RE: Rant-Rant
I think they may have some flawed processes because my wife received one piece of mail from them and we are more than a few years younger than 50. But Rachel, in my mind there's no way you would be even close to qualifying for their benefits. Stephen >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/23/02 11:38AM >>> what a nice way to put that :) maybe they are taking mental age into account and so think I'm about 16? either that or they have you confused with someone else, it was my understanding that they tag you as soon as you hit 50 --- "Toepke, Kevin M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm... thats intersting. I'm somewhat your junior and I've been > getting > their propaganda for a couple of years already. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) > hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, > please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are > the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 > hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but > he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one > person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they > rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit > out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I
RE: Rant-Rant
Really? I had you pegged as an E given how well you organize all the NYOUG events/people. The J part was obvious :) Jay -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L hey, I'm an infj -- according to the out placement company, I'd make a good nun (Robert, did you see my test results?) --- "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Miller, Jay INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Actually I'd think entj would be just about the ideal for a dba or sa. You have the leadership ability to ride herd on people (such as developers), are driven to keep up on the technical stuff, are well-organized enough to keep track of everything... I very aware of working against my natural instincts when I set up my backup and recovery plans, since improvisation and leaving things open is generally *not* advisable. "Oh, we'll figure it out as we go along" isn't a good choice there :), despite being my being rather good at doing just that. Jay -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How about an ENTJ as a DBA and System Admin... I'm loads of fun with a bunch of touchy feely type SP's here at the college I work for ;-) Joe On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Miller, Jay wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe LaCascio INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Miller, Jay INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
what a nice way to put that :) maybe they are taking mental age into account and so think I'm about 16? either that or they have you confused with someone else, it was my understanding that they tag you as soon as you hit 50 --- "Toepke, Kevin M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm... thats intersting. I'm somewhat your junior and I've been > getting > their propaganda for a couple of years already. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) > hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, > please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are > the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 > hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but > he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one > person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they > rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit > out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement > project > > > the existing asset m
Re: Rant-Rant
oh, thanks, but they'll start sending me stuff next year and I can wait until then :) --- KENNETH JANUSZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What's your mailing address? I can make the arrangements for you. > > Ken Janusz,CPIM > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:33 AM > > > > so sweet. so deluded. > > > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've > found > > but close > > > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) > hasn't > > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > -- > > > = > > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > > = > > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > > = > > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > > > = > > > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > > confidential > > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, > please > > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are > the > > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom > Group > > > of > > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > cc: > > > Fax to: > > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs > (one > > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 > hour > > > days". > > > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact > that > > > if > > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > > consultants > > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but > he's > > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Rachel, > > > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not > have > > > the > > > > luxury > > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one > person > > > > and > > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > > >organization > > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they > rarely > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit > out > > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > > luxury > &g
RE: Rant-Rant
Hmmm... thats intersting. I'm somewhat your junior and I've been getting their propaganda for a couple of years already. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L so sweet. so deluded. I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found but close on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't started sending me their propaganda yet --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > Cheers > > > -- > = > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > = > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > = > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > = > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > confidential > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > of > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Fax to: > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > days". > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > if > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > consultants > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > way too young for me. :) > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel, > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > the > > luxury > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > and > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > >organization > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > luxury > > beyond belief. > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > a new content management system project > > a new ecommerce project > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > the existing asset management application > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > DBAs > > around .. > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > ask > > > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > > free > > > up my > &g
Re: Rant-Rant
AARP has already stopped sending me propaganda. I think I am the oldest on the list. RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:33 AM > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > > the existing asset management application > > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > > DBAs > > > around .. > > > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > >
RE: Rant-Rant
OH, to be young again and know what I know now. AARP has some nice offers when you travel. Mentioning the youth in management, At my last job (pre golden handshake) I loved letting my manager know that "I had more time in the company then they had on the face of the earth." . It helped when discussions and decisions had to be made by the group. The wisdom of the silver hair helped. Ron ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/23/02 09:33AM >>> so sweet. so deluded. I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found but close on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't started sending me their propaganda yet --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > Cheers > > > -- > = > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > = > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > = > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > = > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > confidential > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > of > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Fax to: > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > days". > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > if > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > consultants > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > way too young for me. :) > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel, > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > the > > luxury > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > and > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > >organization > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > luxury > > beyond belief. > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > a new content management system project > > a new ecommerce project > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > the existing asset management application > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > DBAs > > around .. > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > as
Re: Rant-Rant
What's your mailing address? I can make the arrangements for you. Ken Janusz,CPIM - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:33 AM > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > > the existing asset management application > > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > > DBAs > > > around .. > > > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > > well... which is REALL
RE: Rant-Rant
so sweet. so deluded. I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found but close on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't started sending me their propaganda yet --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > Cheers > > > -- > = > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > = > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > = > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > = > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > confidential > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > of > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Fax to: > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > days". > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > if > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > consultants > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > way too young for me. :) > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel, > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > the > > luxury > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > and > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > >organization > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > luxury > > beyond belief. > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > a new content management system project > > a new ecommerce project > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > the existing asset management application > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > DBAs > > around .. > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > ask > > > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > > free > > > up my > > > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > > > society > > > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a > > bunch > > > of > > > great people in the process." >
RE: Rant-Rant
I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-)
Cheers
--
=
Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com
APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461
Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238
Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048
=
A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.
- Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist)
=
Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision"
=
This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is confidential
information. If you have received this transmission in error, please
delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the
opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group of
companies unless expressly stated otherwise.
Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22-07-2002 07:08 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Fax to:
Subject:RE: Rant-Rant
Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one
senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant.
I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour
days".
Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that if
there is too much work for one person, we will either hire consultants
or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's
way too young for me. :)
--- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rachel,
>
> you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have the
> luxury
> (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff.
>
> Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person
> and
> work-em till they drop is the current motto.
>
> Tom Mercadante
> Oracle Certified Professional
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical
> >organization
> >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely
> have
>
>
>
> excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out
> when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury
> beyond belief.
>
> As I type this I am the DBA for:
>
> a new data mart/data warehouse project
> a new content management system project
> a new ecommerce project
> the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project
> the existing asset management application
> the existing "community" site (bulletin boards)
>
> and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other
> DBAs
> around ..
>
> oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as
> well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling
> experience, other than "common sense"
>
>
> --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > OMG! A Socialist in the group!
> >
> > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask
>
> > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our
> > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and
> free
> > up my
> > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire
> > society
> > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a
> bunch
> > of
> > great people in the process."
> >
> > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical
> > organization
> > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely
> > have the
> > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do
> > cross the
> > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and
> > data
> > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between
> > here for
> > talented people.
> >
> > Tom Mercadante
> > Oracle Certified Professional
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I
> > prepare to
> > move my universe of databases
RE: Rant-Rant
hey, I'm an infj -- according to the out placement company, I'd make a good nun (Robert, did you see my test results?) --- "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing > Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour days". Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that if there is too much work for one person, we will either hire consultants or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's way too young for me. :) --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rachel, > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have the > luxury > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > and > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > >organization > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > have > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury > beyond belief. > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > a new content management system project > a new ecommerce project > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > the existing asset management application > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > DBAs > around .. > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > experience, other than "common sense" > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > free > > up my > > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > > society > > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a > bunch > > of > > great people in the process." > > > > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > organization > > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > have the > > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do > > cross the > > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and > > data > > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between > > here for > > talented people. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I > > prepare to > > move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have > a > > rant > > of my own. > > > > It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be > or > > > > should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. > > I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little > > convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional > job > > > > classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day > > management > > functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be > someone > > who > > was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a > > precision > > milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, > I > > see > > no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent > > admin DBA. > > Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a > > Master > > Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. > > > > I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing > organization > > does > > not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have > on > > staff > > or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, > > the > > Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which > tasks > > should > > be kicked up or out to the next level. > > > > So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of > the > > OCP > > and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified > > standard) > > could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the > > best use > > out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the > > skill set > > appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into > a > > > > Technical DBA position. > > > > I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA > track > > that > > doe
RE: Rant-Rant
Title: RE: Rant-Rant I once was contracted to fix an Access database that was created by the Sociology department of a major university. The forms and reports all looked very, very nice. Unfortunately the database didn't "work just right"... Jerry Whittle ACIFICS DBA NCI Information Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 618-622-4145 -Original Message- From: Joe LaCascio [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] How about an ENTJ as a DBA and System Admin... I'm loads of fun with a bunch of touchy feely type SP's here at the college I work for ;-) Joe On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Miller, Jay wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the > population fits this profile.
