Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Yechiel Adar]

Salary !

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM


> Hello:
> Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a
> Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would be
> interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
>
>
> _
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jay Wade
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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Author: Yechiel Adar
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Kevin Lange]

I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other
than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .

Look at it this way 
Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the
most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean
the know the most.  

I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be guided
in the right way to do things.  
After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own 
but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would
call them a Mid Level.
To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all
the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.

If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about.   Many
of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.

As always ... just my opinion.

Kevin

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Salary !

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM


> Hello:
> Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a
> Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would be
> interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
>
>
> _
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jay Wade
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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Author: Yechiel Adar
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Author: Kevin Lange
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Richard Huntley]

Title: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA





Yechiel...now I'm curious...where would you say (or anyone else reading this) salary ranges should fall for each (jr, mid-level and senior DBA's), other

than senior DBA's maxing out at infinity? :)


-Original Message-
From: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA



Salary !


Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM



> Hello:
> Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a
> Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would be
> interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
>
>
> _
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jay Wade
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


-- 
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-- 
Author: Yechiel Adar
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
--- Kevin Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities
> other
> than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .
> 
> Look at it this way 
> Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they
> know the
> most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not
> mean
> the know the most.  
> 
> I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be
> guided
> in the right way to do things.  
> After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their
> own 
> but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I
> would
> call them a Mid Level.
> To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find
> all
> the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.
> 
> If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. 
>  Many
> of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.
> 
> As always ... just my opinion.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Salary !
> 
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM
> 
> 
> > Hello:
> > Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA,
> and a
> > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would
> be
> > interested in knowing how other people might classify the
> differences.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > _
> > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Jay Wade
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> >
> 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Yechiel Adar
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Kevin Lange
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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San Diego, California  

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

And one more thing . . Knowing when you need help, and then go looking for
it.  Lets face it, we are not inside of Oracle Development.  The products
are changing all the time, and we need to change our knowledge-base to keep
up with it.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
--- Kevin Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities
> other
> than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .
> 
> Look at it this way 
> Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they
> know the
> most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not
> mean
> the know the most.  
> 
> I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be
> guided
> in the right way to do things.  
> After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their
> own 
> but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I
> would
> call them a Mid Level.
> To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find
> all
> the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.
> 
> If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. 
>  Many
> of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.
> 
> As always ... just my opinion.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Salary !
> 
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM
> 
> 
> > Hello:
> > Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA,
> and a
> > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would
> be
> > interested in knowing how other people might classify the
> differences.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > _
> > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Jay Wade
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> >
> 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Yechiel Adar
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Kevin Lange
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other inf

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Orr, Steve]

Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain?


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Importance: High


by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Orr, Steve
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Kevin Lange]

Yea I know ... Thats why I mentioned both Experience and Abilities.  I would
not say your list of names given were Sr. SIMPLY because they have been in
the buisness forever.  But, based on the fact that they have UNDENIABLE
ABILITIES  on this subject ...  more abilities than most ... they would
definitely be Sr. 

I guess the point I was trying to make is that it takes a lot of different
pieces to make a Sr.  More than just a simple Salary level like most
employers I know look at.  I have been with a company that , one day, you
are a Jr. DBA.The next day  after your raise, Abracadabra, You are a
Sr. DBA.   THATS NOT RIGHT.

The Sr. should come with TIME, EFFORT and ABILITY.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
--- Kevin Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities
> other
> than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .
> 
> Look at it this way 
> Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they
> know the
> most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not
> mean
> the know the most.  
> 
> I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be
> guided
> in the right way to do things.  
> After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their
> own 
> but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I
> would
> call them a Mid Level.
> To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find
> all
> the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.
> 
> If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. 
>  Many
> of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.
> 
> As always ... just my opinion.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Salary !
> 
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM
> 
> 
> > Hello:
> > Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA,
> and a
> > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would
> be
> > interested in knowing how other people might classify the
> differences.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > _
> > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Jay Wade
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> >
> 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Yechiel Adar
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Kevin Lange
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Interne

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

okay, the definitive answer, from the soon to be released Oracle9i DBA
101, Theriault, Carmichael and Viscusi:

"This bit of humor was circulating around electronic mail a while ago.
We don't know who wrote it, but it's a fun twist on an old joke:
CIOs leap tall buildings in a single bound
Are faster than a speeding bullet (rats, missed him again)
Are more powerful than a locomotive
Talk to God 

Sr. Managers leap short buildings with a running start
Are faster than a BB gun
Are more powerful than a streetcar
Ask God questions 

Midlevel DBAs can clear a single-story house most of the time
Can outrun the arrows that users shoot at them, with a head start
Get run over by bicycles
Beg God not to notice them 

Junior DBAs trip over the stoop
Wonder why there are holes in their body
Say ?Look at the choo-choo?
Make God mad by asking, ?What happens if I turn off the server?? 

Senior DBAs run through buildings
Eat the bullets
Throw the locomotive at the users
Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)!"

