subject:"Re\: Backup Strategy"

RE: backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3

2003-04-01 Thread Jared . Still

Try help.sap.com and search on RMAN and Oracle.

Here's one to get you started. 

http://help.sap-ag.de/sapdocu/core/470/helpdata/EN/3f/9d80051aec11d2b42c00609419997a/content.htm

Jared





"Roger Xu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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 04/01/2003 01:09 PM
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    Subject:RE: backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3


Yes.
In fact, I am trying to decide using RMAN or SAP BR-tools.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 2:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Roger
   We don't run SAP, but are you considering using RMAN as a part of your
plans?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

What is the backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3 on
Solaris?
We are using Legato products and they have NetWorker Module for Oracle and
NetWorker  Module for SAP on Oracle.
Which one is better?

Thanks,


Roger Xu
Database Administrator
Dr Pepper Bottling Company of Texas
(972)721-8337



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RE: backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3

2003-04-01 Thread Roger Xu

Yes.
In fact, I am trying to decide using RMAN or SAP BR-tools.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 2:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Roger
   We don't run SAP, but are you considering using RMAN as a part of your
plans?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

What is the backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3 on
Solaris?
We are using Legato products and they have NetWorker Module for Oracle and
NetWorker  Module for SAP on Oracle.
Which one is better?

Thanks,


Roger Xu
Database Administrator
Dr Pepper Bottling Company of Texas
(972)721-8337



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RE: backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3

2003-04-01 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Roger
   We don't run SAP, but are you considering using RMAN as a part of your
plans?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

What is the backup strategy for a database over 1 TB running SAP R/3 on
Solaris?
We are using Legato products and they have NetWorker Module for Oracle and
NetWorker  Module for SAP on Oracle.
Which one is better?

Thanks,


Roger Xu
Database Administrator
Dr Pepper Bottling Company of Texas
(972)721-8337



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan
service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working
around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com

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RE: Backup Strategy

2003-03-17 Thread Jack van Zanen

Good one. :-)


Jack

-Original Message-
Sent: maandag 17 maart 2003 11:29
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


So what are you doing this afternoon after you have mastered the SQL Server
gui this morning?

-Original Message-
Sent: 15 March 2003 09:44
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I put them on

http://www.vanzanen.com/rman.zip

They are oracle 8.0 (if memory serves me right) so they won't work with 9i.
I'll see if I can find the time to do the same for 9i one of these days
(have to learn SQL Server first)

Jack

-Original Message-
Sent: vrijdag 14 maart 2003 20:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have found Joe Testa's site has a good set of RMAN scripts (I think they
came from Jack van Zanen off this list), quite simple but they give the
syntax for most of the commands you will want
The link was http://www.oracle-dba.com but that is no longer working

Where have you put them Joe??

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 14 March 2003 16:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jay
If you want a good book to get up to speed on RMAN, buy
Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery by Robert Freeman and Matthew Hart
 
If you want to compare the steps for various recovery scenarios between RMAN
and user-managed recovery, get Oracle Backup & Recovery 101 by Smith and
Haisley. It has you create a small test database and then run various backup
and recovery steps for various types of failures and recoveries.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Dear All, 

Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup (using
RMAN) for our 
forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this? 

I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo Log
member failure, 
using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS. 

TIA . 

Best Regards
Jai

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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To REMOVE your

RE: Backup Strategy

2003-03-17 Thread Hallas, John, Tech Dev

So what are you doing this afternoon after you have mastered the SQL Server gui this 
morning?

-Original Message-
Sent: 15 March 2003 09:44
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I put them on

http://www.vanzanen.com/rman.zip

They are oracle 8.0 (if memory serves me right) so they won't work with 9i.
I'll see if I can find the time to do the same for 9i one of these days
(have to learn SQL Server first)

Jack

-Original Message-
Sent: vrijdag 14 maart 2003 20:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have found Joe Testa's site has a good set of RMAN scripts (I think they
came from Jack van Zanen off this list), quite simple but they give the
syntax for most of the commands you will want
The link was http://www.oracle-dba.com but that is no longer working

Where have you put them Joe??

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 14 March 2003 16:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jay
If you want a good book to get up to speed on RMAN, buy
Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery by Robert Freeman and Matthew Hart
 
If you want to compare the steps for various recovery scenarios between RMAN
and user-managed recovery, get Oracle Backup & Recovery 101 by Smith and
Haisley. It has you create a small test database and then run various backup
and recovery steps for various types of failures and recoveries.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Dear All, 

Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup (using
RMAN) for our 
forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this? 

I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo Log
member failure, 
using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS. 

TIA . 

Best Regards
Jai

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
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RE: Backup Strategy

2003-03-15 Thread Jack van Zanen

I put them on

http://www.vanzanen.com/rman.zip

They are oracle 8.0 (if memory serves me right) so they won't work with 9i.
I'll see if I can find the time to do the same for 9i one of these days
(have to learn SQL Server first)

Jack

-Original Message-
Sent: vrijdag 14 maart 2003 20:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have found Joe Testa's site has a good set of RMAN scripts (I think they
came from Jack van Zanen off this list), quite simple but they give the
syntax for most of the commands you will want
The link was http://www.oracle-dba.com but that is no longer working

Where have you put them Joe??

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 14 March 2003 16:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jay
If you want a good book to get up to speed on RMAN, buy
Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery by Robert Freeman and Matthew Hart
 
If you want to compare the steps for various recovery scenarios between RMAN
and user-managed recovery, get Oracle Backup & Recovery 101 by Smith and
Haisley. It has you create a small test database and then run various backup
and recovery steps for various types of failures and recoveries.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Dear All, 

Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup (using
RMAN) for our 
forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this? 

I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo Log
member failure, 
using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS. 

TIA . 

Best Regards
Jai

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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RE: Backup Strategy

2003-03-14 Thread Hallas, John, Tech Dev

I have found Joe Testa's site has a good set of RMAN scripts (I think they came from 
Jack van Zanen off this list), quite simple but they give the syntax for most of the 
commands you will want
The link was http://www.oracle-dba.com but that is no longer working

Where have you put them Joe??

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 14 March 2003 16:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jay
If you want a good book to get up to speed on RMAN, buy
Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery by Robert Freeman and Matthew Hart
 
If you want to compare the steps for various recovery scenarios between RMAN
and user-managed recovery, get Oracle Backup & Recovery 101 by Smith and
Haisley. It has you create a small test database and then run various backup
and recovery steps for various types of failures and recoveries.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Dear All, 

Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup (using
RMAN) for our 
forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this? 

I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo Log
member failure, 
using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS. 

TIA . 

Best Regards
Jai

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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RE: Backup Strategy

2003-03-14 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Jay
If you want a good book to get up to speed on RMAN, buy
Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery by Robert Freeman and Matthew Hart
 
If you want to compare the steps for various recovery scenarios between RMAN
and user-managed recovery, get Oracle Backup & Recovery 101 by Smith and
Haisley. It has you create a small test database and then run various backup
and recovery steps for various types of failures and recoveries.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Dear All, 

Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup (using
RMAN) for our 
forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this? 

I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo Log
member failure, 
using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS. 

TIA . 

Best Regards
Jai

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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Re: Backup Strategy

2003-03-14 Thread Chuck Hamilton

Post a message to the list where they can be found when your ready. I'd like
to take a look at them.

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 6:53 AM


> Jay, I've got pretty much a common framework written in unix shell
> scripts to do most backup/restores for RMAN.  I'm finishing up the front
> end(text menus for unix) but the back end scripts are pretty much
> solid.  I'll be releasing the whole thing under GPL(for those of you who
> don't know what that is, look for gnu public license) in hopefully 2
> weeks but if you want the in-progress working copy, let me know.
>
> joe
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup
> > (using RMAN) for our
> > forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this?
> >
> > I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo
> > Log member failure,
> > using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS.
> >
> > TIA .
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Jai
>
>
> --
> Joseph S Testa
> Chief Technology Officer
> Data Management Consulting
> 614-791-9000
> It's all about the "CACHE"
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Joe Testa
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Backup Strategy

2003-03-14 Thread Joe Testa

Jay, I've got pretty much a common framework written in unix shell 
scripts to do most backup/restores for RMAN.  I'm finishing up the front 
end(text menus for unix) but the back end scripts are pretty much 
solid.  I'll be releasing the whole thing under GPL(for those of you who 
don't know what that is, look for gnu public license) in hopefully 2 
weeks but if you want the in-progress working copy, let me know.

joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dear All,

Iam entitled the responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup 
(using RMAN) for our
forthcoming data centre operations. Could someone help me on this?

I would also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo 
Log member failure,
using RMAN and the traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS.

TIA .

Best Regards
Jai 


--
Joseph S Testa
Chief Technology Officer
Data Management Consulting
614-791-9000
It's all about the "CACHE"
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Backup Strategy

2003-03-14 Thread Jack van Zanen




1.    I suggest U buy the 
book on RMAN by I believe O'Reilly & Backup & Recovery by Rama 
Velpuri
2.    Come up with a list of all 
possible failures/crashes
3.    Document a recovery scenario for 
all points 
4.    TEST Them.
 
 
Redo 
log member failure. How do you see that??  It should be OK because it is 
just a member of a group so you have at least one more that is 
OK.
 
 
Jack
 

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: vrijdag 14 maart 2003 
  9:54To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  Backup StrategyDear 
  All, Iam entitled the 
  responsibility to come out with a plan for Backup (using RMAN) for our 
  forthcoming data centre operations. Could 
  someone help me on this? I would 
  also like to know the steps for Recovery in the case of a Redo Log member 
  failure, using RMAN and the 
  traditional Recovery commands from SQLPLUS. TIA . Best 
  RegardsJai

RE: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Nat
Just a plug for always testing your backups, regardless of whether you
are doing hot or cold. We do cold backups, and we test them from time to
time by restoring them on a test system so the developers have some data to
test against. Several times over the years we've found that a file was being
skipped on the backup due to an oversight on the people side, or some other
issue that developed over time and impacted the backup process. Right now I
am both using RMAN and cold backups simply because I haven't had time to
complete the qualification process to finally say absolutely that our RMAN
backups will recover us from any situation. Just that this has been a lower
priority than all the other tasks.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:52 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

No we do trust our hot backups. Our databases are mostly idle during early
ours of Sunday between 12 AM - 1 AM.
So we thought  lets go for a cold backup on weekends.
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:28 PM

> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Nat wrote:
>
> > We use EMC/EDM bcv splits to do a hot backup every night. We shutdown
our
> > database once a week for half an hour for cold bcv splits. So far it has
> > worked very well.
>
> Just curious, why do you do a cold backup weekly?  Do you not trust
> your hot backups?
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > > I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you
are
> > > running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your
backup
> > > strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all,
and
> > > if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an
> > important
> > > part of your backup/recovery strategy?
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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RE: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Miller, Jay


On our larger database we do exports of some of the smaller users which also
have frequent changes.  
I wish I had some of the larger tables also, it would have saved a big
headache last week getting one table restored (7 days to get the files
restored from tape, 1.5 hours to modify the control trace file, do a partial
recovery, export the table, and import it).

Jay Miller

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 2:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well I just happen to know of this great Oracle Press RMAN book due out in
October!

RF

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert - My info:

Oracle 8.1.7 E.E.
Largest DB is 900gb
Hot Backups 2x week
Cold Backups 1x month
Export Backups 1x week on selective schemas

I do export backups for creation of test db's, recover data validation
blunders, i.e. single object restores.

Future plans are RMAN, RMAN, RMAN on 9i.  I need incremental backups fast :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/20/02 10:53AM >>>
Robert,

I don't do exports of our large production systems mainly due to the
fact
that I'd have to export them to tape and getting that much quite time, so as
not
to bump in to an ORA-01555 or have someone else hit a rollback segment
issue, is
impossible.  Consequently two hot backups a week are the norm around here &
we
guard out archived redo logs very well.

Now I do take exports of selected tables before they get modified or
mass
changed so that we have a point in time to go back to if all hell breaks
loose.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   9/20/2002 6:13 AM

I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an important
part of your backup/recovery strategy?


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!

The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Freeman, Robert
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RE: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Freeman, Robert


Well I just happen to know of this great Oracle Press RMAN book due out in
October!

RF

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert - My info:

Oracle 8.1.7 E.E.
Largest DB is 900gb
Hot Backups 2x week
Cold Backups 1x month
Export Backups 1x week on selective schemas

I do export backups for creation of test db's, recover data validation
blunders, i.e. single object restores.

Future plans are RMAN, RMAN, RMAN on 9i.  I need incremental backups fast :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/20/02 10:53AM >>>
Robert,

I don't do exports of our large production systems mainly due to the
fact
that I'd have to export them to tape and getting that much quite time, so as
not
to bump in to an ORA-01555 or have someone else hit a rollback segment
issue, is
impossible.  Consequently two hot backups a week are the norm around here &
we
guard out archived redo logs very well.

Now I do take exports of selected tables before they get modified or
mass
changed so that we have a point in time to go back to if all hell breaks
loose.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   9/20/2002 6:13 AM

I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an important
part of your backup/recovery strategy?


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!

The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Freeman, Robert
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Re: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Nat


No we do trust our hot backups. Our databases are mostly idle during early
ours of Sunday between 12 AM - 1 AM.
So we thought  lets go for a cold backup on weekends.
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:28 PM


> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Nat wrote:
>
> > We use EMC/EDM bcv splits to do a hot backup every night. We shutdown
our
> > database once a week for half an hour for cold bcv splits. So far it has
> > worked very well.
>
> Just curious, why do you do a cold backup weekly?  Do you not trust
> your hot backups?
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > > I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you
are
> > > running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your
backup
> > > strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all,
and
> > > if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an
> > important
> > > part of your backup/recovery strategy?
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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>
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Re: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Jeremiah Wilton

On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Nat wrote:

> We use EMC/EDM bcv splits to do a hot backup every night. We shutdown our
> database once a week for half an hour for cold bcv splits. So far it has
> worked very well.