RE: Rant-Rant
How about an ENTJ as a DBA and System Admin... I'm loads of fun with a bunch of touchy feely type SP's here at the college I work for ;-) Joe On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Miller, Jay wrote: > FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each > sub-division). > > Jay Miller > infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > That is why I use the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the > population fits this profile. > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Miller, Jay > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe LaCascio INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
FYI: SJs make up about 40% of the population (app. 10% for each sub-division). Jay Miller infp (yeah, I know, what's an infp doing in a technical job... :) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L That is why I use the machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the population fits this profile. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Miller, Jay INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
Rachel, you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have the luxury (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person and work-em till they drop is the current motto. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical >organization >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely have excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury beyond belief. As I type this I am the DBA for: a new data mart/data warehouse project a new content management system project a new ecommerce project the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project the existing asset management application the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other DBAs around .. oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling experience, other than "common sense" --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process." > > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > organization > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > have the > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do > cross the > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and > data > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between > here for > talented people. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I > prepare to > move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a > rant > of my own. > > It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or > > should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. > I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little > convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job > > classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day > management > functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone > who > was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a > precision > milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I > see > no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent > admin DBA. > Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a > Master > Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. > > I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization > does > not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on > staff > or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, > the > Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks > should > be kicked up or out to the next level. > > So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the > OCP > and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified > standard) > could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the > best use > out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the > skill set > appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a > > Technical DBA position. > > I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track > that > does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use > the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > > I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person > software co
RE: Rant-Rant
Here's the way I see it would develop: Day one - lets' hire 2 Admin Dba's & 1 Tech Dba - cost = $20+$20+$40 = $80/hour One year later - stock price drops - sales are slow - damager says "save money" - fire one Admin Dba, 2nd admin dba gets all the duties or is let go. new cost = $20+$40=$60 Damager also decides that the Tech Dba should be responsible for more SA activities - fires the lone SA person. saves another salary. Another year later - again - stock price drops - sales are slow - damager fires remaining Admin Dba. Tech DBA reads the writing on the wall - either he/she will be working 80 hour weeks, or leaves the company - decides to quit. where is the company now? I can easily see the above happening. There are *many* people on this list that this has happened to. Except, they stayed at their company because there are not many positions available and they are stguck working with cell phones/pagers/beepers etc 24 hours a day. todays market is driven by the stock price - not by the utopia you described. have fun! :) Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At 10:38 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, Mercadante, Thomas F wrote: >OMG! A Socialist in the group! The irony is it sounds idealistic but it is hard nosed capitalism. From each according to his/her ability To each according to his/her value. The most successful organization will develop paradigms to effectively employ displaced mill workers etc. in IT. You fill in the numbers for your organization: Admin DBA Pay Range $15/hr-$28/hr Technical DBA pay range $20/hr-$60/hr Now how many can you afford and what is the right mix? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
>The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical >organization >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely have excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a luxury beyond belief. As I type this I am the DBA for: a new data mart/data warehouse project a new content management system project a new ecommerce project the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project the existing asset management application the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other DBAs around .. oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling experience, other than "common sense" --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process." > > The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > organization > will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > have the > cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do > cross the > boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and > data > access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between > here for > talented people. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I have been reading this list for the past several months as I > prepare to > move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a > rant > of my own. > > It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or > > should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. > I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little > convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job > > classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day > management > functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone > who > was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a > precision > milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I > see > no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent > admin DBA. > Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a > Master > Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. > > I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization > does > not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on > staff > or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, > the > Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks > should > be kicked up or out to the next level. > > So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the > OCP > and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified > standard) > could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the > best use > out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the > skill set > appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a > > Technical DBA position. > > I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track > that > does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use > the > machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending > 25 > years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs > type > indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of > the > population fits this profile. > > I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free > up my > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > society > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch > of > great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person > software company). > > Re: Hotbackups. > In the last three months I have adapted the scripts from the Kevin > Loney > book for 4 separate databases. > I have inspected them very carefully to make sure all of the files > are the > there. > I think that I understand the what, how and why of hot backups. > And I still had to go look to see that it was an alter tablespace > rather > than an alter database command to b
