Re: what is BAARF?
Well, we've begun to put good stuff about RAID-F on www.BAARF.com, including the good writing by Art Kagel mentioned below. One of the fantastic gems that just arrived today from a good source is the one from Sun where they describe a very unique way of implementing RAID-10 that actually makes it slower than RAID-5. Yes, sir. They succeed where noone has succeeded before ;-). There's of course also the original RAID paper plus Cary's "Is RAID-5 really a bargain?" plus Sane SAN. We're probably missing a lot of good writings on this topic on the list - if you know of a good article or pointer, just let us know. Mogens Bob Lofstrand wrote: It is good to see Oracle and Informix DBAs agree on something once in a while. Art Kagel and many others from the Informix list have been fighting the good fight for a long time. http://www.smooth1.demon.co.uk/ifaq06.htm#6.58 I sent this baarf link to a former co-worker still in the Informix world. I got this response: Bob, That is impeccable timing. I was in Dallas last week with Victor and James looking at SAN systems from Hitachi and IBM. Both vendors were heavily pushing RAID-5 and treated me like a leper when I objected. Troy. My question is what to do from a practical point of view. How have others approached convincing management that RAID 5 is the devil. I guess what I want is a list of the most effective questions and facts that will make these vendors look like idiots when they refuse to give up on RAID 5. -Original Message- From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: what is BAARF? See www.baarf.com. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Denver, Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Hesin e-postur er kannaður fyri virus av Føroya Tele. This e-mail was virus scanned by Faroese Telecom. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'Lis
RE: what is BAARF?
Title: Message Interesting discussion. this is the first time I have seen objections to RAID technology. My cohort in crime, my senior developer (Lee Achorn), and I discussed this at length yesterday and without knowing the compelling arguments came to the conclusion that at least for a database system that maintains transaction logs (are these Redo logs for Oracle?) on off-server real estate and a good back up regimen is in place then why would one need RAID 5? We are running RAID 5 here at MacDill and we have had 4 single disk failures in the last 14 months. The rebuild time has essentially been 45 minutes to 90 minutes with degraded server operations. v/r Stephen S. Wolfe, GS-11, DAFC Data Services Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] (813) 827-9974 DSN 651-9974 -Original Message-From: Bob Lofstrand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:49 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: what is BAARF? It is good to see Oracle and Informix DBAs agree on something once in a while. Art Kagel and many others from the Informix list have been fighting the good fight for a long time. http://www.smooth1.demon.co.uk/ifaq06.htm#6.58 I sent this baarf link to a former co-worker still in the Informix world. I got this response: Bob, That is impeccable timing. I was in Dallas last week with Victor and James looking at SAN systems from Hitachi and IBM. Both vendors were heavily pushing RAID-5 and treated me like a leper when I objected. Troy. My question is what to do from a practical point of view. How have others approached convincing management that RAID 5 is the devil. I guess what I want is a list of the most effective questions and facts that will make these vendors look like idiots when they refuse to give up on RAID 5. -Original Message- From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: what is BAARF? See www.baarf.com. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Denver, Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
RE: what is BAARF? --- OFA
You may want to check out Bill Burke's paper "Putting Oracle's OFA on Steriods" at http:// www.oracleguru.com Is Bill still on this list? - Kirti --- "Jesse, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey Tim, > > D'oh! The problem with e-mail is that it takes an hour to convey what would > take 5 minutes in person... :) > > While I stand by my original e-mail, I do understand that OFA was designed > to do exactly what the acronym says: be optimal and flexible. My problem > with it is that I do not see OFA as optimal, at least not anymore. Perhaps > it's just me, but I just don't understand the reasoning of the parts of OFA > I had outlined now nor 14 years ago. Maybe it's because I had much more > hair 13-14 years ago (more on my head, at least, with less in other places), > and the combined human caused faults/accidents over those years has caused > me to be much more strict in the way I'd like to see hardware and software > set up. Or perhaps it's because