subject:"RE\: SharePlex"

Title: Message



Hi!

Btw, you can physically replicate 50% of your 
tables with regular standby mechanisms as well. You just take the files 
belonging to non-needed tablespaces offline and standby recovers only the 
required part. You just have to arrange your tables to right tablespaces and 
spend your money elsewhere.

Physical standby and shareplex can operate on 
archivelogs, thus they can do their jobs without any additional burden to source 
database CPU, since you generate and archive your logs anyway. You can do 
archivelog's processing on target or some staging server.

Tanel.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gorbounov,Vadim 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:49 
  PM
  Subject: SharePlex info
  
  Hi All, 
  
  
  I'm trying to find some technical 
  details about SharePlex, that is:
  
  - How much network bandwidth I'd 
  expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec redo. 
  DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some internal 
  (hopefully compressed)format
  - How much CPU on the source DB 
  server side would it cost - just a ball park - very little- little - or 
  a lot 
  - Of two options, using 9.2 
  physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% (enough 
  from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which onesounds 
  preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the source database. 
  
  
  Any opinion or pointer to any 
  benchmark is highly appreciated. 
  
  Thanks a 
  lot
  Vadim

RE: SharePlex info

2003-08-21 Thread Gorbounov,Vadim




Thank 
you, Raju. Very helpful

  -Original Message-From: raju pa 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:59 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
  SharePlex info
  1)You would need lessnetwork bandwidth with shareplex than 
  you would for transporting archive logs. about 1/3 rd ofwhat you would 
  need for physical stdby.
  
  2) CPU burden would be 'little' I guess.
  
  3) Shareplex replication allows you to have the table available for read 
  on the target. (even update). If you need this or if it is a great advantage 
  then you can consider shareplex. Else physical stdby would be better. 
  
  You have to basically consider the huge cost of shareplex and maintenance 
  it needs.CPU usageof source would be a lesser consideration i 
  think. 
  
  somedaysback there was a thread on this started by oneNelson 
  ( I think)so you can maybe look at the archives and thatshould 
  help you make a decision.
  
  "Gorbounov,Vadim" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Hi All, 


I'm trying to find some 
technical details about SharePlex, that is:

- How much network bandwidth 
I'd expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec redo. 
DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some internal 
(hopefully compressed)format
- How much CPU on the source DB 
server side would it cost - just a ball park - very little- little - 
or a lot 
- Of two options, using 9.2 
physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% (enough 
from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which onesounds 
preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the source database. 


Any opinion or pointer to any 
benchmark is highly appreciated. 

Thanks a 
lot
Vadim
  
  
  Do you Yahoo!?SBC 
  Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

RE: SharePlex info

2003-08-21 Thread Aponte, Tony

Title: Message



Your 
bandwidth requirements will be the rate of changes to the actual data. The 
traffic consists of the actual data and control information needed to reassemble 
the transaction on the target. The source database's other redo payload 
(i.e., index operations, rollback segment maintenance, etc.) is not used by 
Shareplex. 

In our 
environment of dual Sun 6800's, 10 CPU's each, we observe less that 1% CPU 
consumption on the source and target sides combined. It varies according 
to the DML load on the source but not by much. We've never had a problem 
with it consuming a noticeable amount.

I have 
a question on the comparison between a physical standby and Shareplex 
replication.Isn't9i's logical standby featurebetter 
suited for the comparison to Shareplex? I'm assuming that you are 
considering offloading some processing to another host since you are looking to 
replicate about 50% of the tables in the source database.

HTH
Tony 
Aponte



  -Original Message-From: Gorbounov,Vadim 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 
  2003 1:49 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: SharePlex info
  Hi All, 
  
  
  I'm trying to find some technical 
  details about SharePlex, that is:
  
  - How much network bandwidth I'd 
  expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec redo. 
  DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some internal 
  (hopefully compressed)format
  - How much CPU on the source DB 
  server side would it cost - just a ball park - very little- little - or 
  a lot 
  - Of two options, using 9.2 
  physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% (enough 
  from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which onesounds 
  preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the source database. 
  
  
  Any opinion or pointer to any 
  benchmark is highly appreciated. 
  
  Thanks a 
  lot
  Vadim

RE: SharePlex info

2003-08-21 Thread Gorbounov,Vadim

Title: Message



Tanel, 

That's 
nice trick, thanks a lot.
In 
this casewhole redo steam must be passed over the network anyway. 5 MB/sec 
over WAN. So we'are doing research if we could same some 
bandwidth.

Vadim
-Original Message-From: Tanel Poder 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:14 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
SharePlex info

  Hi!
  
  Btw, you can physically replicate 50% of your 
  tables with regular standby mechanisms as well. You just take the files 
  belonging to non-needed tablespaces offline and standby recovers only the 
  required part. You just have to arrange your tables to right tablespaces and 
  spend your money elsewhere.
  
  Physical standby and shareplex can operate on 
  archivelogs, thus they can do their jobs without any additional burden to 
  source database CPU, since you generate and archive your logs anyway. You can 
  do archivelog's processing on target or some staging server.
  
  Tanel.
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Gorbounov,Vadim 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:49 
PM
Subject: SharePlex info

Hi All, 


I'm trying to find some 
technical details about SharePlex, that is:

- How much network bandwidth 
I'd expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec redo. 
DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some internal 
(hopefully compressed)format
- How much CPU on the source DB 
server side would it cost - just a ball park - very little- little - 
or a lot 
- Of two options, using 9.2 
physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% (enough 
from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which onesounds 
preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the source database. 


Any opinion or pointer to any 
benchmark is highly appreciated. 

Thanks a 
lot
Vadim

Re: SharePlex info




But you would be wanting to transfer *full* 
logfiles away from your production servers anyway at least if your data is 
worth something...

