RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Pete Sharman]

I think he's skipping that one to go direct to "Do you really need
Oracle?"   :)

Pete

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA


-Original Message-
Denny Koovakattu
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


  They will think differently after Mogens comes out with the "Do you
really
need 10g" presentation ;)

-- 
Denny Koovakattu 


Quoting Nuno Souto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> The interesting fact of course is that the beta program
> of 10g was "announced" in newsgroups AFTER it had closed
> for all intents and purposes to the general public...
> 
> And quite frankly, Oracle could do a LOT WORSE than let
> "customers" like Mogens definitely join.  Just a feeling,
> mind you.  If Oracle thinks the "good old days" of in-house
> elites are back, they're dead wrong.
> 
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - Original Message - 
> 
> > Generally, the announcements are made at events like OracleWorld,
> > through OTN and so forth that the beta program is open.  Depending
on
> > the release, the program may not even get announced unless it's big
> > enough.  IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small
number
> > of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the
10g
> > program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't
had
> > my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September?  Of
> > course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to
join
> > the beta program for the database because of the type of customer
they
> > are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for
example,
> > may fall into that category.  Customers like Mogens definitely
don't.
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Nuno Souto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 



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Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Denny Koovakattu]

  They will think differently after Mogens comes out with the "Do you really
need 10g" presentation ;)

-- 
Denny Koovakattu 


Quoting Nuno Souto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> The interesting fact of course is that the beta program
> of 10g was "announced" in newsgroups AFTER it had closed
> for all intents and purposes to the general public...
> 
> And quite frankly, Oracle could do a LOT WORSE than let
> "customers" like Mogens definitely join.  Just a feeling,
> mind you.  If Oracle thinks the "good old days" of in-house
> elites are back, they're dead wrong.
> 
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - Original Message - 
> 
> > Generally, the announcements are made at events like OracleWorld,
> > through OTN and so forth that the beta program is open.  Depending on
> > the release, the program may not even get announced unless it's big
> > enough.  IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small number
> > of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the 10g
> > program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't had
> > my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September?  Of
> > course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to join
> > the beta program for the database because of the type of customer they
> > are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for example,
> > may fall into that category.  Customers like Mogens definitely don't.
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Nuno Souto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 



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RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Pete Sharman]

 gain advantage
> over the rest of customers. Anyway, Christmas is almost here. When do
> the rest us, not so important customers, get to see 10g? Speaking of
> Mogens, I believe that he has 10g. 
> Whatever the intention was, it was a marketing blunder. As a customer,
> I'm
> less then happy with the impossibility of getting to know 10g despite
> the
> multitude of materials posted about it. I even tried to get 10g CDs
from
> my oracle sales rep. but the guy conveniently forgets everything about
> it
> whenever he talks to me. Who knows, may be after reading this the
> marketing
> guys decide to put out a limited production version? Prolonging the
hype
> would not serve any useful purpose, except may  be, to further annoy
> your
> customers.
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/09/2003 12:14:25 PM, Pete Sharman wrote:
> > Generally, the announcements are made at events like OracleWorld,
> > through OTN and so forth that the beta program is open.  Depending
on
> > the release, the program may not even get announced unless it's big
> > enough.  IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small
> number
> > of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the
> 10g
> > program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't
had
> > my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September?  Of
> > course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to
> join
> > the beta program for the database because of the type of customer
they
> > are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for
example,
> > may fall into that category.  Customers like Mogens definitely
don't.
> > :-)
> >  
> > Pete
> >  
> > "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> > "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
> > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> > -Original Message-
> > Denny Koovakattu
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:14 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  
> > 
> > And how do you join one ?
> > 
> > Denny
> > 
> > Pete Sharman wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> > interested, Mladen!
> >  
> > Ducks and runs.  :)
> >  
> > Pete
> >  
> > "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> >  
> > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> >  
> > "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
> >  
> > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> >  
> > -Original Message-
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  
> > Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a
> database
> > with 
> > less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close
with
> > 10g.
> > As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the
marketing
> > hype 
> > being created with oracle not making an early version available. I
> don't
> > plan
> > on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales
guy
> > tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable
> sign
> > used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify
that
> > they 
> > still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my
> fill
> > of
> > white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.
> >  
> > On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >   
> > .. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could
set,
> > giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a
part
> > 
> > of
> >   
> > the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
> > wresting that control.
> >  
> > Regards
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > Mladen Gogala
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients
> > 
> > of list ORACLE-L  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> >   
> > ading.com>   cc:
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > Sent by: Subject: Re:
> > 
> > dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
> >   
> > 

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Nuno Souto]

Isn't that what Oracle has always done?
I've got a funny feeling it's gonna start 
biting back really hard...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
> guys decide to put out a limited production version? Prolonging the hype
> would not serve any useful purpose, except may  be, to further annoy your
> customers.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Nuno Souto
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Nuno Souto]

Amen...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 

> I really do not intend to go with the flow. Fortunately, there are other databases
> and oracle's behavior is motivating me to start giving them serious considerations.

-- 
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-- 
Author: Nuno Souto
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Nuno Souto]

The interesting fact of course is that the beta program
of 10g was "announced" in newsgroups AFTER it had closed
for all intents and purposes to the general public...

