RE: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy Question?

2003-02-16 Thread Ron Yount 
Title: Message



The role of RMAN in this scenario, does not 
change, only the resources used.
 
A) Use Flashcopy to create 
Mirror
B) mount mirror with backup 
controlfile
C) run rman on server attached to split 
mirror.
 
Why bother?  Only to be used when you 
do not want the work of the backup to be done with resources on your "prod" 
database server.
 
The good news, the backup done on the remote 
server can be used to restore the db to the remote server or the production 
server (8.1.7 and up I believe).
 
HTH,
-Ron-

  
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gene SaisSent: 
  Friday, February 14, 2003 9:59 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy 
  Question?
  I plan on using a product from IBM called Flashcopy, similar to EMC's BCV 
  (third mirror).  Typically, I put the tablespaces in hot backup via 
  scripting before splitting the third mirror.  How can RMAN be used in a 
  similar fashion?  Can RMAN put the db in a hot backup state so the third 
  mirror can be split and then backed up to tape?
   
  Thanks,
  Gene

Re: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy Question?

2003-02-15 Thread Tim Gorman 



Gene,
 
The "Oracle9i RMAN User's Guide" provides instructions on this on page 
9-18.
 
I don't think that the steps mentioning ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND/RESUME and 
ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP are necessary if IBM Flashcopy can support 
splits of non-quiesced volumes (ask your AIX SA).  If it can, then only the 
steps involving CATALOG DATAFILECOPY and BACKUP/COPY DATAFILECOPY are 
relevant...
 
Hope this helps...
 
-Tim

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gene Sais 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:59 
  AM
  Subject: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy 
  Question?
  
  I plan on using a product from IBM called Flashcopy, similar to EMC's BCV 
  (third mirror).  Typically, I put the tablespaces in hot backup via 
  scripting before splitting the third mirror.  How can RMAN be used in a 
  similar fashion?  Can RMAN put the db in a hot backup state so the third 
  mirror can be split and then backed up to tape?
   
  Thanks,
  Gene

RE: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy Question?

2003-02-14 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS 
Gene - Another thought. If your organization is large enough to have
sophisticated backup, where RMAN really shines is managing many databases.
The more the better the RMAN advantage. 
 But if you have a working system and your organization is committed to
the sophisticate backup hardware, then it probably wouldn't pay to change.
Senior DBAs learn that sometimes the "right" answer isn't the "smart"
answer. 



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 12:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Thanks Dennis for your suggestions.  So it appears in my environment, I am
best off sticking w/ my trusty hot backup scripts.  Using RMAN for 3rd
mirror splits doesn't appear to benefit me.  Using RMAN to backup to a 3rd
mirror would be less efficient than using EMC BCV or IBM Flashcopy, as these
services are done internally, not at the os level.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/14/03 11:44AM >>>
Gene - Hopefully someone will have better ideas than these, but I'll make a
couple of suggestions.
   RMAN can issue SQL commands to your target database, so you could try
having it issue the alter tablespace command. Then after you do the backup
you could register the backup with RMAN. Almost more effort than it is
worth. 
   You might also consider using that extra disk space on the mirror as a
backup site for RMAN -- backup to disk then move to tape. You could compare
the various recovery scenarios and decide if this would enable you to
recover faster than a hot backup.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I plan on using a product from IBM called Flashcopy, similar to EMC's BCV
(third mirror).  Typically, I put the tablespaces in hot backup via
scripting before splitting the third mirror.  How can RMAN be used in a
similar fashion?  Can RMAN put the db in a hot backup state so the third
mirror can be split and then backed up to tape?

Thanks,
Gene

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RE: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy Question?

2003-02-14 Thread Gene Sais 


Thanks Dennis 
for your suggestions.  So it appears in my environment, I am best off 
sticking w/ my trusty hot backup scripts.  Using RMAN for 3rd mirror splits 
doesn't appear to benefit me.  Using RMAN to backup to a 3rd mirror would 
be less efficient than using EMC BCV or IBM Flashcopy, as these services are 
done internally, not at the os level.>>> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/14/03 11:44AM >>>Gene - Hopefully 
someone will have better ideas than these, but I'll make acouple of 
suggestions.   RMAN can issue SQL commands to your target 
database, so you could tryhaving it issue the alter tablespace command. Then 
after you do the backupyou could register the backup with RMAN. Almost more 
effort than it isworth.    You might also consider using that 
extra disk space on the mirror as abackup site for RMAN -- backup to disk 
then move to tape. You could comparethe various recovery scenarios and 
decide if this would enable you torecover faster than a hot 
backup.Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, 
Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-Sent: 
Friday, February 14, 2003 9:59 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LI plan on using a product from IBM called Flashcopy, similar 
to EMC's BCV(third mirror).  Typically, I put the tablespaces in hot 
backup viascripting before splitting the third mirror.  How can RMAN be 
used in asimilar fashion?  Can RMAN put the db in a hot backup state so 
the thirdmirror can be split and then backed up to 
tape?Thanks,Gene-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: 
http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: 
DENNIS WILLIAMS  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, 
California    -- Mailing list and web 
hosting 
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RE: RMAN & BCV/Flashcopy Question?

2003-02-14 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS 
Gene - Hopefully someone will have better ideas than these, but I'll make a
couple of suggestions.
   RMAN can issue SQL commands to your target database, so you could try
having it issue the alter tablespace command. Then after you do the backup
you could register the backup with RMAN. Almost more effort than it is
worth. 
   You might also consider using that extra disk space on the mirror as a
backup site for RMAN -- backup to disk then move to tape. You could compare
the various recovery scenarios and decide if this would enable you to
recover faster than a hot backup.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I plan on using a product from IBM called Flashcopy, similar to EMC's BCV
(third mirror).  Typically, I put the tablespaces in hot backup via
scripting before splitting the third mirror.  How can RMAN be used in a
similar fashion?  Can RMAN put the db in a hot backup state so the third
mirror can be split and then backed up to tape?
 
Thanks,
Gene

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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