Tanel.



  
1)You would need lessnetwork bandwidth with shareplex than 
you would for transporting archive logs. about 1/3 rd ofwhat you would 
need for physical stdby.

Re: SharePlex info

Title: Message



Ok, in this case Shareplex might be better, if it 
is able to extract only relevant data from logs.
Actually, you could dosomewhat similar 
yourself using logminer as well. You just extract all needed DML statements on 
either production or staging server, compress the output (because file with sql 
statements is going to be big but will compress well) and send over network, or 
go with Oracle Streams rightaway.There's going to be an issue with 
some special datatypes though IIRC.

I don't know the pricing of shareplex, maybe it'd 
be easier going with it..

Tanel.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gorbounov,Vadim 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 12:54 
  AM
  Subject: RE: SharePlex info
  
  Tanel, 
  That's nice trick, thanks a lot.
  In 
  this casewhole redo steam must be passed over the network anyway. 5 
  MB/sec over WAN. So we'are doing research if we could same some 
  bandwidth.
  
  Vadim
  -Original Message-From: Tanel Poder 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 
  5:14 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  Re: SharePlex info
  
Hi!

Btw, you can physically replicate 50% of your 
tables with regular standby mechanisms as well. You just take the files 
belonging to non-needed tablespaces offline and standby recovers only the 
required part. You just have to arrange your tables to right tablespaces and 
spend your money elsewhere.

Physical standby and shareplex can operate on 
archivelogs, thus they can do their jobs without any additional burden to 
source database CPU, since you generate and archive your logs anyway. You 
can do archivelog's processing on target or some staging 
server.

Tanel.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Gorbounov,Vadim 
  To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:49 
  PM
  Subject: SharePlex info
  
  Hi All, 
  
  
  I'm trying to find some 
  technical details about SharePlex, that is:
  
  - How much network bandwidth 
  I'd expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec redo. 
  DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some 
  internal (hopefully compressed)format
  - How much CPU on the source 
  DB server side would it cost - just a ball park - very little- 
  little - or a lot 
  - Of two options, using 9.2 
  physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% 
  (enough from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which 
  onesounds preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the 
  source database. 
  
  Any opinion or pointer to any 
  benchmark is highly appreciated. 
  
  Thanks a 
  lot
  Vadim

RE: SharePlex info

2003-08-21 Thread A Joshi

Yes. A nice neat trick indeed. Has anyone tried this? 

About your redo generation : 5MB/sec - 18000 MB/hour == 18GB

IT is indeed huge. IS this peak or average? Good luck. "Gorbounov,Vadim" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Tanel, 
That's nice trick, thanks a lot.
In this casewhole redo steam must be passed over the network anyway. 5 MB/sec over WAN. So we'are doing research if we could same some bandwidth.

Vadim
-Original Message-From: Tanel Poder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:14 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: SharePlex info

Hi!

Btw, you can physically replicate 50% of your tables with regular standby mechanisms as well. You just take the files belonging to non-needed tablespaces offline and standby recovers only the required part. You just have to arrange your tables to right tablespaces and spend your money elsewhere.

Physical standby and shareplex can operate on archivelogs, thus they can do their jobs without any additional burden to source database CPU, since you generate and archive your logs anyway. You can do archivelog's processing on target or some staging server.

Tanel.


- Original Message - 
From: Gorbounov,Vadim 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: SharePlex info

Hi All, 

I'm trying to find some technical details about SharePlex, that is:

- How much network bandwidth I'd expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec redo. DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some internal (hopefully compressed)format
- How much CPU on the source DB server side would it cost - just a ball park - very little- little - or a lot 
- Of two options, using 9.2 physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% (enough from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which onesounds preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the source database. 

Any opinion or pointer to any benchmark is highly appreciated. 

Thanks a lot
Vadim
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

Re: SharePlex info




It's documented in 8.1.7 docs:

http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76995/standbym.htm#27264

In 9.2 docs I didn't find it with brief 
search...

Tanel.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  A Joshi 
  
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:14 
  AM
  Subject: RE: SharePlex info
  
  Yes. A nice neat trick indeed. Has anyone tried this? 
  
  About your redo generation : 5MB/sec - 18000 MB/hour == 
  18GB
  
  IT is indeed huge. IS this peak or average? Good luck. 
  "Gorbounov,Vadim" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Tanel, 
That's nice trick, thanks a lot.
In 
this casewhole redo steam must be passed over the network anyway. 5 
MB/sec over WAN. So we'are doing research if we could same some 
bandwidth.

Vadim
-Original Message-From: Tanel Poder 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 
5:14 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: SharePlex info

  Hi!
  
  Btw, you can physically replicate 50% of your 
  tables with regular standby mechanisms as well. You just take the files 
  belonging to non-needed tablespaces offline and standby recovers only the 
  required part. You just have to arrange your tables to right tablespaces 
  and spend your money elsewhere.
  
  Physical standby and shareplex can operate on 
  archivelogs, thus they can do their jobs without any additional burden to 
  source database CPU, since you generate and archive your logs anyway. You 
  can do archivelog's processing on target or some staging 
  server.
  
  Tanel.
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Gorbounov,Vadim 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 
8:49 PM
Subject: SharePlex info

Hi All, 


I'm trying to find some 
technical details about SharePlex, that is:

- How much network 
bandwidth I'd expect to replicate from database, generating 1-5 MB/sec 
redo. DoesSharePlex send SQL text over the network or data in some 
internal (hopefully compressed)format
- How much CPU on the 
source DB server side would it cost - just a ball park - very 
little- little - or a lot 
- Of two options, using 9.2 
physical async standby db and clone whole database vs replicate 50% 
(enough from business requirements) of tables using SharePlex, which 
onesounds preferrable keeping in mind minimizing CPU burden on the 
source database. 