And quite frankly, Oracle could do a LOT WORSE than let
"customers" like Mogens definitely join.  Just a feeling,
mind you.  If Oracle thinks the "good old days" of in-house
elites are back, they're dead wrong.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 

> Generally, the announcements are made at events like OracleWorld,
> through OTN and so forth that the beta program is open.  Depending on
> the release, the program may not even get announced unless it's big
> enough.  IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small number
> of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the 10g
> program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't had
> my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September?  Of
> course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to join
> the beta program for the database because of the type of customer they
> are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for example,
> may fall into that category.  Customers like Mogens definitely don't.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Nuno Souto
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

 IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small
> number
> > of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the
> 10g
> > program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't had
> > my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September?  Of
> > course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to
> join
> > the beta program for the database because of the type of customer they
> > are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for example,
> > may fall into that category.  Customers like Mogens definitely don't.
> > :-)
> >  
> > Pete
> >  
> > "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> > "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
> > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> > -Original Message-
> > Denny Koovakattu
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:14 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  
> > 
> > And how do you join one ?
> > 
> > Denny
> > 
> > Pete Sharman wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> > interested, Mladen!
> >  
> > Ducks and runs.  :)
> >  
> > Pete
> >  
> > "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> >  
> > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> >  
> > "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
> >  
> > Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> >  
> > -Original Message-
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >  
> > Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a
> database
> > with 
> > less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with
> > 10g.
> > As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing
> > hype 
> > being created with oracle not making an early version available. I
> don't
> > plan
> > on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
> > tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable
> sign
> > used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that
> > they 
> > still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my
> fill
> > of
> > white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.
> >  
> > On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >   
> > .. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
> > giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part
> > 
> > of
> >   
> > the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
> > wresting that control.
> >  
> > Regards
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > Mladen Gogala
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients
> > 
> > of list ORACLE-L  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> >   
> > ading.com>   cc:
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > Sent by: Subject: Re:
> > 
> > dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
> >   
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > ity.com
> > 
> >  
> >   
> >  
> >   
> >  
> >   
> > 12/08/2003
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > 01:29 PM
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > Please respond
> > 
> >  
> >   
> > to ORACLE-L
> > 
> >  
> >   
> >  
> >   
> >  
> >   
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6
> > 
> > with
> >   
> > something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1
> > 
> > (no
> >   
> > stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve
> > Feuerstein
> > and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in
> > 
> > the
> >   
> > database
> > development.

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Carel-Jan Engel]

Good heavens.
Carel-Jan
At 14:59 9-12-03 -0800, you wrote:
From
what I understand, hes even bigger than you! 
J

 

Pete

 

"Controlling
developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA
Handbook

"Oh no, it's
not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae,
long-term Oracle DBA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Carel-Jan Engel
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and
dc_histogram_defs

 

Pete,
Is Mladen bigger than you???
Carel-Jan
At 16:44 8-12-03 -0800, you wrote:
Well, I think part of the problem is a perception (how valid it is 
I
don't think I'm in a position to say, but the perception certainly
exists) that allowing access to the code too early simply provides
ammunition for competitors to be far more prepared than we'd like
them
to be.  :)
And no apologies needed.  Particularly from someone that's bigger
than
me!  :)
Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On 2003.12.08 17:24, Pete Sharman wrote:
> Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> interested, Mladen!
I missed the opportunity because I was amid changing jobs.  I tried
to
lay my hands
on the software several times since then, to no avail.
> 
> Ducks and runs.  :)
No need, Pete. I've always appreciated your advice and expertize.
Your
posts have been 
very useful to me on more then one occasion. I am the one to
apologize
for blowing off 
some steam, but I must confess,  that I  don't understand such
secrecy,
especially not 
after it has already been announced. 

-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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subscribing).

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Pete Sharman]

From what I
understand, he’s even bigger than you!  J

 



Pete

 

"Controlling developers is like herding
cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carel-Jan
Engel
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003
9:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: dc_used_extents
,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

 

Pete,

Is Mladen bigger than you???

Carel-Jan

At 16:44 8-12-03 -0800, you wrote:



Well, I think part of the problem is a perception (how
valid it is I
don't think I'm in a position to say, but the perception certainly
exists) that allowing access to the code too early simply provides
ammunition for competitors to be far more prepared than we'd like them
to be.  :)

And no apologies needed.  Particularly from someone that's bigger than
me!  :)

Pete

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA


-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


On 2003.12.08 17:24, Pete Sharman wrote:
> Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> interested, Mladen!

I missed the opportunity because I was amid changing jobs.  I tried to
lay my hands
on the software several times since then, to no avail.

> 
> Ducks and runs.  :)

No need, Pete. I've always appreciated your advice and expertize. Your
posts have been 
very useful to me on more then one occasion. I am the one to apologize
for blowing off 
some steam, but I must confess,  that I  don't understand such
secrecy,
especially not 
after it has already been announced. 



