no problem, imagine what the techies downstairs could do with the server OS from Microsoft! Most managers don't use computers - they need the latest laptops etc. for office status purposes, but they don't use them for much more than running MS Office and Outlook. They read ComputerWorld and they see PC Magazine and PC World in the pharmacies, that's about it. They also notice that none of the UNIX vendors ever advertise on TV (what's up with that?). The people who decide where to spend the money are not the people who have to work with the systems. In a good shop they would consult the people below, but often they end up deciding first and arguing (or delaying purchase indefinitely) if the techies down below question their decision). Do they take into account replacing all their servers to keep NT/2000 running? I imagine their existing machines can't run NT or Windows2000. The point someone else made about training is a valid one, management may be thinking that training is not required at all for NT because it's a Windows OS and the techies can do anything, or that MCSEs are a dime a dozen now so staff costs will be lower. Problem is, they will need more staff to keep the NT servers going than for an equivalent number of UNIX machines - once a UNIX box runs, it runs reliably. UNIX machines are not affected by the likes of NIMDA, BackOrifice and other tools out there. Most hackers don't have grudges against UNIX systems, but they certainly do against Microsoft. Have you updated your virus files lately? If using McAfee, is your engine up to date? Have you checked your Event Viewer security log? Has auditing even been enabled on your system? You realize that auditing is shut off by default on NT. (also not taught in the NT4 MCSE classes). Anyone with a copy of a server's ERD can crack the passwords of all the user accounts that server has seen since the OS was installed. If someone gets the ERD from your BDC or PDC, you are royally screwed. How many ERDs are lying around in your computer room? Do contractors / term / casual employees ever go in there, and do any of them have any reason to be unhappy with the way your company is treating them? If one ERD is missing, how long will it take for anyone to notice? The attitude that "NT is just Windows" doesn't help security at all, the OS has to be taken seriously. If your machines have to be secure, get ready to spend time doing it. More time than if it was a UNIX host. Web servers should use something other than IIS, IIS is popular because... it's freeware. The Gardner Group earlier this year advised people not to use IIS, because it is not secure. iAS went with Apache on Windows, which is a bit of an oxymoron, Apache should be running on UNIX. iAS made the right decision, but it illustrates that the OS ends up running a UNIX web server ported to NT. Like it is used to run a UNIX-based database (Oracle) on NT. Why not just use UNIX? To do remote admin, they will have to purchase a 3rd party tool like PC Duo if they are using NT. NT assumes an administrator would be at the server. You can't telnet to NT systems because NT behaves like a home operating system, it assumes you are sitting at the machine (may be possible with Windows2000, not sure). You can purchase 3rd party telnet software, but you won't have access to the desktop. Scripting on NT is not as "user-friendly" as it is in UNIX. Retrieve from archives those old DOS scripting books. NT and Windows2000 offer more commands, but at the core the scripting is still the same. The AT command used to run scripts on schedule in NT 4.0 is 99.9% reliable, but not 100% reliable. I ended up having to install a 3rd party utility called crontab for Windows to keep my backup scripts running reliably. The time clock keeps slipping back, esp. if your CPU is busy. So you will have to hook up the machine to a time server somewhere. Every time there is a new version, you have to purchase it and upgrade t
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Here are my comments, speaking from personal experience as an Oracle DBA for 3 years on Tru64 UNIX and NT databases. I am also doubling as the NT administrator now. There is another Oracle DBA (more experienced than me), and there are 3 UNIX system administrators. 10 NT servers (2 old OWS 3.0.1.1., 2 iAs 9i, 1 used to have 5 7.3.4.4. instances on it, one has 3 8.1.7. instances on it), with 5 Digital (sorry, Compaq) Tru64 UNIX servers, with 1-3 instances on them). This is my perception at this point. Microsoft marketing is very strong. Managers use Windows9x/ME, so they think WindowsNT/2000 is easy too. Heck they know little about computers and they can run MS Office and Outlook no problem, imagine what the techies downstairs could do with the server OS from Microsoft! Most managers don't use computers - they need the latest laptops etc. for office status purposes, but they don't use them for much more than running MS Office and Outlook. They read ComputerWorld and they see PC Magazine and PC World in the pharmacies, that's about it. They also notice that none of the UNIX vendors ever advertise on TV (what's up with that?). The people who decide where to spend the money are not the people who have to work with the systems. In a good shop they would consult the people below, but often they end up deciding first and arguing (or delaying purchase indefinitely) if the techies down below question their decision). Do they take into account replacing all their servers to keep NT/2000 running? I imagine their existing machines can't run NT or Windows2000. The point someone else made about training is a valid one, management may be thinking that training is not required at all for NT because it's a Windows OS and the techies can do anything, or that MCSEs are a dime a dozen now so staff costs will be lower. Problem is, they will need more staff to keep the NT servers going than for