--- "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...
> 
> there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
> DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
> facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
> senior.
> 
> I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
> Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
> senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One
> doesn't
> wipe out the other
> 
> Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
> websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
> and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
> problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.
> 
> Rachel
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Orr, Steve
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Mohammad Rafiq]

100% agreed with the goddess
No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much 
functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases 
and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988 
, I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all 
DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact 
is, learning is a continous process

Regards
Rafiq




Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800

by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
--- Kevin Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 > I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities
 > other
 > than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .
 >
 > Look at it this way 
 > Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they
 > know the
 > most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not
 > mean
 > the know the most.
 >
 > I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be
 > guided
 > in the right way to do things.
 > After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their
 > own 
 > but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I
 > would
 > call them a Mid Level.
 > To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find
 > all
 > the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.
 >
 > If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about.
 >  Many
 > of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.
 >
 > As always ... just my opinion.
 >
 > Kevin
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 >
 >
 > Salary !
 >
 > Yechiel Adar
 > Mehish
 > - Original Message -
 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM
 >
 >
 > > Hello:
 > > Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA,
 > and a
 > > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would
 > be
 > > interested in knowing how other people might classify the
 > differences.
 > >
 > > Regards,
 > > Jay
 > >
 > >
 > > _
 > > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
 > > http://www.hotmail.com
 > >
 > > --
 > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 > > --
 > > Author: Jay Wade
 > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > >
 > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
 > Lists
 > >
 > 
 > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
 > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
 > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 > > also send the HELP command for other information (like
 > subscribing).
 >
 > --
 > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 > --
 > Author: Yechiel Adar
 >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
 > Lists
 > 
 > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
 > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
 > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 > --
 > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 > --
 > Author: Kevin Lange
 >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
 > Lists
 > 
 > To REMOVE your

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Orr, Steve]

You need to add one more line...

Senior DBAs run through buildings
Eat the bullets
Throw the locomotive at the users
Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)!
... and know they are not Larry Ellison.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Importance: High


okay, the definitive answer, from the soon to be released Oracle9i DBA
101, Theriault, Carmichael and Viscusi:

"This bit of humor was circulating around electronic mail a while ago.
We don't know who wrote it, but it's a fun twist on an old joke:
CIOs leap tall buildings in a single bound
Are faster than a speeding bullet (rats, missed him again)
Are more powerful than a locomotive
Talk to God 

Sr. Managers leap short buildings with a running start
Are faster than a BB gun
Are more powerful than a streetcar
Ask God questions 

Midlevel DBAs can clear a single-story house most of the time
Can outrun the arrows that users shoot at them, with a head start
Get run over by bicycles
Beg God not to notice them 

Junior DBAs trip over the stoop
Wonder why there are holes in their body
Say ?Look at the choo-choo?
Make God mad by asking, ?What happens if I turn off the server?? 

Senior DBAs run through buildings
Eat the bullets
Throw the locomotive at the users
Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)!"

--- "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...
> 
> there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
> DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
> facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
> senior.
> 
> I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
> Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
> senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One
> doesn't
> wipe out the other
> 
> Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
> websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
> and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
> problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.
> 
> Rachel
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Orr, Steve
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Orr, Steve
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Freeman, Robert]

As I get older, I find that forgetting is an even more continuous
process

RF

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author: Oracle9i New Features 
Mastering Oracle8i    

Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree
burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin'
crazy.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


100% agreed with the goddess
No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much 
functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases 
and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988 
, I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all 
DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact

is, learning is a continous process

Regards
Rafiq




Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800

by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
--- Kevin Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 > I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities
 > other
 > than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .
 >
 > Look at it this way 
 > Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they
 > know the
 > most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not
 > mean
 > the know the most.
 >
 > I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be
 > guided
 > in the right way to do things.
 > After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their
 > own 
 > but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I
 > would
 > call them a Mid Level.
 > To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find
 > all
 > the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.
 >
 > If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about.
 >  Many
 > of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.
 >
 > As always ... just my opinion.
 >
 > Kevin
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 >
 >
 > Salary !
 >
 > Yechiel Adar
 > Mehish
 > - Original Message -
 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM
 >
 >
 > > Hello:
 > > Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA,
 > and a
 > > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would
 > be
 > > interested in knowing how other people might classify the
 > differences.
 > >
 > > Regards,
 > > Jay
 > >
 > >
 > > _
 > > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
 > > http://www.hotmail.com
 > >
 > > --
 > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 > > --
 > > Author: Jay Wade
 > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > >
 > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
 > Lists
 > >
 > 
 > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
 > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
 > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 > > also send the HELP command for other information (like
 > subscribing).
 >
 > --
 > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 > --
 > Author: Yechiel Adar
 >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
 > Lists
 > 
 > To REMOVE your

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Mohammad Rafiq]

RF,

You are still very young(if I am not wrong around 42) and should not be 
worried about that...

Regards
Rafiq


Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:55:02 -0800

As I get older, I find that forgetting is an even more continuous
process

RF

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author: Oracle9i New Features 
Mastering Oracle8i   

Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree
burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin'
crazy.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


100% agreed with the goddess
No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much
functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases
and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988
, I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all
DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact

is, learning is a continous process

Regards
Rafiq




Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800

by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...

there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are
facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't
senior.

I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One doesn't
wipe out the other

Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied
and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.