Just curious, why do you do a cold backup weekly?  Do you not trust
your hot backups?

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

> - Original Message -
> 
> > I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
> > running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
> > strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
> > if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an
> important
> > part of your backup/recovery strategy?

-- 
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-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS


Robert
   I don't think a full export has a place since your largest tables are
probably too large to reimport in a reasonable amount of time. I like Jay's
suggestion though. But your original question wasn't about a full export,
you just said export. My answer is a definite "yes". Following Pareto's rule
(80/20), of the hundreds of tables, most will be relatively small, where
import would be feasible. I find that developers often need to tinker with
small codes tables, for example. Since they don't want to write a screen for
an infrequent task, there is a higher-than-average chance they will bollix
the table. Being able to quickly produce a week-old copy of the table can be
a real butt-saver. And a heck of a lot easier to do from an export than a
TSPITR. I also try to impress on the developers that before they monkey with
a table to ask me to do a special export, and that gives me the chance to
innocently ask what they are up to.
   Previously I did exports of large tables because that checked each block,
but with RMAN, that is not necessary.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:13 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an important
part of your backup/recovery strategy?


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!

The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Freeman, Robert
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RE: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Jenner Mike


An export with data will probably cause more headaches than it solves in
large DBs.

A logical export without data will also have limited use. It is quick to do
and small but I suggest may be invaluable for various tasks. 

Mike Jenner
Database Administrator

-Original Message-
Sent: 20 September 2002 15:53
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert,

I don't do exports of our large production systems mainly due to the
fact
that I'd have to export them to tape and getting that much quite time, so as
not
to bump in to an ORA-01555 or have someone else hit a rollback segment
issue, is
impossible.  Consequently two hot backups a week are the norm around here &
we
guard out archived redo logs very well.

Now I do take exports of selected tables before they get modified or
mass
changed so that we have a point in time to go back to if all hell breaks
loose.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   9/20/2002 6:13 AM

I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an important
part of your backup/recovery strategy?


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!

The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Freeman, Robert
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Re: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Nat


Our db size is around 350Gig.  We have stopped full logical exports since
our database size has  grown above 200 Gigs.
It is just not feasible for us to do the full exports anymore, time it takes
to export is too much.

We use EMC/EDM bcv splits to do a hot backup every night. We shutdown our
database once a week for half an hour for cold bcv splits. So far it has
worked very well.  So we do not feel  logical exports an important part of
our backup/recovery strategy.


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:13 AM


> I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
> running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
> strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
> if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an
important
> part of your backup/recovery strategy?
>
>
> Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
> Oracle Database Architect
> CSX Midtier Database Administration
> Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!
>
> The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Freeman, Robert
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
-- 
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-- 
Author: Nat
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Backup Strategy - Informal Survey

2002-09-20 Thread Jay Hostetter


I do nightly exports of my large databases with ROWS=N.  This way I can restore users, 
grants, indexes, table definitions, etc.



Jay Hostetter
Oracle DBA
D. & E. Communications
Ephrata, PA  USA

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/20/02 10:13AM >>>
I'd like to pose a question to you all and get your response. If you are
running a database that is larger than 250GB, what place in your backup
strategy does a logical export have? Do you do logical exports at all, and
if so with what frequency? Do you feel that logical exports are an important
part of your backup/recovery strategy?


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!

The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.




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Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Igor Neyman

e doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> > > Oracle8
> > >  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> > > directory
> > >  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The
> other
> > > option
> > >  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> > > require a
> > >  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on
your
> > > Oracle
> > >  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or
> RMAN
> > >
> > >  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> > > will need
> > >  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> > > Legato
> > >  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> > > supported
> > >  to be used with this tool.
> > >
> > >  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the
> ocopy
> > >
> > >  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> > > back up.
> > >  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not
allow
> > > files in
> > >  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle
> provides
> > > to
> > >  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY
> cannot
> > > copy
> > >  files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy
or
> a
> > >  similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required.
> > >
> > >  OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT
> COPY
> > > is a
> > >  closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or
"corrupt."
> > > Ocopy
> > >  opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and
> > > FILE_SHARE_WRITE
> > >  flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup.
> > >  Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo
> > > during
> > >  recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it
> > > wants to
> > >  prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 01/24/02 01:05 PM
> > > Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > cc:
> > > Subject:Re: Backup Strategy
> > >
> > >
> > > I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not
> > > very
> > > accurate, at least in one issue.
> > > i.e., it states :
> > > < quote>
> > > The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
> > > database. It cannot be used to make a
> > > hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually
> > > result
> > > in an error message being generated
> > > as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is
running
> > > and
> > > thus the database files are locked by
> > > the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
> > > locked.
> > > < /quote>
> > >
> > > Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> > > I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it
> works
> > > fine.
> > >
> > > Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have
time
> > > to
> > > read it all.
> > >
> > > Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > >  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
> > > >
> > > > Go here and get the paper.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Venkat
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
> > > >  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> > >

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Grabowy, Chris

copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags
> since it  wants to  prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking
> place.
> 
>
> I don't think, it's very accurate, and here is why:
> When during online backup I run "NT copy" against db file, the file is
> already opened by Oracle (at moment, when I "open" the database).
> So, even if "NT copy" opens file without FILE_SHARE_READ and
> FILE_SHARE_WRITE  flags, all it means is that "Subsequent open operations
on
> the object will fail" (quote from NT docs).  I want you to notice, it says
> "Subsequent open operations" not "Subsequent write/read operations".  So,
> all it does is prohibiting some other program/process from "opening" the
> file.  But Oracle, as I mentioned, has this file already opened, and it is
> perfectly capable of reading/writing this file.
> Of course, the image of the saved file will be "fuzzy", and that's why
when
> recovering from online backup we are applying archived RedoLog files
(which
> getting written much more intensely during online backup).
>
> As for Peter McLarty note, that  he "never knew that NT copy could manage
> keeping the CSN number in sync",
> well it ("NT Copy") does not have to (neither does "Oracle Ocopy") keep
CSN
> number in sync.
> Oracle updates file header with checkpoint SCN, when we issue "alter
> tablespace  begin backup".  Then until "alter tablespace  end
> backup", file header will cease updating.  And SCN, written in the
beginning
> provides the info, which archived RedoLog files should be used for
recovery.
>
> Now, please correct me, if I'm wrong.
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 6:47 PM
>
>
> > > Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> > > I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it
> > works
> > > fine.
> >
> > Igor, you sure about that?
> >
> > There are backup packages (such as Backup Exec ) that use their
> > own file open copy program to avoid using copy.exe.
> >
> > Have you restored any of these backups made with copy?
> >
> > Jared
> >
> > Note:139327.1
> > Subject:
> >  Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
> >  OCOPY When Doing Backups
> >
> > Creation Date:03-APR-2001
> > Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001
> >
> >  PURPOSE
> >A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy"
commnad,
> > and
> >the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online
> > backup?
> >
> >  SCOPE & APPLICATION
> >DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.
> >
> >  The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing
> > Backups:
> >
> >
>

> >
> >  When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY
command,
> > or the
> >  Oracle OCOPY command?
> >
> >  While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> > Oracle8
> >  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> > directory
> >  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The
other
> > option
> >  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> > require a
> >  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your
> > Oracle
> >  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or
RMAN
> >
> >  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> > will need
> >  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> > Legato
> >  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> > supported
> >  to be used with this tool.
> >
> >  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the
ocopy
> >
> >  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> > back up.
> >  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow
> > files in
> >  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle
provides
> > to
> >  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY
cannot
> > copy
> >

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Johnston, Tim

ned by Oracle (at moment, when I "open" the database).
> So, even if "NT copy" opens file without FILE_SHARE_READ and
> FILE_SHARE_WRITE  flags, all it means is that "Subsequent open operations
on
> the object will fail" (quote from NT docs).  I want you to notice, it says
> "Subsequent open operations" not "Subsequent write/read operations".  So,
> all it does is prohibiting some other program/process from "opening" the
> file.  But Oracle, as I mentioned, has this file already opened, and it is
> perfectly capable of reading/writing this file.
> Of course, the image of the saved file will be "fuzzy", and that's why
when
> recovering from online backup we are applying archived RedoLog files
(which
> getting written much more intensely during online backup).
>
> As for Peter McLarty note, that  he "never knew that NT copy could manage
> keeping the CSN number in sync",
> well it ("NT Copy") does not have to (neither does "Oracle Ocopy") keep
CSN
> number in sync.
> Oracle updates file header with checkpoint SCN, when we issue "alter
> tablespace  begin backup".  Then until "alter tablespace  end
> backup", file header will cease updating.  And SCN, written in the
beginning
> provides the info, which archived RedoLog files should be used for
recovery.
>
> Now, please correct me, if I'm wrong.
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 6:47 PM
>
>
> > > Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> > > I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it
> > works
> > > fine.
> >
> > Igor, you sure about that?
> >
> > There are backup packages (such as Backup Exec ) that use their
> > own file open copy program to avoid using copy.exe.
> >
> > Have you restored any of these backups made with copy?
> >
> > Jared
> >
> > Note:139327.1
> > Subject:
> >  Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
> >  OCOPY When Doing Backups
> >
> > Creation Date:03-APR-2001
> > Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001
> >
> >  PURPOSE
> >A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy"
commnad,
> > and
> >the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online
> > backup?
> >
> >  SCOPE & APPLICATION
> >DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.
> >
> >  The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing
> > Backups:
> >
> >
>

> >
> >  When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY
command,
> > or the
> >  Oracle OCOPY command?
> >
> >  While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> > Oracle8
> >  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> > directory
> >  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The
other
> > option
> >  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> > require a
> >  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your
> > Oracle
> >  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or
RMAN
> >
> >  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> > will need
> >  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> > Legato
> >  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> > supported
> >  to be used with this tool.
> >
> >  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the
ocopy
> >
> >  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> > back up.
> >  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow
> > files in
> >  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle
provides
> > to
> >  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY
cannot
> > copy
> >  files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or
a
> >  similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required.
> >
> >  OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT
COPY
> > is a
> >  closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy&qu

Re: Backup Strategy (NT)

2002-01-25 Thread Eric D. Pierce

(fwding in case TBC's "cc:" doesn't make it to the list.)

--- Forwarded message follows ---
Date sent:  Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:12:11 -0800 (PST)
025
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copies to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I gave the right advice for the wrong reasons.  My bad. I'll 
revise the next release of the paper and credit you -- thanks.  

Here's the word from Oracle Support:

Doc ID:  Note:139327.1 

The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When 
Doing Backups:  

==
==

When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT 
COPY
command, or the Oracle OCOPY command?

While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7
 EBU, or Oracle8 (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you
 could copy to a backup directory on the hard drive but cannot
 use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The other option if you do
 not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
 require a lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with
 Oracle. Depending on your Oracle version, the distribution
 includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or RMAN (Oracle8 and
 later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You will
 need to use a media management product to move the data from
 RMAN to tape. Legato Storage Manager is provided however
 there are other products that are supported to be used with
 this tool.  

To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by
 Oracle, the ocopy command. Utilities like the NT commands
 copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to back up. The Windows NT feature
 to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow files in use
 to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle
 provides to copy the open database files to another disk
 location. Since OCOPY cannot copy files directly to tape, you
 will then need to use NT Backup or copy or a similar utility
 to copy the files to tape, as required.  

OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running.
 The NT COPY is a closed copy and the files may be marked
 either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt." Ocopy opens the file using
 CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and FILE_SHARE_WRITE
 flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the
 backup.  Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by
 applying archived redo during recovery. The 'copy' command
 from NT doesn't use these flags since it wants to prevent
 writes to the file while the copy is taking place.  

