Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Jared . Still]

Wow!  What a Freudian slip.

I had intended to type 'Microsoft', though I
was *thinking* Microslop.

Jared





Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 09/30/2002 07:03 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Microslop is not a private company, and has not
been for quite some years now.

Jared

On Monday 30 September 2002 03:33, Yechiel Adar wrote:
> DENNIS, I think that I did not explain my idea.
>
> I do not understand the complain of Thomas.
> I do not see any harm in a company choosing its dealers based
> on their commitment to the goals of my company.
>
> Microsoft has a right to prefer dealer who embrace the .net,
> or do you think that anybody have the right to tell a PRIVATE
> company who to deal with?
>
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:18 PM
>
> > Yechiel - But all things are NEVER equal. So companies end up doing
> > stupid things because of some larger motive. You end up buying crappy
> > computers because your boss thinks it will impress the CEO with how 
you
> > are loyally supporting someone that somehow supports your company.
> > Ironic isn't it. When the PC industry began, the computer industry
> > was firmly dominated by IBM. PC enthusiasts were a bunch of 
starry-eyed
>
> dreamers
>
> > that though they could wrestle computing away from the computer
> > priesthood and bring freedom to everyman. In many ways the Internet 
has
> > made that
>
> dream
>
> > come true. But then we have Microsoft talking about creating a new
>
> security
>
> > system for my computer that on one hand will protect me from bad 
things
>
> and
>
> > on the other hand will protect the products of large corporations from
> > me. In a great number of ways Microsoft resembles the IBM of the past.
> > 
> >   Of course Larry Ellison only wishes he had these type of issues 
to
> > deal with.
> > 
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:43 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > What exactly is your problem?
> >
> > Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.
> > You need to buy a computer system.
> > One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless 
office.
> > All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
> >
> > Yechiel Adar
> > Mehish
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM
> >
> >
> > This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm
>
> not
>
> > a business
> > guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
> > common practice
> > by MS?
> >
> > It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
> > understand all the various approaches to "web services" (also known as
>
> "grid
>
> > computing" -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative 
is
> > their approach to this grand overarching software strategy.
> >
> > There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
> > dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from
> >
> > Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
> > our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors
>
> will
>
> > be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, 
has
>
> the
>
> > vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to 
make
>
> our
>
> > global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point
>
> alone,
>
> > but it's not something we are going to ignore either.
> >
> > Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
> > Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California

Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Jared Still]

Microslop is not a private company, and has not
been for quite some years now.

Jared

On Monday 30 September 2002 03:33, Yechiel Adar wrote:
> DENNIS, I think that I did not explain my idea.
>
> I do not understand the complain of Thomas.
> I do not see any harm in a company choosing its dealers based
> on their commitment to the goals of my company.
>
> Microsoft has a right to prefer dealer who embrace the .net,
> or do you think that anybody have the right to tell a PRIVATE
> company who to deal with?
>
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:18 PM
>
> > Yechiel - But all things are NEVER equal. So companies end up doing
> > stupid things because of some larger motive. You end up buying crappy
> > computers because your boss thinks it will impress the CEO with how you
> > are loyally supporting someone that somehow supports your company.
> > Ironic isn't it. When the PC industry began, the computer industry
> > was firmly dominated by IBM. PC enthusiasts were a bunch of starry-eyed
>
> dreamers
>
> > that though they could wrestle computing away from the computer
> > priesthood and bring freedom to everyman. In many ways the Internet has
> > made that
>
> dream
>
> > come true. But then we have Microsoft talking about creating a new
>
> security
>
> > system for my computer that on one hand will protect me from bad things
>
> and
>
> > on the other hand will protect the products of large corporations from
> > me. In a great number of ways Microsoft resembles the IBM of the past.
> > 
> >   Of course Larry Ellison only wishes he had these type of issues to
> > deal with.
> > 
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:43 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > What exactly is your problem?
> >
> > Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.
> > You need to buy a computer system.
> > One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
> > All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
> >
> > Yechiel Adar
> > Mehish
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > To: Multiple   recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM
> >
> >
> > This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm
>
> not
>
> > a business
> > guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
> > common practice
> > by MS?
> >
> > It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
> > understand all the various approaches to "web services" (also known as
>
> "grid
>
> > computing" -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
> > their approach to this grand overarching software strategy.
> >
> > There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
> > dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from
> >
> > Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
> > our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors
>
> will
>
> > be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has
>
> the
>
> > vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make
>
> our
>
> > global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point
>
> alone,
>
> > but it's not something we are going to ignore either.
> >
> > Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
> > Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jared Still
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also se