Any opinion or pointer to 
any benchmark is highly appreciated. 

Thanks a 
lot
Vadim
  
  
  Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! 
  SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design 
software

Re: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Mladen Gogala

On 2003.08.09 17:14, Indy Johal wrote:
As Nelson is not in Oracle 9i, And so the option availbale with him are
Who or what is Nelson? There was a guy named Horatio Nelson who died at
Trafalgar after tasting too much of French food and was widely followed
by the paparazzi of the time because of his affair with Lady Hamilton but
I doubt that is the same guy. 
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
--
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Author: Mladen Gogala
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: SharePlex Summary

Actually, I suspect I will be able to do the testing myself before I get more back 
from those guys.  

Matthew Zito made a good point in another reply to this message saying that 32 bit 
addresses had to be translated to 64 bit addresses because of architecture 
requirements so you would still have a one cycle instruction fetch (neglecting cache 
misses and wait states for access from slow main memory).

Building on that, perhaps address translation might be the problem.  32 bit addresses 
map you into 4GB of memeory.  Those 4GB segments would be mapped into the 64 bit CPU's 
larger address space.  I don't know PA RISC assembler or register sets but something 
like a TLB would be needed.  It would be odd if that accounted for a 20 - 25% overhead.

Similarly there would probably be some io space remapping as well.  Quien Sabe?  I 
will be able to run side by side instances on the test box to check it out.  Maybe 
some of the listers would be interested in the results.

Allan 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



 Frankly, that does not sound logical to me, but I would be extremely interested if 
there is any authenticity to the statement.

I would ask the individual who made the statement to provide the proof.   I
can't stop envisioning this on the next myth list.






   PST

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:




First thanks to every one who responded both on the list and to my private
email:

The consensus appeared to be:
1.  SharePlex is overly expensive for the functionality delivered and 2.  Oracle has 
caught up in 9i for much of the functionality 3.  Some features of Oracle like IOT's 
may present some problems.

We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that platform.  I have been told that the 
64bit code imposes a 20 - 25% performance penalty vs the 32 bit version of 8.1.7.  Can 
anyone address this from experience?

   Allan L. Nelson
   Oracle DBA
   M-I L.L.C.
   (832) 295-2238 office
   (832) 351-4180 fax
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]








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RE: SharePlex Summary

Title: Message

Yes we
are PA risc rather than Itanic. The analysis I heard was the 64 bits (8
bytes) take longer to get into the CPU itself as the buss had to transfer more
data, that 64 bit instructions can take longer for that reason.Without
testing who can know. No time yet to test.

Allan

-Original Message-From: Mladen Gogala
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:30
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
SharePlex Summary
No
penalty. HP-UX is 64-bit os running on a 64-bit chip. Why would 64 bits impose
any
penalty? Running 64 bits is what comes naturally. Running 64 bits means
that sizeof(void *) will return 8 instead of 4.
That, in turn, means that SGA can grow much bigger because you don't
have 4G limit and that your files can grow
extremely big. If anything, 64 bit is much faster, because it can
calculate with much bigger int's and doubles.
Hopefully, your box has PA 8600 init and not Itanic. If latter is the
case, I have no idea whatsoever about what you
might expect. On the other hand, who will ever need more then 640K
RAM?

--Mladen GogalaOracle DBA

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Nelson, AllanSent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:49
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
SharePlex Summary
First thanks to every one who responded both on
the list and to my private email:
The consensus appeared to be: 1. SharePlex is overly expensive for the
functionality delivered and 2.
Oracle has caught up in 9i for much of the functionality 3. Some features of Oracle like IOT's may present
some problems.
We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that
platform. I have been told that the 64bit code imposes a 20 - 25%
performance penalty vs the 32 bit version of 8.1.7. Can anyone address
this from experience?

Allan L.
NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238
office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed
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Re: SharePlex

TanelAs far as I know , bot Oracle streams and Dataguard are available with Oracle enterprise edition at no additional cost except the database licence cost. This is not like Oracle Partitioning where you have to pay extra licence costThanksIndy JohalManager, Database AdministrationPR Newswire[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.prnewswire.com(201) 946-5687 [W](201) 400-3960 [M]We tell your story to the world.Tanel Poder [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]08/09/2003 05:59 PM PSTPlease respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:  bcc:  Subject: Re: SharePlex I could access oraclestore today and didn't see neither DataGuard norStreams in database additions section (where RAC, Data Mining and othersare).Then did a product search on dataguard, data guard, standby - got nopositive results...But maybe the sales guys have other story... I've luckily managed not todeal with licensing issues for past few years now.Tanel.- Original Message -To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:34 AM On 2003.08.09 09:39, Tanel Poder wrote:  MessageHi!   Mladen, does DG really have additional fee when using EE? I tried tocheck  from oraclestore, but got - instead: Tanel, my @#$%! Adelphia Cable connection is down more or less throughoutthe day today, so I cannot check at the Oracle Store, but I'm reasonablycertain that both Data Guard and Oracle Streams are sold separately. As for this email, I'm using my local sendmail, which will deliver the messagewhenever the connection is restored. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services  -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net--Author: Tanel PoderINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services  -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).åy«±çê~'"jS"Ä,PÛiÿü0ÂÚ}ª§zÐ.¶+"wr&ZDLÝÈ!jZkì,Â*ÞrjÐ¢·#^·
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RE: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Nick Wagner

Title: Message



I know 
a little of their product... but I think you should be well aware of 
the limitations before attempting to implement it. Here are a couple of 
questions to ask the technical folks over there...

1)What happens when someone applies an Oracle Financials patch to 
the system. What is the procedure?
2) Do 
you have anyone else running Financials 11i thatyou could talk to as a 
reference?
3) Do 
they support IOT's? (Which Financials has a lot of)
4) How 
much downtime is normally associated with something like adding a new table or 
dropping one from replication? 

