RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
Dennis, Thanks for the thoughts, the historical snapshot, and for paying attention to the question. I am on the DW list now, and will newby-ize them straight away. - Ross -Original Message- Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ross - Still hung up on size hmmm. How about this for a definition. A data warehouse encompasses data for the entire organization. A data mart services data for a portion of the organization. The history of this subject is relevant. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
I've been bodging my way though setting up a database to hold summary info for 11 million assets with various look-up tables around it, the whole to be refreshed weekly. Its not that big - around 15Gb, it doesn't have a timestamp as the partition key and it does not contain transaction info, but when I look at the Oracle DW documentation, lo-and-behold - many of the concepts and techniques apply - bitmap indexes, partitioning, 'fact' and 'dimension' tables, ETT, etc. 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet' -- David Lord > -Original Message- > From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 06 December 2001 21:55 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Datawarehouse Sizes.informal poll. > > > Informal survey: Datawarehousing. > > Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition > for defining > something > to be a datawarehouse is the > amount of data > to be stored." > > Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, > at/above what size > can something > be considered a data warehouse? > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Mohan, Ross > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > ** This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disclose, copy or use any part of it - please delete all copies immediately and notify the Hays Group Email Helpdesk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any information, statements or opinions contained in this message (including any attachments) are given by the author. They are not given on behalf of Hays unless subsequently confirmed by an individual other than the author who is duly authorised to represent Hays. A member of the Hays plc group of companies. Hays plc is registered in England and Wales number 2150950. Registered Office Hays House Millmead Guildford Surrey GU2 4HJ. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Lord, David - C&S INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
On Friday 07 December 2001 20:35, Robert Chin wrote: > >> My short take on this is that a datawarehouse is a OLTP database.. > > What ??? I think you should keep that "short take" to yourself for the > benefit of those who are seeking to learn/understand about DWH. > It's not uncommon to find OLTP databases with de-normalized data, and they > are certainly NOT DWH. Robert, tday6 was not far off the mark. First off, the logical design for an OLTP database should not have denormalizations in it. Secondly, a Data Warehouse will very much resemble an OLTP database with the addition of time series data. The structure of a Data Warehouses are designed to extract data to create data marts. Users shouldn't even be allowed near the Data Warehouse, that's what data marts are for. Mr. Inmon himself subscribes to the gist of this description of DW systems. Try not to to be so critical until you are somewhat more enlightened, and even then you could use a little tact. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
>> My short take on this is that a datawarehouse is a OLTP database.. What ??? I think you should keep that "short take" to yourself for the benefit of those who are seeking to learn/understand about DWH. It's not uncommon to find OLTP databases with de-normalized data, and they are certainly NOT DWH. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Chin INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
I don't think that size has much to do with it. You can have lots of data but if it's all in a few tables then it doesn't qualify as a datawarehouse (IMHO). My short take on this is that a datawarehouse is a OLTP database with de-normalized data that supports a DSS application. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
Ross - Still hung up on size hmmm. How about this for a definition. A data warehouse encompasses data for the entire organization. A data mart services data for a portion of the organization. The history of this subject is relevant. In the 80's there were Executive Information Systems. Systems couldn't host much data then, but these were an attempt to have the relevant data the executives needed to make decisions. This didn't pan out. Then in the 90's came the Data Warehouse movement. Put all the data for the entire organization into a single database. Problem was that people spent years squabbling over the design and by the time the data warehouse was built, the business had evolved and the data warehouse wasn't very relevant. Some warehouses were successful, but many were not. This made everyone skittish about claiming they had a data warehouse. Meanwhile, some departments got tired of waiting and created their own. These came to be called data marts. Many of these data marts were able to show immediate results, so "data mart" sounds nice. As to size, the data marts at one organization may be larger than another organization's data warehouse. But as data marts matured, problems emerged. One data mart is great, but when an organization has dozens, you can get different results from different data marts because they were built with different data models, extract data at different times, and treat data differently. And if each data mart separately extracts data from the operational systems, this causes a lot of overhead. Now the whole field of data warehousing has matured. People that build them realize that warehouses aren't simple to build and there is more tolerance from management as to the effort required. And many organizations are seeing significant benefits. Ross - well that is about the limit of my knowledge. I don't know where you are heading with the warehousing, but I would highly recommend the mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] list. There are some real experts on that list (even Ralph Kimball participates from time to time), yet they are amazingly tolerant of newby questions. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared, Thanks. I have the main RK book. Like it. Understand what little i have read of it. I am just interested in what folks thought about "size vs. DW definition" was. I *do* think, tho, that "size does matter". I don't consider my shared E: drive a datawarehouse because it can support a star query, one user, and 300 MB of data. There is 'something' to do with the fact of...alot of dataskewed dimensions...regular updates...data cleaning...supporting mining ( and mining for a few tiny facts in a big haystack requires, after all, the big haystack ) Anyways. I figure anything under 250 GB doesn't even merit being called a data Warehouse. Maybe a data 7-11. Thanks for the pointers and your thoughts. Ross -Original Message- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/6/2001 7:32 PM Ross, A DW is defined by purpose and design, not by size. A collection of Data Marts, ( tables for star joins ) is not a DW either. DW's are used to create data marts. If you don't already have the database books from Kimball, I suggest you acquire them. Data Warehouse Toolkit http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471153370/ref=pd_sim_books/104-7 669992-7054323 Data Warehouse Lifecycle Toolkit http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471255475/ref=pd_sim_books/104-7 669992-7054323 These are must haves for understanding and designing DW. Jared "Mohan, Ross" SMI.com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Datawarehouse Sizes.informal poll. [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 12/06/01 01:55 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Informal survey: Datawarehousing. Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition for defining something to be a datawarehouse is the amount of data to be stored." Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, at/above what size can something be considered a data warehouse? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