REFERENCES
  [NOTE:41946.1] NT Online Backups 
  Oracle Backup and Recovery Guide

--- "Eric D. Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> fyi: 
> 
> On 25 Jan 2002 at 1:05, Oracle RDBMS Community Forum 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > ------
> > 
> >  From: "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:14:25 -0500
> >  Subject: Re: Backup Strategy
> > 
> > I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's
> not
> > very accurate, at least in one issue. i.e., it states : < quote>
> The
> > Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
> database.
> > It cannot be used to make a hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot
> backup
> > with COPY will usually result in an error message being generated
> as the
> > COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running
> and thus
> > the database files are locked by the Oracle database process, and
> COPY
> > cannot work on a file that is so locked. < /quote>
> > 
> > Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> > I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it
> works
> > fine.
> > 
> > Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have
> time
> > to read it all.
> > 
> > Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM
> > 
> > 
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > >  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
> > >
> > > Go here and get the paper.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Venkat
> > > --
> > 
> 
> 

=
Thomas B. Cox "Saepe in errore sed numquam in dubito"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the 
populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to 
safety) by menacing it with an endless series of 
hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.&q

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Igor Neyman

 sync",
> well it ("NT Copy") does not have to (neither does "Oracle Ocopy") keep
CSN
> number in sync.
> Oracle updates file header with checkpoint SCN, when we issue "alter
> tablespace  begin backup".  Then until "alter tablespace  end
> backup", file header will cease updating.  And SCN, written in the
beginning
> provides the info, which archived RedoLog files should be used for
recovery.
>
> Now, please correct me, if I'm wrong.
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 6:47 PM
>
>
> > > Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> > > I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it
> > works
> > > fine.
> >
> > Igor, you sure about that?
> >
> > There are backup packages (such as Backup Exec ) that use their
> > own file open copy program to avoid using copy.exe.
> >
> > Have you restored any of these backups made with copy?
> >
> > Jared
> >
> > Note:139327.1
> > Subject:
> >  Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
> >  OCOPY When Doing Backups
> >
> > Creation Date:03-APR-2001
> > Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001
> >
> >  PURPOSE
> >A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy"
commnad,
> > and
> >the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online
> > backup?
> >
> >  SCOPE & APPLICATION
> >DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.
> >
> >  The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing
> > Backups:
> >
> >
>

> >
> >  When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY
command,
> > or the
> >  Oracle OCOPY command?
> >
> >  While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> > Oracle8
> >  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> > directory
> >  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The
other
> > option
> >  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> > require a
> >  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your
> > Oracle
> >  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or
RMAN
> >
> >  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> > will need
> >  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> > Legato
> >  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> > supported
> >  to be used with this tool.
> >
> >  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the
ocopy
> >
> >  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> > back up.
> >  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow
> > files in
> >  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle
provides
> > to
> >  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY
cannot
> > copy
> >  files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or
a
> >  similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required.
> >
> >  OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT
COPY
> > is a
> >  closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt."
> > Ocopy
> >  opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and
> > FILE_SHARE_WRITE
> >  flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup.
> >  Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo
> > during
> >  recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it
> > wants to
> >  prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 01/24/02 01:05 PM
> > Please respond to ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc:
> > Subject:Re: Backup Strategy
> >
> >
> > I took a quick look at this paper, and found right

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Grabowy, Chris

t:
>  Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
>  OCOPY When Doing Backups
>
> Creation Date:03-APR-2001
> Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001
>
>  PURPOSE
>A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy" commnad,
> and
>the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online
> backup?
>
>  SCOPE & APPLICATION
>DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.
>
>  The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing
> Backups:
>
>

>
>  When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY command,
> or the
>  Oracle OCOPY command?
>
>  While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> Oracle8
>  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> directory
>  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The other
> option
>  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> require a
>  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your
> Oracle
>  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or RMAN
>
>  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> will need
>  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> Legato
>  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> supported
>  to be used with this tool.
>
>  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the ocopy
>
>  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> back up.
>  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow
> files in
>  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle provides
> to
>  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY cannot
> copy
>  files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or a
>  similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required.
>
>  OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT COPY
> is a
>  closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt."
> Ocopy
>  opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and
> FILE_SHARE_WRITE
>  flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup.
>  Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo
> during
>  recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it
> wants to
>  prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 01/24/02 01:05 PM
> Please respond to ORACLE-L
>
>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> Subject:Re: Backup Strategy
>
>
> I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not
> very
> accurate, at least in one issue.
> i.e., it states :
> < quote>
> The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
> database. It cannot be used to make a
> hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually
> result
> in an error message being generated
> as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running
> and
> thus the database files are locked by
> the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
> locked.
> < /quote>
>
> Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
> fine.
>
> Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time
> to
> read it all.
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> >  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
> >
> > Go here and get the paper.
> >
> > Regards
> > Venkat
> > --
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
> >  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> > >If possible , I want one copy too.
> > >Bunyamin
> > >- Original Message -
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >> Can you send me one (NT backup st

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Johnston, Tim

f these backups made with copy?
>
> Jared
>
> Note:139327.1
> Subject:
>  Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
>  OCOPY When Doing Backups
>
> Creation Date:03-APR-2001
> Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001
>
>  PURPOSE
>A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy" commnad,
> and
>the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online
> backup?
>
>  SCOPE & APPLICATION
>DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.
>
>  The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing
> Backups:
>
>

>
>  When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY command,
> or the
>  Oracle OCOPY command?
>
>  While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> Oracle8
>  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> directory
>  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The other
> option
>  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> require a
>  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your
> Oracle
>  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or RMAN
>
>  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> will need
>  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> Legato
>  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> supported
>  to be used with this tool.
>
>  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the ocopy
>
>  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> back up.
>  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow
> files in
>  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle provides
> to
>  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY cannot
> copy
>  files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or a
>  similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required.
>
>  OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT COPY
> is a
>  closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt."
> Ocopy
>  opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and
> FILE_SHARE_WRITE
>  flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup.
>  Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo
> during
>  recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it
> wants to
>  prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 01/24/02 01:05 PM
> Please respond to ORACLE-L
>
>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> Subject:Re: Backup Strategy
>
>
> I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not
> very
> accurate, at least in one issue.
> i.e., it states :
> < quote>
> The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
> database. It cannot be used to make a
> hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually
> result
> in an error message being generated
> as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running
> and
> thus the database files are locked by
> the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
> locked.
> < /quote>
>
> Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
> fine.
>
> Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time
> to
> read it all.
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> >  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
> >
> > Go here and get the paper.
> >
> > Regards
> > Venkat
> > --
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
> >  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> > >If possible , I want one copy too.
> > >Bunyamin
> > >- Original Message -
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
>

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-25 Thread Igor Neyman

ed during an online
> backup?
>
>  SCOPE & APPLICATION
>DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.
>
>  The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing
> Backups:
>
>

>
>  When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY command,
> or the
>  Oracle OCOPY command?
>
>  While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or
> Oracle8
>  (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup
> directory
>  on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The other
> option
>  if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does
> require a
>  lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your
> Oracle
>  version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or RMAN
>
>  (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You
> will need
>  to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape.
> Legato
>  Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are
> supported
>  to be used with this tool.
>
>  To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the ocopy
>
>  command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to
> back up.
>  The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow
> files in
>  use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle provides
> to
>  copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY cannot
> copy
>  files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or a
>  similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required.
>
>  OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT COPY
> is a
>  closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt."
> Ocopy
>  opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and
> FILE_SHARE_WRITE
>  flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup.
>  Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo
> during
>  recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it
> wants to
>  prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 01/24/02 01:05 PM
> Please respond to ORACLE-L
>
>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> Subject:Re: Backup Strategy
>
>
> I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not
> very
> accurate, at least in one issue.
> i.e., it states :
> < quote>
> The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
> database. It cannot be used to make a
> hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually
> result
> in an error message being generated
> as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running
> and
> thus the database files are locked by
> the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
> locked.
> < /quote>
>
> Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
> fine.
>
> Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time
> to
> read it all.
>
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> >  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
> >
> > Go here and get the paper.
> >
> > Regards
> > Venkat
> > --
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
> >  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> > >If possible , I want one copy too.
> > >Bunyamin
> > >- Original Message -
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Ramesh D Papnoi
> > >> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> > >> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> > >> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
> > >>
> > >> -

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Peter . McLarty


Yeh I never knew that NT copy could manage keeping the CSN number in sync, 
oh well you live and learn :-) 


--
=
Peter McLarty   E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com
APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461
Brisbane,  AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238
Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048
=
A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.

- Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist)
=
Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision"

=







[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25/01/2002 09:45 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Fax to: 
Subject:    Re: Backup Strategy


> Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it 
works
> fine.

Igor, you sure about that?

There are backup packages (such as Backup Exec ) that use their
own file open copy program to avoid using copy.exe.

Have you restored any of these backups made with copy?

Jared

Note:139327.1
 Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
 OCOPY When Doing Backups

Creation Date:03-APR-2001
Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001

 PURPOSE
   A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy" commnad, 
and
   the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online 
backup?

 SCOPE & APPLICATION
   DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.

 The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing 
Backups:
 


 When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY command, 
or the
 Oracle OCOPY command?

 While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or 
Oracle8 
 (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup 
directory 
 on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The other 
option
 if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does 
require a 
 lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your 
Oracle 
 version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or RMAN 


 (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You 
will need
 to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape. 
Legato 
 Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are 
supported
 to be used with this tool.

 To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the ocopy 


 command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to 
back up. 
 The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow 
files in
 use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle provides 
to 
 copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY cannot 

copy 
 files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or a 
 similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required. 

 OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT COPY 

is a 
 closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt." 
Ocopy 
 opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and 
FILE_SHARE_WRITE 
 flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup. 
 Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo 
during 
 recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it 
wants to 
 prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place. 






"Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/24/02 01:05 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re: Backup Strategy


I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not 
very
accurate, at least in one issue.
i.e., it states :
< quote>
The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
database. It cannot be used to make a
hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually 
result
in an error message being generated
as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running 
and
thus the database files are locked by
the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
locked.
< /quote>

Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on ma

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Kimberly Smith


My customer is closing shop so I doubt they care.  But that being
said, they are big fans of Unix so I would have no argument from
them at all.

-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I hope your customer is not a member!!!



"Kimberly
Smith" To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
     Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
m


01/24/2002
10:35 AM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L






I have a very simple NT backup strategy.  Move the database to Unix.

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any
doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > >

> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for othe

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Johnston, Tim

Hey Igor...

You might want to check out Note: 139327.1 on Metalink...  Specifically the
part that says...

"To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the ocopy 
command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to back
up. 
The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow files
in
use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle provides to 
copy the open database files to another disk location."

And...

"OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT COPY
is a 
closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt."
Ocopy 
opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and
FILE_SHARE_WRITE 
flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup.  
Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo during 
recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it wants
to 
prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place."

HTH
Tim

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:05 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not very
accurate, at least in one issue.
i.e., it states :
< quote>
The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
database. It cannot be used to make a
hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually result
in an error message being generated
as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running and
thus the database files are locked by
the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
locked.
< /quote>

Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
fine.

Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time to
read it all.

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM

> Hi All,
>
>  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
>
> Go here and get the paper.
>
> Regards
> Venkat
> --
>
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
>  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> >If possible , I want one copy too.
> >Bunyamin
> >- Original Message -
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
> >
> >
> >> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ramesh D Papnoi
> >> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> >> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> >> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
> >>
> >> -- Original Text --
> >>
> >> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >>
> >> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
> >>
> >> grace wrote:
> >> >
> >> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> >> > thanks
> >> >
> >> > - Original Message -
> >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >> >
> >> > > Hello Hamid
> >> > >
> >> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> >> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> >> > >
> >> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hamid,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> >> > > > this paper?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Ross Mohan
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >>

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Sujatha Madan


I thought that you have to use the OCOPY command (not normal COPY) in a
Windows environment to copy files in hotbackup mode. 

Correct me if I am wrong as I am not 100% certain about hot backups in a
Windows environment.



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2002 8:05 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not very
accurate, at least in one issue.
i.e., it states :
< quote>
The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
database. It cannot be used to make a
hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually result
in an error message being generated
as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running and
thus the database files are locked by
the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
locked.
< /quote>

Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
fine.

Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time to
read it all.

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM


> Hi All,
>
>  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
>
> Go here and get the paper.
>
> Regards
> Venkat
> --
>
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
>  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> >If possible , I want one copy too.
> >Bunyamin
> >- Original Message -
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
> >
> >
> >> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ramesh D Papnoi
> >> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> >> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> >> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
> >>
> >> -- Original Text --
> >>
> >> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >>
> >> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
> >>
> >> grace wrote:
> >> >
> >> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> >> > thanks
> >> >
> >> > - Original Message -
> >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >> >
> >> > > Hello Hamid
> >> > >
> >> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> >> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> >> > >
> >> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hamid,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> >> > > > this paper?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Ross Mohan
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi List,
> >> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> >> > looking
> >> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any
doc
> >or
> >> > > > link
> >> > > > I realy appreciate.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hamid Alavi
> >> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> >> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> >> > intended
> >> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
> >addressed,
>

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Jared . Still

> Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
> I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it 
works
> fine.

Igor, you sure about that?

There are backup packages (such as Backup Exec ) that use their
own file open copy program to avoid using copy.exe.

Have you restored any of these backups made with copy?

Jared

Note:139327.1
 Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle
 OCOPY When Doing Backups

Creation Date:03-APR-2001
Last Revision Date:   04-DEC-2001

 PURPOSE
   A comparison of the differences between the Windows NT "copy" commnad, 
and
   the Oracle "ocopy" command.  Which should be used during an online 
backup?

 SCOPE & APPLICATION
   DBAs with databases on the Windows NT platform.

 The Differences between Windows NT COPY and Oracle OCOPY When Doing 
Backups:

 When doing an online backup, should you use the Windows NT COPY command, 
or the
 Oracle OCOPY command?

 While doing online backups you should use OCOPY, or Oracle7 EBU, or 
Oracle8 
 (and later) RMAN.  With the OCOPY command you could copy to a backup 
directory 
 on the hard drive but cannot use OCOPY to copy a file to tape. The other 
option
 if you do not want to use ocopy to perform your backup as this does 
require a 
 lot of disk space is EBU/RMAN that comes with Oracle. Depending on your 
Oracle 
 version, the distribution includes a utility called EBU (Oracle7) or RMAN 

 (Oracle8 and later) that can be used for online recovery as well. You 
will need
 to use a media management product to move the data from RMAN to tape. 
Legato 
 Storage Manager is provided however there are other products that are 
supported
 to be used with this tool.

 To backup you will need to use the utility delivered by Oracle, the ocopy 

 command. Utilities like the NT commands copy, xcopy CANNOT be used to 
back up. 
 The Windows NT feature to be aware of is that NT Backup does not allow 
files in
 use to be copied, so you must use the OCOPY utility that Oracle provides 
to 
 copy the open database files to another disk location. Since OCOPY cannot 
copy 
 files directly to tape, you will then need to use NT Backup or copy or a 
 similar utility to copy the files to tape, as required. 

 OCOPY allows writing to continue while the backup is running. The NT COPY 
is a 
 closed copy and the files may be marked either as "fuzzy" or "corrupt." 
Ocopy 
 opens the file using CreateFile() with the FILE_SHARE_READ and 
FILE_SHARE_WRITE 
 flags. This allows writing to continue while we take the backup. 
 Inconsistencies in the backup are repaired by applying archived redo 
during 
 recovery. The 'copy' command from NT doesn't use these flags since it 
wants to 
 prevent writes to the file while the copy is taking place. 

"Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/24/02 01:05 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re: Backup Strategy

I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not 
very
accurate, at least in one issue.
i.e., it states :
< quote>
The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
database. It cannot be used to make a
hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually 
result
in an error message being generated
as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running 
and
thus the database files are locked by
the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
locked.
< /quote>

Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
fine.

Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time 
to
read it all.

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM

> Hi All,
>
>  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
>
> Go here and get the paper.
>
> Regards
> Venkat
> --
>
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
>  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> >If possible , I want one copy too.
> >Bunyamin
> >- Original Message -
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
> >
> >
> >> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ramesh D Papnoi
> >> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> >> (BrainBench & Brainb

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Igor Neyman


I took a quick look at this paper, and found right away, that it's not very
accurate, at least in one issue.
i.e., it states :
< quote>
The Windows NT command COPY can be used to create a cold backup of a
database. It cannot be used to make a
hot backup. Attempting to perform a hot backup with COPY will usually result
in an error message being generated
as the COPY command fails - during a hot backup the database is running and
thus the database files are locked by
the Oracle database process, and COPY cannot work on a file that is so
locked.
< /quote>

Wrong. NT 'COPY' has no problems copying 'opened' oracle db files.
I'm using it in 'hot backup' scripts on many dozens systems, and it works
fine.

Don't know about the accuracy of the rest of the paper, didn't have time to
read it all.

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:35 AM


> Hi All,
>
>  http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/
>
> Go here and get the paper.
>
> Regards
> Venkat
> --
>
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17
>  Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
> >If possible , I want one copy too.
> >Bunyamin
> >- Original Message -
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
> >
> >
> >> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ramesh D Papnoi
> >> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> >> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> >> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
> >>
> >> -- Original Text --
> >>
> >> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >>
> >> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
> >>
> >> grace wrote:
> >> >
> >> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> >> > thanks
> >> >
> >> > - Original Message -
> >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >> >
> >> > > Hello Hamid
> >> > >
> >> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> >> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> >> > >
> >> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hamid,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> >> > > > this paper?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Ross Mohan
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> >> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi List,
> >> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> >> > looking
> >> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any
doc
> >or
> >> > > > link
> >> > > > I realy appreciate.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hamid Alavi
> >> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> >> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> >> > intended
> >> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
> >addressed,
> >> > and
> >> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and
exempt
> >from
> >> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this
message
> >in
> >> > > > error,
> >> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distribu

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread JoJo Al-Zawawi

Now you're really stretching it!  :D

--JoJo

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>JoJo --
>
>Sure, but be aware that Unix abaci are better than NT abaci.
>
don't forget the VMS abaci.;-)
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: JoJo Al-Zawawi
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Henry Poras

You can count on it.

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>JoJo --
>
>Sure, but be aware that Unix abaci are better than NT abaci.
>
don't forget the VMS abaci.;-)

-- 
--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.

When you want to test the depths of a stream, don't use both feet.   -
Chinese Proverb 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: bill thater
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Henry Poras
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread bill thater

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>JoJo --
>
>Sure, but be aware that Unix abaci are better than NT abaci.
>
don't forget the VMS abaci.;-)

-- 
--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.

When you want to test the depths of a stream, don't use both feet.   - Chinese Proverb 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: bill thater
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Bellows, Bambi


JoJo --

Sure, but be aware that Unix abaci are better than NT abaci.

HTH,
Bambi.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:56 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

They all suck!  Let's go back to using the abacus.

Hahaha!
--JoJo


-Original Message-
Thomas F
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Another NT-bigot!   Let's not get started on THIS again!  :)


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have a very simple NT backup strategy.  Move the database to Unix.

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author:

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread JoJo Al-Zawawi


They all suck!  Let's go back to using the abacus.

Hahaha!
--JoJo


-Original Message-
Thomas F
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Another NT-bigot!   Let's not get started on THIS again!  :)


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have a very simple NT backup strategy.  Move the database to Unix.

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, Cali

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F


Another NT-bigot!   Let's not get started on THIS again!  :)


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have a very simple NT backup strategy.  Move the database to Unix.

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Rick_Cale



I hope your customer is not a member!!!


   
  
"Kimberly  
  
Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
     Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
  
Sent by:   
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
m  
  
   
  
   
  
01/24/2002 
  
10:35 AM   
  
Please respond 
  
to ORACLE-L
  
   
  
   
  




I have a very simple NT backup strategy.  Move the database to Unix.

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any
doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distribu

RE: Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Nick Wagner

Title: RE: Re: Backup Strategy





here is a pretty good one as well...  The paper is on building a 24x7 database. 


http://www.quest.com/whitepapers/Building_WP.pdf




-Original Message-
From: Jan Pruner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 6:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Fwd: Re: Backup Strategy



http://www.stormgt.org/white.html


JP


On Thursday 17 January 2002 18:26, you wrote:
> Hi List,
> I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am looking
> for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc or
> link I realy appreciate.
>
>
>
>
> Hamid Alavi
> Office 818 737-0526
> Cell    818 402-1987
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended
> only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and
> may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in
> error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
> information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and
> delete the original message from your system.


---
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jan Pruner
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Kimberly Smith


I have a very simple NT backup strategy.  Move the database to Unix.

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a

Fwd: Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Jan Pruner


http://www.stormgt.org/white.html

JP

On Thursday 17 January 2002 18:26, you wrote:
> Hi List,
> I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am looking
> for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc or
> link I realy appreciate.
>
>
>
>
> Hamid Alavi
> Office 818 737-0526
> Cell818 402-1987
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended
> only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and
> may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in
> error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
> information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and
> delete the original message from your system.

---
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jan Pruner
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Jan Pruner


http://www.sun.com/storage/white-papers/backup-planning.html

JP

On Thursday 17 January 2002 18:26, you wrote:
> Hi List,
> I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am looking
> for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc or
> link I realy appreciate.
>
>
>
>
> Hamid Alavi
> Office 818 737-0526
> Cell818 402-1987
>
> The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended
> only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and
> may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in
> error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
> information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and
> delete the original message from your system.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jan Pruner
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread C.S.Venkata Subramanian


Hi All,

 http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Go here and get the paper.

Regards
Venkat
--

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:25:17  
 Bunyamin K. Karadeniz wrote:
>If possible , I want one copy too.
>Bunyamin
>- Original Message -
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM
>
>
>> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ramesh D Papnoi
>> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
>> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
>> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>>
>> -- Original Text --
>>
>> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>>
>> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>>
>> grace wrote:
>> >
>> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
>> > thanks
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
>> >
>> > > Hello Hamid
>> > >
>> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
>> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
>> > >
>> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
>> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > >
>> > > > -Original Message-
>> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
>> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
>> > > >
>> > > > Hamid,
>> > > >
>> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
>> > > > this paper?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > >
>> > > > Ross Mohan
>> > > >
>> > > > -Original Message-
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
>> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi List,
>> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
>> > looking
>> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
>or
>> > > > link
>> > > > I realy appreciate.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Hamid Alavi
>> > > > Office 818 737-0526
>> > > > Cell818 402-1987
>> > > >
>> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
>> > intended
>> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
>addressed,
>> > and
>> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
>from
>> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
>in
>> > > > error,
>> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
>information.
>> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
>the
>> > > > original message from your system.
>> > > > --
>> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> > > > --
>> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
>> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > >
>> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>Lists
>> > > > 
>> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>> > > > --
>> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> > > > --
>> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
>> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > >
>> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Mark Leith


Why doesn't somebody get smart and post this to a web site somewhere, post
the link to the list and everybody can have a free for all?

Sounds good to me - as I wouldn't mind a copy of this myself.

Any takers? If not - send it to me and I'll post it (unlinked) on to the
cool-tools site for the list..

Cheers

Mark

-Original Message-
Karadeniz
Sent: 24 January 2002 11:25
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > --

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread Bunyamin K. Karadeniz


If possible , I want one copy too.
Bunyamin
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:30 PM


> Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)
>
> Regards,
> Ramesh D Papnoi
> Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
> (BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
> http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi
>
> -- Original Text --
>
> To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
> Please send me one. (NT) Thank,
>
> grace wrote:
> >
> > can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> > thanks
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> >
> > > Hello Hamid
> > >
> > > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> > >
> > > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > > >
> > > > Hamid,
> > > >
> > > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > > this paper?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Ross Mohan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi List,
> > > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> > looking
> > > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc
or
> > > > link
> > > > I realy appreciate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hamid Alavi
> > > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > > Cell818 402-1987
> > > >
> > > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> > intended
> > > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed,
> > and
> > > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt
from
> > > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message
in
> > > > error,
> > > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the
information.
> > > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
the
> > > > original message from your system.
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
> > > > 
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other

Re: Backup Strategy

2002-01-24 Thread rpapnoi


Can you send me one (NT backup strategy)

Regards,
Ramesh D Papnoi
Oracle DBA @ Chemtex Global Engineers Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai, India
(BrainBench & Brainbuzz Certified Oracle 8/8i DBA & Developer)
http://www22.Brinkster.com/rpapnoi

-- Original Text --

To: internet["Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Please send me one. (NT) Thank,

grace wrote:
> 
> can u also send me a copy on backup strategy on  nt.
> thanks
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:25 PM
> 
> > Hello Hamid
> >
> > I would like to have this paper as well.
> > We are now revising our Backup strategy.
> >
> > Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
> > >
> > > Hamid,
> > >
> > > Would you be willing to forward a copy of
> > > this paper?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Ross Mohan
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi List,
> > > I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am
> looking
> > > for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc or
> > > link
> > > I realy appreciate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hamid Alavi
> > > Office 818 737-0526
> > > Cell818 402-1987
> > >
> > > The information contained in this message and any attachments is
> intended
> > > only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed,
> and
> > > may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from
> > > disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in
> > > error,
> > > you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.
> > > Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the
> > > original message from your system.
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Hamid Alavi
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > > 
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > > 
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
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> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
> >

RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-22 Thread Mohan, Ross


Hamid, 

Would you be willing to forward a copy of
this paper?

Thanks, 

Ross Mohan

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi List,
I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am looking
for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc or link
I realy appreciate.




Hamid Alavi
Office 818 737-0526
Cell818 402-1987

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended
only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and
may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error,
you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.
Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the
original message from your system.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Hamid Alavi
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Backup Strategy

2002-01-17 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS


Hamid - You might consider buying the book "Oracle8i Backup and Recovery" by
Rama Velpuri, George Williams, Anand Adkoli. It is highly recommended by
everyone, myself included. I believe that it will help you design a backup
strategy that works for your system. A backup strategy will vary widely,
depending on user requirements for availability, database size, hardware
performance, etc. There is no "one size fits all". You may also want to
consider taking Oracle's Backup and Recovery class. I took that recently -
highly recommend it.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:27 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi List,
I have a white paper for Backup Strategy on Microsoft NT but I am looking
for Backup Strategy for Oracle8i on Solaris, If anybody have any doc or link
I realy appreciate.




Hamid Alavi
Office 818 737-0526
Cell818 402-1987

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended
only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and
may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error,
you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information.
Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the
original message from your system.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Hamid Alavi
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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RE: Backup strategy

2001-11-21 Thread Ron Rogers


Bing,
 Please explain your reasoning for backing up the archivelogs when you backup the 
readonly tablespaces. One reason you change a tablespace to read only is to reduce the 
backup needed. After a tablespace is in read only mode no changes are made to the data 
and you only need to back it up once and store the tape. If restoral is needed du to a 
disk failure then the backed up read only tablespace can be restored successfully. If 
you change the tablespace to read write at a future time then you need to perform a 
backup of the tablespace to reflect the change that is noted in the controlfile.
If you "backup controlfile to trace" with a tablespace in read only and then with the 
tablespace in read write you will see the differences that the controlfile tracks.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 02:25PM >>>
When you backup the read-only tablespace, you must backup the archive logs
(if any) as well.



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:11 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ya but you don't normally backup a read-only tablespace.  The
whole reason I make them read-only is to ensure that I finish
the backup this century.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:01 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My hot backup is to put one tablespace in backup mode one at a time and copy
that data file to disk and alter it back online.  No problem

Bing


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My fault, I should have said copy.  Climbing night last night so I am 
dead tired.

Thanks for the input.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,
 You can change a tablespace to read only with no problems and you should
take a backup to capture the change. Your last paragraph stated you wanted
to "move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks"
That will cause you problems if you move the datafile. You should copy the
datafile because the Oracle knows that it is located at disk-1 not disk-2.
Your users can still select from the tablespace as usual and if I remember
correctly they can truncate if they have the priviledge but not delete from.
I use the same method every 6 months. Archive older data to a read only
tablespace that contains my archive tables. 
Remember, all of the tablespaces in the datafile have to be read only.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 11:40AM >>>
Just throwing something out cause I am not sure if I am thinking correctly.
I have a database that is not using partitioning so we split each month out
into seperate tables/indexes by month and store them in their own
tablespaces.  These are kinda big so we occasionally put a tablespace into
read-only mode, shutdown the database, perform a cold backup right to tape.


Problem is, we are putting this database into ServiceGuard.  Its kind of a
big pain in the butt to shutdown a database that is running in ServiceGuard
yet still have the disks available.  So I will now have to start handling
this will the hot backup.  NOTE: not using RMAN and really don't want to.
Its not that I don't trust it, just not worth it in this environment.  

I am thinking that everything will be ok if I put the tablespace into
read-only, move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks up
during the OS backup along with a backup control file.  I should then be
able to recover this with no issues.  

Sound logical?


Kimberly Smith
GMD Fujitsu
Database Administrator
(503) 669-6050

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the offici

RE: Backup strategy

2001-11-20 Thread Wong, Bing


When you backup the read-only tablespace, you must backup the archive logs
(if any) as well.