Nick

-Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:44 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
SharePlex
We are 
not running 9i but 8.1.7.4, sorry for not including that earlier. We 
are rolling out to our international offices and we basically have offices in 
every time zone. I'm looking at SharePlex for HA, reporting use, and 
potentially migrating from HP to Linux. They will be on Linux next 
month.

Allan

  
  -Original Message-From: Goulet, Dick 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:59 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  SharePlex
  Nelson,
  
   SharePlex does the same basic thing that Oracle does for 
  the logical standby, as a matter of fact if your running 9i why not use that 
  instead of Quests's pricey tool? I don't believe there is any additional 
  cost to using logical standby over the second server license that your going 
  to have to pay anyway.
  
  Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
  DBA 
  
-Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:14 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
SharePlex
Hello, 
Quest is trying to sell us a product named 
SharePlex. It sounds very attractive, but then sales people are 
supposed to be good at that. We are a mid sized company, about 2.2 
billion per year, running Financials 11.5.7. We are interested in this 
for HA and for reporting instance use. 
rant We use Cognos as our query tool and the owners of this product tells 
me that we can't tune the SQL it emits. It makes pretty poor choices, 
which is not surprising for a gooey, sticky tool designed for end 
users. It is sort of pretty and if you can drool you too can generate 
cross products. Anyway , I'd like to get them off the production 
box.
rant/ 
Does SharePlex allow you to stay close to the 
production instance in time? Does the store and forward work 
well? Do you love it? Hate it? Anything you'd like to say 
about this product I'd like to hear
Thanks in advance  

  Allan L. 
  NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238 
  office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
__This 
email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed 
and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, 
forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than 
the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any 
computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. 
[021216]

RE: SharePlex Summary

2003-08-14 Thread Mladen Gogala

Title: Message



No 
penalty. HP-UX is 64-bit os running on a 64-bit chip. Why would 64 bits impose 
any
penalty? Running 64 bits is what comes naturally. Running 64 bits means 
that sizeof(void *) will return 8 instead of 4.
That, 
in turn, means that SGA can grow much bigger because you don't have 4G limit and 
that your files can grow
extremely big. If anything, 64 bit is much faster, because it can 
calculate with much bigger int's and doubles.
Hopefully, your box has PA 8600 init and not Itanic. If latter is the 
case, I have no idea whatsoever about what you
might 
expect. On the other hand, who will ever need more then 640K 
RAM?


--Mladen GogalaOracle DBA 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Nelson, AllanSent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:49 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  SharePlex Summary
  First thanks to every one who responded both on the 
  list and to my private email: 
  The consensus appeared to be: 1. SharePlex is overly expensive for the functionality 
  delivered and 2. Oracle has caught up 
  in 9i for much of the functionality 3. Some features of Oracle like IOT's may present some 
  problems. 
  We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that 
  platform. I have been told that the 64bit code imposes a 20 - 25% 
  performance penalty vs the 32 bit version of 8.1.7. Can anyone address 
  this from experience?
  
Allan L. 
NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238 
office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  __This 
  email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and 
  may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or 
  distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is 
  prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the 
  sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may 
  have been monitored for policy compliance. 
[021216]


Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain 
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No 
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If 
you receive this message in error,please immediately delete it and all 
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the 
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, 
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended 
recipient.Wang Trading 
LLCand any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to 
monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, 
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state 
them to be the views of any such entity.

Re: SharePlex Summary

2003-08-14 Thread Tracy Rahmlow


 Frankly, that does not sound logical to me, but I would be extremely
interested if there is any authenticity to the statement.

I would ask the individual who made the statement to provide the proof.   I
can't stop envisioning this on the next myth list.






   PST

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:




First thanks to every one who responded both on the list and to my private
email:

The consensus appeared to be:
1.  SharePlex is overly expensive for the functionality delivered and
2.  Oracle has caught up in 9i for much of the functionality
3.  Some features of Oracle like IOT's may present some problems.

We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that platform.  I have been told that
the 64bit code imposes a 20 - 25% performance penalty vs the 32 bit version of
8.1.7.  Can anyone address this from experience?

   Allan L. Nelson
   Oracle DBA
   M-I L.L.C.
   (832) 295-2238 office
   (832) 351-4180 fax
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]








American Express made the following
 annotations on 08/12/2003 01:10:13 PM
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 This message and any attachments are solely for the intended recipient and may 
contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, 
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RE: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Goulet, Dick

Title: SharePlex



Nelson,

 SharePlex does the same basic thing that Oracle does for 
the logical standby, as a matter of fact if your running 9i why not use that 
instead of Quests's pricey tool? I don't believe there is any additional 
cost to using logical standby over the second server license that your going to 
have to pay anyway.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
DBA 

  -Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:14 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  SharePlex
  Hello, 
  Quest is trying to sell us a product named 
  SharePlex. It sounds very attractive, but then sales people are supposed 
  to be good at that. We are a mid sized company, about 2.2 billion per 
  year, running Financials 11.5.7. We are interested in this for HA and 
  for reporting instance use. 
  rant We 
  use Cognos as our query tool and the owners of this product tells me that we 
  can't tune the SQL it emits. It makes pretty poor choices, which is not 
  surprising for a gooey, sticky tool designed for end users. It is sort 
  of pretty and if you can drool you too can generate cross products. 
  Anyway , I'd like to get them off the production box.
  rant/ 
  Does SharePlex allow you to stay close to the 
  production instance in time? Does the store and forward work well? 
  Do you love it? Hate it? Anything you'd like to say about this 
  product I'd like to hear
  Thanks in advance  
  