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Yechiel - Sorry, I was reacting to your analogy of the paper company. I
agree that dealers are an entirely different matter. 

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 5:33 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


DENNIS, I think that I did not explain my idea.

I do not understand the complain of Thomas.
I do not see any harm in a company choosing its dealers based
on their commitment to the goals of my company.

Microsoft has a right to prefer dealer who embrace the .net,
or do you think that anybody have the right to tell a PRIVATE
company who to deal with?


Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:18 PM


> Yechiel - But all things are NEVER equal. So companies end up doing stupid
> things because of some larger motive. You end up buying crappy computers
> because your boss thinks it will impress the CEO with how you are loyally
> supporting someone that somehow supports your company.
> Ironic isn't it. When the PC industry began, the computer industry was
> firmly dominated by IBM. PC enthusiasts were a bunch of starry-eyed
dreamers
> that though they could wrestle computing away from the computer priesthood
> and bring freedom to everyman. In many ways the Internet has made that
dream
> come true. But then we have Microsoft talking about creating a new
security
> system for my computer that on one hand will protect me from bad things
and
> on the other hand will protect the products of large corporations from me.
> In a great number of ways Microsoft resembles the IBM of the past.
> 
>   Of course Larry Ellison only wishes he had these type of issues to
> deal with.
> 
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:43 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> What exactly is your problem?
>
> Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.
> You need to buy a computer system.
> One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
> All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
>
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple   recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM
>
>
> This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm
not
> a business
> guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
> common practice
> by MS?
>
> It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
> understand all the various approaches to "web services" (also known as
"grid
> computing" -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
> their approach to this grand overarching software strategy.
>
> There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
> dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from
>
> Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
> our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors
will
> be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has
the
> vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make
our
> global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point
alone,
> but it's not something we are going to ignore either.
>
> Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
> Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING.
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Yechiel Adar
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L 

Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Yechiel Adar]

DENNIS, I think that I did not explain my idea.

I do not understand the complain of Thomas.
I do not see any harm in a company choosing its dealers based
on their commitment to the goals of my company.

Microsoft has a right to prefer dealer who embrace the .net,
or do you think that anybody have the right to tell a PRIVATE
company who to deal with?


Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:18 PM


> Yechiel - But all things are NEVER equal. So companies end up doing stupid
> things because of some larger motive. You end up buying crappy computers
> because your boss thinks it will impress the CEO with how you are loyally
> supporting someone that somehow supports your company.
> Ironic isn't it. When the PC industry began, the computer industry was
> firmly dominated by IBM. PC enthusiasts were a bunch of starry-eyed
dreamers
> that though they could wrestle computing away from the computer priesthood
> and bring freedom to everyman. In many ways the Internet has made that
dream
> come true. But then we have Microsoft talking about creating a new
security
> system for my computer that on one hand will protect me from bad things
and
> on the other hand will protect the products of large corporations from me.
> In a great number of ways Microsoft resembles the IBM of the past.
> 
>   Of course Larry Ellison only wishes he had these type of issues to
> deal with.
> 
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:43 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> What exactly is your problem?
>
> Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.
> You need to buy a computer system.
> One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
> All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
>
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple   recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM
>
>
> This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm
not
> a business
> guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
> common practice
> by MS?
>
> It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
> understand all the various approaches to "web services" (also known as
"grid
> computing" -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
> their approach to this grand overarching software strategy.
>
> There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
> dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from
>
> Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
> our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors
will
> be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has
the
> vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make
our
> global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point
alone,
> but it's not something we are going to ignore either.
>
> Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
> Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING.
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Yechiel Adar
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