I cut my teeth on VMS and haven't conformed > to accepted Unix practice, nor do I see a need to if an alternative can be > established as being subjectively "better" (re: "/unn" mountpoints). > > OK, enough of my babble. I would LOVE to see OFA updated! I won't hold my > breath that any of my suggestions would be incorporated, but then again I'm > just one person. I'll happily continue using a mostly-OFA setup. Except on > VMS, which Oracle Corp does not conform to OFA at least thru v8.1.7. Then > again, we have no more VMS... :( > > BTW, wasn't dangling from a clock tower Harold Lloyd's trademark? :) > > Thanks for listening to my whining, > Rich > > Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Tim Gorman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 11:09 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA > > > > > > Rich, > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA
Tim, James, Mogens, Group, Another BAARF advocate here... However, I recognize Tim's problem when HW vendors: a) push raid5 or some form of autoraid. b) push for 8 separate disks of 125G each with only redo-files on them... While the BAARF initiative should continue in its simple, elegant and forcefull form (hammer the msg home), I want to place a call to Gary, Tim and others, to undertake A Revamp of the original OFA paper. Determine the new requirements (most of the old ones still stand!) and from the requirements, enhance the OFA-structure. It should take into account: - SAN capabilities (snapshotting and snapshot-logs or caches) - RAC and Clustered file systems, anticipate on 10G. - easy of admin: single point of admin per database, not per instance. - make provisions for (physical) copies (acceptance/testing/development) - standby-db constructions (including for RAC-dbs, and favour good-old-and-simple sqlplus ;-). - Weigh the importance of redo-speed against things like archive-storage and recoverability based on snap-copies. Separate redo-files only if redo is your bottleneck. Tip: Redo-files are the easiest db-files to move around: just add new groups... Any Takers ? Any ideas for a joint-effort ? Regards, PdV Oracle DBA. DTMWFI, FWIW, JMTC and YMWV (of course it will) PS: Frustration cost me my lunch break. Me too, Got bitten badly by a hardware vendor recently for _not_ putting aside 35% of my multi-TB disk-capacity exclusively for redos. Salesman dreams to sell an additional nr of disks at 5% utilization because of the trueism: "redo files should be on private, physical, devices". He even knew of OFA, the Oracle-FILE-Architecture :-). Any advertising, as long as they spell the name right -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Piet de Visser INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: what is BAARF? --- OFA
Hey Tim, D'oh! The problem with e-mail is that it takes an hour to convey what would take 5 minutes in person... :) While I stand by my original e-mail, I do understand that OFA was designed to do exactly what the acronym says: be optimal and flexible. My problem with it is that I do not see OFA as optimal, at least not anymore. Perhaps it's just me, but I just don't understand the reasoning of the parts of OFA I had outlined now nor 14 years ago. Maybe it's because I had much more hair 13-14 years ago (more on my head, at least, with less in other places), and the combined human caused faults/accidents over those years has caused me to be much more strict in the way I'd like to see hardware and software set up. Or perhaps it's because I cut my teeth on VMS and haven't conformed to accepted Unix practice, nor do I see a need to if an alternative can be established as being subjectively "better" (re: "/unn" mountpoints). OK, enough of my babble. I would LOVE to see OFA updated! I won't hold my breath that any of my suggestions would be incorporated, but then again I'm just one person. I'll happily continue using a mostly-OFA setup. Except on VMS, which Oracle Corp does not conform to OFA at least thru v8.1.7. Then again, we have no more VMS... :( BTW, wasn't dangling from a clock tower Harold Lloyd's trademark? :) Thanks for listening to my whining, Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA > -Original Message- > From: Tim Gorman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 11:09 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA > > > Rich, > > The original author of OFA is an active contributor to this > list, but I > don't know whether there will be a response, so I thought I'd jump in. > > Optimal Flexible Architecture (OFA) was such a fundamental > dose of common > sense 13-14 years ago that it's very revolution has lost it's > sting over the > years. Kind of like the way that nobody finds the Marx > Brothers movies to > be funny anymore, because every other comedy movie > immediately fell into the > same pattern, causing everyone to forget that movies comedies > previosly > meant people bashing each other in the head and dangling from > clock towers > and stuff... > > Oracle used to ship everything under the $ORACLE_HOME > directory, which was > bad in so many ways it can't be counted. If I were to > summarize OFA, it was > recognition that at least three major sets of directory > structures were > needed: > > * software distribution > * administrative, trace, and log files > * database files > > Each had to be separated, because each gets treated > differently. Software > distribution would be updated and upgraded. Admin files had > to persist > across updates/upgrades but not be lumped in with the actual > database. The > actual database had to be treated differently than either > software or admin > files for obvious reasons. > > Yes, naming online redo log files with ".log" extensions is > bad; I went to > recommending ".rdo" extensions long ago for that reason. OFA > isn't hung up > on specific names, in fact the original paper specifically > avoids suggesting > names other than for illustration purposes. Same with the > MTPT names... > > Just as with the Marx Brothers movies, imagine a world where > OFA didn't > exist, where the author didn't push and push and push and > push the Oracle > product folks to see the light and stop installing product as if every > server was a desktop PC... > > Hope this helps... > > -Tim > > > on 8/5/03 7:49 AM, Jesse, Rich at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Not a "taker", but I'll put in my disdain for OFA, taken > from the OFA doc at > > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/html/A97297_01/appg_ofa.htm : > > > > 1) Who in their right minds thought it was a good idea to > name the redos > > with a ".log" extention? It's asking for trouble, if not > from a DBA, then > > from an SA or a script that's used to clean up old log > files. Why the risk? > > > > 2) For similar reasons, I refuse to create the database files under > > $ORACLE_BASE. How often does a DBA peruse that file tree? > Daily, for me. > > Put them on a separate directory off of "/" on Unix, or > their own drive > > letter for Winders. Then, anyone wanting to mess with the > files from the &g
Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA
Hi! > 4) I think the "/u01", "/u02", etc. MP naming is a pain. They mean > nothing. In a disaster recovery, the last thing you want is to have someone > forget what "/u01" is. This is the 21st century, people! We have the power > to NAME DIRECTORIES something meaningful! I still like to use concept of /u[0-9][0-9]/oradata/$DBNAME, that means database name is included in directory path and I can use wildcards when playing around in file system. Other notation I've seen is somewhat opposite: /data/$DBNAME/[0-9][0-9]/ Other installations have used no standard for placing datafiles or have used "random" as standard :| Tanel. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tanel Poder INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA
Rich, The original author of OFA is an active contributor to this list, but I don't know whether there will be a response, so I thought I'd jump in. Optimal Flexible Architecture (OFA) was such a fundamental dose of common sense 13-14 years ago that it's very revolution has lost it's sting over the years. Kind of like the way that nobody finds the Marx Brothers movies to be funny anymore, because every other comedy movie immediately fell into the same pattern, causing everyone to forget that movies comedies previosly meant people bashing each other in the head and dangling from clock towers and stuff... Oracle used to ship everything under the $ORACLE_HOME directory, which was bad in so many ways it can't be counted. If I were to summarize OFA, it was recognition that at least three major sets of directory structures were needed: * software distribution * administrative, trace, and log files * database files Each had to be separated, because each gets treated differently. Software distribution would be updated and upgraded. Admin files had to persist across updates/upgrades but not be lumped in with the actual database. The actual database had to be treated differently than either software or admin files for obvious reasons. Yes, naming online redo log files with ".log" extensions is bad; I went to recommending ".rdo" extensions long ago for that reason. OFA isn't hung up on specific names, in fact the original paper specifically avoids suggesting names other than for illustration purposes. Same with the MTPT names... Just as with the Marx Brothers movies, imagine a world where OFA didn't exist, where the author didn't push and push and push and push the Oracle product folks to see the light and stop installing product as if every server was a desktop PC... Hope this helps... -Tim on 8/5/03 7:49 AM, Jesse, Rich at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Not