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:11 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ya but you don't normally backup a read-only tablespace.  The
whole reason I make them read-only is to ensure that I finish
the backup this century.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:01 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My hot backup is to put one tablespace in backup mode one at a time and copy
that data file to disk and alter it back online.  No problem

Bing


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My fault, I should have said copy.  Climbing night last night so I am 
dead tired.

Thanks for the input.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,
 You can change a tablespace to read only with no problems and you should
take a backup to capture the change. Your last paragraph stated you wanted
to "move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks"
That will cause you problems if you move the datafile. You should copy the
datafile because the Oracle knows that it is located at disk-1 not disk-2.
Your users can still select from the tablespace as usual and if I remember
correctly they can truncate if they have the priviledge but not delete from.
I use the same method every 6 months. Archive older data to a read only
tablespace that contains my archive tables. 
Remember, all of the tablespaces in the datafile have to be read only.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 11:40AM >>>
Just throwing something out cause I am not sure if I am thinking correctly.
I have a database that is not using partitioning so we split each month out
into seperate tables/indexes by month and store them in their own
tablespaces.  These are kinda big so we occasionally put a tablespace into
read-only mode, shutdown the database, perform a cold backup right to tape.


Problem is, we are putting this database into ServiceGuard.  Its kind of a
big pain in the butt to shutdown a database that is running in ServiceGuard
yet still have the disks available.  So I will now have to start handling
this will the hot backup.  NOTE: not using RMAN and really don't want to.
Its not that I don't trust it, just not worth it in this environment.  

I am thinking that everything will be ok if I put the tablespace into
read-only, move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks up
during the OS backup along with a backup control file.  I should then be
able to recover this with no issues.  

Sound logical?


Kimberly Smith
GMD Fujitsu
Database Administrator
(503) 669-6050

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Backup strategy

2001-11-20 Thread Kimberly Smith


Ya but you don't normally backup a read-only tablespace.  The
whole reason I make them read-only is to ensure that I finish
the backup this century.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:01 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My hot backup is to put one tablespace in backup mode one at a time and copy
that data file to disk and alter it back online.  No problem

Bing


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My fault, I should have said copy.  Climbing night last night so I am 
dead tired.

Thanks for the input.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,
 You can change a tablespace to read only with no problems and you should
take a backup to capture the change. Your last paragraph stated you wanted
to "move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks"
That will cause you problems if you move the datafile. You should copy the
datafile because the Oracle knows that it is located at disk-1 not disk-2.
Your users can still select from the tablespace as usual and if I remember
correctly they can truncate if they have the priviledge but not delete from.
I use the same method every 6 months. Archive older data to a read only
tablespace that contains my archive tables. 
Remember, all of the tablespaces in the datafile have to be read only.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 11:40AM >>>
Just throwing something out cause I am not sure if I am thinking correctly.
I have a database that is not using partitioning so we split each month out
into seperate tables/indexes by month and store them in their own
tablespaces.  These are kinda big so we occasionally put a tablespace into
read-only mode, shutdown the database, perform a cold backup right to tape.


Problem is, we are putting this database into ServiceGuard.  Its kind of a
big pain in the butt to shutdown a database that is running in ServiceGuard
yet still have the disks available.  So I will now have to start handling
this will the hot backup.  NOTE: not using RMAN and really don't want to.
Its not that I don't trust it, just not worth it in this environment.  

I am thinking that everything will be ok if I put the tablespace into
read-only, move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks up
during the OS backup along with a backup control file.  I should then be
able to recover this with no issues.  

Sound logical?


Kimberly Smith
GMD Fujitsu
Database Administrator
(503) 669-6050

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
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RE: Backup strategy

2001-11-20 Thread Wong, Bing


My hot backup is to put one tablespace in backup mode one at a time and copy
that data file to disk and alter it back online.  No problem

Bing


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My fault, I should have said copy.  Climbing night last night so I am 
dead tired.

Thanks for the input.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,
 You can change a tablespace to read only with no problems and you should
take a backup to capture the change. Your last paragraph stated you wanted
to "move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks"
That will cause you problems if you move the datafile. You should copy the
datafile because the Oracle knows that it is located at disk-1 not disk-2.
Your users can still select from the tablespace as usual and if I remember
correctly they can truncate if they have the priviledge but not delete from.
I use the same method every 6 months. Archive older data to a read only
tablespace that contains my archive tables. 
Remember, all of the tablespaces in the datafile have to be read only.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 11:40AM >>>
Just throwing something out cause I am not sure if I am thinking correctly.
I have a database that is not using partitioning so we split each month out
into seperate tables/indexes by month and store them in their own
tablespaces.  These are kinda big so we occasionally put a tablespace into
read-only mode, shutdown the database, perform a cold backup right to tape.


Problem is, we are putting this database into ServiceGuard.  Its kind of a
big pain in the butt to shutdown a database that is running in ServiceGuard
yet still have the disks available.  So I will now have to start handling
this will the hot backup.  NOTE: not using RMAN and really don't want to.
Its not that I don't trust it, just not worth it in this environment.  

I am thinking that everything will be ok if I put the tablespace into
read-only, move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks up
during the OS backup along with a backup control file.  I should then be
able to recover this with no issues.  

Sound logical?


Kimberly Smith
GMD Fujitsu
Database Administrator
(503) 669-6050

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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-- 
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RE: Backup strategy

2001-11-20 Thread Kimberly Smith


My fault, I should have said copy.  Climbing night last night so I am 
dead tired.

Thanks for the input.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,
 You can change a tablespace to read only with no problems and you should
take a backup to capture the change. Your last paragraph stated you wanted
to "move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks"
That will cause you problems if you move the datafile. You should copy the
datafile because the Oracle knows that it is located at disk-1 not disk-2.
Your users can still select from the tablespace as usual and if I remember
correctly they can truncate if they have the priviledge but not delete from.
I use the same method every 6 months. Archive older data to a read only
tablespace that contains my archive tables. 
Remember, all of the tablespaces in the datafile have to be read only.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 11:40AM >>>
Just throwing something out cause I am not sure if I am thinking correctly.
I have a database that is not using partitioning so we split each month out
into seperate tables/indexes by month and store them in their own
tablespaces.  These are kinda big so we occasionally put a tablespace into
read-only mode, shutdown the database, perform a cold backup right to tape.


Problem is, we are putting this database into ServiceGuard.  Its kind of a
big pain in the butt to shutdown a database that is running in ServiceGuard
yet still have the disks available.  So I will now have to start handling
this will the hot backup.  NOTE: not using RMAN and really don't want to.
Its not that I don't trust it, just not worth it in this environment.  

I am thinking that everything will be ok if I put the tablespace into
read-only, move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks up
during the OS backup along with a backup control file.  I should then be
able to recover this with no issues.  

Sound logical?


Kimberly Smith
GMD Fujitsu
Database Administrator
(503) 669-6050

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Author: Kimberly Smith
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Re: Backup strategy

2001-11-20 Thread Ron Rogers


Kimberly,
 You can change a tablespace to read only with no problems and you should take a 
backup to capture the change. Your last paragraph stated you wanted to "move the 
datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks"
That will cause you problems if you move the datafile. You should copy the datafile 
because the Oracle knows that it is located at disk-1 not disk-2. Your users can still 
select from the tablespace as usual and if I remember correctly they can truncate if 
they have the priviledge but not delete from.
I use the same method every 6 months. Archive older data to a read only tablespace 
that contains my archive tables. 
Remember, all of the tablespaces in the datafile have to be read only.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/20/01 11:40AM >>>
Just throwing something out cause I am not sure if I am thinking correctly.
I have a database that is not using partitioning so we split each month out
into seperate tables/indexes by month and store them in their own
tablespaces.  These are kinda big so we occasionally put a tablespace into
read-only mode, shutdown the database, perform a cold backup right to tape.


Problem is, we are putting this database into ServiceGuard.  Its kind of a
big pain in the butt to shutdown a database that is running in ServiceGuard
yet still have the disks available.  So I will now have to start handling
this will the hot backup.  NOTE: not using RMAN and really don't want to.
Its not that I don't trust it, just not worth it in this environment.  

I am thinking that everything will be ok if I put the tablespace into
read-only, move the datafile to the disk that the tape backup picks up
during the OS backup along with a backup control file.  I should then be
able to recover this with no issues.  

Sound logical?


Kimberly Smith
GMD Fujitsu
Database Administrator
(503) 669-6050

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Rachel Carmichael


I realize you have a problem with resource utilization, but what will
cost more:  buying disks so you can keep the backups and archived logs
or losing the data because you only have a cold backup from a week ago?

Again, if you can deal with losing a day's worth of data, your cold
backups are fine. If not, then you need to be in archivelog mode and
keep the archived logs.


--- Ahmed Gholam Hussain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Rachel ,
> 
>   Thanks a lot for your response ...Here are some details :
> (1)ost of our systems are of kind OLTP.There are some heavy hours of
> data
> processing  transactions  during the business hours ( Between 2
> hours)
> 
> (2)  The issue is that our Dump files are some how too big and we
> have to
> care about resource utilization Normally we do a backup every
> weekend
> 
> 
> 
> Regards 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Monday, October 22, 2001 5:25 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:Re: Backup Strategy
> > 
> > We'd need a little more information before we can give any advice
> > (okay, this group gives advice on no information but..)
> > 
> > Some questions:
> > 
> > 1) during the business hours, do you add critical data that you
> can't
> > afford to lose to your database?  If so, you should be in
> archivelog
> > mode. The cold backups will suffice if you have the archived logs.
> > 
> > 2) cold backups (or hot backups for that matter) allow you to
> recover
> > the whole database, but if you lose a table, or accidentally delete
> > data from a single table, it is difficult to use the backups to
> > retrieve the information. If your export dump files are not too
> large
> > and you have the disk space to store them, I'd do a full database
> > export daily as well. This does two things:  allows you to recover
> a
> > single table or some of its data easily and documents the structure
> of
> > your database.
> > 
> > Rachel
> > 
> > 
> > --- Ahmed Gholam Hussain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Dear all,
> > > 
> > >I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup
> strategy...
> > > 
> > > Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not
> > > afford
> > > down times during  our business period 
> > > 
> > > Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled
> cold
> > > backup
> > > scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do
> we
> > > need to
> > > change our backup strategy ?
> > > How often do we need to make exports ?
> > > 
> > > Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards 
> > > Gholam
> > > -- 
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > -- 
> > > Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
> 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> > > Lists
> > >
> 
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
> in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
> may
> > > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> > 
> > 
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: Rachel Carmichael
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> Lists
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS


Anmed - I would encourage you to carefully research the exact reason you
can't run in archivelog mode. Besides providing up-to-the-minute recovery,
it can minimize downtime under many other failure modes.
Also, you need to discuss this with your users until everyone is
satisfied what the risk is. People react better if they are forewarned.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Kimberly ,
 
   Thanks a lot for your response .

   Due to some resource limitation , we can not afford running our database
on archive log always ...
What we are doing now is daily cold backups with weekend  based exports ...
Most of our systems are OLTP .. Are we on good track ?


Regards




> -Original Message-
> From: Kimberly Smith [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:41 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Backup Strategy
> 
> Why export at all?  As long as your database is in archive log
> mode you should be ok.  Do your cold backup to disk and always
> have the latest on disk.  That way you reduce your recover time
> by not having to go to tape for your backup.  I have all our OS
> backups scheduled to go after the backup for Oracle and that way
> I get the backup files off to tape just in case I have a really
> horrible failure.  
> 
> Make sure that your archive logs are on a different disk then your
> database files.  You increase your chance of being able to fully
> recover.
> 
> You may also want to consider running a standby database in case
> of failure during business hours.  I don't run one here but I run
> with ServiceGuard instead.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 3:50 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It will depend on how much data you can afford to lose (in terms of time)?
> 
> may be you can do
> exp at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
> Cold backup at 14
> 
> or perhaps you want to consider RMAN
> 
> 
> Sinardy
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Gholam Hussain
> Sent: Monday, 22 October 2001 6:00 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...
> 
> Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not afford
> down times during  our business period 
> 
> Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold
> backup
> scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we need to
> change our backup strategy ?
> How often do we need to make exports ?
> 
> Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...
> 
> 
> 
> Regards 
> Gholam
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Sinard Xing
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Kimberly Smith
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
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> the message BODY,

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Kimberly Smith


If you don't need to do a point-in-time recover then your ok.  However,
if you have data that changes in between backups or exports you will lose
data.  You are running a risky setup without archive logs.  I would fight 
like cats and dogs to get the recourses you need or make sure your SLA
does not specify the ability for complete recover (of data that is).

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 11:25 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Kimberly ,
 
   Thanks a lot for your response .

   Due to some resource limitation , we can not afford running our database
on archive log always ...
What we are doing now is daily cold backups with weekend  based exports ...
Most of our systems are OLTP .. Are we on good track ?


Regards




> -Original Message-
> From: Kimberly Smith [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:41 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Backup Strategy
> 
> Why export at all?  As long as your database is in archive log
> mode you should be ok.  Do your cold backup to disk and always
> have the latest on disk.  That way you reduce your recover time
> by not having to go to tape for your backup.  I have all our OS
> backups scheduled to go after the backup for Oracle and that way
> I get the backup files off to tape just in case I have a really
> horrible failure.  
> 
> Make sure that your archive logs are on a different disk then your
> database files.  You increase your chance of being able to fully
> recover.
> 
> You may also want to consider running a standby database in case
> of failure during business hours.  I don't run one here but I run
> with ServiceGuard instead.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 3:50 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It will depend on how much data you can afford to lose (in terms of time)?
> 
> may be you can do
> exp at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
> Cold backup at 14
> 
> or perhaps you want to consider RMAN
> 
> 
> Sinardy
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Gholam Hussain
> Sent: Monday, 22 October 2001 6:00 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...
> 
> Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not afford
> down times during  our business period 
> 
> Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold
> backup
> scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we need to
> change our backup strategy ?
> How often do we need to make exports ?
> 
> Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...
> 
> 
> 
> Regards 
> Gholam
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Sinard Xing
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Kimberly Smith
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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&g

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Ahmed Gholam Hussain


Hi Kimberly ,
 
   Thanks a lot for your response .