Allan L. 
NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238 
office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  __This 
  email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and 
  may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or 
  distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is 
  prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the 
  sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may 
  have been monitored for policy compliance. 
[021216]

RE: SharePlex Summary

2003-08-14 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Allan
   As to your Shareplex comments, I'm in no position to support or refute
your conclusions. My admittedly brief experience with replication leads me
to the conclusion that there are no simple conclusions. If ever there was an
area where your mileage may vary, this is it. Replication is a simple
label that is stuck to a vast array of situations. I feel it important for
your organization to define what it wants to do, and then pick the
technology, rather than pick the best technology and then attempt to adapt
it to your needs. It is possible that there are situations where Shareplex
will work like no other, and other situations where basic Oracle features
achieve all the desired goals. In my readings, it seems like most of the
replication projects that either fail or cause a lot of problems are those
where the organization tries to flip the replication switch, rather than
treating it as a serious project that requires cooperation of many different
areas of the organization. But then as I said at first, I'm no expert.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Actually, I suspect I will be able to do the testing myself before I get
more back from those guys.  

Matthew Zito made a good point in another reply to this message saying that
32 bit addresses had to be translated to 64 bit addresses because of
architecture requirements so you would still have a one cycle instruction
fetch (neglecting cache misses and wait states for access from slow main
memory).

Building on that, perhaps address translation might be the problem.  32 bit
addresses map you into 4GB of memeory.  Those 4GB segments would be mapped
into the 64 bit CPU's larger address space.  I don't know PA RISC assembler
or register sets but something like a TLB would be needed.  It would be odd
if that accounted for a 20 - 25% overhead.

Similarly there would probably be some io space remapping as well.  Quien
Sabe?  I will be able to run side by side instances on the test box to check
it out.  Maybe some of the listers would be interested in the results.

Allan 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



 Frankly, that does not sound logical to me, but I would be extremely
interested if there is any authenticity to the statement.

I would ask the individual who made the statement to provide the proof.   I
can't stop envisioning this on the next myth list.






   PST

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:




First thanks to every one who responded both on the list and to my private
email:

The consensus appeared to be:
1.  SharePlex is overly expensive for the functionality delivered and 2. 
Oracle has caught up in 9i for much of the functionality 3.  Some features
of Oracle like IOT's may present some problems.

We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that platform.  I have been told
that the 64bit code imposes a 20 - 25% performance penalty vs the 32 bit
version of 8.1.7.  Can anyone address this from experience?

   Allan L. Nelson
   Oracle DBA
   M-I L.L.C.
   (832) 295-2238 office
   (832) 351-4180 fax
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]








American Express made the following
 annotations on 08/12/2003 01:10:13 PM

--

**

 This message and any attachments are solely for the intended recipient
and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, use, or distribution of the
information included in this message and any attachments is prohibited.  If
you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply
e-mail and immediately and permanently delete this message and any
attachments.  Thank you.


**



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__
This

Re: SharePlex

MladenWho Cares as which Nelson is been referred as long as the user requesting for support is getting the messagesIndy JohalManager, Database AdministrationPR Newswire[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.prnewswire.com(201) 946-5687 [W](201) 400-3960 [M]We tell your story to the world.Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]08/09/2003 05:34 PM PSTPlease respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:  bcc:  Subject: Re: SharePlex On 2003.08.09 17:14, Indy Johal wrote: As Nelson is not in Oracle 9i, And so the option availbale with him areWho or what is Nelson? There was a guy named Horatio Nelson who died atTrafalgar after tasting too much of French food and was widely followedby the paparazzi of the time because of his affair with Lady Hamilton butI doubt that is the same guy.--Mladen GogalaOracle DBA--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net--Author: Mladen GogalaINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services  -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: SharePlex

Tanel -- Physical Standby databse - This option is good * If there is not much load on the production server and so the Realtime loading can be done thru Data Guard. [ This is possible with 9i and I am not sure with 8i]You probaby meant Logical standby here, because physical standby suitshigh-load environments well, since no additional processing has to be doneon primary db if in archivelog mode (not counting requirement for loggingoperations in here).--- I don't meant to say Logical standby here as Logical Standby databasse can never be Realtime as they work like streams in Asynchronous manner. THe only option available fo Synchronous data movement is with Oracle advance replication or Physical standby Database where it can be configured to make sure that any production databsae change can be first applied to Replica or standby database before applying on the production database But from Nelso Emailm the physical standby is not at all good option as he want to use the other server for Reporting purpose with all data should be very close to production serverDepending on MTTR requirements, one solution would be to just to recoverstandby database few times a day, at lunchtime, for example. This may createsome inconveniences to users though.Note that even when running Apps on shareplex-replicated-standby-databaseisn't probably supported, then for Cognos it doesn't matter, it only dealswith content of tables anyway, and SP should be able to tranfer datacorrectly.- I had worked on the system where Quest has done the setup for using Shareplex with Oracle Financial for demo purpose. There are few gotchas that is been taken care so as to make the CM work fine with the FND_CONC... table. I have not done very high load testing with reports but there was no ID conflict occured with few report Request submitted. As the User who requested this change is going to use Cognos, so I agree with Tanel point that there is not going to be any conflict. So as Nelson is on 8i and as he also cannot go for Oracle 9i as that require him to go for Oracle Apps to 11.5.9 or soWrong, 9i is certified with Apps starting from 11.5.7.--- Yes Tanel is right that 11.5.7 onwards are oracle 9i certified and I put 11.5.9 so as to refer for highest stabel release.Indy JohalManager, Database AdministrationPR Newswire[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.prnewswire.com(201) 946-5687 [W](201) 400-3960 [M]We tell your story to the world.Tanel Poder [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]08/09/2003 03:09 PM PSTPlease respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:  bcc:  Subject: Re: SharePlex Hi! If the Load is not high on the Production server and what I meant by load is the Transaction Load. As it Financial system , so it all depend on the ModulesMore like on number users and their activities.. -- Physical Standby databse - This option is good * If there is not much load on the production server and so the Realtime loading can be done thru Data Guard. [ This is possible with 9i and I am not sure with 8i]You probaby meant Logical standby here, because physical standby suitshigh-load environments well, since no additional processing has to be doneon primary db if in archivelog mode (not counting requirement for loggingoperations in here). But from Nelso Emailm the physical standby is not at all good option as he want to use the other server for Reporting purpose with all data should be very close to production serverDepending on MTTR requirements, one solution would be to just to recoverstandby database few times a day, at lunchtime, for example. This may createsome inconveniences to users though.Note that even when running Apps on shareplex-replicated-standby-databaseisn't probably supported, then for Cognos it doesn't matter, it only dealswith content of tables anyway, and SP should be able to tranfer datacorrectly. So as Nelson is on 8i and as he also cannot go for Oracle 9i as that require him to go for Oracle Apps to 11.5.9 or soWrong, 9i is certified with Apps starting from 11.5.7.Tanel.--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net--Author: Tanel PoderINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services  -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).>W±ëzØ^¡÷âr&¥9,BÅm¶ÿÃ(§Úªwëa¢²'w"h©H4DÈÜ¢¥¦¹ÞÂÌ"ç(V
+r5ëp¢¹z»âqë<çÎwó9Öm§ÿðÃÚµÈÉÊ©Ãè(	©b~ç£X§X¬µ©ÝÁæá¢Ëb®øzÄèDCTL¨º»÷ë¢kaÉX§X¬¶Ç§u©Ä1¨¥ë,j ¸¬´k«¹ör+rr§¢×\²¥)à¡òâ²Ñ®®æ§v)íé²Æ xb)Üç^jX§yÊ'µ¨§x5%9,Bè®Ø^©¡ùX§X¬·*.Á©í¶Þé¨½ç_®¢é