-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Carel-Jan Engel]

Pete,
Is Mladen bigger than you???
Carel-Jan
At 16:44 8-12-03 -0800, you wrote:
Well, I think part of the problem
is a perception (how valid it is I
don't think I'm in a position to say, but the perception certainly
exists) that allowing access to the code too early simply provides
ammunition for competitors to be far more prepared than we'd like
them
to be.  :)
And no apologies needed.  Particularly from someone that's bigger
than
me!  :)
Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On 2003.12.08 17:24, Pete Sharman wrote:
> Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> interested, Mladen!
I missed the opportunity because I was amid changing jobs.  I tried
to
lay my hands
on the software several times since then, to no avail.
> 
> Ducks and runs.  :)
No need, Pete. I've always appreciated your advice and expertize.
Your
posts have been 
very useful to me on more then one occasion. I am the one to
apologize
for blowing off 
some steam, but I must confess,  that I  don't understand such
secrecy,
especially not 
after it has already been announced. 

-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
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RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Pete Sharman]

t; -Original Message-
> Mladen Gogala
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  
> Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a
database
> with 
> less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with
> 10g.
> As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing
> hype 
> being created with oracle not making an early version available. I
don't
> plan
> on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
> tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable
sign
> used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that
> they 
> still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my
fill
> of
> white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.
>  
> On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   
> .. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
> giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part
> 
> of
>   
> the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
> wresting that control.
>  
> Regards
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
>   
> Mladen Gogala
> 
>  
>   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients
> 
> of list ORACLE-L  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>   
> ading.com>   cc:
> 
>  
>   
> Sent by: Subject: Re:
> 
> dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
>   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
>   
> ity.com
> 
>  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>   
> 12/08/2003
> 
>  
>   
> 01:29 PM
> 
>  
>   
> Please respond
> 
>  
>   
> to ORACLE-L
> 
>  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>  
>  
> Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6
> 
> with
>   
> something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1
> 
> (no
>   
> stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve
> Feuerstein
> and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in
> 
> the
>   
> database
> development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented.
> 
> The
>   
> entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the
> 
> table
>   
> called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the
> compatibility
> reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who
> 
> are
>   
> still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In
> 
> Oracle
>   
> 5.1.22,
> dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they
> 
> were
>   
> called
> "tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with
> 
> "USER_OBJECTS").
>   
> The term
> "CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with
> 
> 100k
>   
> floppies,
> computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the
> 
> first
>   
> implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast
> forward to the
> present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4.  Do "Select * from tab" and "select *
> 
> from
>   
> cat".
> You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms
> 
> 2.0 and
>   
> 2.3,
> the world is not over yet.
>  
> On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote:
> 
> Hi:
>  
> I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun
>   
> Solaris) and
>   
> found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher
>   
> than
>   
> 2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents
>   
> ,dc_free_extents
>   
> and
> 
> dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below).  Is this
> something I need to pay attention in terms of doing performance
> optimization? If yes, what are the things (regarding "Dictionary
>   
> Cache")
>   
> that I should look in order to improve the performance?
>  
> TIA.
>  
> Guang
>  
> ps, here are some "dc_" stats from my reports and a copy of 

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

There was an announcement on the OTN, but nobody replied to email. 
When reading this list, I get impression that quite a few people 
were able to get the software so far and that the shroud of secrecy
over the whole thing is maintained in order for them to gain advantage
over the rest of customers. Anyway, Christmas is almost here. When do
the rest us, not so important customers, get to see 10g? Speaking of
Mogens, I believe that he has 10g. 
Whatever the intention was, it was a marketing blunder. As a customer, I'm
less then happy with the impossibility of getting to know 10g despite the
multitude of materials posted about it. I even tried to get 10g CDs from
my oracle sales rep. but the guy conveniently forgets everything about it
whenever he talks to me. Who knows, may be after reading this the marketing
guys decide to put out a limited production version? Prolonging the hype
would not serve any useful purpose, except may  be, to further annoy your
customers.



On 12/09/2003 12:14:25 PM, Pete Sharman wrote:
> Generally, the announcements are made at events like OracleWorld,
> through OTN and so forth that the beta program is open.  Depending on
> the release, the program may not even get announced unless it's big
> enough.  IIRC, the beta program for 9.2 was open to only a small number
> of customers and wasn't announced to the world at large, whereas the 10g
> program was announced (again IIRC - it's 4 am for me and I haven't had
> my first coffee yet!) at OracleWorld in San Fran in September?  Of
> course, there are some companies that are almost always invited to join
> the beta program for the database because of the type of customer they
> are and the type of work they do - customers like Amazon, for example,
> may fall into that category.  Customers like Mogens definitely don't.
> :-)
>  
> Pete
>  
> "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
> Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
> "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
> Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
> -Original Message-
> Denny Koovakattu
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  
> 
> And how do you join one ?
> 
> Denny
> 
> Pete Sharman wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> interested, Mladen!
>  
> Ducks and runs.  :)
>  
> Pete
>  
> "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
>  
> Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
>  
> "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
>  
> Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
>  
> -Original Message-
> Mladen Gogala
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  
> Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database
> with 
> less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with
> 10g.
> As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing
> hype 
> being created with oracle not making an early version available. I don't
> plan
> on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
> tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable sign
> used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that
> they 
> still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my fill
> of
> white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.
>  
> On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   
> .. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
> giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part
> 
> of
>   
> the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
> wresting that control.
>  
> Regards
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
>   
>         Mladen Gogala
> 
>  
>   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients
> 
> of list ORACLE-L  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>   
> ading.com>   cc:
> 
>  
>   
> Sent by: Subject: Re:
> 
> dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
>   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
>   
> ity.com
> 
>  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>   
> 12/08/2003
> 
>  
>   
> 01:29 PM
> 
>  
>   
> Please respond
> 
>  
>   
> to ORACLE-L
> 
>  
>   
>  
&

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Stephen.Lee]

No no. That's the rings of Saturn made of lost airline luggage, discarded
accordions, and now secrets.  I think microchannel bus is up there.