   Due to some resource limitation , we can not afford running our database
on archive log always ...
What we are doing now is daily cold backups with weekend  based exports ...
Most of our systems are OLTP .. Are we on good track ?


Regards




> -Original Message-
> From: Kimberly Smith [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:41 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Backup Strategy
> 
> Why export at all?  As long as your database is in archive log
> mode you should be ok.  Do your cold backup to disk and always
> have the latest on disk.  That way you reduce your recover time
> by not having to go to tape for your backup.  I have all our OS
> backups scheduled to go after the backup for Oracle and that way
> I get the backup files off to tape just in case I have a really
> horrible failure.  
> 
> Make sure that your archive logs are on a different disk then your
> database files.  You increase your chance of being able to fully
> recover.
> 
> You may also want to consider running a standby database in case
> of failure during business hours.  I don't run one here but I run
> with ServiceGuard instead.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 3:50 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It will depend on how much data you can afford to lose (in terms of time)?
> 
> may be you can do
> exp at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
> Cold backup at 14
> 
> or perhaps you want to consider RMAN
> 
> 
> Sinardy
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Gholam Hussain
> Sent: Monday, 22 October 2001 6:00 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...
> 
> Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not afford
> down times during  our business period 
> 
> Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold
> backup
> scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we need to
> change our backup strategy ?
> How often do we need to make exports ?
> 
> Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...
> 
> 
> 
> Regards 
> Gholam
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Sinard Xing
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Kimberly Smith
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Ahmed Gholam Hussain


Hi Rachel ,

  Thanks a lot for your response ...Here are some details :
(1)ost of our systems are of kind OLTP.There are some heavy hours of data
processing  transactions  during the business hours ( Between 2 hours)

(2)  The issue is that our Dump files are some how too big and we have to
care about resource utilization Normally we do a backup every weekend



Regards 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 5:25 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re: Backup Strategy
> 
> We'd need a little more information before we can give any advice
> (okay, this group gives advice on no information but..)
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> 1) during the business hours, do you add critical data that you can't
> afford to lose to your database?  If so, you should be in archivelog
> mode. The cold backups will suffice if you have the archived logs.
> 
> 2) cold backups (or hot backups for that matter) allow you to recover
> the whole database, but if you lose a table, or accidentally delete
> data from a single table, it is difficult to use the backups to
> retrieve the information. If your export dump files are not too large
> and you have the disk space to store them, I'd do a full database
> export daily as well. This does two things:  allows you to recover a
> single table or some of its data easily and documents the structure of
> your database.
> 
> Rachel
> 
> 
> --- Ahmed Gholam Hussain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> > 
> >I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...
> > 
> > Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not
> > afford
> > down times during  our business period 
> > 
> > Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold
> > backup
> > scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we
> > need to
> > change our backup strategy ?
> > How often do we need to make exports ?
> > 
> > Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards 
> > Gholam
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> > Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Kimberly Smith


Why export at all?  As long as your database is in archive log
mode you should be ok.  Do your cold backup to disk and always
have the latest on disk.  That way you reduce your recover time
by not having to go to tape for your backup.  I have all our OS
backups scheduled to go after the backup for Oracle and that way
I get the backup files off to tape just in case I have a really
horrible failure.  

Make sure that your archive logs are on a different disk then your
database files.  You increase your chance of being able to fully
recover.

You may also want to consider running a standby database in case
of failure during business hours.  I don't run one here but I run
with ServiceGuard instead.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 3:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

It will depend on how much data you can afford to lose (in terms of time)?

may be you can do
exp at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
Cold backup at 14

or perhaps you want to consider RMAN


Sinardy



-Original Message-
Gholam Hussain
Sent: Monday, 22 October 2001 6:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dear all,

   I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...

Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not afford
down times during  our business period 

Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold backup
scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we need to
change our backup strategy ?
How often do we need to make exports ?

Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...



Regards 
Gholam
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
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Re: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Rachel Carmichael

We'd need a little more information before we can give any advice
(okay, this group gives advice on no information but..)

Some questions:

1) during the business hours, do you add critical data that you can't
afford to lose to your database?  If so, you should be in archivelog
mode. The cold backups will suffice if you have the archived logs.

2) cold backups (or hot backups for that matter) allow you to recover
the whole database, but if you lose a table, or accidentally delete
data from a single table, it is difficult to use the backups to
retrieve the information. If your export dump files are not too large
and you have the disk space to store them, I'd do a full database
export daily as well. This does two things:  allows you to recover a
single table or some of its data easily and documents the structure of
your database.

Rachel

--- Ahmed Gholam Hussain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
>I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...
> 
> Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not
> afford
> down times during  our business period 
> 
> Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold
> backup
> scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we
> need to
> change our backup strategy ?
> How often do we need to make exports ?
> 
> Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...
> 
> 
> 
> Regards 
> Gholam
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
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-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-22 Thread Sinard Xing


Hi,

It will depend on how much data you can afford to lose (in terms of time)?

may be you can do
exp at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
Cold backup at 14

or perhaps you want to consider RMAN


Sinardy



-Original Message-
Gholam Hussain
Sent: Monday, 22 October 2001 6:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dear all,

   I want your suggestions regarding our firm's  backup strategy...

Our business starts from 7.00 AM and ends at 2.00 PM ..We can not afford
down times during  our business period 

Normally , we are doing a cold backup every day using scheduled cold backup
scripts .Is this backup good enough for any future failure ? Do we need to
change our backup strategy ?
How often do we need to make exports ?

Any suggestions would  be appreciated ...



Regards 
Gholam
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Ahmed Gholam Hussain
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-05 Thread Guy Hammond


That is a good point, it is important to consider who will be doing the
recovery. If it is a relatively small and static database, and the
recovery will be performed by an Unix admin (i.e. not a specialist DBA)
then export/cold backup does make a lot of sense. The main issue to
consider is $$$. If the organization won't lose any $$$ from the
database being down for as long as it takes to recover from a cold
backup, then the simplest technique is sufficient.


Cheers,

g
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 10:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.
I am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup
scripts?  Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying
aorund.  Thanks :)

Gene
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Re: Backup Strategy

2001-10-05 Thread Joe Testa


Jeremiah, you must evidently not know Jared based on your reply.  He
didnt detail the step but gave an overall theory.  I know his scripts
wouldnt take anything on blind faith(unless of course he's the ONLY one
who does DBA work on that database, then if he's as anal as me, he still
wouldnt trust himself) ;)

joe
Jeremiah Wilton wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 4 Oct 2001, Gene Sais wrote:
> 
> > 2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump,
> > cpio, dd, etc. the datafiles, redo logs, ctl files, oracle
> > filesystems, etc. to tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or
> > another server and restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems
> > being the same).
> 
> Seems like if you just tar everything up without querying the database
> for the file locations, you stand a chance of missing files.  You are
> relying on the good will of all involved to put new datafiles under
> the mountpoints you are backing up.  If someone makes a mistake and
> puts a new datafile in a different place, it can result in that file
> not getting backed up.  All backup scripts, hot and cold, should be
> obtaining the file locations from the database instance.  You are not
> really saving anything by avoiding "oracle commands."
> 
> Jared wrote:
> 
> > As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're
> > only really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .
> > Otherwise it is not necessary to use a cold backup.
> 
> What?  you haven't recovered past resetlogs before?
> 
> 8-)
> 
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> 

-- 
Joe Testa  
Performing Remote DBA Services, need some backup DBA support?
For Sale: Oracle-dba.com domain, its not going cheap but feel free to
ask :)
IM: n8xcthome or joen8xct
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-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-05 Thread Christopher Spence


First thing with cold backups is the obvious, you will loose data since your
last backup.  You need to be running archive mode to recover up to the point
of failure, or to recover a single data file.  With cold backups, if you
loose a data file, (say one out of 30) you need to recover the entire
database.  With hot backups and archive logs, you can recover the database,
and have the database up at the time as well.

Referring to not being comfortable using hot backups.  There is absolutely
no risk to doing hot backups while the files are in use, Oracle writes full
blocks to the redo logs while in backup mode.  This means, say you have a
data file with 1000 blocks.  You modify 100 rows during the backup, normally
Oracle will just store the old, new, and command information when you make
modifications, but seeing as your data file is in backup mode, it stores the
entire block.  As you modified the blocks while the backup is running, the
file you backed up is considered corrupted.  As you would expect running
backups while the database is up.  But seeing as oracle saved the entire
block it modified, it can just over lay the block into the data file (blocks
most likely) and "build" a good data file.  This is the recovery process,
and it is tried and true.

For any production instance where data loss is not acceptable (I generally
frown on any data loss) and you need to recover within a time limit, hot
backups are the way to go.  You don't need to shut down your database, you
will not loose data on a failure, you can recover just single data files if
a drive fails rather than entire database having to go down to be repaired.

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence 
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:

1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups.  Dev & Test DB's do not
need archive space.

2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio,
dd, etc. the datafiles, redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to
tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another server and
restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot
Backups, we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need the arcs and
need to recover the db.

Gene
* Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than open
files :) *

>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>


OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?

As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.

Jared



 

"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        ach.fl.us>  cc:

Sent by:Subject: RE: Backup Strategy

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

10/04/01 02:10 PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was d

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-05 Thread Cherie_Machler



Gene,

Are you going to be using RMAN?  Is this on UNIX?   What version of
database?

Thanks,

Cherie


   
   
"Gene Sais"
   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
ach.fl.us>  cc:
   
Sent by:        Subject:     RE: Backup Strategy   
   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
   
   
   
   
   
10/04/01 04:10 PM  
   
Please respond to  
   
ORACLE-L   
   
   
   
   
   




Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-05 Thread Jeremiah Wilton

On Thu, 4 Oct 2001, Gene Sais wrote:

> 2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump,
> cpio, dd, etc. the datafiles, redo logs, ctl files, oracle
> filesystems, etc. to tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or
> another server and restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems
> being the same).

Seems like if you just tar everything up without querying the database
for the file locations, you stand a chance of missing files.  You are
relying on the good will of all involved to put new datafiles under
the mountpoints you are backing up.  If someone makes a mistake and
puts a new datafile in a different place, it can result in that file
not getting backed up.  All backup scripts, hot and cold, should be
obtaining the file locations from the database instance.  You are not
really saving anything by avoiding "oracle commands."

Jared wrote:

> As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're
> only really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .
> Otherwise it is not necessary to use a cold backup.

What?  you haven't recovered past resetlogs before?

8-)

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

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Re: RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Gene Sais


Guess its time for me to at least try hot backups.  Guess, Lisa said it right, having 
come from the sysadmin side, I like my files closed.  But I will have at least 1 cold 
backup per week to make me happy :)

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 18:21 PM >>>
Don't get me wrong Gene, cold backups have their place.  Especially in the
context your
talking about.  You obviously don't need to have all your data recovered
right?  Cause if
you did a cold backup without archive logs are not going to get you all your
data back.  
I don't have my development databases in archive log mode.  Actually I don't
even back them
up as I can rebuild them from production easily enough.

The reason this irks me so much is I have a manager here that I have to go
though this same
fight every time I am going to do any maintenance to a database.  "You have
to shut down the
database and do a cold backup first".  Please!  Why would I want to add an
extra 3 hours of
downtime to a mission critical app.  I run a hot backup first and then start
my maintenance.
I am the one who has to recover the damn thing.  I have yet to have a
failure recovering
from a hot backup (and I do have to do them from time to time).  

I am not sure where the misconception comes from that its "safer" to have a
cold backup.
Must be from people doing hot backups wrong or something.  Its an ol' wives
tale.  Its not
true.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:

1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups.  Dev & Test DB's do not
need archive space.

2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio,
dd, etc. the datafiles redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to
tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another server and
restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot
Backups, we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need the arcs and
need to recover the db.

Gene
* Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than open
files :) *

>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>


OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?

As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.

Jared



 

"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ach.fl.us>  cc:

Sent by:Subject: RE: Backup Strategy

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

10/04/01 02:10 PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you miht want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
--
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Fat City Network Services-- (858)

Re: RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Gene Sais


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 18:26 PM >>>
1. If you can afford to lose data from the time of the
last backup, then you are right. However, I even put
those databases on 24x7 mode whenever possible because
(1) Developers, like DBAs, work strange hours in the
night and day and would probally like to have access
to the database. (2) You never had a developer be
pissed off at you because you couldn't restore one
table without having to wipe out all the work he or
jack did earlier today. (3) How can you truely test a
24x7 application on a non 24x7 Oracle database when
now the SGA differs between the two machines?

>>> I do cold backups of dev & test db's daily to disk.  also do export backups for 
>object restores.

2. I am a strong believer of the KISS philosophy as
well, you guys haven't seen my users! This, however,
should not apply to us as DBAs whose job is to know
DBA related commands

Regards,
Satar

--- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:
> 
> 1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups. 
> Dev & Test DB's do not need archive space.
> 
> 2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown
> db, tar, dump, cpio, dd, etc. the datafiles, redo
> logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to tape,
> Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another
> server and restore, No Oracle cmds required
> (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot Backups,
> we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need
> the arcs and need to recover the db.
> 
> Gene
> * Still not convinced backing up closed files are
> not safer/better than open files :) *
> 
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?
> 
> As for cold backps, and I'm sure you've heard this
> already, they're only
> really needed after you open a database with
> 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
> is not necessary to use a cold backup.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 


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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Veronica Levin


Thanks Kimberly, I just ordered that one last week!!
I'll start reading as soon as I get it.