Rachel
--- Kevin Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  > I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities
  > other
  > than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) .
  >
  > Look at it this way 
  > Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they
  > know the
  > most.  Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not
  > mean
  > the know the most.
  >
  > I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own.  They need to be
  > guided
  > in the right way to do things.
  > After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their
  > own 
  > but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I
  > would
  > call them a Mid Level.
  > To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find
  > all
  > the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work.
  >
  > If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about.
  >  Many
  > of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels.
  >
  > As always ... just my opinion.
  >
  > Kevin
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM
  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  >
  >
  > Salary !
  >
  > Yechiel Adar
  > Mehish
  > - Original Message -
  > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM
  >
  >
  > > Hello:
  > > Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA,
  > and a
  > > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but would
  > be
  > > interested in knowing how other people might classify the
  > differences.
  > >
  > > Regards,
  > > Jay
  > >
  > >
  > > _
  > > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
  > > http://www.hotmail.com
  > >
  > > --
  > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
  > > --
  > > Author: Jay Wade
  > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  > >
  > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
  > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
  > Lists
  > >
  > 
  > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
  > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
  > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
  > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
  > > also send the HELP command for other information (like
  > subscribing).
  >
  > --
  > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: 

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

I would.. but that can't go in a book from Oracle Press as they are
associated with Oracle :)


--- "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You need to add one more line...
> 
> Senior DBAs run through buildings
> Eat the bullets
> Throw the locomotive at the users
> Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)!
> ... and know they are not Larry Ellison.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> okay, the definitive answer, from the soon to be released Oracle9i
> DBA
> 101, Theriault, Carmichael and Viscusi:
> 
> "This bit of humor was circulating around electronic mail a while
> ago.
> We don't know who wrote it, but it's a fun twist on an old joke:
> CIOs leap tall buildings in a single bound
> Are faster than a speeding bullet (rats, missed him again)
> Are more powerful than a locomotive
> Talk to God 
> 
> Sr. Managers leap short buildings with a running start
> Are faster than a BB gun
> Are more powerful than a streetcar
> Ask God questions 
> 
> Midlevel DBAs can clear a single-story house most of the time
> Can outrun the arrows that users shoot at them, with a head start
> Get run over by bicycles
> Beg God not to notice them 
> 
> Junior DBAs trip over the stoop
> Wonder why there are holes in their body
> Say ?Look at the choo-choo?
> Make God mad by asking, ?What happens if I turn off the server?? 
> 
> Senior DBAs run through buildings
> Eat the bullets
> Throw the locomotive at the users
> Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)!"
> 
> --- "Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain?
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Importance: High
> > 
> > 
> > by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba...
> > 
> > there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every
> > DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they
> are
> > facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you
> aren't
> > senior.
> > 
> > I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak
> > Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as
> > senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion.  One
> > doesn't
> > wipe out the other
> > 
> > Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and
> > websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together
> varied
> > and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a
> > problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it.
> > 
> > Rachel
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: Orr, Steve
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> > Lists
> >
> 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Orr, Steve
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official

Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Alexandre Gorbatchev]

Junior DBA's job is a learning.
Mid DBA's job is a science.
Sr. DBA's job is the Art.

Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else.
They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done.
Their intuition is of high degree.
... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the
priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression)

--
Alexandre

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Yechiel Adar]

Title: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA



We
Since I live in Israel I do not know the salaries 
ranges.
 
Senior DBA lives in Spain
Junior DAB lives in England
Midlevel DAB lived 200 years ago in Europe.

 
Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Richard Huntley 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:07 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, 
  Sr.DBA
  
  Yechiel...now I'm curious...where would you say (or anyone 
  else reading this) salary ranges should fall for each (jr, mid-level and 
  senior DBA's), other
  than senior DBA's maxing out at infinity? :) 
  -Original Message- From: 
  Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA 
  Salary ! 
  Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple 
  recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM 
  > Hello: > Out of curiosity how 
  would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a > Sr. DBA?  I know how our HR department makes the division but 
  would be > interested in knowing how other people 
  might classify the differences. > > Regards, > Jay > > > 
  _ 
  > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN 
  Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > 
  > -- > Please see the official 
  ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- 
  > Author: Jay Wade >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network 
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Fink, Dan]

I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning.
Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view tuning/troubleshooting as
an art (with a little magic thrown in)
Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a science,
requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of skepticism.

The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't know'. That
is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often times
the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know what
NOT to ask.

Reaction to reading Books/Documentation
Junior - I did not know that
Mid - I know that
Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it

When a developer/user asks for a change to the database
Junior - I'll look it up and change it
Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done
Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will cause
y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result.

When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error
Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We need more
information. '. Calls more senior help.
Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the
symptom.
Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition from
symptom through to actual problem.

Attends sessions at IOUG
Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about
and all vendor tools work as advertised.
Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all
other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach
Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what
Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus
preach

Knowledge level
Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know
Mid - Knows what they know
Senior - Knows what they don't know

Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal about
one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area.


Daniel W. Fink
Sr. Oracle DBA
MICROMEDEX
303.486.6456


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Junior DBA's job is a learning.
Mid DBA's job is a science.
Sr. DBA's job is the Art.

Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else.
They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done.
Their intuition is of high degree.
... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the
priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression)

--
Alexandre

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-- 
Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

>Attends sessions at IOUG
>Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking 
>about and all vendor tools work as advertised.
>Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and

>all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach
>Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) 
>what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy
Oracle 
>Gurus preach


I appreciate the compliment but I'm NOT in their league! I guess I'm
Senior -- I know what I don't know!