> -Original Message-
> Graveyard is full of companies whose
> secrets are safe.
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Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

That perception came into being quite recently. I believe that Oracle Corp.
should change that perception and they need our help to do so. As I've said 
before,  if nobody was using oracle, their secrets would be perfectly safe,
just as Ingres or dBase IV secrets are. Graveyard is full of companies whose
secrets are safe.

On 12/09/2003 11:34:25 AM, "Bellow, Bambi" wrote:
> 8< snip >8
> Well, I think part of the problem is a perception (how valid it is I
> don't think I'm in a position to say, but the perception certainly
> exists) that allowing access to the code too early simply provides
> ammunition for competitors to be far more prepared than we'd like them
> to be.  :)
> 8< pins >8
> 
> And hackers...  
> 
> Oh, wait, never mind.  Oracle is UNBREAKABLE!
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Bellow, Bambi
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



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RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Bellow, Bambi]

8< snip >8
Well, I think part of the problem is a perception (how valid it is I
don't think I'm in a position to say, but the perception certainly
exists) that allowing access to the code too early simply provides
ammunition for competitors to be far more prepared than we'd like them
to be.  :)
8< pins >8

And hackers...  

Oh, wait, never mind.  Oracle is UNBREAKABLE!
-- 
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

I believe that we should start using Postgres or MySQL, not to infringe on
oracle secrets. After all, those secrets must be mighty precious when they're
protecting them from their own customers. I believe that the whole thing is about
giving consultants time to master oracle 10 before releasing it, and then start
exerting pressure to migrate, so the chosen few will skim some dough. 
This is a radical departure from oracle behavior until now, where the software 
was available for testing and learning long before it was suitable for production.
This relative openmindedness of the Oracle Corp. was one of the reasons that Oracle
has become so popular.  Some bright marketing talent decided it should change and 
I really do not intend to go with the flow. Fortunately, there are other databases
and oracle's behavior is motivating me to start giving them serious considerations.
If nobody was using oracle, their secrets would be perfectly safe.

On 12/09/2003 08:34:27 AM, "Thater, William" wrote:
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> 
> And how do you join one ?
> 
> Denny
> [Shrek] 
> you have to be specially honored by the Great and Powerful Larry.;-)  at
> least i think so because every time i tried to join, they never even
> replied.;-)
>  
> 
> --
> Bill "Shrek" Thater ORACLE DBA  
> "I'm going to work my ticket if I can..." -- Gilwell song
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
> 
> Knowing others is Wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment. - LaoTzu
>  
> 
> 

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



Note:
This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, 
proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is 
waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please 
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
of it and notify the sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, 
distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended 
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to 
monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where 
the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the 
views of any such entity.

-- 
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-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Thater, William]

 

  -Original Message-From: Denny Koovakattu 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:14 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
  dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs
  And how do you join one ?Denny[Shrek] 
  you 
  have to be specially honored by the Great and Powerful Larry.;-)  at 
  least i think so because every time i tried to join, they never even 
  replied.;-)
   --
  Bill 
  "Shrek" Thater ORACLE 
  DBA  
  "I'm 
  going to work my ticket if I can..." -- Gilwell song
      
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  Knowing others is Wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment. - 
  LaoTzu
   

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Jamadagni, Rajendra]

and what they don't tell you that there are 3000 undocumented parameters 
because they are undocumented. As one finds all bugs (or should I say easter 
eggs) in our code, we will tell them one by one to you.
 
Raj
 
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot 
com All Views expressed in this email 
are strictly personal. QOTD: Any clod 
can have facts, having an opinion is an art ! 

  -Original Message-From: Tanel Poder 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 
  4:14 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and 
dc_histogram_defs
  10g has about 30 "basic" parameters such are 
  db_name and sga_target, a real bunch of "advanced" parameters and the 
  rest are undocumented parameters.
   
  So, the marketing people can already say you got 
  less than 100 tunable params..
   
  Tanel.
   **This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you.**4

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Denny Koovakattu]

And how do you join one ?

Denny

Pete Sharman wrote:

  Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
interested, Mladen!

Ducks and runs.  :)

Pete

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database
with 
less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with
10g.
As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing
hype 
being created with oracle not making an early version available. I don't
plan
on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable sign
used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that
they 
still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my fill
of
white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.

On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
.. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part

  
  of
  
  
the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
wresting that control.

Regards






  
  
  
  
Mladen Gogala

  
  
  
  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients

  
  of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
  
  
ading.com>   cc:

  
  
  
  
    Sent by: Subject: Re:

  
  dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
  
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  
  
  
  
ity.com

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
12/08/2003

  
  
  
  
01:29 PM

  
  
  
  
Please respond

  
  
  
  
to ORACLE-L

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  



Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6

  
  with
  
  
something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1

  
  (no
  
  
stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve
Feuerstein
and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in

  
  the
  
  
database
development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented.