Re: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
I, like many others, have a problem with the "size is everything" definition. I worked with a 2 TB DSS system six years ago that wasn't a real "data warehouse". And I've seen a true datawarehouse fledgling that was under 200 GB (with lots of free space). However, even making the nonsense assumption, there would have to be a time factor. What would have been a VLDB five years ago might be smallish today. And a few tomorrows into the future, it might be "It's only a petabyte, you can't call THAT a data warehouse!". At this exact moment, the answer is 42 (x 10 GB). However, that answer is now obsolete. -Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:55 PM > Informal survey: Datawarehousing. > > Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition for defining > something > to be a datawarehouse is the amount of data > to be stored." > > Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, at/above what size > can something > be considered a data warehouse? > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Mohan, Ross > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
Jared, Thanks. I have the main RK book. Like it. Understand what little i have read of it. I am just interested in what folks thought about "size vs. DW definition" was. I *do* think, tho, that "size does matter". I don't consider my shared E: drive a datawarehouse because it can support a star query, one user, and 300 MB of data. There is 'something' to do with the fact of...alot of dataskewed dimensions...regular updates...data cleaning...supporting mining ( and mining for a few tiny facts in a big haystack requires, after all, the big haystack ) Anyways. I figure anything under 250 GB doesn't even merit being called a data Warehouse. Maybe a data 7-11. Thanks for the pointers and your thoughts. Ross -Original Message- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/6/2001 7:32 PM Ross, A DW is defined by purpose and design, not by size. A collection of Data Marts, ( tables for star joins ) is not a DW either. DW's are used to create data marts. If you don't already have the database books from Kimball, I suggest you acquire them. Data Warehouse Toolkit http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471153370/ref=pd_sim_books/104-7 669992-7054323 Data Warehouse Lifecycle Toolkit http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471255475/ref=pd_sim_books/104-7 669992-7054323 These are must haves for understanding and designing DW. Jared "Mohan, Ross" SMI.com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Datawarehouse Sizes.informal poll. [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 12/06/01 01:55 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Informal survey: Datawarehousing. Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition for defining something to be a datawarehouse is the amount of data to be stored." Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, at/above what size can something be considered a data warehouse? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
Ross, A DW is defined by purpose and design, not by size. A collection of Data Marts, ( tables for star joins ) is not a DW either. DW's are used to create data marts. If you don't already have the database books from Kimball, I suggest you acquire them. Data Warehouse Toolkit http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471153370/ref=pd_sim_books/104-7669992-7054323 Data Warehouse Lifecycle Toolkit http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471255475/ref=pd_sim_books/104-7669992-7054323 These are must haves for understanding and designing DW. Jared "Mohan, Ross" SMI.com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Datawarehouse Sizes.informal poll. [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 12/06/01 01:55 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Informal survey: Datawarehousing. Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition for defining something to be a datawarehouse is the amount of data to be stored." Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, at/above what size can something be considered a data warehouse? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
Barbara... have you been talking to men again...?
As I was instructed by the Oracle Data Warhouse class instructor last
year... it isn't the amount of data, but what it's purpose is... what you
do with it.
He was a neat teacher... Harley and all.
April
-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 12/6/01 5:25 PM
Ross
Size doesn't matter.
No, really.
Who's imposing the "amount of data" constraint??
Push Dodge and Gorman's "Oracle8 Data Warehousing" book toward your
damagement, and somehow trick them into reading the first chapter. They
quote Inmon (of course) -- a data warehouse is a "subject oriented,
integrated, nonvolatile, and time variant collection of data in support
of
management's decisions". Actually, this manual is a good read on the
subject.
On a lighter note -- we don't have a warehouse, we have a "data mart".
Cuz
we were too small to be a warehouse (at only 30 gigs).
x
Barb
> --
> From: Mohan, Ross[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Datawarehouse Sizes.informal poll.
>
> Informal survey: Datawarehousing.
>
> Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition for
defining
> something
> to be a datawarehouse is the amount of
data
> to be stored."
>
> Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, at/above what
size
> can something
> be considered a data warehouse?
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Mohan, Ross
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Baker, Barbara
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M;B!T:&4@:6YT96YD960@2!B92!I;&QE9V%L+B @268@>6]U(&AA=F4@7-T96US+"!)
M;F,N(&AA2!R96%S;VYA8FQE('!R96-A=71I;VX@=&\@
M96YS=7)E('1H870@86YY(&%T=&%C:&UE;G0@=&\@=&AI6]U(&-Ahttp://www.orafaq.com
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RE: Datawarehouse Sizes.....informal poll.
Ross Size doesn't matter. No, really. Who's imposing the "amount of data" constraint?? Push Dodge and Gorman's "Oracle8 Data Warehousing" book toward your damagement, and somehow trick them into reading the first chapter. They quote Inmon (of course) -- a data warehouse is a "subject oriented, integrated, nonvolatile, and time variant collection of data in support of management's decisions". Actually, this manual is a good read on the subject. On a lighter note -- we don't have a warehouse, we have a "data mart". Cuz we were too small to be a warehouse (at only 30 gigs). x Barb > -- > From: Mohan, Ross[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:55 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Datawarehouse Sizes.informal poll. > > Informal survey: Datawarehousing. > > Limiting Assumption: "A necessary and sufficient condition for defining > something > to be a datawarehouse is the amount of data > to be stored." > > Question/Poll: Given the above ridiculous constraint, at/above what size > can something > be considered a data warehouse? > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Mohan, Ross > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Baker, Barbara INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