--- "Fink, Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning.
> Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view
> tuning/troubleshooting as
> an art (with a little magic thrown in)
> Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a
> science,
> requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of
> skepticism.
> 
> The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't
> know'. That
> is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often
> times
> the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know
> what
> NOT to ask.
> 
> Reaction to reading Books/Documentation
> Junior - I did not know that
> Mid - I know that
> Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it
> 
> When a developer/user asks for a change to the database
> Junior - I'll look it up and change it
> Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done
> Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will
> cause
> y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result.
> 
> When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error
> Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We
> need more
> information. '. Calls more senior help.
> Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the
> symptom.
> Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition
> from
> symptom through to actual problem.
> 
> Attends sessions at IOUG
> Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking
> about
> and all vendor tools work as advertised.
> Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja
> and all
> other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach
> Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems)
> what
> Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle
> Gurus
> preach
> 
> Knowledge level
> Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know
> Mid - Knows what they know
> Senior - Knows what they don't know
> 
> Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal
> about
> one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area.
> 
> 
> Daniel W. Fink
> Sr. Oracle DBA
> MICROMEDEX
> 303.486.6456
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Junior DBA's job is a learning.
> Mid DBA's job is a science.
> Sr. DBA's job is the Art.
> 
> Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else.
> They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done.
> Their intuition is of high degree.
> ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of
> the
> priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression)
> 
> --
> Alexandre
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> i
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Fink, Dan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Jack Silvey]

The jr thinks that she knows.
The mid knows that she knows.
The sr knows that she knows not.

Awareness of ignorance is the mark of true knowledge.

I like cake.

jack silvey


--- "Fink, Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning.
> Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view
> tuning/troubleshooting as
> an art (with a little magic thrown in)
> Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database
> management is a science,
> requiring research, expirementation and a very
> healthy dose of skepticism.
> 
> The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to
> say 'I don't know'. That
> is the only true path to learning. No one can know
> everything. Often times
> the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge
> since they don't know what
> NOT to ask.
> 
> Reaction to reading Books/Documentation
> Junior - I did not know that
> Mid - I know that
> Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it
> 
> When a developer/user asks for a change to the
> database
> Junior - I'll look it up and change it
> Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know
> when I am done
> Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you
> realize that x will cause
> y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the
> result.
> 
> When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown
> error
> Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a
> trace file. We need more
> information. '. Calls more
> senior help.
> Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the
> command. Fixes the
> symptom.
> Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present.
> Tracks condition from
> symptom through to actual problem.
> 
> Attends sessions at IOUG
> Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what
> they are talking about
> and all vendor tools work as advertised.
> Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig,
> Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all
> other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach
> Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non
> production systems) what
> Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other
> High Holy Oracle Gurus
> preach
> 
> Knowledge level
> Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know
> Mid - Knows what they know
> Senior - Knows what they don't know
> 
> Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may
> know a great deal about
> one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in
> another area.
> 
> 
> Daniel W. Fink
> Sr. Oracle DBA
> MICROMEDEX
> 303.486.6456
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Junior DBA's job is a learning.
> Mid DBA's job is a science.
> Sr. DBA's job is the Art.
> 
> Srs feel database, users, developers and everything
> else.
> They feel what, where, how, when and why should by
> done.
> Their intuition is of high degree.
> ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows
> everything. (so one of the
> priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression)
> 
> --
> Alexandre
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> i
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Fink, Dan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
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> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).


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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Freeman, Robert]

A few thoughts...

Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look.
Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it.
Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books.
Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper.

Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to
make.
Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes.
Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those
improvements and
 then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change.
Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and
updating the current Oracle
standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens
another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all
sorts of data inconsistencies,
redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of
Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements
the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips
in CD 4 of 5.

Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure
it's ok.
Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's
ok.
Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more
complicated changes
or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure
it is ok.
Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is
considered the grand-pobah
DBA because he really doesn't feel like one.

Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk.
Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk.
Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk.
Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his
desk OR he is writing
his latest book. 

Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken.
Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up
by long weekend and holiday changes.
Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times,
occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday
changes.
Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the
company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday
changes. Pager of cell phone always going off.






Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author: Oracle9i New Features 
Mastering Oracle8i    

Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree
burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin'
crazy.


--
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--
Author: Freeman, Robert
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN

(ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )



--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few thoughts...
> 
> Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look.
> Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find
> it.
> Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of
> books.
> Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper.
> 
> Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has
> to
> make.
> Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes.
> Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps
> implement those
> improvements and
>  then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change.
> Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on
> AIX, and
> updating the current Oracle
> standards manual for the department, when the change is requested.
> Opens
> another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing
> all
> sorts of data inconsistencies,
> redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3
> of 5 of
> Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements
> the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then
> flips
> in CD 4 of 5.
> 
> Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make
> sure
> it's ok.
> Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure
> it's
> ok.
> Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for
> more
> complicated changes
> or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make
> sure
> it is ok.
> Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he
> is
> considered the grand-pobah
> DBA because he really doesn't feel like one.
> 
> Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk.
> Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk.
> Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk.
> Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books
> on his
> desk OR he is writing
> his latest book. 
> 
> Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken.
> Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All
> made up
> by long weekend and holiday changes.
> Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three
> times,
> occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and
> holiday
> changes.
> Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of
> course the
> company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and
> holiday
> changes. Pager of cell phone always going off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
> Oracle DBA Technical Lead
> CSX Midtier Database Administration
> Author: Oracle9i New Features 
> Mastering Oracle8i
> 
> Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
> anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
> Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
> mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third
> degree
> burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start
> talkin'
> crazy.
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Freeman, Robert
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Freeman, Robert]

>> (ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )

Opens black looking suitcase with secret Nuclear launch codes,
chanting the mantra, there is always a solution.