an equivalent number of UNIX machines - once a UNIX box runs, it runs reliably. UNIX machines are not affected by the likes of NIMDA, BackOrifice and other tools out there. Most hackers don't have grudges against UNIX systems, but they certainly do against Microsoft. Have you updated your virus files lately? If using McAfee, is your engine up to date? Have you checked your Event Viewer security log? Has auditing even been enabled on your system? You realize that auditing is shut off by default on NT. (also not taught in the NT4 MCSE classes). Anyone with a copy of a server's ERD can crack the passwords of all the user accounts that server has seen since the OS was installed. If someone gets the ERD from your BDC or PDC, you are royally screwed. How many ERDs are lying around in your computer room? Do contractors / term / casual employees ever go in there, and do any of them have any reason to be unhappy with the way your company is treating them? If one ERD is missing, how long will it take for anyone to notice? The attitude that "NT is just Windows" doesn't help security at all, the OS has to be taken seriously. If your machines have to be secure, get ready to spend time doing it. More time than if it was a UNIX host. Web servers should use something other than IIS, IIS is popular because... it's freeware. The Gardner Group earlier this year advised people not to use IIS, because it is not secure. iAS went with Apache on Windows, which is a bit of an oxymoron, Apache should be running on UNIX. iAS made the right decision, but it illustrates that the OS ends up running a UNIX web server ported to NT. Like it is used to run a UNIX-based database (Oracle) on NT. Why not just use UNIX? To do remote admin, they will have to purchase a 3rd party tool like PC Duo if they are using NT. NT assumes an administrator would be at the server. You can't telnet to NT systems because NT behaves like a home operating system, it assumes you are sitting at the machine (may be possible with Windows2000, not sure). You can purchase 3rd party telnet software, but you won't have access to the desktop. Scripting on NT is not as "user-friendly" as it is in UNIX. Retrieve from archives those old DOS scripting books. NT and Windows2000 offer more commands, but at the core the scripting is still the same. The AT command used to run scripts on schedule in NT 4.0 is 99.9% reliable, but not 100% reliable. I ended up having to install a 3rd party utility called crontab for Windows to keep my backup scripts running reliably. The time clock keeps slipping back, esp. if your CPU is busy. So you will have to hook up the machine to a time server somewhere. Every time there is a new version, you have to purchase it and upgrade the hardware. Much of your 3rd party and your in-house applications will have to be ported to the new version. I don't know if this is the case with UNIX variants. NT carries along with it a huge kernel, and a thick layer of graphics on top of it. To make all that work at a speed equivalent to UNIX, it
Re: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Paul, Here's a place to start. The first link on this page is John Kirch's famous Unix vs. NT arcticle. http://people.freebsd.org/~andreas/unix-vs-nt/ By the by, has management made a business case for moving it to NT? If you have access to Gartner, they may have something helpful. Most IS types still don't consider NT/Win2k an acceptable substitute for unix, shouldn't be too hard to find some good info. HTH Jared "Paul Vallee" an.com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 11/27/01 09:45 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Sounds like some inverted thinking by management... justify not making the change(?). Usually you would have a cost-based analysis for making the change. I've never seen one that would justify NT (I'd love to see it if they have one). Both Solaris and Linux are alternatives to the OS-specific hardware issues since they run very well on Intel systems. However, when you price out similar Intel-based or Sparc-based hardware, the cost is the same. If they want cheaper hardware, they can buy that. It makes no difference. Since it is already a UNIX shop I am assuming there is no problem finding personnel. They sound confused. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Troiano, Paul (CAP, GEFA) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Paul - then I would check for a paper from a Unix vendor that discusses total cost of ownership. A good place to start might be the Sun Web site since Sun is the major Unix vendor that doesn't offer NT systems. Start looking at the cost of downtime for your organization. Then there is the cost of retraining your system administrators to the point that they can handle NT well. I think that is where most organizations like yours end up with unhappy NT experiences, they neglect to bring their staff up to standards, feeling it is "just a Windows system", and therefore anyone can keep it running. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 1:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually, Dennis, it's currently a UNIX shop considering saving money by migrating to NT. It seems like your argument would support sticking with what they currently have. Thanks, Paul - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:10 PM Paul - What is the base of experience in this shop? Is it primarily an NT shop and the Unix system is the odd one, or is it primarily a Unix shop and the NT conversion would be a first plunge? Everything I hear depends primarily on this factor. Most indications are that the Unix systems tend to be more reliable, but there are strong NT shops that seem to keep their NT reliability up, and would struggle with the odd Unix system. I assume that you are really talking Windows 2000 at this point. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).
