RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Hi Ken, My guess is that you need to set up sys.dba_all_tables with a public synonym. HTH Van -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 11:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 8.1.7 on W2000 select owner, table_name, tablespace_name from dba_all_tables; When I log into sqlplus as SYS is runs. When I log into sqlplus as SYSTEM I get the error table or view does not exit. What is happening here and how do I fix it? Thanks, Ken -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ken Janusz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Van M. Etheridge INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: SYS vs SYSTEM
Van M. Etheridge wrote: Hi Ken, My guess is that you need to set up sys.dba_all_tables with a public synonym. HTH Van -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 11:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 8.1.7 on W2000 select owner, table_name, tablespace_name from dba_all_tables; When I log into sqlplus as SYS is runs. When I log into sqlplus as SYSTEM I get the error table or view does not exit. What is happening here and how do I fix it? Thanks, Ken -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ken Janusz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] More precisely, log in as SYSTEM and execute @$ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin/catdbsyn It creates private, not public, synonyms. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Corporation Voice: +44 (0) 7050-696-269 Fax:+44 (0) 7050-696-449 Performance Tools Free Scripts -- http://www.oriole.com, designed by Oracle DBAs for Oracle DBAs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
connect internal has been removed from 9i you will have to login as sys/password as sysdba thro sqlplus even the svrmgrl has been removed. this I think oracle has been saying from 8i version itself that they will be removing connect as internal in the future version From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: SYS vs SYSTEM Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:27:12 -0800 How about oradim and server manager? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 5:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Trying to connect using INTERNAL via SQLPLUS. Platform is Solaris 2.6, Oracle 9i. Logged in as oracle user. Oracle user is a member of the dba group and CONNECT INTERNAL works fine in 8i. See following error message for 9i: ORA-09275: CONNECT INTERNAL is not a valid DBA connection -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Is it the same old rumor or it could be confirmed 100%? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well you will have alot of scripts to change, internal is gone in 9i. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Greg, I was told by Oracle Support when I started using Rman under version 8.0 to use SYS or INTERNAL, as it is better. Between you and me, better is quite subjective. But, I wrote scripts that connect as INTERNAL, and it has been working fine ever since, so I did not re-visit it. Do you use a DBA account? Is there a better way? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: eric harrington INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
Re: SYS vs SYSTEM
Guy: Maybe I'm too conservative, but I don't even use SYSTEM unless necessary and I hardly ever use SYS. I will usually create my own account and grant it DBA privileges. IMHO, your reasoning here is sound. SYS, as you point out, can do absolutely anything. Therefore, my reasoning is don't use any more privileges than you have to. That way, you can't get into trouble later. I also feel that this provides a more appropriate security model: everyone has their own account, including DBAs, so privileges can be granted/revoked per user. Also, it saves on having to change the SYS and SYSTEM passwords every time someone leaves the shop or changes roles. For me, it would be like always logging in to a UNIX box as root. More privileges than necessary usually leads to more problems than necessary. Does that make sense? -- Jon Walthour, OCDBA Oracle DBA Computer Horizons Cincinnati, Ohio From: Guy Hammond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:55:43 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: SYS vs SYSTEM Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jon Walthour INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Thats the same as here. We use SYSTEM for all our automated scripts. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 4:56 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
One thing I noticed is SYSTEM can do about 95% of the things SYS can do. There isn't a whole lot you cannot do with SYSTEM. But there is some. Using another account is sound advice as your less likely to own important objects, and less likely to drop them as you would never prepend SYS. in a drop statement unless you absolutely wanted to. I have seen dictionary objects dropped many times from someone running DROPOBJ.SQL or something similar under SYS/SYSTEM. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Guy: Maybe I'm too conservative, but I don't even use SYSTEM unless necessary and I hardly ever use SYS. I will usually create my own account and grant it DBA privileges. IMHO, your reasoning here is sound. SYS, as you point out, can do absolutely anything. Therefore, my reasoning is don't use any more privileges than you have to. That way, you can't get into trouble later. I also feel that this provides a more appropriate security model: everyone has their own account, including DBAs, so privileges can be granted/revoked per user. Also, it saves on having to change the SYS and SYSTEM passwords every time someone leaves the shop or changes roles. For me, it would be like always logging in to a UNIX box as root. More privileges than necessary usually leads to more problems than necessary. Does that make sense? -- Jon Walthour, OCDBA Oracle DBA Computer Horizons Cincinnati, Ohio From: Guy Hammond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:55:43 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: SYS vs SYSTEM Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jon Walthour INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: SYS vs SYSTEM