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Kimberly Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 04:55 p.m.
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,
If you got some cash I highly recommend the Oracle Press book 
"Backup & Recover Handbook"  by Velpuri Adkoli.  It goes into 
some of that and has test cases and all that fun stuff.  Its one
of the best Oracle Press books I have.  I think you will find
it pretty useful.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:36 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Thanks Jared, I'm already searching for it!
And yes, I am glad I got another reply :)

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 12:39 p.m.
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy



Veronica,

Here is yet one more reply for you, but I think you'll be glad to get it.

Tom Cox put together an excellent paper on BU and Reco requirements,
and it can be found at:

   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Look for 'Backup and Recovery Metrics and Rules of Thumb' on that page
and download the file.

It contains logical level backup strategies, 3 different example
Service Level Agreements based on customer need, and example
scripts.

Great piece of work.

Jared





 

Veronica Levin


ia.com.ni>   cc:

    Sent by:     Subject: RE: Backup Strategy

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

om

 

 

10/04/01 09:10

AM

Please respond

to ORACLE-L

 

 





Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot
for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type
of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current
database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code
and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This
gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread satar naghshineh

1. If you can afford to lose data from the time of the
last backup, then you are right. However, I even put
those databases on 24x7 mode whenever possible because
(1) Developers, like DBAs, work strange hours in the
night and day and would probally like to have access
to the database. (2) You never had a developer be
pissed off at you because you couldn't restore one
table without having to wipe out all the work he or
jack did earlier today. (3) How can you truely test a
24x7 application on a non 24x7 Oracle database when
now the SGA differs between the two machines?

2. I am a strong believer of the KISS philosophy as
well, you guys haven't seen my users! This, however,
should not apply to us as DBAs whose job is to know
DBA related commands.

Regards,
Satar

--- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:
> 
> 1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups. 
> Dev & Test DB's do not need archive space.
> 
> 2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown
> db, tar, dump, cpio, dd, etc. the datafiles, redo
> logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to tape,
> Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another
> server and restore, No Oracle cmds required
> (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot Backups,
> we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need
> the arcs and need to recover the db.
> 
> Gene
> * Still not convinced backing up closed files are
> not safer/better than open files :) *
> 
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?
> 
> As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this
> already, they're only
> really needed after you open a database with
> 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
> is not necessary to use a cold backup.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 

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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Connor McDonald


Just to add some controversary - I cannot think of a
single reason to bring a database down during normal
operation.  To change some static parameters, or
upgrade it, then yes, but other than that - its just
shooting yourself in the foot.

When your database has been up for some time, its nice
and stable - all the queries have been parsed, your
buffer cache is perfectly primed, life is good - and
then bang - you shut the thing down and start from
scratch each day...Ugh!

My view is leave your database up unless you
absolutely, definitely need to bring it down...

Cheers
Connor

 --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
Henry brings up a good point.  Users accept
> scheduled downtime (cold backups), therefore it
> allows me perform system maintenance w/out asking
> for permission :)  They always want 24x7 and never
> give permission.
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 05:55PM >>>
> And what about changes to the init.ora? No scheduled
> downtime is necessary
> with cold backups. (of course more stuff can be
> changed on line these days)
> 
> Henry
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:11 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using
> OS cmds, no need for
> Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS
> cmds + Oracle recovery.
> One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1
> db that will be
> web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have
> to do, Hot Backups.  I am
> not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have
> hot backup scripts?  Lisa,
> you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts
> lying aorund.  Thanks :)
> 
> Gene
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM
> >>>
> Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files
> being closed
> that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN
> here either
> but its more because my backup method works wonders
> and I just 
> don't need those extra features that RMAN provides. 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of sites out there that cannot
> afford to have
> the database come down even for 5 minutes so you
> might want
> to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot
> backups.
> I swear, they work.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always
> better when the files are
> closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who
> still doesn't trust Rman
> :)
> 
> Gene
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM
> >>>
> I agree with your export statement but I must
> question this one.  I cannot
> think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a
> hot backup.  I can
> think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing
> hot backups already I
> would not shutdown my database just to get a cold. 
> There is a myth out
> there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold
> backups and its false.
> Your really not saving anything time wise if there
> is a crash (unless of
> course all your disks crash as you are bring up the
> database).
> 
> Weekly cold backups are a good plan.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com 
> -- 
> Author: Kimberly Smith
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
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> from).  You may
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


Don't get me wrong Gene, cold backups have their place.  Especially in the
context your
talking about.  You obviously don't need to have all your data recovered
right?  Cause if
you did a cold backup without archive logs are not going to get you all your
data back.  
I don't have my development databases in archive log mode.  Actually I don't
even back them
up as I can rebuild them from production easily enough.

The reason this irks me so much is I have a manager here that I have to go
though this same
fight every time I am going to do any maintenance to a database.  "You have
to shut down the
database and do a cold backup first".  Please!  Why would I want to add an
extra 3 hours of
downtime to a mission critical app.  I run a hot backup first and then start
my maintenance.
I am the one who has to recover the damn thing.  I have yet to have a
failure recovering
from a hot backup (and I do have to do them from time to time).  

I am not sure where the misconception comes from that its "safer" to have a
cold backup.
Must be from people doing hot backups wrong or something.  Its an ol' wives
tale.  Its not
true.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:

1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups.  Dev & Test DB's do not
need archive space.

2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio,
dd, etc. the datafiles, redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to
tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another server and
restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot
Backups, we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need the arcs and
need to recover the db.

Gene
* Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than open
files :) *

>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>


OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?

As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.

Jared



 

"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>    
ach.fl.us>  cc:

Sent by:Subject: RE: Backup Strategy

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

10/04/01 02:10 PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


--
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--
Author: Kimberly Smith
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


Veronica,
If you got some cash I highly recommend the Oracle Press book 
"Backup & Recover Handbook"  by Velpuri Adkoli.  It goes into 
some of that and has test cases and all that fun stuff.  Its one
of the best Oracle Press books I have.  I think you will find
it pretty useful.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:36 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Thanks Jared, I'm already searching for it!
And yes, I am glad I got another reply :)

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 12:39 p.m.
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy



Veronica,

Here is yet one more reply for you, but I think you'll be glad to get it.

Tom Cox put together an excellent paper on BU and Reco requirements,
and it can be found at:

   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Look for 'Backup and Recovery Metrics and Rules of Thumb' on that page
and download the file.

It contains logical level backup strategies, 3 different example
Service Level Agreements based on customer need, and example
scripts.

Great piece of work.

Jared





 

Veronica Levin


ia.com.ni>   cc:

    Sent by: Subject: RE: Backup Strategy

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

om

 

 

10/04/01 09:10

AM

Please respond

to ORACLE-L

 

 





Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot
for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type
of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current
database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code
and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This
gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary.

As you

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


Once you have been in production for a while you really should not
be changing your init that much.  But there is a big difference between
the downtime necessary to restart a database and to shut it down,
copy all the files, and then start it up again.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


And what about changes to the init.ora? No scheduled downtime is necessary
with cold backups. (of course more stuff can be changed on line these days)

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I am
not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?  Lisa,
you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.  Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just 
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.  

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Veronica Levin


Actually I do have the time for the cold backup on sundays, so I rather stay
with it while I can... 
Kimberly, I got your point. :)

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Kimberly Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 01:05 p.m.
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Oh, guess I jumped the gun.  Sorry.  However, now she knows
its ok not to shut it down if she was just doing it cause she
though she should:-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:40 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,

I think we agree with each other.

The only reason I suggested that she stay with the cold backup on the
weekend was because she was already doing that.

If we were devising a brand new backup strategy, and the requirement was
that there was no down-time available for a cold backup, then I think we
would all stay with hot backups (I prefer Rman).

But since she has the time for a cold backup on the weekend, I suggested she
stay with it for a "comfort zone".


Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Gene Sais


Henry brings up a good point.  Users accept scheduled downtime (cold backups), 
therefore it allows me perform system maintenance w/out asking for permission :)  They 
always want 24x7 and never give permission.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 05:55PM >>>
And what about changes to the init.ora? No scheduled downtime is necessary
with cold backups. (of course more stuff can be changed on line these days)

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I am
not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?  Lisa,
you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.  Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just 
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.  

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Jared . Still




Well, if you can live with losing data due to a crash, or if
your data is all static, no problem I guess.

Jared




   

"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
ach.fl.us>  cc:

        Subject: RE: Backup Strategy   

10/04/01 02:23 PM  

   

   





I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:

1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups.  Dev & Test DB's do not
need archive space.

2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio,
dd, etc. the datafiles, redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to
tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another server and
restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot
Backups, we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need the arcs and
need to recover the db.

Gene
* Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than
open files :) *

>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>


OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?

As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.

Jared




"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    ach.fl.us>  cc:

Sent by:Subject: RE: Backup
Strategy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



10/04/01 02:10 PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L







Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for o

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Veronica Levin


Thanks Jared, I'm already searching for it!
And yes, I am glad I got another reply :)

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 12:39 p.m.
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy



Veronica,

Here is yet one more reply for you, but I think you'll be glad to get it.

Tom Cox put together an excellent paper on BU and Reco requirements,
and it can be found at:

   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Look for 'Backup and Recovery Metrics and Rules of Thumb' on that page
and download the file.

It contains logical level backup strategies, 3 different example
Service Level Agreements based on customer need, and example
scripts.

Great piece of work.

Jared





 

Veronica Levin


ia.com.ni>   cc:

Sent by:         Subject: RE: Backup Strategy

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

om

 

 

10/04/01 09:10

AM

Please respond

to ORACLE-L

 

 





Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot
for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type
of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current
database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code
and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This
gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary.

As you can see, there are many factors to consider, and there is no "one
true backup plan" that can be applied to all installations. You need to
understand recovery scenarios before planning backing up. But there is a
general approach that can be applied, which is:

(cost of database failure/hour * recovery time * probability of database
failure * safety factor) = amount to spend on preparation for recover

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Gene Sais


I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:

1) Archive log mode not required for cold backups.  Dev & Test DB's do not need 
archive space.

2) Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio, dd, etc. the 
datafiles, redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to tape, Startup db, Done.  
Take the tape to same or another server and restore, No Oracle cmds required 
(filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot Backups, we have to add a step.  Not a big 
step :)  We need the arcs and need to recover the db.

Gene
* Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than open files :) *

>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>


OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?

As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.

Jared



   

"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ach.fl.us>  cc:
        
Sent by:Subject: RE: Backup Strategy   

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

   

   

10/04/01 02:10 PM  

Please respond to  

ORACLE-L   

   

   





Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
--
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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(or the name of mailing list you want

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Jared . Still




OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?

As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.

Jared



   

"Gene Sais"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ach.fl.us>  cc:

        Sent by:Subject: RE: Backup Strategy   

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

   

   

10/04/01 02:10 PM  

Please respond to  

ORACLE-L   

   

   





Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
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--
Author: Gene Sais
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also send the HELP command for oth

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Henry Poras


And what about changes to the init.ora? No scheduled downtime is necessary
with cold backups. (of course more stuff can be changed on line these days)

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I am
not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?  Lisa,
you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.  Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just 
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.  

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
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-- 
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-- 
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-

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Koivu, Lisa

Title: RE: Backup Strategy





Gene is a sysadmin at heart.  He hasn't been fully groomed and trained in the Data Base Arts.  I think that's the main reason for his (unjustified) reluctance to TRUST something that works.  

It's like physics.  You see it every day, the math doesn't make 100% sense to you, but you have to convince yourself that certain facts are true before you can move to the next level.  Play with hot backups, test the scenarios, learn to trust it.  Convince yourself that it WORKS. 

I have a boatload of scripts.  Gene you should be able to modify your trusty dusty cold backup scripts to execute the alter tablespace commands dynamically, one by one, and do the copy.   should be a minor change.   There's one caveat:  you can't do this if you aren't in archive log mode. 

I'll look through what I've got and send them to you.  


(For those of you who don't know, Gene is my old boss.  I taught him a lot about Oracle -  LOL... My favorite taunt:  Gene's afraid of R-Man!  Gene's afraid of R-Man!)

Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Administrator and Terrible Perl Programmer
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
954-935-4117



-Original Message-
From:   Gene Sais [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:11 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    RE: Backup Strategy


Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.  One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?  Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.  Thanks :)

Gene


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just 
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.  


There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.  


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)


Gene


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).


Weekly cold backups are a good plan.



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Gene Sais


Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for Oracle 
recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.  One exception is pt 
in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So 
guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I am not against them, just prefer cold.   
Anyone have hot backup scripts?  Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those 
scripts lying aorund.  Thanks :)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just 
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.  

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


I just got to it.  No problems over here.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jared,

This site is unavailable right now

Ramon E. Estevez
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
809-565-3121


-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Thursday, 04 October, 2001 2:40 PM
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy



Veronica,

Here is yet one more reply for you, but I think you'll be glad to get it.

Tom Cox put together an excellent paper on BU and Reco requirements,
and it can be found at:

   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Look for 'Backup and Recovery Metrics and Rules of Thumb' on that page
and download the file.

It contains logical level backup strategies, 3 different example
Service Level Agreements based on customer need, and example
scripts.

Great piece of work.

Jared






Veronica Levin

ia.com.ni>   cc:
Sent by:         Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
om


10/04/01 09:10
AM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L






Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot
for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type
of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current
database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code
and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This
gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary.

As you can see, there are many factors to consider, and there is no "one
true backup plan" that can be applied to all installations. You need to
understand recovery scenarios before planning backing up. But there is a
general approach that can be applied, which is:

(cost of database failure/

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread satar naghshineh

Actually, I'll take it even one step further... ;)

There should be no reason to choose cold backups over
hot backups. Even companies who can afford to be down
during weekends and weeknights will appreciate a
database that can be accessed by users anytime.