Re: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
If they're currently a unix shop and want to save money, why not suggest Linux? It will run on the same hardware as Windows, and they can leverage their existing unix experience. Dennis Paul Vallee wrote: > > Actually, Dennis, it's currently a UNIX shop considering saving money by > migrating to NT. It seems like your argument would support sticking with > what they currently have. > Thanks, > Paul > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:10 PM > > Paul - What is the base of experience in this shop? Is it primarily an NT > shop and the Unix system is the odd one, or is it primarily a Unix shop and > the NT conversion would be a first plunge? Everything I hear depends > primarily on this factor. Most indications are that the Unix systems tend to > be more reliable, but there are strong NT shops that seem to keep their NT > reliability up, and would struggle with the odd Unix system. I assume that > you are really talking Windows 2000 at this point. > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis M. Heisler INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Paul, I think Dennis makes a great point here. If your organization thinks that they can save money by switching hardware, you should point out that all of the Unix admins will need NT Admin classes as part of the migration to the new environment. As I've said in the past, a well-maintained professionally administered NT platform works just fine for most Oracle OLTP applications. Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually, Dennis, it's currently a UNIX shop considering saving money by migrating to NT. It seems like your argument would support sticking with what they currently have. Thanks, Paul - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:10 PM Paul - What is the base of experience in this shop? Is it primarily an NT shop and the Unix system is the odd one, or is it primarily a Unix shop and the NT conversion would be a first plunge? Everything I hear depends primarily on this factor. Most indications are that the Unix systems tend to be more reliable, but there are strong NT shops that seem to keep their NT reliability up, and would struggle with the odd Unix system. I assume that you are really talking Windows 2000 at this point. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Paul, If they want to save $$$ they could consider migrating to LINUX. For a UNIX shop it is a more logical migration than NT/2000. Or, is their idea to get rid of higher priced SA's in favor of NT Admins which they think they should pay less? In which case the outcome is decided all ready. Rodd Holman On Tue, 2001-11-27 at 13:30, Paul Vallee wrote: Actually, Dennis, it's currently a UNIX shop considering saving money by migrating to NT. It seems like your argument would support sticking with what they currently have. Thanks, Paul - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:10 PM Paul - What is the base of experience in this shop? Is it primarily an NT shop and the Unix system is the odd one, or is it primarily a Unix shop and the NT conversion would be a first plunge? Everything I hear depends primarily on this factor. Most indications are that the Unix systems tend to be more reliable, but there are strong NT shops that seem to keep their NT reliability up, and would struggle with the odd Unix system. I assume that you are really talking Windows 2000 at this point. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Rodd Holman Enterprise Data Systems Engineer LodgeNet Entertainment Corporation [EMAIL PROTECTED] (605) 988-1373 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, inclu
Re: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Actually, Dennis, it's currently a UNIX shop considering saving money by migrating to NT. It seems like your argument would support sticking with what they currently have. Thanks, Paul - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:10 PM Paul - What is the base of experience in this shop? Is it primarily an NT shop and the Unix system is the odd one, or is it primarily a Unix shop and the NT conversion would be a first plunge? Everything I hear depends primarily on this factor. Most indications are that the Unix systems tend to be more reliable, but there are strong NT shops that seem to keep their NT reliability up, and would struggle with the odd Unix system. I assume that you are really talking Windows 2000 at this point. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle/UNIX vs. Oracle/NT
Paul - What is the base of experience in this shop? Is it primarily an NT shop and the Unix system is the odd one, or is it primarily a Unix shop and the NT conversion would be a first plunge? Everything I hear depends primarily on this factor. Most indications are that the Unix systems tend to be more reliable, but there are strong NT shops that seem to keep their NT reliability up, and would struggle with the odd Unix system. I assume that you are really talking Windows 2000 at this point. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello everyone, I'm certain that this is a FAQ, but I thought I would make a request here. I have a client whose management is requesting us to make a business case for keeping our Oracle on UNIX rather than on NT. I wonder if anyone can link to or provide any of the following on this subject: * whitepapers * platform selection papers * pro/con summaries to management, no matter how informal Please help in any way you can, thanks in advance, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vallee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