  
  The
  
  
entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the

  
  table
  
  
called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the
compatibility
reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who

  
  are
  
  
still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In

  
  Oracle
  
  
5.1.22,
dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they

  
  were
  
  
called
"tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with

  
  "USER_OBJECTS").
  
  
The term
"CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with

  
  100k
  
  
floppies,
computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the

  
  first
  
  
implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast
forward to the
present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4.  Do "Select * from tab" and "select *

  
  from
  
  
cat".
You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms

  
  2.0 and
  
  
2.3,
the world is not over yet.

On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote:


  Hi:

I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun
  

  
  Solaris) and
  
  

  found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher
  

  
  than
  
  

  2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents
  

  
  ,dc_free_extents
  
  
and


  dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below).  Is this
something I need to pay attention in terms of doing performance
optimization? If yes, what are the things (regarding "Dictionary
  

  
  Cache")
  
  

  that I should look in order to improve the performance?

TIA.

Guang

ps, here are some "dc_" stats from my reports and a copy of actual
  

  
  report
  
  

  (partial):
  

  
  
  

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Pete Sharman]

Well, I think part of the problem is a perception (how valid it is I
don't think I'm in a position to say, but the perception certainly
exists) that allowing access to the code too early simply provides
ammunition for competitors to be far more prepared than we'd like them
to be.  :)

And no apologies needed.  Particularly from someone that's bigger than
me!  :)

Pete

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA


-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


On 2003.12.08 17:24, Pete Sharman wrote:
> Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> interested, Mladen!

I missed the opportunity because I was amid changing jobs.  I tried to
lay my hands
on the software several times since then, to no avail.

> 
> Ducks and runs.  :)

No need, Pete. I've always appreciated your advice and expertize. Your
posts have been 
very useful to me on more then one occasion. I am the one to apologize
for blowing off 
some steam, but I must confess,  that I  don't understand such secrecy,
especially not 
after it has already been announced. 



-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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-- 
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-- 
Author: Pete Sharman
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Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

On 2003.12.08 17:24, Pete Sharman wrote:
> Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
> interested, Mladen!

I missed the opportunity because I was amid changing jobs.  I tried to lay my hands
on the software several times since then, to no avail.

> 
> Ducks and runs.  :)

No need, Pete. I've always appreciated your advice and expertize. Your posts have been 
very useful to me on more then one occasion. I am the one to apologize for blowing off 
some steam, but I must confess,  that I  don't understand such secrecy, especially not 
after it has already been announced. 



-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Carel-Jan Engel]

At 11:59 8-12-03 -0800, you wrote:
Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database with
less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with 10g.
Aaargh, that's why LOG_ARCHIVE_DEST_n gets so many options that 
documentation of one parameter takes 56 pages!
The more options, the lesser parameters! or is it the other way around?

Carel-Jan

--
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--
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 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Pete Sharman]

Well, you could have joined the beta program if you were THAT
interested, Mladen!

Ducks and runs.  :)

Pete

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database
with 
less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with
10g.
As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing
hype 
being created with oracle not making an early version available. I don't
plan
on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable sign
used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that
they 
still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my fill
of
white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.

On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> .. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
> giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part
of
> the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
> wresting that control.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> Mladen Gogala

> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients
of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
>     ading.com>       cc:

> Sent by: Subject: Re:
dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> ity.com

>

>

> 12/08/2003

> 01:29 PM

> Please respond

> to ORACLE-L

>

>

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6
with
> something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1
(no
> stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve
> Feuerstein
> and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in
the
> database
> development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented.
The
> entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the
table
> called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the
> compatibility
> reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who
are
> still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In
Oracle
> 5.1.22,
> dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they
were
> called
> "tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with
"USER_OBJECTS").
> The term
> "CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with
100k
> floppies,
> computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the
first
> implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast
> forward to the
> present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4.  Do "Select * from tab" and "select *
from
> cat".
> You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms
2.0 and
> 2.3,
> the world is not over yet.
> 
> On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote:
> > Hi:
> >
> > I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun
Solaris) and
> > found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher
than
> > 2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents
,dc_free_extents
> and
> > dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below).  Is this
> > something I need to pay attention in terms of doing performance
> > optimization? If yes, what are the things (regarding "Dictionary
Cache")
> > that I should look in order to improve the performance?
> >
> > TIA.
> >
> > Guang
> >
> > ps, here are some "dc_" stats from my reports and a copy of actual
report
> > (partial):
> >
> > --
> > bash-2.03$ grep "dc_used_extents" sp_*
> > sp_681_682.lst:dc_used_extents 136   83.10
> > 136  3,840  100
> > sp_682_683.lst:dc_used_extents 124   81.50
> > 124  3,918   99
> > sp_683_684.lst:dc_used_extents  34   58.80
> > 34  3,924  100
> > sp_684_685.lst:dc_used_extents   0  

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Jared . Still]

a) not really, in fact, far less than usual.  going to be *loonnngg* day.  Just needed a diversion.

b) I'm not telling








"Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12/08/2003 01:04 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

        
        To:        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs


somebody has free time on his hands.  Jared, what's your bosses email addy?
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 3:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs


Though there has been an average increase in the total number of init parameter of 83% from 
versions 7.3.4 - 9.2.0.4, the percentage of tunable/undocumented parameters has gone from 62%/38% 
in 7.3.4, to 31%/69% in 9.2.0.4. 