Re: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Tanel Poder

Hi!

 If the Load is not high on the Production server  and what
 I meant by load is the Transaction Load. As it Financial
 system , so it all depend on the Modules

More like on number users and their activities..

 -- Physical Standby databse - This option is good
  * If there is not much load on the production server and so
 the Realtime loading can be done thru Data Guard. [ This is
 possible with 9i and I am not sure with 8i]

You probaby meant Logical standby here, because physical standby suits
high-load environments well, since no additional processing has to be done
on primary db if in archivelog mode (not counting requirement for logging
operations in here).

 But from Nelso Emailm the physical standby is not at all good
 option as he want to use the other server for Reporting purpose
 with all data should be very close to production server

Depending on MTTR requirements, one solution would be to just to recover
standby database few times a day, at lunchtime, for example. This may create
some inconveniences to users though.
Note that even when running Apps on shareplex-replicated-standby-database
isn't probably supported, then for Cognos it doesn't matter, it only deals
with content of tables anyway, and SP should be able to tranfer data
correctly.

 So as Nelson is on 8i and as he also cannot go for Oracle 9i
 as that require him to go for Oracle Apps to 11.5.9 or so

Wrong, 9i is certified with Apps starting from 11.5.7.

Tanel.


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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Mladen Gogala

Title: Message



Actually, logical standby database does have a hidden cost because you 
need Data Guard which is licensed
separately. The product that mimics SharePlex is called Oracle Streams 
and it is a redo log based replication
tool, 
sort of Logminer on steroids. By the way, logminer was published because 
of the Quest who reengineered
the 
format of redo logsand based recovery mechanism on reading the changes 
from the logs and applying
them 
to "replicated" database. Neither logminer, SharePlex nor Streams can handle 
DDL. One has to propagate 
schema 
changes using Quest Schema Manager or the same thing from Embarcadero or, for 
masochists, OEM Change
Management Pack.Iusedevery expletive in the book 
while I was testing OEM and I even invented a few of my 
own.
If you 
opt for any of those tools (and Data Streams is a pretty cool stuff, based on 
the demos, white papers from OTN,
marketing brochures and spam about the database enlargement), you will 
also need a schema manager tool.
Quest 
Schema Manager is a very good tool which I tested 
extensively.
I'f 
you decide to go cheap and use trigger/stored procedures based replication 
("advanced replication"), you'll 
need a 
gun, preferrably 44-magnum. That is known as "go ahead, make my data" option. Do 
you feel lucky?


--Mladen GogalaOracle DBA 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Goulet, DickSent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:59 PMTo: 
  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  SharePlex
  Nelson,
  
   SharePlex does the same basic thing that Oracle does for 
  the logical standby, as a matter of fact if your running 9i why not use that 
  instead of Quests's pricey tool? I don't believe there is any additional 
  cost to using logical standby over the second server license that your going 
  to have to pay anyway.
  
  Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
  DBA 
  
-Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:14 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
SharePlex
Hello, 
Quest is trying to sell us a product named 
SharePlex. It sounds very attractive, but then sales people are 
supposed to be good at that. We are a mid sized company, about 2.2 
billion per year, running Financials 11.5.7. We are interested in this 
for HA and for reporting instance use. 
rant We use Cognos as our query tool and the owners of this product tells 
me that we can't tune the SQL it emits. It makes pretty poor choices, 
which is not surprising for a gooey, sticky tool designed for end 
users. It is sort of pretty and if you can drool you too can generate 
cross products. Anyway , I'd like to get them off the production 
box.
rant/ 
Does SharePlex allow you to stay close to the 
production instance in time? Does the store and forward work 
well? Do you love it? Hate it? Anything you'd like to say 
about this product I'd like to hear
Thanks in advance  

  Allan L. 
  NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238 
  office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
__This 
email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed 
and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, 
forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than 
the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any 
computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. 
[021216]


Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain 
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No 
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If 
you receive this message in error,please immediately delete it and all 
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the 
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, 
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended 
recipient.Wang Trading 
LLCand any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to 
monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, 
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state 
them to be the views of any such entity.