a "taker", but I'll put in my disdain for OFA, taken from the OFA doc at > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/html/A97297_01/appg_ofa.htm : > > 1) Who in their right minds thought it was a good idea to name the redos > with a ".log" extention? It's asking for trouble, if not from a DBA, then > from an SA or a script that's used to clean up old log files. Why the risk? > > 2) For similar reasons, I refuse to create the database files under > $ORACLE_BASE. How often does a DBA peruse that file tree? Daily, for me. > Put them on a separate directory off of "/" on Unix, or their own drive > letter for Winders. Then, anyone wanting to mess with the files from the > O/S level usually needs to go there on purpose and not by accident (unless > "root" does an "rm -R *" from "/", in which case there ain't a whole lot you > can do anyway). > > 3) Having the administrative directory structure (table G-8 on the above > link) is impractical at best, and dangerous at worst. If you lose one MP > (mount point; one set of drives), you lose all instances. To prevent this, > you'd need to create SEVERAL MPs for each DB, even on a small system. This > just isn't going to happen. Instead, we make an "admin" directory under > $ORACLE_BASE, then a "DBNAME" directory for each DB underneath that. The > appropriate adump, bdump, cdump, udump, pfile, etc. directories are then > created for each DBNAME. Then, if necessary, each DBNAME directory can have > their own MP, for recoverability and scalability (I wouldn't stretch it to > include "performance"!). > > 4) I think the "/u01", "/u02", etc. MP naming is a pain. They mean > nothing. In a disaster recovery, the last thing you want is to have someone > forget what "/u01" is. This is the 21st century, people! We have the power > to NAME DIRECTORIES something meaningful! > > NOFA! :) > > Rich > > Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Piet de Visser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:39 AM >> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >> Subject: Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA >> >> >> Tim, James, Mogens, Group, >> >> Another BAARF advocate here... >> >> However, I recognize Tim's problem when HW vendors: >> a) push raid5 or some form of autoraid. >> b) push for 8 separate disks of 125G each with only >> redo-files on them... >> >> While the BAARF initiative should continue in its simple, >> elegant and forcefull form (hammer the msg home), >> I want to place a call to Gary, Tim
RE: what is BAARF?
Rachel Carmichael scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: > if nominated I will not run, if elected I shall not serve but think of the distraction if you wear THE DRESS.;-) -- Bill "Shrek" Thater ORACLE DBA BAARF Party member #25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear. - Daniel Dennett -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: what is BAARF? --- OFA
Not a "taker", but I'll put in my disdain for OFA, taken from the OFA doc at http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/html/A97297_01/appg_ofa.htm : 1) Who in their right minds thought it was a good idea to name the redos with a ".log" extention? It's asking for trouble, if not from a DBA, then from an SA or a script that's used to clean up old log files. Why the risk? 2) For similar reasons, I refuse to create the database files under $ORACLE_BASE. How often does a DBA peruse that file tree? Daily, for me. Put them on a separate directory off of "/" on Unix, or their own drive letter for Winders. Then, anyone wanting to mess with the files from the O/S level usually needs to go there on purpose and not by accident (unless "root" does an "rm -R *" from "/", in which case there ain't a whole lot you can do anyway). 3) Having the administrative directory structure (table G-8 on the above link) is impractical at best, and dangerous at worst. If you lose one MP (mount point; one set of drives), you lose all instances. To prevent this, you'd need to create SEVERAL MPs for each DB, even on a small system. This just isn't going to happen. Instead, we make an "admin" directory under $ORACLE_BASE, then a "DBNAME" directory for each DB underneath that. The appropriate adump, bdump, cdump, udump, pfile, etc. directories are then created for each DBNAME. Then, if necessary, each DBNAME directory can have their own MP, for recoverability and scalability (I wouldn't stretch it to include "performance"!). 