version      undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable 
- 
7.3.4           97      158    255      38        62     
8.1.7.4        300      204    504      60        40 
9.2.0.4        587      258    845      69        31 

To achieve the stated goal of 100 tunable parameters in 10g, with an expected 
growth rate of 30% ( a guesstimate ) or so in the total number  of parameters, 10g 
should look somthing like this: 

version      undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable 
- 
10.0.0         999      100   1099      91         9 


;) 

Jared 







Mladen Gogala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 12/08/2003 11:59 AM 
 Please respond to ORACLE-L 
        
        To:        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
        cc:         
        Subject:        Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs



Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database with 
less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with 10g.
As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing hype 
being created with oracle not making an early version available. I don't plan
on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable sign
used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that they 
still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my fill of
white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Tanel Poder]

10g has about 30 "basic" parameters such are 
db_name and sga_target, a real bunch of "advanced" parameters and the rest 
are undocumented parameters.
 
So, the marketing people can already say you got 
less than 100 tunable params..
 
Tanel.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:59 
  PM
  Subject: Re: dc_used_extents 
  ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs
  Though there has been an 
  average increase in the total number of init parameter of 83% from 
  versions 7.3.4 - 9.2.0.4, the 
  percentage of tunable/undocumented parameters has gone from 62%/38% 
  in 7.3.4, to 31%/69% in 9.2.0.4. 
  version      undoc 
   tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable - 
  7.3.4           97 
       158    255      38     
     62     8.1.7.4 
         300      204    504   
     60        40 9.2.0.4        587      258   
   845      69        31 
  To achieve the stated goal of 100 tunable 
  parameters in 10g, with an expected growth rate of 30% ( a guesstimate ) or so in the total number  of 
  parameters, 10g should look somthing 
  like this: version     
   undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable 
  - 
  10.0.0         999   
     100   1099      91       
    9 ;) 
  Jared 
  


  
  Mladen Gogala 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 12/08/2003 11:59 AM 
 Please respond to ORACLE-L 
                  To:     
   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>         cc:       
        
  Subject:        Re: dc_used_extents 
,dc_free_extents and 
  dc_histogram_defsLarry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is 
  to produce a database with less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he 
  came rather close with 10g.As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather 
  disappointed with the marketing hype being created with oracle not making 
  an early version available. I don't planon migrating to 10g until I learn 
  it well and if some oracle sales guytries to exert pressure on me to 
  migrate, he will get a very stable signused by English archers after the 
  battle at Agincourt to signify that they still have all the fingers needed 
  to operate a longbow. I've had my fill ofwhite papers and articles and now 
  I want to see the 
software.

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Orr, Steve]

Title: Message



So I 
believe your unstated point is that the only thing that needs to be reduced is 
Mr. E's marketing hype. ;-)
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 1:59 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
  dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and 
  dc_histogram_defsThough 
  there has been an average increase in the total number of init parameter of 
  83% from versions 7.3.4 - 9.2.0.4, the 
  percentage of tunable/undocumented parameters has gone from 62%/38% 
  in 7.3.4, to 31%/69% in 9.2.0.4. 
  version      undoc 
   tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable - 
  7.3.4           97 
       158    255      38     
     62     8.1.7.4 
         300      204    504   
     60        40 9.2.0.4        587      258   
   845      69        31 
  To achieve the stated goal of 100 tunable 
  parameters in 10g, with an expected growth rate of 30% ( a guesstimate ) or so in the total number  of 
  parameters, 10g should look somthing 
  like this: version     
   undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable 
  - 
  10.0.0         999   
     100   1099      91       
    9 ;) 
  Jared 
  


  
  Mladen Gogala 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 12/08/2003 11:59 AM 
 Please respond to ORACLE-L 
                  To:     
   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>         cc:       
        
  Subject:        Re: dc_used_extents 
,dc_free_extents and 
  dc_histogram_defsLarry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is 
  to produce a database with less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he 
  came rather close with 10g.As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather 
  disappointed with the marketing hype being created with oracle not making 
  an early version available. I don't planon migrating to 10g until I learn 
  it well and if some oracle sales guytries to exert pressure on me to 
  migrate, he will get a very stable signused by English archers after the 
  battle at Agincourt to signify that they still have all the fingers needed 
  to operate a longbow. I've had my fill ofwhite papers and articles and now 
  I want to see the 
software.

RE: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

somebody has free time on his hands.  Jared, what's your bosses 
email addy?
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 
  3:59 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and 
  dc_histogram_defsThough 
  there has been an average increase in the total number of init parameter of 
  83% from versions 7.3.4 - 9.2.0.4, the 
  percentage of tunable/undocumented parameters has gone from 62%/38% 
  in 7.3.4, to 31%/69% in 9.2.0.4. 
  version      undoc 
   tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable - 
  7.3.4           97 
       158    255      38     
     62     8.1.7.4 
         300      204    504   
     60        40 9.2.0.4        587      258   
   845      69        31 
  To achieve the stated goal of 100 tunable 
  parameters in 10g, with an expected growth rate of 30% ( a guesstimate ) or so in the total number  of 
  parameters, 10g should look somthing 
  like this: version     
   undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable 
  - 
  10.0.0         999   
     100   1099      91       
    9 ;) 
  Jared 
  


  
  Mladen Gogala 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 12/08/2003 11:59 AM 
 Please respond to ORACLE-L 
                  To:     
   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>         cc:       
        
  Subject:        Re: dc_used_extents 
,dc_free_extents and 
  dc_histogram_defsLarry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is 
  to produce a database with less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he 
  came rather close with 10g.As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather 
  disappointed with the marketing hype being created with oracle not making 
  an early version available. I don't planon migrating to 10g until I learn 
  it well and if some oracle sales guytries to exert pressure on me to 
  migrate, he will get a very stable signused by English archers after the 
  battle at Agincourt to signify that they still have all the fingers needed 
  to operate a longbow. I've had my fill ofwhite papers and articles and now 
  I want to see the 
software.