Enjoying that new job?

RF


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author: Oracle9i New Features 
Mastering Oracle8i    

Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's
covered in third degree
burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin'
crazy.


--
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--
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

it's fun so far. and one of these days I'll get to do DBA work too..
right now I'm trying to "Teach yourself Data warehousing in 2 weeks"


--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> (ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )
> 
> Opens black looking suitcase with secret Nuclear launch codes,
> chanting the mantra, there is always a solution.
> 
> Enjoying that new job?
> 
> RF
> 
> 
> Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
> Oracle DBA Technical Lead
> CSX Midtier Database Administration
> Author: Oracle9i New Features 
> Mastering Oracle8i
> 
> Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
> Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your
> body's
> covered in third degree
> burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start
> talkin'
> crazy.
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Freeman, Robert
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Fink, Dan]

REAL DBAs have 28 Etch-A-Sketches configured as RAC with Big Chief Tablets
as their hot standby

Daniel W. Fink
Sr. Oracle DBA
MICROMEDEX
303.486.6456


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:01 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN

(ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )



--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few thoughts...
> 
> Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look.
> Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find
> it.
> Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of
> books.
> Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper.
> 
> Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has
> to
> make.
> Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes.
> Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps
> implement those
> improvements and
>  then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change.
> Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on
> AIX, and
> updating the current Oracle
> standards manual for the department, when the change is requested.
> Opens
> another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing
> all
> sorts of data inconsistencies,
> redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3
> of 5 of
> Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements
> the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then
> flips
> in CD 4 of 5.
> 
> Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make
> sure
> it's ok.
> Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure
> it's
> ok.
> Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for
> more
> complicated changes
> or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make
> sure
> it is ok.
> Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he
> is
> considered the grand-pobah
> DBA because he really doesn't feel like one.
> 
> Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk.
> Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk.
> Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk.
> Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books
> on his
> desk OR he is writing
> his latest book. 
> 
> Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken.
> Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All
> made up
> by long weekend and holiday changes.
> Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three
> times,
> occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and
> holiday
> changes.
> Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of
> course the
> company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and
> holiday
> changes. Pager of cell phone always going off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
> Oracle DBA Technical Lead
> CSX Midtier Database Administration
> Author: Oracle9i New Features 
> Mastering Oracle8i
> 
> Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
> anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
> Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
> mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third
> degree
> burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start
> talkin'
> crazy.
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Freeman, Robert
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Rachel Carmichael]

you win :)


--- "Fink, Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> REAL DBAs have 28 Etch-A-Sketches configured as RAC with Big Chief
> Tablets
> as their hot standby
> 
> Daniel W. Fink
> Sr. Oracle DBA
> MICROMEDEX
> 303.486.6456
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:01 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN
> 
> (ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )
> 
> 
> 
> --- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A few thoughts...
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look.
> > Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find
> > it.
> > Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of
> > books.
> > Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper.
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he
> has
> > to
> > make.
> > Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes.
> > Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps
> > implement those
> > improvements and
> >  then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change.
> > Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on
> > AIX, and
> > updating the current Oracle
> > standards manual for the department, when the change is requested.
> > Opens
> > another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up
> causing
> > all
> > sorts of data inconsistencies,
> > redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD
> 3
> > of 5 of
> > Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements
> > the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves.
> Then
> > flips
> > in CD 4 of 5.
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to
> make
> > sure
> > it's ok.
> > Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make
> sure
> > it's
> > ok.
> > Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but
> for
> > more
> > complicated changes
> > or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to
> make
> > sure
> > it is ok.
> > Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why
> he
> > is
> > considered the grand-pobah
> > DBA because he really doesn't feel like one.
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk.
> > Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk.
> > Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk.
> > Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books
> > on his
> > desk OR he is writing
> > his latest book. 
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken.
> > Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All
> > made up
> > by long weekend and holiday changes.
> > Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three
> > times,
> > occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and
> > holiday
> > changes.
> > Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of
> > course the
> > company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend
> and
> > holiday
> > changes. Pager of cell phone always going off.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
> > Oracle DBA Technical Lead
> > CSX Midtier Database Administration
> > Author: Oracle9i New Features 
> > Mastering Oracle8i
> > 
> > Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
> > anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
> > Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
> > mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third
> > degree
> > burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start
> > talkin'
> > crazy.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Freeman, Robert
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> > Lists
> >
> 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelli

Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[James J. Morrow]

I beg to differ.

All Real DBA's should be "platform independent".
(and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing
intense therapy).