My issue is that you are among the "technological elite". First of all you
are sophisticated enough to recognize that Microsoft isn't the only
alternative. Second, you are competent to install an alternative solution
and put up with any deficiencies. Everyone like yourselves could switch to
OpenOffice and StarOffice and it wouldn't worry Bill a bit. Even if these
suites are exactly like Microsoft Office in every respect.
   At the typical organization, Microsoft is the default solution and if you
want to push an alternative to Microsoft Office, you have a battle on your
hands and you will be blamed for any irritations, even where your
alternative solution works exactly like Microsoft. People who hate
computers, and there are many, aren't necessarily logical. I have a friend
who is a network administrator at a small nonprofit and he quickly and
wisely chose to abandon the Microsoft-alternative path. 
 
Oracle sometimes gets the advantage of being the default database
choice.
I have heard that MS SQL tends to be looked down on as "cheap".
 

I feel it is time to abandon this thread.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:23 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Then there's OpenOffice.  Very nice.  http://www.openoffice.org - I use it
regularly and have had no problems.

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210.581.6217


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:28 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re:RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Actually migrating to StarOffice is pretty simple.  We would have done
> so a
> year ago, but the mail package we're using would not budge.  Damn Lotus.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   9/26/2002 12:37 PM
> 
> Yeah, I saw that one and thought "how hard can that be?". Just raise
> license
> fees again. What are corporations going to do? Switch to StarOffice? Do
> that
> and all the users will insist that they much have pure MS.
>  
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:57 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> Speaking of R&D, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to
> pump
> $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve $20,000,000,000.00
> per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want to dominate
> the
> desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't anyone slay this
> beast?
>  
> It's an evil world in which we live...
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Thomas Day]

"Bad sales Dweeb.  No more doughnuts for you!"

"Mad about money my name might suggest,
But good taste about nothing describes me the best."



   

"Mercadante,   

Thomas F"To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
 

Sent by: root  

   

   

09/26/2002 

10:23 AM   

Please 

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   






Exactly.

In  other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him
"bye-bye now",  "no-more-sales-for-you".

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:43  AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What exactly is your problem?

Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.
You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate  paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your  business to??

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13  AM

This came to our DBA team  today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm
not a  business
guy, just a plain old  Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
common  practice
by MS?

   It is important from an  Architecture point of view that we understand
   all the various approaches  to "web services" (also known as "grid
   computing" -- see my recent  report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
   their approach to this  grand overarching software strategy.

   There is a second reason why we  might be interested specifically in dot
   Net.   Subsidiary XYZ  earns $xyz a year for us from

   Microsoft by [performing certain  services], etc.  Microsoft has told
   our management that one of  their criteria for evaluating their vendors
   will be how good of a MS  customer is the potential vendor.
   Specifically, has the vendor   bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now
   we aren't going to make  our global enterprise solutions strategy
   decisions based upon that point  alone, but it's not something we are
   going to ignore either.

   Therefore, I support  investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net,
   but I emphasize the word  INVESTIGATING.





--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Thomas Day
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Scott . Shafer]

Then there's OpenOffice.  Very nice.  http://www.openoffice.org - I use it
regularly and have had no problems.

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210.581.6217


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:28 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re:RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Actually migrating to StarOffice is pretty simple.  We would have done
> so a
> year ago, but the mail package we're using would not budge.  Damn Lotus.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   9/26/2002 12:37 PM
> 
> Yeah, I saw that one and thought "how hard can that be?". Just raise
> license
> fees again. What are corporations going to do? Switch to StarOffice? Do
> that
> and all the users will insist that they much have pure MS.
>  
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:57 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> Speaking of R&D, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to
> pump
> $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve $20,000,000,000.00
> per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want to dominate
> the
> desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't anyone slay this
> beast?
>  
> It's an evil world in which we live...
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Yeah, I saw that one and thought "how hard can that be?". Just raise license
fees again. What are corporations going to do? Switch to StarOffice? Do that
and all the users will insist that they much have pure MS.
 



Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Speaking of R&D, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to pump
$3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve $20,000,000,000.00
per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want to dominate the
desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't anyone slay this
beast?
 
It's an evil world in which we live...
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I view a R&D project not as "adding value to the business", but training for
myself. Everytime I have participated on an R&D project I have learned a
significant amount and have gained invaluable experience!
 
If you go in expecting to throw away all of your "work", you will be
frustrated. If you go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in
a "real world" setting, then you'll come away enriched by the experience!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


you obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  they really
suck.  
you end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  your report
ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 months later,
they ask the same questions.
 
the biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research
projects.
 
unless you *really* like doing them.
 

Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word
INVESTIGATING. "
 
What is better  than R&D projects? At the end one wins no matter what.
Knowing more does not hurt, does it?
 
inka
 
 
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:23 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Exactly.
 
In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye
now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
 
Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list   ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM


This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not
a business 
guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
common practice 
by MS? 

It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
understand all the various approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid
computing" -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 

There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 

Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will
be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the
vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our
global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone,
but it's not something we are going to ignore either.

Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[ltiu]

Nothing wrong with dominating as long as the rule "the better product 
wins" is followed (i.e. not through foul play like forcing Dell or HP to 
bundle MSOffice or else they can't sell MSWindows with their PC's).

ltiu

Orr, Steve wrote:

> Speaking of R&D, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to 
> pump $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve 
> $20,000,000,000.00 per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like 
> they want to dominate the desktop with more that just the O/S and 
> browser. Can't anyone slay this beast?
>  
> It's an evil world in which we live...
>
>



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: ltiu
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Orr, Steve]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Speaking of R&D, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going 
to pump $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve 
$20,000,000,000.00 per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want 
to dominate the desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't 
anyone slay this beast?
 
It's 
an evil world in which we live...
 

  -Original Message-From: Toepke, Kevin M 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  10:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  I 
  view a R&D project not as "adding value to the business", 
  but training for myself. Everytime I have participated on an R&D 
  project I have learned a significant amount and have gained invaluable 
  experience!
   
  If 
  you go in expecting to throw away all of your "work", you will be frustrated. 
  If you go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in a "real 
  world" setting, then you'll come away enriched by the 
  experience!
  
-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
you obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  
they really suck.  
you end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  
your report ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 
months later, they ask the same questions.
 
the biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these 
research projects.
 
unless you *really* like doing them.
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  Well,
  regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating 
  SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
  INVESTIGATING. "
   
  What is better  than R&D projects? At 
  the end one wins no matter what. Knowing more does not hurt, does 
  it?
   
  inka
   
   
  -Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
      2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
Exactly.
 
In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell 
him "bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
  2002 9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft 
  Blackmail
  What exactly is your 
problem?
   
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells 
  paper. 
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other 
  advocate paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give 
  your business to??
   
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas 
Jeff 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   
I'm not a business guy, 
just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me 
off.   Is it common practice by MS? 

  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
  approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- 
  see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is 
  their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 
  
  There is a second reason 
  why we might be interested specifically in dot Net.   
  Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing 
  certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management 
  that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be 
  how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  
  Specifically, has the vendor  bought in to the dot Net 
   

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Inka Bezdziecka]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail




Don't you 
think that the constant search for the nirvana of us all - a perfect solution to 
somebody else's problems includes pulling off the shelf that report written a 
long time ago?
 
In 
addition, reports are just side effects of  "knowing 
better".  Are they not?
 