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Jared . Still]

Though there has been an average increase in the total number of init parameter of 83% from 
versions 7.3.4 - 9.2.0.4, the percentage of tunable/undocumented parameters has gone from 62%/38%
in 7.3.4, to 31%/69% in 9.2.0.4.

version      undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable
-
7.3.4           97      158    255      38        62    
8.1.7.4        300      204    504      60        40
9.2.0.4        587      258    845      69        31

To achieve the stated goal of 100 tunable parameters in 10g, with an expected
growth rate of 30% ( a guesstimate ) or so in the total number  of parameters, 10g
should look somthing like this:

version      undoc  tunable  total  %undoc  %tunable
-
10.0.0         999      100   1099      91         9


;)

Jared








Mladen Gogala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12/08/2003 11:59 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

        
        To:        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:        
        Subject:        Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs


Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database with 
less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with 10g.
As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing hype 
being created with oracle not making an early version available. I don't plan
on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable sign
used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that they 
still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my fill of
white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

Larry Ellison has publicly stated that his goal is to produce a database with 
less then 100 tunable parameters. Allegedly, he came rather close with 10g.
As far as 10g is concerned, I'm rather disappointed with the marketing hype 
being created with oracle not making an early version available. I don't plan
on migrating to 10g until I learn it well and if some oracle sales guy
tries to exert pressure on me to migrate, he will get a very stable sign
used by English archers after the battle at Agincourt to signify that they 
still have all the fingers needed to operate a longbow. I've had my fill of
white papers and articles and now I want to see the software.

On 12/08/2003 02:24:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> .. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
> giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part of
> the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
> wresting that control.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>   
> Mladen Gogala
>   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: Multiple recipients of list 
> ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
> ading.com>   cc: 
>           
>         Sent by: Subject: Re: dc_used_extents 
> ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
> ity.com  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>   
> 12/08/2003   
>   
> 01:29 PM 
>   
> Please respond   
>   
> to ORACLE-L  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6 with
> something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1 (no
> stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve
> Feuerstein
> and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in the
> database
> development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented. The
> entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the table
> called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the
> compatibility
> reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who are
> still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In Oracle
> 5.1.22,
> dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they were
> called
> "tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with "USER_OBJECTS").
> The term
> "CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with 100k
> floppies,
> computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the first
> implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast
> forward to the
> present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4.  Do "Select * from tab" and "select * from
> cat".
> You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms 2.0 and
> 2.3,
> the world is not over yet.
> 
> On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote:
> > Hi:
> >
> > I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun Solaris) and
> > found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher than
> > 2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents
> and
> > dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below).  Is this
>

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Rajesh . Rao]

.. And there used to be all these dc_   parameters that one could set,
giving the dba control over the dictionary cache, which was not a part of
the shared pool. And then came Oracle V7, with the shared_pool_size,
wresting that control.

Regards




   

Mladen Gogala  

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ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
ading.com>   cc:   

Sent by: Subject: Re: dc_used_extents 
,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   
ity.com

   

   

12/08/2003 

01:29 PM   

Please respond 

to ORACLE-L

   

   





Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6 with
something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1 (no
stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve
Feuerstein
and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in the
database
development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented. The
entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the table
called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the
compatibility
reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who are
still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In Oracle
5.1.22,
dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they were
called
"tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with "USER_OBJECTS").
The term
"CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with 100k
floppies,
computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the first
implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast
forward to the
present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4.  Do "Select * from tab" and "select * from
cat".
You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms 2.0 and
2.3,
the world is not over yet.

On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun Solaris) and
> found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher than
> 2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents
and
> dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below).  Is this
> something I need to pay attention in terms of doing performance
> optimization? If yes, what are the things (regarding "Dictionary Cache")
> that I should look in order to improve the performance?
>
> TIA.
>
> Guang
>
> ps, here are some "dc_" stats from my reports and a copy of actual report
> (partial):
>
> --
> bash-2.03$ grep "dc_used_extents" sp_*
> sp_681_682.lst:dc_used_extents 136   83.10
> 136  3,840  100
> sp_682_683.lst:dc_used_extents 124   81.50
> 124  3,918   99
> sp_683_684.lst:dc_used_extents  34   58.80
> 34  3,924  100
> sp_684_685.lst:dc_used_extents   0   0
> 0  3,924  100
> sp_685_686.lst:dc_used_extents  37   64.90
> 37  3,935   99
> sp_686_687.lst:dc_used_extents  12  100.00
> 12  3,947  100
> sp_687_688.lst:dc_used_extents  18  100.00
> 18  3,965  100
> sp_688_689.lst:dc_used_extents  26