4) I think the "/u01", "/u02", etc. MP naming is a pain. They mean nothing. In a disaster recovery, the last thing you want is to have someone forget what "/u01" is. This is the 21st century, people! We have the power to NAME DIRECTORIES something meaningful! NOFA! :) Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA > -Original Message----- > From: Piet de Visser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:39 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re: what is BAARF? --- OFA > > > Tim, James, Mogens, Group, > > Another BAARF advocate here... > > However, I recognize Tim's problem when HW vendors: > a) push raid5 or some form of autoraid. > b) push for 8 separate disks of 125G each with only > redo-files on them... > > While the BAARF initiative should continue in its simple, > elegant and forcefull form (hammer the msg home), > I want to place a call to Gary, Tim and others, > to undertake A Revamp of the original OFA paper. > > Determine the new requirements (most of the old ones still stand!) > and from the requirements, enhance the OFA-structure. > It should take into account: > - SAN capabilities (snapshotting and snapshot-logs or caches) > - RAC and Clustered file systems, anticipate on 10G. > - easy of admin: single point of admin per database, not per > instance. > - make provisions for (physical) copies > (acceptance/testing/development) > - standby-db constructions (including for RAC-dbs, and > favour good-old-and-simple sqlplus ;-). > - Weigh the importance of redo-speed against things like > archive-storage and recoverability based on snap-copies. > Separate redo-files only if redo is your bottleneck. Tip: Redo-files > are the easiest db-files to move around: just add new groups... > > Any Takers ? > Any ideas for a joint-effort ? > > > Regards, > > PdV > > Oracle DBA. > > DTMWFI, FWIW, JMTC and YMWV (of course it will) > > > PS: Frustration cost me my lunch break. > Me too, Got bitten badly by a hardware vendor recently for _not_ > putting aside 35% of my multi-TB disk-capacity exclusively for redos. > Salesman dreams to sell an additional nr of disks at 5% utilization > because of the trueism: > "redo files should be on private, physical, devices". > He even knew of OFA, the Oracle-FILE-Architecture :-). > Any advertising, as long as they spell the name right -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is BAARF?
virtual tar and feathers comes to mind...
RAID5 has it's place, which always happens to be in someone else's shop.
"Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
08/04/2003 03:54 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:Re: what is BAARF?
thanks... that article is pretty funny.
what would happen if i started advocating using RAID-5 on here?
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:24 PM
> if nominated I will not run, if elected I shall not serve
>
>
> --- "Karniotis, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The Web Site given to us by Cary, www.baarf.com, indicates that a
> > spokesperson, similar to that of the Iraqi Information Minister, is
> > being
> > looked for.
> >
> > Thus, to forward the harmony of the organization, I nominate the
> > following
> > people for consideration
> >
> > 1. Gaja - Always a good spokesperson and we can have fun with
> > him
> > 2. Mogens - Could use his sarcasm to benefit the US audience.
> > 3. Rachel "Super Babe" Carmichael - No explanation needed
> >
> >
> > Thank You
> >
> > Stephen P. Karniotis
> > Technical Alliance Manager
> > Compuware Corporation
> > Direct: (313) 227-4350
> > Mobile: (248) 408-2918
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Web: www.compuware.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:35 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > According to http://www.baarf.com/
> >
> > Battle Against Any Raid F
> >
> > BAARF was invented by James Morle on Wednesday the 4th of June, 2003,
> > in
> > the Grange hotel outside Birmingham while having a beer or two with
> > Mogens
> > Nørgaard.
> >
> >
> > On the following day - Thursday the 5th of June, which happens to be
> > the
> > Danish national holiday celebrating our constitution - the Battle
> > Agaist
> > Any Raid Five initiative was announced jointly by James and Mogens in
> > front
> > of the UK Oracle User Group UNIX Special Interest Group meeting at
> > the
> > Grange hotel.
> >
> >
> > Both announcers were careful to sport the "Enough is Enough" look
> > (including arms folded across the chest) while delivering the message
> > to
> > about 80 delegates.
> >
> >
> > It's important to note, that RAID-3, -4, and -5 are all included in
> > the
> > initiative, so the F in BAARF both stands for Five, Four, and
> > ...err...
> > Free.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > >To: Multiple
> > recipients
> > of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: cc:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: what is
> > BAARF?
> >
> > .com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 08/04/2003 02:19
> >
> > PM
> >
> > Please respond to
> >
> > ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some
> > kind
> > of storage system right?
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author:
> > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Netwo
RE: what is BAARF?