-- James

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Better run like WIND!!  All Real DBA's use HP.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   5/31/2002 11:01 AM
> 
> AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN
> 
> (ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )
> 
> --- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A few thoughts...
> >

< SNIP >

> > Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on
> > AIX, and

< SNIP >

-- 

James J. Morrow E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Principal Consultant
Tenure Systems, Inc.
McKinney, TX, USA

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world:  the unreasonable man
  persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.  Therefore all progress
   depends on the unreasonable man."  -- George Bernard Shaw
-- 
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-- 
Author: James J. Morrow
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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[ltiu]

What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be wrong. 
What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it 
work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too.

ltiu

On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote:
> I beg to differ.
>
> All Real DBA's should be "platform independent".
> (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing
> intense therapy).
>
> -- James


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: ltiu
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Stephane Faroult]

ltiu wrote:
> 
> What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be wrong.
> What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it
> work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too.
> 
> ltiu
> 

Hmmm, Oracle and Microsoft are not fully compatible. There is no love
lost between Ellison and Gates. Historically, Oracle was a port to
Digital (remember this brand?) machines of IBM specs, and started its
conquest of the world from minicomputers; market forces being what they
are, Oracle came to run on M$ systems, but many (and especially older
hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for
running Access and possibly SQL Server. Whether it is founded or not is
another matter.

Concerning your assessment that the majority cannot be wrong, I admire
your faith in democracy.
   
-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
-- 
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-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Joe Testa]

What's wrong with M$, please, the ever crashing OS, need anything else 
be said?

And Stephane hit it perfectly.  As far as I remember(feel free to 
brutalize me if wrong), that M$, even back in the DOS days, was never a 
development platform for Oracle and I used V5 on 386 under DOS.

Let the flames begin.

Joe


Stephane Faroult wrote:

>ltiu wrote:
>
>>What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be wrong.
>>What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it
>>work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too.
>>
>>ltiu
>>
>
>Hmmm, Oracle and Microsoft are not fully compatible. There is no love
>lost between Ellison and Gates. Historically, Oracle was a port to
>Digital (remember this brand?) machines of IBM specs, and started its
>conquest of the world from minicomputers; market forces being what they
>are, Oracle came to run on M$ systems, but many (and especially older
>hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for
>running Access and possibly SQL Server. Whether it is founded or not is
>another matter.
>
>Concerning your assessment that the majority cannot be wrong, I admire
>your faith in democracy.
>   
>


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Joe Testa
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Aaron Birenboim]

Stephane Faroult wrote:

> ...Historically, Oracle was a port to
> Digital (remember this brand?)

Interesting.  I'm reading this list because of a recent
project to retire the Digital-Alpha workstations.
The main reason that these machines must be de-commissioned is
because Oracle stopped supporting Tru64.
(Although it needs to be done EVENTUALLY, since Alpha
  is basicly dead anyway.)

The Alphas were bought to retire the VMS from 4-7 years ago!

Talk about unfortunate planning!
-- 
Aaron Birenboim | The top three attributes of a good programmer:
Albuquerque, NM |Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
boim.com/~aaron | -- Randall Schwartz, author of perl references
-- 
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-- 
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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Nuno Souto]

- Original Message -


> What's wrong with M$, please, the ever crashing OS, need anything
else
> be said?


That's fixed on NT3.1/NT4/W2K/XP.  Promise.
Cross-my-heart-hope-to-die.  This time I
mean it.  For sure.  Honest.



Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
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-- 
Author: Nuno Souto
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Ganesh Raja]

Don't forget the Restart for Every Update Even if it is a security patch for
IE.

Best Regards,
Ganesh R
Tel  : +971 (4)  397 3337  Ext 420
Fax  : +971 (4)  397 6262
HP   : +971 (50) 745 6019

Live to learn... forget... and learn again. 




-Original Message-
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 4:58 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What's wrong with M$, please, the ever crashing OS, need anything else 
be said?

And Stephane hit it perfectly.  As far as I remember(feel free to 
brutalize me if wrong), that M$, even back in the DOS days, was never a 
development platform for Oracle and I used V5 on 386 under DOS.

Let the flames begin.

Joe


Stephane Faroult wrote:

>ltiu wrote:
>
>>What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be 
>>wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you 
>>can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then 
>>use it too.
>>
>>ltiu
>>
>
>Hmmm, Oracle and Microsoft are not fully compatible. There is no love 
>lost between Ellison and Gates. Historically, Oracle was a port to 
>Digital (remember this brand?) machines of IBM specs, and started its 
>conquest of the world from minicomputers; market forces being what they 
>are, Oracle came to run on M$ systems, but many (and especially older
>hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for 
>running Access and possibly SQL Server. Whether it is founded or not is 
>another matter.
>
>Concerning your assessment that the majority cannot be wrong, I admire 
>your faith in democracy.
>   
>


-- 
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-- 
Author: Joe Testa
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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Jared Still]

On Saturday 01 June 2002 17:43, ltiu wrote:
> What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be
> wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can

The majority cannot be wrong?  Since when?

History offers many examples of the majority being wrong, on many
different occasions.

The majority use MicroSlop because it is either shoved down their throats,
they are ignorant and don't know any better, or an application that is 
critical to them runs only on MS.

Jared


> make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it
> too.
>
> ltiu
>
> On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote:
> > I beg to differ.
> >
> > All Real DBA's should be "platform independent".
> > (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing
> > intense therapy).
> >
> > -- James
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jared Still
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Yechiel Adar]

Hello Itiu

You wrote: 

We have a saying: zillions flies can not be wrong, eat shit.