Re: dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and dc_histogram_defs

[Mladen Gogala]

Well, once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was Oracle V6 with
something called "TPO", which was essentially row locking + PL/SQL V1 (no
stored procedures). My guess is that Cary Millsap, Anjo Kolk, Steve Feuerstein 
and Howard  Rogers know a thing or two about the Jurassic period in the database 
development. BTW, that was also when buffer hit ratio was invented. The
entries that you see are remnants from oracle v6, together with the table 
called "V$ROWCACHE" and are both religiously maintained for the compatibility
reasons, because Oracle Corp. doesn't want to disappoint all those who are
still running V6. Even compatibility with V5 is still maintained. In Oracle 5.1.22,
dictionary views weren't called "user_tables" and "user_objects", they were called
"tab" (user_tables) and cat (from "CATALOG", replaced with "USER_OBJECTS"). The term
"CATALOG" was directory command on Apple IIe (6502, later Z80) with 100k floppies,
computer immensly popular at the time, and I believe that is why the first 
implementation of "user_objects" was called "catalog". Now, let's fast forward to the 
present time and Oracle 9.2.0.4.  Do "Select * from tab" and "select * from cat". 
You'll be surprised. For all those still running V5.1.22 with forms 2.0 and 2.3,
the world is not over yet.

On 12/08/2003 12:39:30 PM, Guang Mei wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I am reading some statspack reports from our 8173 DB (on Sun Solaris) and
> found some of "Dictionary Cache Stats" are pretty high (much higher than
> 2%). I notice that "Pct Get Miss" for dc_used_extents ,dc_free_extents and
> dc_histogram_defs are high (the second column data below).  Is this
> something I need to pay attention in terms of doing performance
> optimization? If yes, what are the things (regarding "Dictionary Cache")
> that I should look in order to improve the performance?
> 
> TIA.
> 
> Guang
> 
> ps, here are some "dc_" stats from my reports and a copy of actual report
> (partial):
> 
> --
> bash-2.03$ grep "dc_used_extents" sp_*
> sp_681_682.lst:dc_used_extents 136   83.10
> 136  3,840  100
> sp_682_683.lst:dc_used_extents 124   81.50
> 124  3,918   99
> sp_683_684.lst:dc_used_extents  34   58.80
> 34  3,924  100
> sp_684_685.lst:dc_used_extents   0   0
> 0  3,924  100
> sp_685_686.lst:dc_used_extents  37   64.90
> 37  3,935   99
> sp_686_687.lst:dc_used_extents  12  100.00
> 12  3,947  100
> sp_687_688.lst:dc_used_extents  18  100.00
> 18  3,965  100
> sp_688_689.lst:dc_used_extents  26  100.00
> 26  3,991  100
> sp_689_690.lst:dc_used_extents  14  100.00
> 14  4,005  100
> sp_690_691.lst:dc_used_extents  16  100.00
> 16  4,021  100
> sp_691_692.lst:dc_used_extents  29  100.00
> 29  4,050  100
> sp_692_693.lst:dc_used_extents   1  100.00
> 1  4,051   99
> sp_693_694.lst:dc_used_extents   1,118   51.20
> 1,118  4,077  100
> sp_694_695.lst:dc_used_extents   1,294   99.80
> 1,294  5,365  100
> sp_695_696.lst:dc_used_extents   2,031   13.20
> 2,031  3,870   72
> sp_696_697.lst:dc_used_extents   1,195   98.50
> 1,195  5,029   94
> sp_697_698.lst:dc_used_extents  44  100.00
> 44  5,073   94
> sp_698_699.lst:dc_used_extents   0   0
> 0  5,073   94
> sp_699_700.lst:dc_used_extents   1,3598.50
> 1,359568   33
> bash-2.03$ grep "dc_free_extents" sp_*
> sp_681_682.lst:dc_free_extents 395   34.4  166   0.0
> 362  4,071   82
> sp_682_683.lst:dc_free_extents 507   27.2  160   0.0
> 342  4,100   82
> sp_683_684.lst:dc_free_extents  75   32.0   20   0.0
> 64  4,104   82
> sp_684_685.lst:dc_free_extents  120.00
> 0  4,104   82
> sp_685_686.lst:dc_free_extents  95   35.8   24   0.0
> 83  4,114   83
> sp_686_687.lst:dc_free_extents  47   25.5   12   0.0
> 36  4,114   83
> sp_687_688.lst:dc_free_extents  64   23.4   18   0.0
> 52  4,111   82
> sp_688_689.lst:dc_free_extents  93   24.7   32   0.0
> 78  4,108   82
> sp_689_690.lst:dc_free_extents  54   25.9   14   0.0
> 42  4,108   82
> sp_690_691.lst:dc_free_extents  63   23.8   21   0.0
> 48  4,107   82
> sp_691_692.lst:dc_free_extents 109   25.7   42   0.0
> 85  4,106   82
> sp_692_693.lst:dc_free_extents  156.71   0.0
> 3  4,106   82
> sp_693_694.lst:dc_free_extents   1,624   24.0  596   0.0
> 1,574  3,924   79
> sp_694_695.lst:dc_free_extents   3,398   31.31,307   0.0
> 3,288  3,696   74
>