Regards,
Satar

--- Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files
> being closed
> that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN
> here either
> but its more because my backup method works wonders
> and I just 
> don't need those extra features that RMAN provides. 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of sites out there that cannot
> afford to have
> the database come down even for 5 minutes so you
> might want
> to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot
> backups.
> I swear, they work.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always
> better when the files are
> closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who
> still doesn't trust Rman
> :)
> 
> Gene
> 

__
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: satar naghshineh
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Ramon Estevez


Jared,

This site is unavailable right now

Ramon E. Estevez
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
809-565-3121


-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Thursday, 04 October, 2001 2:40 PM
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy



Veronica,

Here is yet one more reply for you, but I think you'll be glad to get it.

Tom Cox put together an excellent paper on BU and Reco requirements,
and it can be found at:

   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Look for 'Backup and Recovery Metrics and Rules of Thumb' on that page
and download the file.

It contains logical level backup strategies, 3 different example
Service Level Agreements based on customer need, and example
scripts.

Great piece of work.

Jared






Veronica Levin

ia.com.ni>   cc:
Sent by:         Subject: RE: Backup Strategy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
om


10/04/01 09:10
AM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L






Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot
for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type
of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current
database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code
and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This
gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary.

As you can see, there are many factors to consider, and there is no "one
true backup plan" that can be applied to all installations. You need to
understand recovery scenarios before planning backing up. But there is a
general approach that can be applied, which is:

(cost of database failure/hour * recovery time * probability of database
failure * safety factor) = amount to spend on preparation for recovery.

HTH,

g


-Original Message--

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just 
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.  

There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you might want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files are
closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)

Gene

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Gene Sais
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Jared . Still



Veronica,

Here is yet one more reply for you, but I think you'll be glad to get it.

Tom Cox put together an excellent paper on BU and Reco requirements,
and it can be found at:

   http://www.geocities.com/tbcox23/

Look for 'Backup and Recovery Metrics and Rules of Thumb' on that page
and download the file.

It contains logical level backup strategies, 3 different example
Service Level Agreements based on customer need, and example
scripts.

Great piece of work.

Jared





   
 
Veronica Levin 
 

ia.com.ni>   cc:   
 
Sent by:     Subject: RE: Backup Strategy  
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
om 
 
   
 
   
 
10/04/01 09:10 
 
AM 
 
Please respond 
 
to ORACLE-L
 
   
 
   
 




Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot
for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type
of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current
database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code
and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This
gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


Oh, guess I jumped the gun.  Sorry.  However, now she knows
its ok not to shut it down if she was just doing it cause she
though she should:-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:40 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Kimberly,

I think we agree with each other.

The only reason I suggested that she stay with the cold backup on the
weekend was because she was already doing that.

If we were devising a brand new backup strategy, and the requirement was
that there was no down-time available for a cold backup, then I think we
would all stay with hot backups (I prefer Rman).

But since she has the time for a cold backup on the weekend, I suggested she
stay with it for a "comfort zone".


Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

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to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F


Kimberly,

I think we agree with each other.

The only reason I suggested that she stay with the cold backup on the
weekend was because she was already doing that.

If we were devising a brand new backup strategy, and the requirement was
that there was no down-time available for a cold backup, then I think we
would all stay with hot backups (I prefer Rman).

But since she has the time for a cold backup on the weekend, I suggested she
stay with it for a "comfort zone".


Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Kimberly Smith


I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Kimberly Smith
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Veronica Levin


Thanks for all the answers,
I'll have to find out what applies to our company, but you gave me a good
start.
Thomas, I haven't got a chance to read the doc. but I will, thanks a lot for
sharing it!
Guy, George, thanks a lot for your input, I'll have all that in mind.
Have a nice day!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Octubre de 2001 06:09 a.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary. 

As you can see, there are many factors to consider, and there is no "one
true backup plan" that can be applied to all installations. You need to
understand recovery scenarios before planning backing up. But there is a
general approach that can be applied, which is:

(cost of database failure/hour * recovery time * probability of database
failure * safety factor) = amount to spend on preparation for recovery.

HTH,

g


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 10:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Users can't afford to be without the database to work, that is for sure.

I know that there are a lot of recovery scenarios, and plans for them...

But I was talking about backups... how many, what type of backups, etc.

So far I've been doing ok with daily exports and weekly full backups,
just
wanted to hear if there is anything else I should be doing,

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 03 de Octubre de 2001 01:17 p.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

Before you can decide on what your backup strategy will be, you really
need
to talk to the users of your database.

One of the most important pieces of information to get from your users
is
the "Mean Time to Recovery".  Simply put, you ask the user how long they
can
afford to be without a database.

If they tell you "no more than 10 minutes", then you had better devise
and
implement an automatic fail-over (either hot-standby, or if you c

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F


Veronica,

I hope the replies you received were helpful - Guy and George gave great
replies - more and better reasons than I stated for determining what type of
backup plan you need to develop.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest the following for your current database:

Daily exports seem a bit much to me.  Exports have limited use in any type
of recovery plan.  They are good for restoring static tables - like code and
"lookup" type tables.  They are not so good for relational tables, as they
may export data "in between" transactions so that restoring may not be
successfull because of relational constraints (like you export a parent
table, an insert occurs to the parent and child table, and then you export
the child table.  Restoring the child table from the export will fail
because the parent record does not exist for the child record).

Weekly cold backups are a good plan.

I would add hot backups into the mix someplace - depending on how long a
backup takes to run.  Something like Hot backups on Tues & Thurs , Archive
log backups every day of the week, with your Cold backup on Sat.  This gives
you several chances during the week to perform a quick restore if needed.

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary. 

As you can see, there are many factors to consider, and there is no "one
true backup plan" that can be applied to all installations. You need to
understand recovery scenarios before planning backing up. But there is a
general approach that can be applied, which is:

(cost of database failure/hour * recovery time * probability of database
failure * safety factor) = amount to spend on preparation for recovery.

HTH,

g


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 10:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Users can't afford to be without the database to work, that is for sure.

I know that there are a lot of recovery scenarios, and plans for them...

But I was talking about backups... how many, what type of backups, etc.

So far I've been doing ok with daily exports and weekly full backups,
just
wanted to hear if there is anything else I should be doing,

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 03 de Octubre de 2001 01:17 p.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

Before you can decide on what your backup strategy will be, you really
need
to talk to the users of your database.

One of the most important pieces of information to get from your users
is
the "Mean Time to Recovery".  Simply put, you ask the user how long they
can
afford to be without a database.

If they tell you "no more than 10 minutes", then you had better devise
and
implement an automatic fail-over (either hot-standby, or if you can
share
the disks, automatic fail-over).

If they tell you "no longer than 1 hour", then you had better make sure
that
your backup and recovery plan can restore the data files and recover the
database within the time frame.

There are probably a dozen different scenarious that you need to
consider.
Each one will lead to to different types of recovery scenarious.  Each
one
will have a different cost (both in dollars and your time).

hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 2:00 PM
To: Multipl

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-04 Thread Guy Hammond


Hi Veronica,

The issue is how long can you *really* *afford* to be without the
database? The basis of any business analysis is cash. If your
organization would lose millions of dollars for every hour the database
is down, then it's probably worth spending a significant amount of money
on a failover (HA) or clustered (OPS) system, as Tom says. On the other
hand if they could manage without the database for 24 hours, then you
don't need to spend nearly as much money on recovery capability. What is
the probability of the database going down, due to failure of the
hardware? Of the software? Of user error?

If you did choose to recover from a hotbackup, you would need to apply a
full week of archived redo log in your present scenario. Try it on a
test system and see how long it takes. If it is within your recovery
time, then it's OK, if not then you will need to take the hotbackup more
frequently - this might mean buying a faster tape drive, or more hard
disks to use as a buffer. How long to restore Oracle itself onto fresh
hardware, so datafiles can be recovered? Similarly, how long does take
to do a full import into an otherwise empty database? How long would it
take to create an empty database on fresh hardware if you wanted to
import? If it's too long, then standby databases become necessary. 

As you can see, there are many factors to consider, and there is no "one
true backup plan" that can be applied to all installations. You need to
understand recovery scenarios before planning backing up. But there is a
general approach that can be applied, which is:

(cost of database failure/hour * recovery time * probability of database
failure * safety factor) = amount to spend on preparation for recovery.

HTH,

g


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 10:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Users can't afford to be without the database to work, that is for sure.

I know that there are a lot of recovery scenarios, and plans for them...

But I was talking about backups... how many, what type of backups, etc.

So far I've been doing ok with daily exports and weekly full backups,
just
wanted to hear if there is anything else I should be doing,

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 03 de Octubre de 2001 01:17 p.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

Before you can decide on what your backup strategy will be, you really
need
to talk to the users of your database.

One of the most important pieces of information to get from your users
is
the "Mean Time to Recovery".  Simply put, you ask the user how long they
can
afford to be without a database.

If they tell you "no more than 10 minutes", then you had better devise
and
implement an automatic fail-over (either hot-standby, or if you can
share
the disks, automatic fail-over).

If they tell you "no longer than 1 hour", then you had better make sure
that
your backup and recovery plan can restore the data files and recover the
database within the time frame.

There are probably a dozen different scenarious that you need to
consider.
Each one will lead to to different types of recovery scenarious.  Each
one
will have a different cost (both in dollars and your time).

hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi listers,
I was wondering how do you decide your backup strategy.

I do daily full exports and weekly full backups with database in
archivelog
mode.
Plus weekly Operating System Backup.

Is this all I can do to ensure fast recovery of the database or server
when
it is needed?

Any input on this topic will be appreciated!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Veronica Levin
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Veronica Levin
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

Re: Backup Strategy

2001-10-03 Thread George Schlossnagle


The downtime tolerance really dictates the backup strategy.  The tighter you
rtolerances for recovery time, the more expensive the backup startegy you
need to meet to guarantee it is.  The way I approach these problems when
laying out a backup strategy is:

1) figure out the cost and time to recovery, as well as the worst-case data
loss for the situation
 i.e.  if I have a 500G database and it takes 20 hours to restore from a
full export, then a I can say that running exports nightly costs X dollars
in labor and tapes, takes 20 hours to recover and I can loose up to a day of
data.  If  I run nightly hot backups and store all archive redo log, then it
costs X dollars in labor and hardware, has Y hours of mean time to recovery
and incurs Z hours of worst-case data loss (loss of the online redo).
Running a cluster environment with fully redundant hardware and a standby
server costs M and provides N.
2) Take the downtime requiremnts as given to you by your management and then
attach to them the appropriate cost as discovered in 1.
If that is acceptable, great.  If not, then you present the results you
learned in one, detailing the costs and benefis of each method, until a
cost/benefit combo acceptable to your management is reached.

I think the point of the responses you've recieved is that any degree of
recoverability is possible, if you're willing to incur the cost.  The key is
to figure out what cost is acceptable.

George


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:25 PM


Users can't afford to be without the database to work, that is for sure.

I know that there are a lot of recovery scenarios, and plans for them...
But I was talking about backups... how many, what type of backups, etc.

So far I've been doing ok with daily exports and weekly full backups, just
wanted to hear if there is anything else I should be doing,

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 03 de Octubre de 2001 01:17 p.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

Before you can decide on what your backup strategy will be, you really need
to talk to the users of your database.

One of the most important pieces of information to get from your users is
the "Mean Time to Recovery".  Simply put, you ask the user how long they can
afford to be without a database.

If they tell you "no more than 10 minutes", then you had better devise and
implement an automatic fail-over (either hot-standby, or if you can share
the disks, automatic fail-over).

If they tell you "no longer than 1 hour", then you had better make sure that
your backup and recovery plan can restore the data files and recover the
database within the time frame.

There are probably a dozen different scenarious that you need to consider.
Each one will lead to to different types of recovery scenarious.  Each one
will have a different cost (both in dollars and your time).

hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi listers,
I was wondering how do you decide your backup strategy.

I do daily full exports and weekly full backups with database in archivelog
mode.
Plus weekly Operating System Backup.

Is this all I can do to ensure fast recovery of the database or server when
it is needed?

Any input on this topic will be appreciated!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Veronica Levin
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Veronica Levin
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed fr

RE: Backup Strategy

2001-10-03 Thread Veronica Levin


Users can't afford to be without the database to work, that is for sure.

I know that there are a lot of recovery scenarios, and plans for them... 
But I was talking about backups... how many, what type of backups, etc.

So far I've been doing ok with daily exports and weekly full backups, just
wanted to hear if there is anything else I should be doing,

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 03 de Octubre de 2001 01:17 p.m.
Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
CC: Veronica Levin
Asunto: RE: Backup Strategy


Veronica,

Before you can decide on what your backup strategy will be, you really need
to talk to the users of your database.

One of the most important pieces of information to get from your users is
the "Mean Time to Recovery".  Simply put, you ask the user how long they can
afford to be without a database.

If they tell you "no more than 10 minutes", then you had better devise and
implement an automatic fail-over (either hot-standby, or if you can share
the disks, automatic fail-over).

If they tell you "no longer than 1 hour", then you had better make sure that
your backup and recovery plan can restore the data files and recover the
database within the time frame.

There are probably a dozen different scenarious that you need to consider.
Each one will lead to to different types of recovery scenarious.  Each one
will have a different cost (both in dollars and your time).

hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi listers,
I was wondering how do you decide your backup strategy.

I do daily full exports and weekly full backups with database in archivelog
mode.
Plus weekly Operating System Backup.

Is this all I can do to ensure fast recovery of the database or server when
it is needed?

Any input on this topic will be appreciated!

Saludos,
Veronica Levin Enriquez
Compañía Cervecera de Nicaragua
 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Veronica Levin
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Veronica Levin
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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