BTW - We use NT servers.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:43 AM


> What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be
wrong.
> What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it
> work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too.
>
> ltiu
>
> On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote:
> > I beg to differ.
> >
> > All Real DBA's should be "platform independent".
> > (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be
undergoing
> > intense therapy).
> >
> > -- James
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: ltiu
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
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> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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Author: Yechiel Adar
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Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Tim Gorman]

...and what makes you think that we all don't?  Do you know anything about
how wine and beer are made?

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:43 AM


> Hello Itiu
>
> You wrote: 
>
> We have a saying: zillions flies can not be wrong, eat shit.
>
> BTW - We use NT servers.
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:43 AM
>
>
> > What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : > The majority cannot be
> wrong.
> > What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it
> > work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too.
> >
> > ltiu
> >
> > On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote:
> > > I beg to differ.
> > >
> > > All Real DBA's should be "platform independent".
> > > (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be
> undergoing
> > > intense therapy).
> > >
> > > -- James
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: ltiu
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Yechiel Adar
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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-- 
Author: Tim Gorman
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Freeman, Robert]

>> but many (and especially older hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to
be for wimps, 
>> just good for running Access and possibly SQL Server.

Yea... and I'm sure that there are those "older hands" that would prefer the
days of the 
card punching return  :-)) Old habits and ways are hard to change. While
I'm not a M$
fan. I'm thankful that I can run a copy of Oracle on it to develop and
test with at
home on my ownI might even run a production system on it... a very
unimportant
production system.

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author: Oracle9i New Features 
Mastering Oracle8i    
--
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Author: Freeman, Robert
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RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Bob Lofstrand]

The Jr knows the passwords and where to find the databases. (Data)
The Mid knows the answers to the exam questions. (Information)
The Sr knows how the systems integrate and where to find things out.
(Knowledge)
The Guru knows the engine internals but also knows to test for 'features'.
(Wisdom)

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


The jr thinks that she knows.
The mid knows that she knows.
The sr knows that she knows not.

Awareness of ignorance is the mark of true knowledge.

I like cake.

jack silvey


--- "Fink, Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning.
> Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view
> tuning/troubleshooting as
> an art (with a little magic thrown in)
> Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database
> management is a science,
> requiring research, expirementation and a very
> healthy dose of skepticism.
> 
> The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to
> say 'I don't know'. That
> is the only true path to learning. No one can know
> everything. Often times
> the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge
> since they don't know what
> NOT to ask.
> 
> Reaction to reading Books/Documentation
> Junior - I did not know that
> Mid - I know that
> Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it
> 
> When a developer/user asks for a change to the
> database
> Junior - I'll look it up and change it
> Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know
> when I am done
> Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you
> realize that x will cause
> y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the
> result.
> 
> When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown
> error
> Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a
> trace file. We need more
> information. '. Calls more
> senior help.
> Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the
> command. Fixes the
> symptom.
> Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present.
> Tracks condition from
> symptom through to actual problem.
> 
> Attends sessions at IOUG
> Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what
> they are talking about
> and all vendor tools work as advertised.
> Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig,
> Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all
> other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach
> Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non
> production systems) what
> Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other
> High Holy Oracle Gurus
> preach
> 
> Knowledge level
> Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know
> Mid - Knows what they know
> Senior - Knows what they don't know
> 
> Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may
> know a great deal about
> one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in
> another area.
> 
> 
> Daniel W. Fink
> Sr. Oracle DBA
> MICROMEDEX
> 303.486.6456
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Junior DBA's job is a learning.
> Mid DBA's job is a science.
> Sr. DBA's job is the Art.
> 
> Srs feel database, users, developers and everything
> else.
> They feel what, where, how, when and why should by
> done.
> Their intuition is of high degree.
> ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows
> everything. (so one of the
> priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression)
> 
> --
> Alexandre
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> i
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Fink, Dan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).


__
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jack Silvey
  INET

Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Bunyamin Karadeniz]

That is my opinion ..

Jr. learns the methods.
Mid. knows the methods and predicts the results of some.
Sr. had used all of them and knows the results.
Guru seems to know the database internal code.