it makes absolute sense. And if the developers refuse to understand it, liken it to running things as root on a Unix box. Too easy to inadvertently do major damage. to make their lives easier (and therefore your own), why not create synonyms for the SYS.x calls you want them to make so that the scripts will run whether or not they are logged in as SYS. I've found that when you don't ask someone to change existing code to conform to new standards, it's easier to get them to use the new procedure. From: Guy Hammond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: SYS vs SYSTEM Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:55:43 -0800 Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: SYS vs SYSTEM
What account I use depends on what I am doing. For example to set up roles, grant rights, and create users I use the SYSTEM account. For anything else, I use my DBA account. The reason is that if I ever leave and my account is removed, all those rights that I granted and all the roles that I created would go away. The SYSTEM account will never be removed. We learned this the hard way because we had a DBA leave and we removed his user id. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 05:55AM Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: William Beilstein INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Bill, Roles created by a user never go away. They are not attached to the user. They belong to the system (I just tried this in 816 - created a user, granted CREATE_ROLE to that user, connected as that user, created a role and dropped the user - the role still exists). Likewise grants to database objects. Once they are established, they exist on their own. Dropping the user who granted the access has nothing to do with the grant itself (unless it is to objects that existed in the dropped users account, because these objects go away). I never user the SYS or SYSTEM accounts to create accounts, roles or perform grants. I use SYS (or internal) for db startup and shutdown and Rman backups only. I create a DBA account (which owns the schema for the database) to do all of the create account, roles and object grants. I actually don't even know the System account password - if I really need to get into it, I alter the password to a new string and connect to it. I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong. Every DBA has their own way of doing things, and your way is perfectly fine (not that you are asking for approval! :) ). At least you are not using the SYS or SYSTEM account for schema objects. I saw this happen once! Hope this helps! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:31 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L What account I use depends on what I am doing. For example to set up roles, grant rights, and create users I use the SYSTEM account. For anything else, I use my DBA account. The reason is that if I ever leave and my account is removed, all those rights that I granted and all the roles that I created would go away. The SYSTEM account will never be removed. We learned this the hard way because we had a DBA leave and we removed his user id. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 05:55AM Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: William Beilstein INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
That might be true in Oracle 8, but was a problem in Oracle 7. Just being paranoid. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 11:11AM Bill, Roles created by a user never go away. They are not attached to the user. They belong to the system (I just tried this in 816 - created a user, granted CREATE_ROLE to that user, connected as that user, created a role and dropped the user - the role still exists). Likewise grants to database objects. Once they are established, they exist on their own. Dropping the user who granted the access has nothing to do with the grant itself (unless it is to objects that existed in the dropped users account, because these objects go away). I never user the SYS or SYSTEM accounts to create accounts, roles or perform grants. I use SYS (or internal) for db startup and shutdown and Rman backups only. I create a DBA account (which owns the schema for the database) to do all of the create account, roles and object grants. I actually don't even know the System account password - if I really need to get into it, I alter the password to a new string and connect to it. I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong. Every DBA has their own way of doing things, and your way is perfectly fine (not that you are asking for approval! :) ). At least you are not using the SYS or SYSTEM account for schema objects. I saw this happen once! Hope this helps! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:31 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L What account I use depends on what I am doing. For example to set up roles, grant rights, and create users I use the SYSTEM account. For anything else, I use my DBA account. The reason is that if I ever leave and my account is removed, all those rights that I granted and all the roles that I created would go away. The SYSTEM account will never be removed. We learned this the hard way because we had a DBA leave and we removed his user id. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 05:55AM Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: William Beilstein INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: William Beilstein INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE
Re: SYS vs SYSTEM
Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Well, you could always set synonyms so they wouldn't notice. I typically make SYS off limits by making the password inaccessible. IDENTIFIED BY VALUES 'no way'; Henry -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 5:56 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, I generally use SYSTEM rather than SYS for DBA work, and would like to discourage the use of SYS as much as possible. Partly because it bypasses auditing and the profile, and also because I tend to regard SYS as being for Oracle-specific things (like running scripts from $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin) and SYSTEM for doing the day-to-day tasks (like administering storage, performance monitoring etc). Does this reasoning make sense? And, what would be a good way to explain it to developers who've gotten used to writing app installation scripts than run as SYS (for example, they might refer to AQ$_AGENT rather than SYS.AQ$_AGENT)? Thanks, g. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Well you will have alot of scripts to change, internal is gone in 9i. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Greg, I was told by Oracle Support when I started using Rman under version 8.0 to use SYS or INTERNAL, as it is better. Between you and me, better is quite subjective. But, I wrote scripts that connect as INTERNAL, and it has been working fine ever since, so I did not re-visit it. Do you use a DBA account? Is there a better way? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Ah, you take me for a fool! It's in one file per instance! And the Rman job is one file per machine - shared by all instances! thank you, thank you, hat tipping, hat tipping. crowd roaring. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well you will have alot of scripts to change, internal is gone in 9i. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Greg, I was told by Oracle Support when I started using Rman under version 8.0 to use SYS or INTERNAL, as it is better. Between you and me, better is quite subjective. But, I wrote scripts that connect as INTERNAL, and it has been working fine ever since, so I did not re-visit it. Do you use a DBA account? Is there a better way? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Is it the same old rumor or it could be confirmed 100%? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well you will have alot of scripts to change, internal is gone in 9i. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Greg, I was told by Oracle Support when I started using Rman under version 8.0 to use SYS or INTERNAL, as it is better. Between you and me, better is quite subjective. But, I wrote scripts that connect as INTERNAL, and it has been working fine ever since, so I did not re-visit it. Do you use a DBA account? Is there a better way? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: SYS vs SYSTEM
It's gone. And for SYS logins, you must login as SYS as sysdba or SYS as sysoper. The threat of internal going away has been around for a long time. It looks like they finally acted upon it. Defry - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:55 PM Is it the same old rumor or it could be confirmed 100%? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well you will have alot of scripts to change, internal is gone in 9i. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Greg, I was told by Oracle Support when I started using Rman under version 8.0 to use SYS or INTERNAL, as it is better. Between you and me, better is quite subjective. But, I wrote scripts that connect as INTERNAL, and it has been working fine ever since, so I did not re-visit it. Do you use a DBA account? Is there a better way? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mustafa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Trying to connect using INTERNAL via SQLPLUS. Platform is Solaris 2.6, Oracle 9i. Logged in as oracle user. Oracle user is a member of the dba group and CONNECT INTERNAL works fine in 8i. See following error message for 9i: ORA-09275: CONNECT INTERNAL is not a valid DBA connection -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Is it the same old rumor or it could be confirmed 100%? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well you will have alot of scripts to change, internal is gone in 9i. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Greg, I was told by Oracle Support when I started using Rman under version 8.0 to use SYS or INTERNAL, as it is better. Between you and me, better is quite subjective. But, I wrote scripts that connect as INTERNAL, and it has been working fine ever since, so I did not re-visit it. Do you use a DBA account? Is there a better way? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Why do you use SYS exclusively for startup and shutdown, since your DBA priv account could also accomplish this? - Greg -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: eric harrington INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SYS vs SYSTEM
Roles created by a user never go away. They are not attached to the user. Just keep in mind that the role is automatically assigned to the user who created it. And this can land you in a *bit* of a problem when you import that user in another database and bump into MAX_ENABLED_ROLES (which defaults to 20) John Kanagaraj -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: John Kanagaraj INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