I have been 
learning new, newer and the newest since the down of time. When dinosaurs 
roamed through the thousands of square meters of computer rooms 
hosting magic machines with less computing power than garage door openers 
of today and when rubber mallets 
were basic tools of all smart computer operators  it was easy to know it 
all.
 
Now adding one 
to the fifth digit after the decimal point on the knowledge scale of anyone 
but Mr.Data is a challenge. 
 
Getting a 
chance to know better seems like a pretty good deal to me, even if a dreaded 
report has to be produced. After all, it is at least one of reasons why we all 
subscribe to this list - to know better. 
 
grandma 
inka
 
 
 -Original 
Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

  you 
  obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  they really 
  suck.  
  you 
  end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  your report 
  ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 months later, 
  they ask the same questions.
   
  the 
  biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research 
  projects.
   
  unless you *really* like doing them.
   
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL 
server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. "
 
What is better  than R&D projects? At the 
end one wins no matter what. Knowing more does not hurt, does 
it?
 
inka
 
 
-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

  Exactly.
   
  In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him 
  "bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
   
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other 
advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give 
your business to??
 
Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas 
  Jeff 
  To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
  2002 1:13 AM
  Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
  Blackmail
  
  This came to our DBA team 
  today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm 
  not a business guy, just a 
  plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it 
  common practice by 
  MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see 
my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their 
approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason 
why we might be interested specifically in dot Net.   
Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing 
certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management 
that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how 
good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, 
has the vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  
Now we aren't going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy 
decisions based upon that point alone, but it's not something we are 
going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support 
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the 
word INVESTIGATING. 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



you're 
right.  I was reliving some of the bad experiences I've had with this, 
rather than remembering when I learned something usefull!  good 
point.
 

  -Original Message-From: Toepke, Kevin M 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  12:54 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  I 
  view a R&D project not as "adding value to the business", 
  but training for myself. Everytime I have participated on an R&D 
  project I have learned a significant amount and have gained invaluable 
  experience!
   
  If 
  you go in expecting to throw away all of your "work", you will be frustrated. 
  If you go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in a "real 
  world" setting, then you'll come away enriched by the 
  experience!
  
-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
you obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  
they really suck.  
you end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  
your report ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 
months later, they ask the same questions.
 
the biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these 
research projects.
 
unless you *really* like doing them.
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  Well,
  regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating 
  SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
  INVESTIGATING. "
   
  What is better  than R&D projects? At 
  the end one wins no matter what. Knowing more does not hurt, does 
  it?
   
  inka
   
   
  -Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
      2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
Exactly.
 
In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell 
him "bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
      2002 9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft 
  Blackmail
  What exactly is your 
problem?
   
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells 
  paper. 
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other 
  advocate paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give 
  your business to??
   
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas 
Jeff 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   
I'm not a business guy, 
just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me 
off.   Is it common practice by MS? 

  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
  approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- 
  see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is 
  their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 
  
  There is a second reason 
  why we might be interested specifically in dot Net.   
  Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing 
  certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management 
  that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be 
  how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  
  Specifically, has the vendor  bought in to the dot Net 
  strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our global 
  enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point 
  alone, but it's not something we are going 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Toepke, Kevin M]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



I view 
a R&D project not as "adding value to the business", 
but training for myself. Everytime I have participated on an R&D 
project I have learned a significant amount and have gained invaluable 
experience!
 
If you 
go in expecting to throw away all of your "work", you will be frustrated. If you 
go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in a "real world" 
setting, then you'll come away enriched by the experience!

  -Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  you 
  obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  they really 
  suck.  
  you 
  end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  your report 
  ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 months later, 
  they ask the same questions.
   
  the 
  biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research 
  projects.
   
  unless you *really* like doing them.
   
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL 
server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. "
 
What is better  than R&D projects? At the 
end one wins no matter what. Knowing more does not hurt, does 
it?
 
inka
 
 
-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

  Exactly.
   
  In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him 
  "bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
   
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other 
advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give 
your business to??
 
Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas 
  Jeff 
  To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
  2002 1:13 AM
  Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
  Blackmail
  
  This came to our DBA team 
  today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm 
  not a business guy, just a 
  plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it 
  common practice by 
  MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see 
my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their 
approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason 
why we might be interested specifically in dot Net.   
Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing 
certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management 
that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how 
good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, 
has the vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  
Now we aren't going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy 
decisions based upon that point alone, but it's not something we are 
going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support 
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the 
word INVESTIGATING. 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



you 
obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  they really 
suck.  
you 
end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  your report ends 
up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 months later, they 
ask the same questions.
 
the 
biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research 
projects.
 
unless 
you *really* like doing them.
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  Well,
  regardless of MS tactics, the 
  last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz 
  Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 
  "
   
  What 
  is better  than R&D projects? At the end one wins no matter what. 
  Knowing more does not hurt, does it?
   
  inka
   
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
Exactly.
 
In 
other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye 
now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  What exactly is your problem?
   
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
  
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other 
  advocate paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give your 
  business to??
   
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas Jeff 

To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm 
not a business guy, just a 
plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it 
common practice by MS? 


  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
  approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my 
  recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach 
  to this grand overarching software strategy. 
  There is a second reason why 
  we might be interested specifically in dot Net.   Subsidiary 
  XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing 
  certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management 
  that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how 
  good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has 
  the vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we 
  aren't going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy 
  decisions based upon that point alone, but it's not something we are 
  going to ignore either.
  Therefore, I support 
  investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the 
  word INVESTIGATING. 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Yechiel - But all things are NEVER equal. So companies end up doing stupid
things because of some larger motive. You end up buying crappy computers
because your boss thinks it will impress the CEO with how you are loyally
supporting someone that somehow supports your company.
Ironic isn't it. When the PC industry began, the computer industry was
firmly dominated by IBM. PC enthusiasts were a bunch of starry-eyed dreamers
that though they could wrestle computing away from the computer priesthood
and bring freedom to everyman. In many ways the Internet has made that dream
come true. But then we have Microsoft talking about creating a new security
system for my computer that on one hand will protect me from bad things and
on the other hand will protect the products of large corporations from me.
In a great number of ways Microsoft resembles the IBM of the past. 

  Of course Larry Ellison only wishes he had these type of issues to
deal with.

 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
 
Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple   recipients of list ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM


This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not
a business 
guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
common practice 
by MS? 

It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
understand all the various approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid
computing" -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 

There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 

Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will
be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the
vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our
global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone,
but it's not something we are going to ignore either.

Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 


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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Inka Bezdziecka]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the 
last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, 
and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. "
 
What 
is better  than R&D projects? At the end one wins no matter what. 
Knowing more does not hurt, does it?
 
inka
 
 
-Original 
Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

  Exactly.
   
  In 
  other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye 
  now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
   
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
    ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate 
paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your 
business to??
 
Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas Jeff 
  
  To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  1:13 AM
  Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail
  
  This came to our DBA team 
  today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not 
  a business guy, just a plain 
  old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it common 
  practice by MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches 
to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason why we 
might be interested specifically in dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ 
earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing 
certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management that 
one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a 
MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the 
vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't 
going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based 
upon that point alone, but it's not something we are going to ignore 
either.
Therefore, I support 
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the 
word INVESTIGATING. 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Bishop Lewis]

>If you want them to shut up and play nice(r) then I'd strongly
>suggest having a few prominent G3's around on desktops and at
>least one server (say file + print running Samba) with an RH
>or SuSE sitcker on it next to the NT boxes on your rack. See
>if that helps them understand your point of view...

Yes, this is quite an important point. MS's biggest selling point in the
past is that previously you had no choice. You do now.

MS Sales Rep: "Mac's are too complex, and Linux is hard to administer"

You: Err - no I don't think so - look over there - we currently run with
Linux servers performing mail, file and print server functions - and did you
know that they cost of ownership is competitive to MS even after we consider
specialised Linux skills costs?