RE: Rant-Rant
At 10:38 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, Mercadante, Thomas F wrote: >OMG! A Socialist in the group! The irony is it sounds idealistic but it is hard nosed capitalism. From each according to his/her ability To each according to his/her value. The most successful organization will develop paradigms to effectively employ displaced mill workers etc. in IT. You fill in the numbers for your organization: Admin DBA Pay Range $15/hr-$28/hr Technical DBA pay range $20/hr-$60/hr Now how many can you afford and what is the right mix? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Rant-Rant
OMG! A Socialist in the group! "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free up my time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire society better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch of great people in the process." The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical organization will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely have the cash for multiple people. So a DBA ends up getting called upon do cross the boundary between very technical stuff as part of the SA group and data access/design with the applications group. Lots of room in between here for talented people. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have been reading this list for the past several months as I prepare to move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a rant of my own. It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day management functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone who was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a precision milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I see no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent admin DBA. Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a Master Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization does not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on staff or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, the Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks should be kicked up or out to the next level. So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the OCP and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified standard) could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the best use out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the skill set appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a Technical DBA position. I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track that does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use the machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the population fits this profile. I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free up my time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire society better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch of great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person software company). Re: Hotbackups. In the last three months I have adapted the scripts from the Kevin Loney book for 4 separate databases. I have inspected them very carefully to make sure all of the files are the there. I think that I understand the what, how and why of hot backups. And I still had to go look to see that it was an alter tablespace rather than an alter database command to backup the tablespace. re Politics: Given the rather idealistic tone of this missive, I guess I should add that I am down the middle Libertarian who tends to vote Republican because I'm most concerned about taxes. At 06:58 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Ok, I need to vent a little. > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with >about 2-3 years experience. > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such >luck! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMO
Re: Rant-Rant
I have been reading this list for the past several months as I prepare to move my universe of databases from 7.3 to 9 (probably 9) and I have a rant of my own. It seems that the implicit expectation is that every DBA should be or should aspire to be a Master Technical DBA. I have a slightly different take on the situation. It is a little convoluted but I believe that the DBA world needs some additional job classifications. In a decent sized organization, the day to day management functions should be accomplished by an Admin DBA who might be someone who was perfectly happy spending his/her working career operating a precision milling machine at Boeing. Since the machinist jobs are going away, I see no reason why a competent machinist could not become a competent admin DBA. Such a person is not suited by aptitude or disposition to become a Master Technical DBA, but would do a great job at the admin level. I'll extend the analogy a little more: the manufacturing organization does not expect the machinist to program the machine. They either have on staff or bring in a numerical control programming specialist. Similarly, the Admin DBA should know which tasks he/she can perform and which tasks should be kicked up or out to the next level. So maybe some of the energy spent on this list about relevance of the OCP and discussing qualifications of DBAs (against an unspecified standard) could be spent defining organizational strategies for getting the best use out of human capital represented by "Admin DBAs" and pricing the skill set appropriately. The worst possible thing is to get an Admin DBA into a Technical DBA position. I think the key breakthrough is the notion that there is a DBA track that does not inevitably lead to Master Technical DBA. That is why I use the machinist analogy: somebody who is satisfied with a career spending 25 years doing essentially the same thing. If you are into Myers-Briggs type indicator, I think the personality dimension is SJ and roughly 25% of the population fits this profile. I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we ask ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and free up my time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire society better transition to the information era and not marginalize a bunch of great people in the process. (Sez the man operating a three person software company). Re: Hotbackups. In the last three months I have adapted the scripts from the Kevin Loney book for 4 separate databases. I have inspected them very carefully to make sure all of the files are the there. I think that I understand the what, how and why of hot backups. And I still had to go look to see that it was an alter tablespace rather than an alter database command to backup the tablespace. re Politics: Given the rather idealistic tone of this missive, I guess I should add that I am down the middle Libertarian who tends to vote Republican because I'm most concerned about taxes. At 06:58 AM 7/22/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Ok, I need to vent a little. > >Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over >the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with >about 2-3 years experience. > >I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I >think that I ask particularly tough questions. The >questions that I ask potential candidates are soley >based on what is on the resume. So I figure if >someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their >resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly >intelligent conversation about these topics. No such >luck! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Monical INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