Bunyamin Karadeniz



- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:50 PM


> The Jr knows the passwords and where to find the databases. (Data)
> The Mid knows the answers to the exam questions. (Information)
> The Sr knows how the systems integrate and where to find things out.
> (Knowledge)
> The Guru knows the engine internals but also knows to test for 'features'.
> (Wisdom)
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:11 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> The jr thinks that she knows.
> The mid knows that she knows.
> The sr knows that she knows not.
>
> Awareness of ignorance is the mark of true knowledge.
>
> I like cake.
>
> jack silvey
>
>
> --- "Fink, Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning.
> > Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view
> > tuning/troubleshooting as
> > an art (with a little magic thrown in)
> > Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database
> > management is a science,
> > requiring research, expirementation and a very
> > healthy dose of skepticism.
> >
> > The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to
> > say 'I don't know'. That
> > is the only true path to learning. No one can know
> > everything. Often times
> > the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge
> > since they don't know what
> > NOT to ask.
> >
> > Reaction to reading Books/Documentation
> > Junior - I did not know that
> > Mid - I know that
> > Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it
> >
> > When a developer/user asks for a change to the
> > database
> > Junior - I'll look it up and change it
> > Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know
> > when I am done
> > Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you
> > realize that x will cause
> > y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the
> > result.
> >
> > When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown
> > error
> > Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a
> > trace file. We need more
> > information. '. Calls more
> > senior help.
> > Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the
> > command. Fixes the
> > symptom.
> > Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present.
> > Tracks condition from
> > symptom through to actual problem.
> >
> > Attends sessions at IOUG
> > Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what
> > they are talking about
> > and all vendor tools work as advertised.
> > Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig,
> > Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all
> > other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach
> > Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non
> > production systems) what
> > Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other
> > High Holy Oracle Gurus
> > preach
> >
> > Knowledge level
> > Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know
> > Mid - Knows what they know
> > Senior - Knows what they don't know
> >
> > Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may
> > know a great deal about
> > one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in
> > another area.
> >
> >
> > Daniel W. Fink
> > Sr. Oracle DBA
> > MICROMEDEX
> > 303.486.6456
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Junior DBA's job is a learning.
> > Mid DBA's job is a science.
> > Sr. DBA's job is the Art.
> >
> > Srs feel database, users, developers and everything
> > else.
> > They feel what, where, how, when and why should by
> > done.
> > Their intuition is of high degree.
> > ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows
> > everything. (so one of the
> > priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression)
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> > (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> > access / Mailing Lists
> >
> 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> > E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> > 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information
> > (like subscribing).
> > i
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Fink, Dan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> > (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> > access / Mailing Lists
> >
> --

RE: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Weaver, Walt]

You guys are rookies. The Gods all use Linux.

--Walt

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:17 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Better run like WIND!!  All Real DBA's use HP.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/31/2002 11:01 AM

AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN

(ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )



--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few thoughts...
> 
> Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look.
> Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find
> it.
> Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of
> books.
> Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper.
> 
> Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has
> to
> make.
> Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes.
> Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps
> implement those
> improvements and
>  then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change.
> Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on
> AIX, and
> updating the current Oracle
> standards manual for the department, when the change is requested.
> Opens
> another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing
> all
> sorts of data inconsistencies,
> redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3
> of 5 of
> Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements
> the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then
> flips
> in CD 4 of 5.
> 
> Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make
> sure
> it's ok.
> Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure
> it's
> ok.
> Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for
> more
> complicated changes
> or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make
> sure
> it is ok.
> Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he
> is
> considered the grand-pobah
> DBA because he really doesn't feel like one.
> 
> Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk.
> Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk.
> Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk.
> Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books
> on his
> desk OR he is writing
> his latest book. 
> 
> Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken.
> Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All
> made up
> by long weekend and holiday changes.
> Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three
> times,
> occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and
> holiday
> changes.
> Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of
> course the
> company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and
> holiday
> changes. Pager of cell phone always going off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
> Oracle DBA Technical Lead
> CSX Midtier Database Administration
> Author: Oracle9i New Features 
> Mastering Oracle8i
> 
> Clark Griswold  : Eddie, has
> anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
> Cousin Eddie  : Those were my
> mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third
> degree
> burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start
> talkin'
> crazy.
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Freeman, Robert
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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RE: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA

[Scott . Shafer]

So that's why the Gods died out...

Hehehe...

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210-581-6217


> -Original Message-
> From: Weaver, Walt [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:39 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:      RE: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
> 
> You guys are rookies. The Gods all use Linux.
> 
> --Walt
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:17 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Better run like WIND!!  All Real DBA's use HP.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   5/31/2002 11:01 AM
> 
> AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN
> 
> (ducking and running broken field pattern :)  )
> 
> 
> 
> --- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A few thoughts...
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look.
> > Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find
> > it.
> > Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of
> > books.
> > Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper.
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has
> > to
> > make.
> > Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes.
> > Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps
> > implement those
> > improvements and
> >  then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change.
> > Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on
> > AIX, and
> > updating the current Oracle
> > standards manual for the department, when the change is requested.
> > Opens
> > another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing
> > all
> > sorts of data inconsistencies,
> > redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3
> > of 5 of
> > Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements
> > the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then
> > flips
> > in CD 4 of 5.
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make
> > sure
> > it's ok.
> > Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure
> > it's
> > ok.
> > Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for
> > more
> > complicated changes
> > or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make
> > sure
> > it is ok.
> > Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he
> > is
> > considered the grand-pobah
> > DBA because he really doesn't feel like one.
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk.
> > Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk.
> > Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk.
> > Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books
> > on his
> > desk OR he is writing
> > his latest book. 
> > 
> > Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken.
> > Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All
> > made up
> > by long weekend and holiday changes.
> > Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three
> > times,
> > occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and
> > holiday
> > changes.
> > Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of
> > course the
> > company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and
> > holiday
> > changes. Pager of cell phone always going off.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
> > Oracle DBA Technical Lead
> > CSX Midtier Database Administration
> > Author: Oracle9i New Features 
> > Mastering Oracle8i
> > 
> > Clark Griswold <http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy> : Eddie, has
> > anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
> > Cousin Eddie <http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy> : Those were my
> > mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third
> > degree
> > burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start
> > talkin'
> > crazy.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Freeman, Robert
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>