RE: SharePlex Summary

2003-08-14 Thread Goulet, Dick

Title: SharePlex Summary

Allan,

We use HP-UX 11.o 11i with 817 9i. No
difference that I've noticed. Actually 9i seems to perform
better.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i
DBA

-Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:49
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
SharePlex Summary
First thanks to every one who responded both on the
list and to my private email:
The consensus appeared to be: 1. SharePlex is overly expensive for the functionality
delivered and 2. Oracle has caught up
in 9i for much of the functionality 3. Some features of Oracle like IOT's may present some
problems.
We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that
platform. I have been told that the 64bit code imposes a 20 - 25%
performance penalty vs the 32 bit version of 8.1.7. Can anyone address
this from experience?

Allan L.
NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238
office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[021216]

RE: SharePlex Summary

Title: Message

Cool,
I'll give 9i a try on HPUX.

-Original Message-From: Goulet, Dick
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:19
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
SharePlex Summary
Allan,

We use HP-UX 11.o 11i with 817 9i. No
difference that I've noticed. Actually 9i seems to perform
better.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i
DBA

-Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:49
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
SharePlex Summary
First thanks to every one who responded both on
the list and to my private email:
The consensus appeared to be: 1. SharePlex is overly expensive for the
functionality delivered and 2.
Oracle has caught up in 9i for much of the functionality 3. Some features of Oracle like IOT's may present
some problems.
We are on HPUX and 9i is 64 bit only on that
platform. I have been told that the 64bit code imposes a 20 - 25%
performance penalty vs the 32 bit version of 8.1.7. Can anyone address
this from experience?

RE: SharePlex Summary

2003-08-14 Thread Matthew Zito

Title: Message

Hrrrmm
- regardless of what Oracle is running, the kernel is 64-bit, so the locally
represented 32-bit addresses are converted to 64-bit addresses for all memory
operations anyway. And I'm pretty sure the PA-RISC architecture uses a
64-bit wide bus, so moving an address to a register is still a 1-cycle
operation.

Now,
where there could be a performance hit is poor 64-bit compiler designI
wonder what Oracle used.

Thanks,
Matt
--Matthew ZitoGridApp SystemsEmail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Cell: 646-220-3551Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359http://www.gridapp.com

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Nelson, AllanSent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:44
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
SharePlex Summary
Yes
we are PA risc rather than Itanic. The analysis I heard was the 64 bits
(8 bytes) take longer to get into the CPU itself as the buss had to transfer
more data, that 64 bit instructions can take longer for that
reason.Without testing who can know. No time yet to
test.

Allan

-Original Message-From: Mladen Gogala
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003
3:30 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: SharePlex Summary
No
penalty. HP-UX is 64-bit os running on a 64-bit chip. Why would 64 bits
impose any
penalty? Running 64 bits is what comes naturally. Running 64 bits
means that sizeof(void *) will return 8 instead of 4.
That, in turn, means that SGA can grow much bigger because you don't
have 4G limit and that your files can grow
extremely big. If anything, 64 bit is much faster, because it can
calculate with much bigger int's and doubles.
Hopefully, your box has PA 8600 init and not Itanic. If latter is the
case, I have no idea whatsoever about what you
might expect. On the other hand, who will ever need more then 640K
RAM?

--Mladen GogalaOracle DBA

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RE: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Hallas, John, Tech Dev

Is your first sentence a bit of an understatement Nick ? If so I suppose you can call 
your points 'leading' questions like lawyers use to trap a defendant
We use Shareplex and I have seen some of your posts on the subject (and still have 
them in my saved box)
 
John
 

-Original Message-
Sent: 09 August 2003 00:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I know a little of their product...   but I think you should be well aware of the 
limitations before attempting to implement it.  Here are a couple of questions to ask 
the technical folks over there...
 
1) What happens when someone applies an Oracle Financials patch to the system.  What 
is the procedure?
2) Do you have anyone else running Financials 11i that you could talk to as a 
reference?
3) Do they support IOT's? (Which Financials has a lot of)
4) How much downtime is normally associated with something like adding a new table or 
dropping one from replication?  
 
Nick
 
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We are not running 9i  but 8.1.7.4, sorry for not including that earlier.  We are 
rolling out to our international offices and we basically have offices in every time 
zone.  I'm looking at SharePlex for HA, reporting use, and potentially migrating from 
HP to Linux.  They will be on Linux next month.
 
Allan

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Nelson,
 
SharePlex does the same basic thing that Oracle does for the logical standby, as a 
matter of fact if your running 9i why not use that instead of Quests's pricey tool?  I 
don't believe there is any additional cost to using logical standby over the second 
server license that your going to have to pay anyway.
 

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Hello, 

Quest is trying to sell us a product named SharePlex.  It sounds very attractive, but 
then sales people are supposed to be good at that.  We are a mid sized company, about 
2.2 billion per year, running Financials 11.5.7.  We are interested in this for HA and 
for reporting instance use.  

rant 
We use Cognos as our query tool and the owners of this product tells me that we can't 
tune the SQL it emits.  It makes pretty poor choices, which is not surprising for a 
gooey, sticky tool designed for end users.  It is sort of pretty and if you can drool 
you too can generate cross products.  Anyway , I'd like to get them off the production 
box.

rant/ 

Does SharePlex allow you to stay close to the production instance in time?  Does the 
store and forward work well?  Do you love it?  Hate it?  Anything you'd like to say 
about this product I'd like to hear

Thanks in advance 
  


Allan L. Nelson
Oracle DBA 
M-I L.L.C.
(832) 295-2238 office
(832) 351-4180 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or 
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monitored for policy compliance. [021216]


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RE: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Hallas, John, Tech Dev

Ha, been there done that
Not an uncommon event as I understand it.
 