Title: RE: what is BAARF? Guys, I am trying to spread the word of BAARF. -Original Message-From: Bob Lofstrand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:49 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: what is BAARF? It is good to see Oracle and Informix DBAs agree on something once in a while. Art Kagel and many others from the Informix list have been fighting the good fight for a long time. http://www.smooth1.demon.co.uk/ifaq06.htm#6.58 I sent this baarf link to a former co-worker still in the Informix world. I got this response: Bob, That is impeccable timing. I was in Dallas last week with Victor and James looking at SAN systems from Hitachi and IBM. Both vendors were heavily pushing RAID-5 and treated me like a leper when I objected. Troy. My question is what to do from a practical point of view. How have others approached convincing management that RAID 5 is the devil. I guess what I want is a list of the most effective questions and facts that will make these vendors look like idiots when they refuse to give up on RAID 5. -Original Message- From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: what is BAARF? See www.baarf.com. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Denver, Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: what is BAARF?
thanks... that article is pretty funny. what would happen if i started advocating using RAID-5 on here? - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:24 PM > if nominated I will not run, if elected I shall not serve > > > --- "Karniotis, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The Web Site given to us by Cary, www.baarf.com, indicates that a > > spokesperson, similar to that of the Iraqi Information Minister, is > > being > > looked for. > > > > Thus, to forward the harmony of the organization, I nominate the > > following > > people for consideration > > > > 1. Gaja - Always a good spokesperson and we can have fun with > > him > > 2. Mogens - Could use his sarcasm to benefit the US audience. > > 3. Rachel "Super Babe" Carmichael - No explanation needed > > > > > > Thank You > > > > Stephen P. Karniotis > > Technical Alliance Manager > > Compuware Corporation > > Direct: (313) 227-4350 > > Mobile: (248) 408-2918 > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Web: www.compuware.com > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:35 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > > According to http://www.baarf.com/ > > > > Battle Against Any Raid F > > > > BAARF was invented by James Morle on Wednesday the 4th of June, 2003, > > in > > the Grange hotel outside Birmingham while having a beer or two with > > Mogens > > Nørgaard. > > > > > > On the following day - Thursday the 5th of June, which happens to be > > the > > Danish national holiday celebrating our constitution - the Battle > > Agaist > > Any Raid Five initiative was announced jointly by James and Mogens in > > front > > of the UK Oracle User Group UNIX Special Interest Group meeting at > > the > > Grange hotel. > > > > > > Both announcers were careful to sport the "Enough is Enough" look > > (including arms folded across the chest) while delivering the message > > to > > about 80 delegates. > > > > > > It's important to note, that RAID-3, -4, and -5 are all included in > > the > > initiative, so the F in BAARF both stands for Five, Four, and > > ...err... > > Free. > > > > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >To: Multiple > > recipients > > of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: cc: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: what is > > BAARF? > > > > .com > > > > > > > > > > > > 08/04/2003 02:19 > > > > PM > > > > Please respond to > > > > ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some > > kind > > of storage system right? > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > -- > > Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > > - > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > -- > > Author: > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > > - > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > > > > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee > > only. It > > contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the > > named > > addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or > > disclose > > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us > > immediately > > and then destroy it. > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > -- > > Author: Karniotis, Stephen > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > > ---
RE: what is BAARF?
Title: RE: what is BAARF? It is good to see Oracle and Informix DBAs agree on something once in a while. Art Kagel and many others from the Informix list have been fighting the good fight for a long time. http://www.smooth1.demon.co.uk/ifaq06.htm#6.58 I sent this baarf link to a former co-worker still in the Informix world. I got this response: Bob, That is impeccable timing. I was in Dallas last week with Victor and James looking at SAN systems from Hitachi and IBM. Both vendors were heavily pushing RAID-5 and treated me like a leper when I objected. Troy. My question is what to do from a practical point of view. How have others approached convincing management that RAID 5 is the devil. I guess what I want is a list of the most effective questions and facts that will make these vendors look like idiots when they refuse to give up on RAID 5. -Original Message- From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: what is BAARF? See www.baarf.com. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Denver, Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
RE: what is BAARF?