Lewis Bishop
---
Barclays Enable/ISS/OPTS - Oracle Database Consultant
Phone - 020 8298 3418
Mobile - 07950 380857
Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Exactly.
 
In 
other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye now", 
"no-more-sales-for-you".
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:43 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
  MIcrosoft Blackmail
  What exactly is your problem?
   
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
  
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate 
  paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give your 
  business to??
   
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas Jeff 

To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 

Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 
AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not a 
business guy, just a plain old 
Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it common 
practice by MS? 

  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches 
  to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
  report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
  grand overarching software strategy. 
  There is a second reason why we 
  might be interested specifically in dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ 
  earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing certain 
  services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management that one of 
  their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a MS 
  customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the vendor  
  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make 
  our global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point 
  alone, but it's not something we are going to ignore either.
  Therefore, I support 
  investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
  INVESTIGATING. 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Steven Lembark]

> Remember, sales-dweebs can say anything they want.  If your
> sales-dweeb-conversation person rolls-over for this MS sales-dweeb, then
> it's your companies fault.
> And remember, it's a two-way street.  The sales-dweeb can say anything he
> wants to you, but you can call also - including telling him to stick the
> .NET where the sun don't shine.
> It's like what Dr. Phil says - you can't be taken advatage of unless you
> let it happen.  The sales-dweebs push, and you are supposed to push back
> if it is not in your companies best interest.
> Hope this helps.

Remember also that M$ is used to being the only person you
can deal with. They are very, very unhappy that now you have
alternatives that run the same products (e.g., Oracle, DB2
on linux) and have a well-known, preferred desktop (e.g., OS/X).
This makes their sales reps exciteable and prone to playing
hardball as they watch their sales bonuses go up in smoke.
The recent spate of high-profile licensing clashes hasn't
helped any, so they are in an even fouler mood.

If you want them to shut up and play nice(r) then I'd strongly
suggest having a few prominent G3's around on desktops and at
least one server (say file + print running Samba) with an RH
or SuSE sitcker on it next to the NT boxes on your rack. See
if that helps them understand your point of view...

--
Steven Lembark   2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing   Chicago, IL 60647
+1 800 762 1582
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Author: Steven Lembark
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Yechiel Adar]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate 
paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your 
business to??
 
Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas Jeff 

  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 
  AM
  Subject: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
  This came to our DBA team 
  today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not a 
  business guy, just a plain old Apps 
  DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it common practice 
  by MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches to 
"web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason why we 
might be interested specifically in dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ 
earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing certain 
services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management that one of their 
criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a MS customer is 
the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the vendor  bought in to 
the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our global 
enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone, but 
it's not something we are going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support investigating 
SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
INVESTIGATING. 

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Thomas,
 
Don't 
get mad - remember, it's not personal, it's just "the 
bidness".
 
Remember, sales-dweebs can say anything they want.  If your 
sales-dweeb-conversation person rolls-over for this MS sales-dweeb, then it's 
your companies fault.
 
And 
remember, it's a two-way street.  The sales-dweeb can say anything he wants 
to you, but you can call also - including telling him to stick the .NET where 
the sun don't shine.
 
It's 
like what Dr. Phil says - you can't be taken advatage of unless you let it 
happen.  The sales-dweebs push, and you are supposed to push back if it is 
not in your companies best interest.
 
Hope 
this helps.
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Thomas Jeff 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:13 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: OT: 
  MIcrosoft Blackmail
  This came to our DBA team 
  today.    I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not a 
  business guy, just a plain old Apps 
  DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it common practice 
  by MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches to 
"web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason why we 
might be interested specifically in dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ 
earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing certain 
services], etc.  Microsoft has told our management that one of their 
criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a MS customer is 
the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the vendor  bought in to 
the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our global 
enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone, but 
it's not something we are going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support investigating 
SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
INVESTIGATING.