John

-Original Message-
Sent: 09 August 2003 23:59
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I'll add one to the list:
 
nnn) How much downtime and DBA time is required when the Shareplex replication queues 
get corrupted and you have to rebuild your entire replicated database? (I only add 
that as I've got to do it tomorrow morning).
 
 T¬

Sent: 09 August 2003 00:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I know a little of their product...   but I think you should be well aware of the 
limitations before attempting to implement it.  Here are a couple of questions to ask 
the technical folks over there...
 
1) What happens when someone applies an Oracle Financials patch to the system.  What 
is the procedure?
2) Do you have anyone else running Financials 11i that you could talk to as a 
reference?
3) Do they support IOT's? (Which Financials has a lot of)
4) How much downtime is normally associated with something like adding a new table or 
dropping one from replication?  
 
Nick
 
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We are not running 9i  but 8.1.7.4, sorry for not including that earlier.  We are 
rolling out to our international offices and we basically have offices in every time 
zone.  I'm looking at SharePlex for HA, reporting use, and potentially migrating from 
HP to Linux.  They will be on Linux next month.
 
Allan

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Nelson,
 
SharePlex does the same basic thing that Oracle does for the logical standby, as a 
matter of fact if your running 9i why not use that instead of Quests's pricey tool?  I 
don't believe there is any additional cost to using logical standby over the second 
server license that your going to have to pay anyway.
 

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Hello, 

Quest is trying to sell us a product named SharePlex.  It sounds very attractive, but 
then sales people are supposed to be good at that.  We are a mid sized company, about 
2.2 billion per year, running Financials 11.5.7.  We are interested in this for HA and 
for reporting instance use.  

rant 
We use Cognos as our query tool and the owners of this product tells me that we can't 
tune the SQL it emits.  It makes pretty poor choices, which is not surprising for a 
gooey, sticky tool designed for end users.  It is sort of pretty and if you can drool 
you too can generate cross products.  Anyway , I'd like to get them off the production 
box.

rant/ 

Does SharePlex allow you to stay close to the production instance in time?  Does the 
store and forward work well?  Do you love it?  Hate it?  Anything you'd like to say 
about this product I'd like to hear

Thanks in advance 
  


Allan L. Nelson
Oracle DBA 
M-I L.L.C.
(832) 295-2238 office
(832) 351-4180 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



__
This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and 
may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or 
distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender 
immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been 
monitored for policy compliance. [021216]


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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Tanel Poder




Hi!

  --- I don't meant to say Logical standby here as 
  Logical Standby databasse can never be Realtime as they work like streams in 
  Asynchronous manner. THe only option available fo Synchronous data movement is 
  with Oracle advance replication or Physical standby Database where it can be 
  configured to make sure that any production databsae change can be first 
  applied to Replica or standby database before applying on the production 
  database
  If we talk about a reporting 
  instance, then physical standby no data loss isn't doable either, because 
  physical standby can't recover  be open the same time, as you probably 
  know. And real time data transfer for reporting in normal business environment 
  seems nonsense anyway, couple of minutes here or there doesn't 
  matter.
  I'd say that logical standby isn't 
  always good solution for high load environments, because unlike physical 
  stdby, it increases load on primary server (supplemental logging is needed 
  afaik).
  Tanel.

RE: SharePlex

Title: Message



We are 
not running 9i but 8.1.7.4, sorry for not including that earlier. We 
are rolling out to our international offices and we basically have offices in 
every time zone. I'm looking at SharePlex for HA, reporting use, and 
potentially migrating from HP to Linux. They will be on Linux next 
month.

Allan

  
  -Original Message-From: Goulet, Dick 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:59 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  SharePlex
  Nelson,
  
   SharePlex does the same basic thing that Oracle does for 
  the logical standby, as a matter of fact if your running 9i why not use that 
  instead of Quests's pricey tool? I don't believe there is any additional 
  cost to using logical standby over the second server license that your going 
  to have to pay anyway.
  
  Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
  DBA 
  
-Original Message-From: Nelson, Allan 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:14 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
SharePlex
Hello, 
Quest is trying to sell us a product named 
SharePlex. It sounds very attractive, but then sales people are 
supposed to be good at that. We are a mid sized company, about 2.2 
billion per year, running Financials 11.5.7. We are interested in this 
for HA and for reporting instance use. 
rant We use Cognos as our query tool and the owners of this product tells 
me that we can't tune the SQL it emits. It makes pretty poor choices, 
which is not surprising for a gooey, sticky tool designed for end 
users. It is sort of pretty and if you can drool you too can generate 
cross products. Anyway , I'd like to get them off the production 
box.
rant/ 
Does SharePlex allow you to stay close to the 
production instance in time? Does the store and forward work 
well? Do you love it? Hate it? Anything you'd like to say 
about this product I'd like to hear
Thanks in advance  

  Allan L. 
  NelsonOracle DBA M-I L.L.C.(832) 295-2238 
  office(832) 351-4180 fax[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
__This 
email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed 
and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, 
forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than 
the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any 
computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. 
[021216]

Re: SharePlex

2003-08-14 Thread Tanel Poder

 On 2003.08.09 17:14, Indy Johal wrote:
  As Nelson is not in Oracle 9i, And so the option availbale with him are
 
 Who or what is Nelson? There was a guy named Horatio Nelson who died at
 Trafalgar after tasting too much of French food and was widely followed
 by the paparazzi of the time because of his affair with Lady Hamilton but
 I doubt that is the same guy. 

Mandela?

Tanel.


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RE: SharePlex