if nominated I will not run, if elected I shall not serve --- "Karniotis, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Web Site given to us by Cary, www.baarf.com, indicates that a > spokesperson, similar to that of the Iraqi Information Minister, is > being > looked for. > > Thus, to forward the harmony of the organization, I nominate the > following > people for consideration > > 1.Gaja- Always a good spokesperson and we can have fun with > him > 2.Mogens - Could use his sarcasm to benefit the US audience. > 3. Rachel "Super Babe" Carmichael - No explanation needed > > > Thank You > > Stephen P. Karniotis > Technical Alliance Manager > Compuware Corporation > Direct: (313) 227-4350 > Mobile: (248) 408-2918 > Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web: www.compuware.com > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:35 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > According to http://www.baarf.com/ > > Battle Against Any Raid F > > BAARF was invented by James Morle on Wednesday the 4th of June, 2003, > in > the Grange hotel outside Birmingham while having a beer or two with > Mogens > Nørgaard. > > > On the following day - Thursday the 5th of June, which happens to be > the > Danish national holiday celebrating our constitution - the Battle > Agaist > Any Raid Five initiative was announced jointly by James and Mogens in > front > of the UK Oracle User Group UNIX Special Interest Group meeting at > the > Grange hotel. > > > Both announcers were careful to sport the "Enough is Enough" look > (including arms folded across the chest) while delivering the message > to > about 80 delegates. > > > It's important to note, that RAID-3, -4, and -5 are all included in > the > initiative, so the F in BAARF both stands for Five, Four, and > ...err... > Free. > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To: Multiple > recipients > of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: cc: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: what is > BAARF? > > .com > > > > > > 08/04/2003 02:19 > > PM > > Please respond to > > ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some > kind > of storage system right? > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee > only. It > contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the > named > addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or > disclose > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us > immediately > and then destroy it. > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Karniotis, Stephen > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Fre
RE: what is BAARF?
The Web Site given to us by Cary, www.baarf.com, indicates that a spokesperson, similar to that of the Iraqi Information Minister, is being looked for. Thus, to forward the harmony of the organization, I nominate the following people for consideration 1. Gaja- Always a good spokesperson and we can have fun with him 2. Mogens - Could use his sarcasm to benefit the US audience. 3. Rachel "Super Babe" Carmichael - No explanation needed Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (313) 227-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L According to http://www.baarf.com/ Battle Against Any Raid F BAARF was invented by James Morle on Wednesday the 4th of June, 2003, in the Grange hotel outside Birmingham while having a beer or two with Mogens Nørgaard. On the following day - Thursday the 5th of June, which happens to be the Danish national holiday celebrating our constitution - the Battle Agaist Any Raid Five initiative was announced jointly by James and Mogens in front of the UK Oracle User Group UNIX Special Interest Group meeting at the Grange hotel. Both announcers were careful to sport the "Enough is Enough" look (including arms folded across the chest) while delivering the message to about 80 delegates. It's important to note, that RAID-3, -4, and -5 are all included in the initiative, so the F in BAARF both stands for Five, Four, and ...err... Free. <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: what is BAARF? .com 08/04/2003 02:19 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is BAARF?
Hi Have a look at http://www.baarf.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Peter Gram, Miracle A/S Phone : +45 2527 7107, Fax : +45 4466 8856, Home +45 3874 5696 mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://MiracleAS.dk -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Peter Gram INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is BAARF?
According to http://www.baarf.com/ Battle Against Any Raid F BAARF was invented by James Morle on Wednesday the 4th of June, 2003, in the Grange hotel outside Birmingham while having a beer or two with Mogens Nørgaard. On the following day - Thursday the 5th of June, which happens to be the Danish national holiday celebrating our constitution - the Battle Agaist Any Raid Five initiative was announced jointly by James and Mogens in front of the UK Oracle User Group UNIX Special Interest Group meeting at the Grange hotel. Both announcers were careful to sport the “Enough is Enough” look (including arms folded across the chest) while delivering the message to about 80 delegates. It’s important to note, that RAID-3, -4, and -5 are all included in the initiative, so the F in BAARF both stands for Five, Four, and …err… Free. <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: what is BAARF? .com 08/04/2003 02:19 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: what is BAARF?
See www.baarf.com. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Denver, Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
